Date   

Alfred CURSON, died January 7, 2000 in Nassau County, NY #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Hi All:

I'm writing this in the hope that perhaps SKS might find something
familiar and/or be willing and able to help me find a death notice or
obit for this man. I found the following information while doing one
of my regular checks at the SSDI sites to see what's new:

CURSON, Alfred
SSN 057-12-2657
Born: 5/5/1922
Died: 1/7/2000
Last Residence: Nassau County, NY
[nothing more specific]

I know that Alfred was a son of William ("Willie") and Rose CURSON. I
know that Willie died 11/1978 in Jamaica, Queens, NY, but nothing more
about him or her. I also know that Alfred had a brother (Zelig) and a
sister (Rose).

I don't know who, if anyone, >from this part of my CURSON/KURSON/CARSON
family is still alive. It is my fervent hope that finding the death
notice and/or obit will help lead me to locating a surviving member of
that part of our family. This would be wonderful, as I haven't been
able to make that connection in the 23+ years that I've been
searching.

If anyone can lend a helping hand, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks,
(Mrs.) Ricki Lynn Randall Zunk
Kendall, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Alfred CURSON, died January 7, 2000 in Nassau County, NY #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Hi All:

I'm writing this in the hope that perhaps SKS might find something
familiar and/or be willing and able to help me find a death notice or
obit for this man. I found the following information while doing one
of my regular checks at the SSDI sites to see what's new:

CURSON, Alfred
SSN 057-12-2657
Born: 5/5/1922
Died: 1/7/2000
Last Residence: Nassau County, NY
[nothing more specific]

I know that Alfred was a son of William ("Willie") and Rose CURSON. I
know that Willie died 11/1978 in Jamaica, Queens, NY, but nothing more
about him or her. I also know that Alfred had a brother (Zelig) and a
sister (Rose).

I don't know who, if anyone, >from this part of my CURSON/KURSON/CARSON
family is still alive. It is my fervent hope that finding the death
notice and/or obit will help lead me to locating a surviving member of
that part of our family. This would be wonderful, as I haven't been
able to make that connection in the 23+ years that I've been
searching.

If anyone can lend a helping hand, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks,
(Mrs.) Ricki Lynn Randall Zunk
Kendall, FL


A note in Polish? #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

What seems to be the same handwritten note (in Polish?) appears
next to the birth records of all four children of Pinkas and Witie beile
Pikholz. These births were in Rozdol, circa 1890.

I'd be pleased if someone would have a look and tell me what it
says.

http://www.geocities.com/pikholz/note.htm

Thank you.

Israel Pickholtz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen A note in Polish? #general

IsraelP <zach4v6@...>
 

What seems to be the same handwritten note (in Polish?) appears
next to the birth records of all four children of Pinkas and Witie beile
Pikholz. These births were in Rozdol, circa 1890.

I'd be pleased if someone would have a look and tell me what it
says.

http://www.geocities.com/pikholz/note.htm

Thank you.

Israel Pickholtz


JewishGen's NEW Projects - A 2001 Odyssey #lodz #poland

Seflaum@...
 

In case you missed this important message on the JewishGen Discussion Group,
it is reproduced here:

Subject: JewishGen's NEW Projects - A 2001 Odyssey
From: "Susan E. King" <susan.king@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 21:47:12 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1

Those flashes of lightening in the sky are not the only energy being
generated in Texas these days. JewishGen is firing on all cylinders
and then some! <grin> Plans for all the new additions to be launched
in 2001 reveal the potential for many successful connections and the
ability for JewishGenners to access information previously unavailable
all >from the comfort of their own homes.

To handle the explosion of programs, projects and databases, Michael
Tobias, V.P. of Programming and Development, and Warren Blatt, V.P.
of Technical Operations, are busy designing a totally new
infrastructure which will house the future generation of data on the
JewishGen site Please recognize that during this time devoted to
initial design and development, no new projects requiring databases or
programming will be introduced. However, there is quite a bit that we
all can be working on while the technical aspects are being designed
and implemented across the JewishGen site.

