Date   

JGS of SW FL Meeting Dec. 3 #general

Kim Sheintal
 

Dear Jewishgenners,

If you are going to be in the Sarasota-Manatee area on Sunday, December 3,
2000, please join us at 1:00 PM at the JCC, 582 S. McIntosh Road, Sarasota
for our JGS of SW Florida meeting.

"Sharing Our Bubbie's Recipes" is the program. Bring a recipe or two and,
if you can, a sampling for eight people. We will eat, enjoy and reminisce
about our Bubbies!

Kim Sheintal, President
Jewish Genealogical Society of Southwest Florida


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGS of SW FL Meeting Dec. 3 #general

Kim Sheintal
 

Dear Jewishgenners,

If you are going to be in the Sarasota-Manatee area on Sunday, December 3,
2000, please join us at 1:00 PM at the JCC, 582 S. McIntosh Road, Sarasota
for our JGS of SW Florida meeting.

"Sharing Our Bubbie's Recipes" is the program. Bring a recipe or two and,
if you can, a sampling for eight people. We will eat, enjoy and reminisce
about our Bubbies!

Kim Sheintal, President
Jewish Genealogical Society of Southwest Florida


Adoption #general

David Frey <dfrey@...>
 

I have always assumed that the purpose of a family tree is to pass on to
future generations the information which will help them find a better
grounding in this world. Built on all too shifting sand.

To leave out an adopted child is insulting to that person and may leave
questions for latter generations.

In Family trees, truth is truth. To hide facts because of local prejudice
is shortsighted and defeats the purpose of the endeavor itself

Dr David Frey
Adopted son of Judge Maurice Frey
dfrey@bigpond.net.au


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Adoption #general

David Frey <dfrey@...>
 

I have always assumed that the purpose of a family tree is to pass on to
future generations the information which will help them find a better
grounding in this world. Built on all too shifting sand.

To leave out an adopted child is insulting to that person and may leave
questions for latter generations.

In Family trees, truth is truth. To hide facts because of local prejudice
is shortsighted and defeats the purpose of the endeavor itself

Dr David Frey
Adopted son of Judge Maurice Frey
dfrey@bigpond.net.au


Re: Are Others Interested In Your Hobby? #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

My immediate family is not interested-my brother says, "When you finish [!]
write it up and give me a copy." That's it. Of course, he does not know
what the history of our family inheritance of an Omble is-too bad.

However, I have found several more distant and more interested relatives. I
have made several 'distant' relatives into close ones [you know who you
are]. Because of genealogy, I have more in common with some fourth and
fifth cousins than with closer relatives who aren't interested-unfortunately.

So I mention things I think people might be interested in but don't go into
detail. I am ready to add the details if someone asks. Of course, they
send their kids to me when they are doing a family tree for school.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Are Others Interested In Your Hobby? #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

My immediate family is not interested-my brother says, "When you finish [!]
write it up and give me a copy." That's it. Of course, he does not know
what the history of our family inheritance of an Omble is-too bad.

However, I have found several more distant and more interested relatives. I
have made several 'distant' relatives into close ones [you know who you
are]. Because of genealogy, I have more in common with some fourth and
fifth cousins than with closer relatives who aren't interested-unfortunately.

So I mention things I think people might be interested in but don't go into
detail. I am ready to add the details if someone asks. Of course, they
send their kids to me when they are doing a family tree for school.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Residence Register List - Poland #general

molen <mdbl@...>
 

Dear Genners,

In the latest Avotanyu there is an article regarding Residence Register
list in Poland . I was wondering if anyone has had any experience in
receving any kind of list for the years between 1920-1940 for the
Katowice- Bedzin Poland area?

Please respond privately

Moses Lenzky
mlenzky@yahoo.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Residence Register List - Poland #general

molen <mdbl@...>
 

Dear Genners,

In the latest Avotanyu there is an article regarding Residence Register
list in Poland . I was wondering if anyone has had any experience in
receving any kind of list for the years between 1920-1940 for the
Katowice- Bedzin Poland area?

Please respond privately

Moses Lenzky
mlenzky@yahoo.com


Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

I would certainly include an adopted child in a genealogy. He/she is
certainly part of the family. You might also include information about
the adoption with that family's information, as that is an important
part of that family's history - Was the child adopted abroad? Did the
family try for years before being blessed by the adoption of this
child.? Was the child older and in need of a family when adopted?
Whatever the situation, it is very important to that family unit.

It is only if someone needs a kidney transplant (or something similar)
when the child would not necessarily be included.

I even include step children who were raised by a family member-that is
part of the family too, and the situation is important to the story of
the family. It would also be an insult to not include this child when
listing the others in a mixed family. I certainly make a note of the
circumstances involving the family.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

I would certainly include an adopted child in a genealogy. He/she is
certainly part of the family. You might also include information about
the adoption with that family's information, as that is an important
part of that family's history - Was the child adopted abroad? Did the
family try for years before being blessed by the adoption of this
child.? Was the child older and in need of a family when adopted?
Whatever the situation, it is very important to that family unit.

