Date   

Re: Mother's maiden name POKROJSKI HOLLANDERSKY #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:08:22, cglikson@ciudad.com.ar (Carlos Glikson)
opined:

Stanley Winthrop wrote he was "..told that there was a period in Poland
around 1880 when the government did not recognize Jewish marriages...
(C)hildren...who later emigrated were given ..documents with their mothers
maiden name as their family name.".
Stanley asked if this was true. It could explain why my father's
POKROJSKI / POKROISKY uncles adopted the HOLLANDER surname (their mother's
shortened HOLLANDERSKY) arriving in the States after that date >from today's
Poland /Lithuania border area. I thought this was due to easier spelling.
Is there information on the duration of this lack of recognition of Jewish
marriages, if it did exist?
There is an alternate explanation for the choice of your uncles, which
is the same as the choice of my own grandfather (who left exactly the
same region in 1898). He was one of a large extended family,
originally Najman, that emigrated to the US at about the same time and
simply anglicized the surname to "Newman". My grandfather chose to
leave Poland as "Guttman" and therefore enter the US with that name,
which is mysterious until one notes that his mother's maiden name was
Guttmanowicz. Why he did this is apparently related to the fact that
he was "on the lam", having deserted his unit in the Russian Imperial
Army.

Although you may well be right about their reasons, it would be a good
idea to check out whether they might have had their own reasons,
avoidance of military service or other, for leaving the Russian Empire
under a name other than that with which they were born.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: Messages to the "From:" or "Reply to:" address of this
posting will NOT reach me, but will be deleted automatically unread.
Replace "sheol" with "stan". Please send plain text only.


Samuel FRIEDBERG #general

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg <n.kraus-friedberg@...>
 

Hi!
I'm looking for information on Samuel FRIEDBERG, my grandfather's brother, a
cantor who lived in Far Rockaway(part of Queens), New York. I'm not sure
exactly when he lived there, but it could have been in the 1920's. He was
born in 1862, probably in Grodno, and his parents were Meir and Aidel
FRIEDBERG. I have a possible lead but nothing solid, and the lead itself may
not be accurate.
Thanks for any help anyone can give me.
Nurit Kraus-Friedberg
n.kraus-friedberg@worldnet.att.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Mother's maiden name POKROJSKI HOLLANDERSKY #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:08:22, cglikson@ciudad.com.ar (Carlos Glikson)
opined:

Stanley Winthrop wrote he was "..told that there was a period in Poland
around 1880 when the government did not recognize Jewish marriages...
(C)hildren...who later emigrated were given ..documents with their mothers
maiden name as their family name.".
Stanley asked if this was true. It could explain why my father's
POKROJSKI / POKROISKY uncles adopted the HOLLANDER surname (their mother's
shortened HOLLANDERSKY) arriving in the States after that date >from today's
Poland /Lithuania border area. I thought this was due to easier spelling.
Is there information on the duration of this lack of recognition of Jewish
marriages, if it did exist?
There is an alternate explanation for the choice of your uncles, which
is the same as the choice of my own grandfather (who left exactly the
same region in 1898). He was one of a large extended family,
originally Najman, that emigrated to the US at about the same time and
simply anglicized the surname to "Newman". My grandfather chose to
leave Poland as "Guttman" and therefore enter the US with that name,
which is mysterious until one notes that his mother's maiden name was
Guttmanowicz. Why he did this is apparently related to the fact that
he was "on the lam", having deserted his unit in the Russian Imperial
Army.

Although you may well be right about their reasons, it would be a good
idea to check out whether they might have had their own reasons,
avoidance of military service or other, for leaving the Russian Empire
under a name other than that with which they were born.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

PLEASE NOTE: Messages to the "From:" or "Reply to:" address of this
posting will NOT reach me, but will be deleted automatically unread.
Replace "sheol" with "stan". Please send plain text only.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Samuel FRIEDBERG #general

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg <n.kraus-friedberg@...>
 

Hi!
I'm looking for information on Samuel FRIEDBERG, my grandfather's brother, a
cantor who lived in Far Rockaway(part of Queens), New York. I'm not sure
exactly when he lived there, but it could have been in the 1920's. He was
born in 1862, probably in Grodno, and his parents were Meir and Aidel
FRIEDBERG. I have a possible lead but nothing solid, and the lead itself may
not be accurate.
Thanks for any help anyone can give me.
Nurit Kraus-Friedberg
n.kraus-friedberg@worldnet.att.net


Re: Ships from Bremen #general

Meshenberg, Michael J. <mjmeshenberg@...>
 

Try this site:

http://www.cimorelli.com/safe/shipmenu.htm
New Ships Database Extraction Tools:

This is an online collection of databases comprised of the Morton Allan
Directory, M1066 Microfilm series >from NARA, various newspaper articles,
Internet sources, and personal contributions, henceforth known as CIMO -
Cimorelli Immigration Manifests Online.