Those who were present in Salt Lake City were introduced to the
concept. It is a little more complex than we can impart in a
single message, however, if you take a look at the All Latvia
Database, <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Latvia/> you will catch
a glimpse of what this new presentation will look like. Use the name
"Goldberg" for the search and review each of the returns and links.
<grin> There's really more to it.. and perhaps in the coming months,
as it develops, we will be able to share more of the elements. But,
if the feedback in Salt Lake City, is any indicator, it is really
awesome! So, in addition to the Online Worldwide Burial Registry
(OWBR)project which was announced in August
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/> there are two more
projects we want you to know about.

Yad Vashem and JewishGen

During the JewishGen presentation at the July conference in Salt Lake
City, an historic data sharing agreement was signed between these
two organizations. The official press release is available at

<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen/pr/YadVashemAgreement.htm>

Yad Vashem will begin to share with us some of the the 10,000 lists
available in their archives. JewishGen's role will be in providing
the network of volunteers gathered >from the special interest and
research groups we host, as well as other interested groups, to
index and digitize the data contained in these lists. The resulting
databases will be accessible on both the Yad Vashem and JewishGen web
sites. Part of our planned technical redesign is the preparation of a
special site to house all this new material.

The catch is that this will not be possible without your assistance in
volunteering for data input teams. There is still planning to complete
before we are ready for the actual work to begin. But here is what we
are doing to set up the infrastructure to handle all the new data that
will be coming our way.

1) JewishGen will be appointing a technical coordinator to work with
SIGs and other research groups to set up teams and train them on the
necessary procedures;

2) We have already received the lists identified below >from Yad Vashem
and these will be distributed to various SIGs as soon as all the
procedures have been worked out. Our intent is to start with some of
the smaller lists so we can begin to build quality assurance into the
process to insure data integrity throughout all 10,000 lists.

The first set of lists include:

List of Jews >from Szombathely, Hungary, 3200 records
List of Jews >from Debrecen, Hungary, 3964 records
Transnistra, 2320 records
Moghilev, 1973 records
Norway and Denmark, 1300 records
Prague, 1360 records
Krosno, 2070 records

To avoid confusion, we have agreed that there will be a single point
of contact between us and Yad Vashem. All work will be channeled
through Joyce Field, V.P. for Research and a technical coordinator.
Warren Blatt and Michael Tobias will head up our technical team.
Joyce, working with her counterpart at Yad Vashem will coordinate
the selection of files, and their distribution to the participating
SIGs. Later in the project the local JGSs will be asked to assist
with the project.

To cover costs of photocopying and postage, expected to be significant
due to the number of lists involved, a fundraising program has been
established and is listed at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/Research.html>

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM)

JewishGen has had a cooperative relationship with the USHMM since its
announcement at the 1999 New York conference. Recently JewishGen and
USHMM agreed to use the same single point of contact procedure as
outlined above for the Yad Vashem Project. All public and press
announcements regarding both projects will emanate >from the
Research Division.

The planning and organizational design are just about finalized. Now
comes the critical piece....the marshalling of forces....and that's
where you all come in. You will be just as much an important part of
this effort as the planners nd the technical staff. Make no mistake,
it's you folks out there who volunteer who actually bring these
projects to fruition. You are the volunteer army that will make it
happen.

When your SIG or Research Group announces a particular data entry
need, don't think twice, just agree to help. The more volunteers,
the less work for all, and the sooner all JewishGenners will have
an opportunity to view information previously not as easily available.

You will all be able to see it on your own computers! And more
importantly, you'll each know that you've had a hand in putting it
there.

Finally, as Glen Strauss pointed out in his recent message, it's all
the people who use JewishGen who also must come forth and support the
Operations budget. Yes...we need you to help in getting the
information together and that's why we say you've "had a hand in
putting it there". But, once it's there, we need your help in keeping
it there. The cost to maintain internet connectivity, co-location of
our servers, monthly phone bills, and technical support is growing.