It is only if someone needs a kidney transplant (or something similar)
when the child would not necessarily be included.

I even include step children who were raised by a family member-that is
part of the family too, and the situation is important to the story of
the family. It would also be an insult to not include this child when
listing the others in a mixed family. I certainly make a note of the
circumstances involving the family.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Re: Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

From: sheol@hashkedim.com (Stan Goodman)
Acceptable to whom? It is your family tree, and you are compiling it.
Setting criteria for inclusion is up to you, and nobody else.

That said, I have included adopted children in my tree, and I suppose
I am not the only one. I am sure that there are also people who do not
do so.
The original question was "Is it acceptable practice to include a blood
relative's adopted child in one's family tree?"

Mr. Goodman is correct. It is the genealogist's decision. However, I would
suggest that you consider the sensitivities of the family and ask what the
adoptee or the parents of the adoptee would prefer. If the answer is _no_, I
would ask myself whether a family rift or accuracy is a better result.

As genealogists, we are all interested in accuracy. However, the issue of
privacy, which has been discussed before in this forum, is a personal
issue. In my opinion, family harmony overrides accuracy.

Mark Halpern
West Conshohocken, PA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

From: sheol@hashkedim.com (Stan Goodman)
Acceptable to whom? It is your family tree, and you are compiling it.
Setting criteria for inclusion is up to you, and nobody else.

That said, I have included adopted children in my tree, and I suppose
I am not the only one. I am sure that there are also people who do not
do so.
The original question was "Is it acceptable practice to include a blood
relative's adopted child in one's family tree?"

Mr. Goodman is correct. It is the genealogist's decision. However, I would
suggest that you consider the sensitivities of the family and ask what the
adoptee or the parents of the adoptee would prefer. If the answer is _no_, I
would ask myself whether a family rift or accuracy is a better result.

As genealogists, we are all interested in accuracy. However, the issue of
privacy, which has been discussed before in this forum, is a personal
issue. In my opinion, family harmony overrides accuracy.

Mark Halpern
West Conshohocken, PA


Re: Adopted children in family trees #general

Jessica Tropp <jtropp@...>
 

As an adoptive parent, I absolutely include my adopted son in my family
tree, and also include other adopted relatives. This may not be
theologically correct depending on which branch of Judaism you subscribe to,
and it may not be technically correct if you are tracing lineage >from a
famous rebbe. However, to me, researching and recording family history is
about feeling a loving connection with my past, present, and future family.
Adopted children are most definitely part of that, and if you ask any
adoptive parent, the adoption itself is a huge historical event. It is also
a wonderful way for adoptive children to feel a larger connection to their
adoptive families. Adoptees often talk about the the hole they feel in their
lives not knowing about their birth families, so this is a way to help give
them a sense of history and connection. It would be a wonderful gift to
include them in you r family tree. Even if not "technically correct", it is
a gift of love and inclusion, and how can that be wrong?

Jessica Tropp
Northampton, MA
USA
Researching:
LEVIN(E), KARCHMER, SILVERMAN, RIVKIND >from Vilna
ENTE >from Przemysl, Poland
TROPP >from Galicia
GOLDNER >from Romania


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Adopted children in family trees #general

Jessica Tropp <jtropp@...>
 

As an adoptive parent, I absolutely include my adopted son in my family
tree, and also include other adopted relatives. This may not be
theologically correct depending on which branch of Judaism you subscribe to,
and it may not be technically correct if you are tracing lineage >from a
famous rebbe. However, to me, researching and recording family history is
about feeling a loving connection with my past, present, and future family.
Adopted children are most definitely part of that, and if you ask any
adoptive parent, the adoption itself is a huge historical event. It is also
a wonderful way for adoptive children to feel a larger connection to their
adoptive families. Adoptees often talk about the the hole they feel in their
lives not knowing about their birth families, so this is a way to help give
them a sense of history and connection. It would be a wonderful gift to
include them in you r family tree. Even if not "technically correct", it is
a gift of love and inclusion, and how can that be wrong?

Jessica Tropp
Northampton, MA
USA
Researching:
LEVIN(E), KARCHMER, SILVERMAN, RIVKIND >from Vilna
ENTE >from Przemysl, Poland
TROPP >from Galicia
GOLDNER >from Romania


Re: Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

Lifshitz-Krams Anne
 

This question has already been often discussed on this forum, and as I
explained in the paper I published in Avotaynu, the sociological answer is :
it depends on how you define "family" (biologicaly or socialy).
There is also a technical answer : my genealogical software allows
me, for each child, to indicate if he/she is legitimate or not, adopted
etc..., and even to comment. I don't know if it is the case with other
softwares.
As long as I have included adopted children in my database, I can choose to
print trees with or without them, - or with a special sign or color to
indicate who is illegitimate or who is adopted - according to the purpose of
each tree (social document or biological document).
You can also choose to show who is carrier of a genetical desease if you are
interested in genetics or who is Jewish if you are interested by religion,
or who works in fur industry if you are interested in occupations....
*but the choice is yours * and no one else can decide.
Anne Lifshitz-Krams