You should be able to find your ship here.

Mike Meshenberg


Ilya Zeldes [mailto:ilyaz@iline.com] wrote:

Dear Genners:
I'm trying to find a ship sailed >from Bremen (Bremerhaven) to New York in
December 1909 or January 1910. I looked in the German SIG, on LDS FHL and
on the Web in general, but found nothing... Any suggestions on how to find it?
SNIP


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Ships from Bremen #general

Meshenberg, Michael J. <mjmeshenberg@...>
 

Try this site:

http://www.cimorelli.com/safe/shipmenu.htm
New Ships Database Extraction Tools:

This is an online collection of databases comprised of the Morton Allan
Directory, M1066 Microfilm series >from NARA, various newspaper articles,
Internet sources, and personal contributions, henceforth known as CIMO -
Cimorelli Immigration Manifests Online.

You should be able to find your ship here.

Mike Meshenberg


Ilya Zeldes [mailto:ilyaz@iline.com] wrote:

Dear Genners:
I'm trying to find a ship sailed >from Bremen (Bremerhaven) to New York in
December 1909 or January 1910. I looked in the German SIG, on LDS FHL and
on the Web in general, but found nothing... Any suggestions on how to find it?
SNIP


Meyer Samuel FRIEDBERG #general

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg <n.kraus-friedberg@...>
 

Hi, Genners!
Do any of you have any information on Meyer Samuel FRIEDBERG (born in
Brooklyn, NY on October 26, 1915) or his parents: Barnett FRIEDBERG and
Esther Bessie MACHLIN Friedberg. In December 1936 Meyer was unemployed and
living at Atkins Avenue, Brooklyn, NY.
I'm trying to determine if this is a branch of my family.
Thanks!
Nurit Kraus-Friedberg
n.kraus-friedberg@worldnet.att.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Meyer Samuel FRIEDBERG #general

Nurit Kraus-Friedberg <n.kraus-friedberg@...>
 

Hi, Genners!
Do any of you have any information on Meyer Samuel FRIEDBERG (born in
Brooklyn, NY on October 26, 1915) or his parents: Barnett FRIEDBERG and
Esther Bessie MACHLIN Friedberg. In December 1936 Meyer was unemployed and
living at Atkins Avenue, Brooklyn, NY.
I'm trying to determine if this is a branch of my family.
Thanks!
Nurit Kraus-Friedberg
n.kraus-friedberg@worldnet.att.net


Krasnoyarsky Kray #general

Alter & Dina Ophir <alterdina@...>
 

Errol Schneegurt <ESES@aol.com> wrote:

I am trying to locate a place called Krasnoysky Kray in Russia. Just found
out some family information that this city and its Labor camps back in 1941
may have played a part in my Grandfathers life.
Is there some place I can find out about the Labor camps there back in
1941? Seems that my Grandfather was sentenced to 5 years there but no
record of him arriving there.
Errol Schneegurt LI NY eses@aol.com
Krasnoyarsky Kray is a very huge area in Russia, the biggest city is
Krasnoyarsk. The area stretches >from the southern border of Russia to the
Arctic Ocean. one of the world biggest rivers, the Yenissey flows in this
area. Hunderds of labor camps existed there beginning in the early '20s
after the Bolshevik revolution till the soviet Russia ceased to exist in
1991.
Soviet archives are opened now, and I think there is some access to them
through official Russian organizations, one of them by the name Memorial
that deals with former inmates in those camps.
Alter Ophir
alterdina@ashdot-a.org.il


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Krasnoyarsky Kray #general

Alter & Dina Ophir <alterdina@...>
 

Errol Schneegurt <ESES@aol.com> wrote:

I am trying to locate a place called Krasnoysky Kray in Russia. Just found
out some family information that this city and its Labor camps back in 1941
may have played a part in my Grandfathers life.
Is there some place I can find out about the Labor camps there back in
1941? Seems that my Grandfather was sentenced to 5 years there but no
record of him arriving there.
Errol Schneegurt LI NY eses@aol.com
Krasnoyarsky Kray is a very huge area in Russia, the biggest city is
Krasnoyarsk. The area stretches >from the southern border of Russia to the
Arctic Ocean. one of the world biggest rivers, the Yenissey flows in this
area. Hunderds of labor camps existed there beginning in the early '20s
after the Bolshevik revolution till the soviet Russia ceased to exist in
1991.
Soviet archives are opened now, and I think there is some access to them
through official Russian organizations, one of them by the name Memorial
that deals with former inmates in those camps.
Alter Ophir
alterdina@ashdot-a.org.il


RE Jewish marriages #general

Bud484BG@...
 