The sophistication of our hardware and software needs is very
different than just a year ago. We need your help with this
too. If the truth be told, the only thing about the internet that is
free is the opportunity we provide for you to access all this
information without charging a membership or monthly fee. Will you
help up keep it that way? It's a two pronged function ...

To support the acquisition of data in a research project of interest
to you
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/Research.html>

To help JewishGen keep it online and freely accessible
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/Operations.html>

We look forward to shared excitement as we embark together on what
could be termed our own 2001 Odyssey. There is no doubt
there's bit of work to do, and we have only just begun. We hope all of
you will begin to make this journey with us... sharing and committing
both your time and financial support to this outstanding institution
we know as - JewishGen.

Susan


Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland JewishGen's NEW Projects - A 2001 Odyssey #poland #lodz

Seflaum@...
 

In case you missed this important message on the JewishGen Discussion Group,
it is reproduced here:

Subject: JewishGen's NEW Projects - A 2001 Odyssey
From: "Susan E. King" <susan.king@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 21:47:12 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1

Those flashes of lightening in the sky are not the only energy being
generated in Texas these days. JewishGen is firing on all cylinders
and then some! <grin> Plans for all the new additions to be launched
in 2001 reveal the potential for many successful connections and the
ability for JewishGenners to access information previously unavailable
all >from the comfort of their own homes.

To handle the explosion of programs, projects and databases, Michael
Tobias, V.P. of Programming and Development, and Warren Blatt, V.P.
of Technical Operations, are busy designing a totally new
infrastructure which will house the future generation of data on the
JewishGen site Please recognize that during this time devoted to
initial design and development, no new projects requiring databases or
programming will be introduced. However, there is quite a bit that we
all can be working on while the technical aspects are being designed
and implemented across the JewishGen site.

Those who were present in Salt Lake City were introduced to the
concept. It is a little more complex than we can impart in a
single message, however, if you take a look at the All Latvia
Database, <http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Latvia/> you will catch
a glimpse of what this new presentation will look like. Use the name
"Goldberg" for the search and review each of the returns and links.
<grin> There's really more to it.. and perhaps in the coming months,
as it develops, we will be able to share more of the elements. But,
if the feedback in Salt Lake City, is any indicator, it is really
awesome! So, in addition to the Online Worldwide Burial Registry
(OWBR)project which was announced in August
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/> there are two more
projects we want you to know about.

Yad Vashem and JewishGen

During the JewishGen presentation at the July conference in Salt Lake
City, an historic data sharing agreement was signed between these
two organizations. The official press release is available at

<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen/pr/YadVashemAgreement.htm>

Yad Vashem will begin to share with us some of the the 10,000 lists
available in their archives. JewishGen's role will be in providing
the network of volunteers gathered >from the special interest and
research groups we host, as well as other interested groups, to
index and digitize the data contained in these lists. The resulting
databases will be accessible on both the Yad Vashem and JewishGen web
sites. Part of our planned technical redesign is the preparation of a
special site to house all this new material.

The catch is that this will not be possible without your assistance in
volunteering for data input teams. There is still planning to complete
before we are ready for the actual work to begin. But here is what we
are doing to set up the infrastructure to handle all the new data that
will be coming our way.

1) JewishGen will be appointing a technical coordinator to work with
SIGs and other research groups to set up teams and train them on the
necessary procedures;

2) We have already received the lists identified below >from Yad Vashem
and these will be distributed to various SIGs as soon as all the
procedures have been worked out. Our intent is to start with some of
the smaller lists so we can begin to build quality assurance into the
process to insure data integrity throughout all 10,000 lists.

The first set of lists include:

List of Jews >from Szombathely, Hungary, 3200 records
List of Jews >from Debrecen, Hungary, 3964 records
Transnistra, 2320 records
Moghilev, 1973 records
Norway and Denmark, 1300 records
Prague, 1360 records
Krosno, 2070 records

To avoid confusion, we have agreed that there will be a single point
of contact between us and Yad Vashem. All work will be channeled
through Joyce Field, V.P. for Research and a technical coordinator.
Warren Blatt and Michael Tobias will head up our technical team.
Joyce, working with her counterpart at Yad Vashem will coordinate
the selection of files, and their distribution to the participating
SIGs. Later in the project the local JGSs will be asked to assist
with the project.

To cover costs of photocopying and postage, expected to be significant
due to the number of lists involved, a fundraising program has been
established and is listed at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/Research.html>

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM)

JewishGen has had a cooperative relationship with the USHMM since its
announcement at the 1999 New York conference. Recently JewishGen and
USHMM agreed to use the same single point of contact procedure as
outlined above for the Yad Vashem Project. All public and press
announcements regarding both projects will emanate >from the
Research Division.

The planning and organizational design are just about finalized. Now
comes the critical piece....the marshalling of forces....and that's
where you all come in. You will be just as much an important part of
this effort as the planners nd the technical staff. Make no mistake,
it's you folks out there who volunteer who actually bring these
projects to fruition. You are the volunteer army that will make it
happen.

When your SIG or Research Group announces a particular data entry
need, don't think twice, just agree to help. The more volunteers,
the less work for all, and the sooner all JewishGenners will have
an opportunity to view information previously not as easily available.

You will all be able to see it on your own computers! And more
importantly, you'll each know that you've had a hand in putting it
there.

Finally, as Glen Strauss pointed out in his recent message, it's all
the people who use JewishGen who also must come forth and support the
Operations budget. Yes...we need you to help in getting the
information together and that's why we say you've "had a hand in
putting it there". But, once it's there, we need your help in keeping
it there. The cost to maintain internet connectivity, co-location of
our servers, monthly phone bills, and technical support is growing.

The sophistication of our hardware and software needs is very
different than just a year ago. We need your help with this
too. If the truth be told, the only thing about the internet that is
free is the opportunity we provide for you to access all this
information without charging a membership or monthly fee. Will you
help up keep it that way? It's a two pronged function ...

To support the acquisition of data in a research project of interest
to you
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/Research.html>

To help JewishGen keep it online and freely accessible
<http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/Operations.html>

We look forward to shared excitement as we embark together on what
could be termed our own 2001 Odyssey. There is no doubt
there's bit of work to do, and we have only just begun. We hope all of
you will begin to make this journey with us... sharing and committing
both your time and financial support to this outstanding institution
we know as - JewishGen.

Susan


Re: NYC deaths #general

FEntin2385@...
 

Hello,
Go to the LDHFHL and get deaths in NYC on microfilm for those years and hunt.
I had luck with those indexes for Birth; Death and Marriage.
Also get a list of Jewish Cemetaries in the 5 boroughs and call them or write
the other way is faster. . I found my brother who died Dec. 31st 1919 at 6
weeks of age. I sent away for his Death Certificate by the # next to his name
and called the Cemetary at Mt. Hebron who sent me directions by subway and
bus and directions to the "unmarked Grave" in the children's section. I took
a picture of the plot in between two little girls. I live in Calif. I've been
back 3 times in the 5 years of Genealogy.
Good Luck, Fran Entin


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: NYC deaths #general

FEntin2385@...
 

Hello,
Go to the LDHFHL and get deaths in NYC on microfilm for those years and hunt.
I had luck with those indexes for Birth; Death and Marriage.
Also get a list of Jewish Cemetaries in the 5 boroughs and call them or write
the other way is faster. . I found my brother who died Dec. 31st 1919 at 6
weeks of age. I sent away for his Death Certificate by the # next to his name
and called the Cemetary at Mt. Hebron who sent me directions by subway and
bus and directions to the "unmarked Grave" in the children's section. I took
a picture of the plot in between two little girls. I live in Calif. I've been
back 3 times in the 5 years of Genealogy.
Good Luck, Fran Entin


ALPERT family of NYC #general

Gary Gluck <gagluck@...>
 

I am searching for any descendents of Schmuel and Bella Alpert who lived in
NYC in the early part of this century.
The children that I am aware of are:
Lillian who married(married name unknown) and had a child named Howard
Barney, who was a jeweler and moved to Florida
Judy ..nothing known about her
Morris...nothing known about him..
Does this sound like anyone you know?
Gary Gluck