I have a question re the postings on Jewish Marriages in Poland. Did this
apply to Jewish marriages in Poland only? My husband's father was born in
Vienna, Austria in 1898, and was 2 yrs old when his parents emigrated to the
U.S. I received his birth record >from the Vienna source (through JewishGen)
and his father's surname does not appear anywhere on the birth record. His
mother's surname, Freedman is given and no name is given for his father on
the birth record.

I was advised that there was no marriage record in the Viennese archives.
And that probably the couple were married elsewhere and had not formally
registered their marriage in Vienna.

I have not been able to reconcile this since my husband's father and mother
emigrated to Vienna >from Lemberg and Lodz, respectively, and met in Vienna.

The passenger manifest records in 1900 for the family show the surname as
Markel, my husband's father's name.

Anyone have any information on the method of formalizing Jewish marriages in
Vienna?

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California

Searching:

MARKEL: LEMBERG;VIENNA;- PORTLAND, OREGON
FREEDMAN: LODZ;VIENNA;- PORTLAND, OR, LOS ANGELES
KAGAN/KAHAN,COHEN: VILEIKA(BELARUS)- MILWAUKEE,WI, CHICAGO,L.A.
MINKOVSKY/TALALAYEVSKY: KIEV( UKRAINE)-CHICAGO, PHILADELPHIA, L.A.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE Jewish marriages #general

Bud484BG@...
 

I have a question re the postings on Jewish Marriages in Poland. Did this
apply to Jewish marriages in Poland only? My husband's father was born in
Vienna, Austria in 1898, and was 2 yrs old when his parents emigrated to the
U.S. I received his birth record >from the Vienna source (through JewishGen)
and his father's surname does not appear anywhere on the birth record. His
mother's surname, Freedman is given and no name is given for his father on
the birth record.

I was advised that there was no marriage record in the Viennese archives.
And that probably the couple were married elsewhere and had not formally
registered their marriage in Vienna.

I have not been able to reconcile this since my husband's father and mother
emigrated to Vienna >from Lemberg and Lodz, respectively, and met in Vienna.

The passenger manifest records in 1900 for the family show the surname as
Markel, my husband's father's name.

Anyone have any information on the method of formalizing Jewish marriages in
Vienna?

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California

Searching:

MARKEL: LEMBERG;VIENNA;- PORTLAND, OREGON
FREEDMAN: LODZ;VIENNA;- PORTLAND, OR, LOS ANGELES
KAGAN/KAHAN,COHEN: VILEIKA(BELARUS)- MILWAUKEE,WI, CHICAGO,L.A.
MINKOVSKY/TALALAYEVSKY: KIEV( UKRAINE)-CHICAGO, PHILADELPHIA, L.A.


Re: Family Disinterest #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I can empathize with "family disinterest". At a family reunion a few years
ago, I handed out entire Family Trees with a form for people to fill out to
give me more information. Out of more than 25 handed out, only 2 or 3
returned their forms in the mail!
Larry Blumenthal

I tend to think there is another really powerful element at work here:

Many people on this list (especially the older members) grew up with
parents who, as children, had dedicated themselves to doing whatever it
took to assimilate -- to become "Englishmen," "Americans" or whatever --
to overcome the grinding poverty and lack of secular education and the
heavy burden of antisemitism that had afflicted many of their own parents
who came as immigrants >from Eastern Europe to get away >from all that. I
have known people to claim they didn't know a word of Yiddish when in fact
their parents had spoken Yiddish in the home while they were growing up and
they understood it perfectly well!

And now, here we come along, a bunch of Jgenners in hot pursuit of our East
European past, trying to read birth certificates in Polish and Russian, and
to understand the Yiddish vocabulary words we encounter in our research --
in short, laying bare for all to see the "Anatevka" shantytowns and the
humble occupations of our grandparents or greatgrandparents and so forth.

Is it any wonder that many of us run into the hostility of relatives who
would far rather we were doing nothing of the kind?