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ALPERT family of NYC #general

Gary Gluck <gagluck@...>
 

I am searching for any descendents of Schmuel and Bella Alpert who lived in
NYC in the early part of this century.
The children that I am aware of are:
Lillian who married(married name unknown) and had a child named Howard
Barney, who was a jeweler and moved to Florida
Judy ..nothing known about her
Morris...nothing known about him..
Does this sound like anyone you know?
Gary Gluck


Difficulties with Translating URL #general

Carol Raspler
 

Thanks to all who wrote in with suggestions and answers regarding a
URL I had found in my Bookmarks
that I couldn't interpret because it was in German. The best
suggestion came >from a personal friend
who recommended
http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn
which site did the job for me and I therefore, recommend to you all
for translations. . . A special
thanks to Myron Chijner who took time >from his own work to translate
the page in its entirety. The
URL was >from a Dutch Law School's review of war crimes cases.
Anyone interested in further
information on this site, please contact me privately.
Carol Raspler, Delray Beach, FL


what is a rabbinate? #general

Gary Gluck <gagluck@...>
 

While searching through LDS records of vital statistics in Szczuczyn,
Belarus, I came across a section called a "rabbinate".
What is this?
It appeared to be a lengthy diary.
Gary Gluck


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Difficulties with Translating URL #general

Carol Raspler
 

Thanks to all who wrote in with suggestions and answers regarding a
URL I had found in my Bookmarks
that I couldn't interpret because it was in German. The best
suggestion came >from a personal friend
who recommended
http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn
which site did the job for me and I therefore, recommend to you all
for translations. . . A special
thanks to Myron Chijner who took time >from his own work to translate
the page in its entirety. The
URL was >from a Dutch Law School's review of war crimes cases.
Anyone interested in further
information on this site, please contact me privately.
Carol Raspler, Delray Beach, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen what is a rabbinate? #general

Gary Gluck <gagluck@...>
 

While searching through LDS records of vital statistics in Szczuczyn,
Belarus, I came across a section called a "rabbinate".
What is this?
It appeared to be a lengthy diary.
Gary Gluck


Re: Beider's Dictionary online #general

Curiousyl@...
 

Incidentally - since there are so many negatives - may I offer "half a
positive":
My maternal research surname was listed along with the variants - as was my
husband's surname.

However, my paternal surname could not be found on-line.
But it has appeared in other surname research sources.

Sylvia Furshman Nusinov
Florida


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Beider's Dictionary online #general

Curiousyl@...
 

Incidentally - since there are so many negatives - may I offer "half a
positive":
My maternal research surname was listed along with the variants - as was my
husband's surname.

However, my paternal surname could not be found on-line.
But it has appeared in other surname research sources.

Sylvia Furshman Nusinov
Florida


Kristlovska, Latvia #latvia

Peerutin, Julian <Julian_Peerutin@...>
 

Hi,

I'm trying to trace the origins of my ancestors (family name: PIRUTIN) and,
like many, have relatively little to go on, in terms of surviving
documentation.
I've recently learned that the matriarch and patriarch and their 7 children
came >from a shtetl they called 'Krislovska', Latvia apparently near Riga.
The patriarch was born there in the year 1865 and the matriarch in 1870.
The whole family picked up their things and moved to Kazan, Tartarstan,
Russia in 1914 and then later my grandfather together with his brother
moved to Vitebsk, Belarus where he married my grandmother, who originated
from Dvinsk, Latvia
According to Dictionary of Jewish Surnames in Russian Empire the name
Pirutin comes >from a village in Belarus
"Pirutin (Vitebsk, Drissa) T: >from the village Pirutino (Polotsk d.)
{Piryatin, Pirutinskij (Peratinskij, Piratinskij, Piryatinskij)}."