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Family Disinterest #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I can empathize with "family disinterest". At a family reunion a few years
ago, I handed out entire Family Trees with a form for people to fill out to
give me more information. Out of more than 25 handed out, only 2 or 3
returned their forms in the mail!
Larry Blumenthal

I tend to think there is another really powerful element at work here:

Many people on this list (especially the older members) grew up with
parents who, as children, had dedicated themselves to doing whatever it
took to assimilate -- to become "Englishmen," "Americans" or whatever --
to overcome the grinding poverty and lack of secular education and the
heavy burden of antisemitism that had afflicted many of their own parents
who came as immigrants >from Eastern Europe to get away >from all that. I
have known people to claim they didn't know a word of Yiddish when in fact
their parents had spoken Yiddish in the home while they were growing up and
they understood it perfectly well!

And now, here we come along, a bunch of Jgenners in hot pursuit of our East
European past, trying to read birth certificates in Polish and Russian, and
to understand the Yiddish vocabulary words we encounter in our research --
in short, laying bare for all to see the "Anatevka" shantytowns and the
humble occupations of our grandparents or greatgrandparents and so forth.

Is it any wonder that many of us run into the hostility of relatives who
would far rather we were doing nothing of the kind?

Judith Romney Wegner


ViewMate Posting file VM119: Origin of Lockets #general

HEYTEACH@...
 

Hello all,

I would appreciate it if one of you could assist me in identifying the origin
of the two lockets I have posted in To View File VM119. The smaller of the
two was given to me when I was a child. My sister and a paternal first cousin
also received one. They are both enamel, and I have a feeling they are
Russian in origin, but I am not sure.

The small one I received prior to 1958. Th larger one I saw on ebay and
purchased it. The major difference between the two is that the figure holding
the ten commandants on the smaller one has the commandments numbered in
Hebrew and the larger has the Roman numerals.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated,

Susan SILVERSTEIN
Heyteach@aol.com
San Diego, CA

Searching: BERNSTEIN...England ??; COHAN/GOLDEN....Russia; Weiner;
EDELSTEIN...Russia/ New Jersey


Moliff = Mogilev #general

Glenn A. Gorelick <GGorelick@...>
 

To Brooke, other confused Jewishgenners,

Wouldn't it be nice if everything for which we search were easily spelled
and pronounced...

Moliff doesn't exist, but nevertheless was somektimes written on
naturalization papers for individuals who referred to their town of origin
as Mogilev (often meaning the gubernija, in Belarus). It may even refer to
the actual city of Mogilev (also in Belarus).

Glenn Gorelick
JGSLA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate Posting file VM119: Origin of Lockets #general

HEYTEACH@...
 

Hello all,

I would appreciate it if one of you could assist me in identifying the origin
of the two lockets I have posted in To View File VM119. The smaller of the
two was given to me when I was a child. My sister and a paternal first cousin
also received one. They are both enamel, and I have a feeling they are
Russian in origin, but I am not sure.

The small one I received prior to 1958. Th larger one I saw on ebay and
purchased it. The major difference between the two is that the figure holding
the ten commandants on the smaller one has the commandments numbered in
Hebrew and the larger has the Roman numerals.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated,

Susan SILVERSTEIN
Heyteach@aol.com
San Diego, CA

Searching: BERNSTEIN...England ??; COHAN/GOLDEN....Russia; Weiner;
EDELSTEIN...Russia/ New Jersey


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Moliff = Mogilev #general

Glenn A. Gorelick <GGorelick@...>
 

To Brooke, other confused Jewishgenners,

Wouldn't it be nice if everything for which we search were easily spelled
and pronounced...

Moliff doesn't exist, but nevertheless was somektimes written on
naturalization papers for individuals who referred to their town of origin
as Mogilev (often meaning the gubernija, in Belarus). It may even refer to
the actual city of Mogilev (also in Belarus).

Glenn Gorelick
JGSLA


Re: Jewish bootleggers #general

BetteJoy <bettejoy@...>
 

A book was published early this year, " The Purple Gang ", by Paul Kavieff. It
discusses the Jewish gangster era in Detroit. The Purple gang began as
bootleggers, and continued on to murder and mayhem. Many criminals connections
to other other cities and gangs are noted. This book may be of value since
Detroit is across the river >from Windsor, Canada.

Betty Provizer Starkman
Bloomfield Hills, MI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Jewish bootleggers #general

BetteJoy <bettejoy@...>
 

A book was published early this year, " The Purple Gang ", by Paul Kavieff. It
discusses the Jewish gangster era in Detroit. The Purple gang began as
bootleggers, and continued on to murder and mayhem. Many criminals connections
to other other cities and gangs are noted. This book may be of value since
Detroit is across the river >from Windsor, Canada.

Betty Provizer Starkman
Bloomfield Hills, MI