I've tried searching the Jewishgen 'shtetl-seeker' but Kristlovska is not
recognized and I am not sure where Kazan is as there are quite a few names
that come up.
I have found Pirutino.
Has anyone heard of these shtetls? Have I spelt them correctly? Is there a
list of Latvian shtetls with the old names against the new modern names?

Since this family name is very unusually I wonder how it comes >from the
village Pirutino when the family started out in Kristlovska, Latvia. If I
understand correctly this is about the time that the family names were being
chosen.

I would appreciate any help on this.

Thanks,

Julian Peerutin


Re: Stein, Rosenberg from Daugavpils (Dvinsk) #latvia

Irby Cohen <imclcs@...>
 

My Stein was Mayer, and I think he was b'r Chaim. I'll check to be sure.
Mayer was my gf, who emigrated to Birmingham, AL. However, I never heard,
nor asked about any siblings of his.

At 05:03 PM 09/09/00 -0400, you wrote:
I am researching Benjamin STEIN, born 1877in Daugavpils, and his wife,
Rachel ROSENBERG, born 1879 and died February 4, 1930, in Daugavpils.
Benjamin's father's name was Joseph; Rachel's father's name was Nison. The y
were married in Daugavpils, around 1898-1899.

Can anyone help with tracking down birth and marriage records, or
suggestions? Thanks!

Barry A. Schwartz
Certified Professional Geologist
American Institute of Professional Geologists


---
This SIG (latvia@...) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

You are currently subscribed to latvia as: imclcs@...
To unsubscribe send email to $subst('Email.Unsub')


Latvia SIG #Latvia Kristlovska, Latvia #latvia

Peerutin, Julian <Julian_Peerutin@...>
 

Hi,

I'm trying to trace the origins of my ancestors (family name: PIRUTIN) and,
like many, have relatively little to go on, in terms of surviving
documentation.
I've recently learned that the matriarch and patriarch and their 7 children
came >from a shtetl they called 'Krislovska', Latvia apparently near Riga.
The patriarch was born there in the year 1865 and the matriarch in 1870.
The whole family picked up their things and moved to Kazan, Tartarstan,
Russia in 1914 and then later my grandfather together with his brother
moved to Vitebsk, Belarus where he married my grandmother, who originated
from Dvinsk, Latvia
According to Dictionary of Jewish Surnames in Russian Empire the name
Pirutin comes >from a village in Belarus
"Pirutin (Vitebsk, Drissa) T: >from the village Pirutino (Polotsk d.)
{Piryatin, Pirutinskij (Peratinskij, Piratinskij, Piryatinskij)}."

I've tried searching the Jewishgen 'shtetl-seeker' but Kristlovska is not
recognized and I am not sure where Kazan is as there are quite a few names
that come up.
I have found Pirutino.
Has anyone heard of these shtetls? Have I spelt them correctly? Is there a
list of Latvian shtetls with the old names against the new modern names?

Since this family name is very unusually I wonder how it comes >from the
village Pirutino when the family started out in Kristlovska, Latvia. If I
understand correctly this is about the time that the family names were being
chosen.

I would appreciate any help on this.

Thanks,

Julian Peerutin


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Stein, Rosenberg from Daugavpils (Dvinsk) #latvia

Irby Cohen <imclcs@...>
 

My Stein was Mayer, and I think he was b'r Chaim. I'll check to be sure.
Mayer was my gf, who emigrated to Birmingham, AL. However, I never heard,
nor asked about any siblings of his.

At 05:03 PM 09/09/00 -0400, you wrote:
I am researching Benjamin STEIN, born 1877in Daugavpils, and his wife,
Rachel ROSENBERG, born 1879 and died February 4, 1930, in Daugavpils.
Benjamin's father's name was Joseph; Rachel's father's name was Nison. The y
were married in Daugavpils, around 1898-1899.

Can anyone help with tracking down birth and marriage records, or
suggestions? Thanks!

Barry A. Schwartz
Certified Professional Geologist
American Institute of Professional Geologists


---
This SIG (latvia@...) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

You are currently subscribed to latvia as: imclcs@...
To unsubscribe send email to $subst('Email.Unsub')