Benjamin Karliner < benkarliner@juno.com >

Is it acceptable practice to include a blood relative's adopted child in
one's family tree? I would appreciate any insight on this matter >from our
fellow Genners.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Treatment of adopted children in family trees #general

Lifshitz-Krams Anne
 

This question has already been often discussed on this forum, and as I
explained in the paper I published in Avotaynu, the sociological answer is :
it depends on how you define "family" (biologicaly or socialy).
There is also a technical answer : my genealogical software allows
me, for each child, to indicate if he/she is legitimate or not, adopted
etc..., and even to comment. I don't know if it is the case with other
softwares.
As long as I have included adopted children in my database, I can choose to
print trees with or without them, - or with a special sign or color to
indicate who is illegitimate or who is adopted - according to the purpose of
each tree (social document or biological document).
You can also choose to show who is carrier of a genetical desease if you are
interested in genetics or who is Jewish if you are interested by religion,
or who works in fur industry if you are interested in occupations....
*but the choice is yours * and no one else can decide.
Anne Lifshitz-Krams

Benjamin Karliner < benkarliner@juno.com >

Is it acceptable practice to include a blood relative's adopted child in
one's family tree? I would appreciate any insight on this matter >from our
fellow Genners.


searching for family in Birhar and Pecs #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
 

Sometimes an individual doesn't have the facilities to send a message in
"plain text"
format, but the message itself is compelling and should be distributed. In a
case like
that I copy the message and send it to H-sig. It is a laborious task.
Therefore, I ask that you please send all posting to H-sig in "plain text"
format only. LS


My maternal great grandmother's maiden name was Gelman Rozalia.

she came >from a small village in Bihar megye(Csokmo) not far
from Szeghalom.
My uncle's name was Friedman but he changed it when he came
to Israel.I know he had a few sisters who came to the US before
the war.He was >from Pecs and previously >from a small village
called Lengyeltoti.
Does any of the above ring a bell?
regards,
Margalit (Mocsari)Modai: modai@bezeqint.net.il
Israel
searching for:Mocsari >from Gyor or Budapest
Fohn >from Bihar county or anywhere
Fradis >from Ternopol


Hungary SIG #Hungary searching for family in Birhar and Pecs #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <Lmagyar@...>
 

Sometimes an individual doesn't have the facilities to send a message in
"plain text"
format, but the message itself is compelling and should be distributed. In a
case like
that I copy the message and send it to H-sig. It is a laborious task.
Therefore, I ask that you please send all posting to H-sig in "plain text"
format only. LS


My maternal great grandmother's maiden name was Gelman Rozalia.

she came >from a small village in Bihar megye(Csokmo) not far
from Szeghalom.
My uncle's name was Friedman but he changed it when he came
to Israel.I know he had a few sisters who came to the US before
the war.He was >from Pecs and previously >from a small village
called Lengyeltoti.
Does any of the above ring a bell?
regards,
Margalit (Mocsari)Modai: modai@bezeqint.net.il
Israel
searching for:Mocsari >from Gyor or Budapest
Fohn >from Bihar county or anywhere
Fradis >from Ternopol


Re: Name Chace #general

Ury Link <uryl@...>
 

Dear Genners,

Ilya Zeldes asked:
I have a record for a male person >from Vitebsk, Russia, whose first name was
Chace (I think, it was pronounced as Kh-a-s-e). I presume it's an Yiddish
name. Kaganoff lists Chase, but gives no explanation. Beider is not
available locally, so I was unable to check it out. What is the Hebrew,
Russian and English equivalent of this name? What it means? Any suggestions? >>


The name is listed in some divorce books as : Kashe ( Kuf - Alef - Shin -
Alef),also is a name Kashina (Kuf - Alef - Shin - Nun- - Alef) and Kusha (
Kuf - Vav - Shin - Alef). Mr.Alexander Beider give the explanation: " that
it can get out >from the given name Kaza (Kashe in Yiddish),this name seems
to be Polish hypocoristic form of some given name beginning with Ka" But Mr
Beider don't give any sample to the Ka.

It can also ,and this is my opinion, that the name is derived >from the name
Krasa (Kuf - Reish - Samech - Alef) .Elazar Mintz in his book "Get Mesudar"
give the explanation that the name Krasa is derived >from the Greek word
Grace (Grazia in Latin)and it mean beautiful. It can that this name is
coming to Eastern Europe through Italy, Spain, South France and Germany but
I don't find any evidence for this until know. In this case if I am right it
can happened that the hard letter Reish is disappear and we get the name
Kasha or Kashe. Another possibility is that the name is derived >from the
Yiddish (or Polish or perhaps Russian)) word Katshke ,a name that also is
finding in divorce books and it mean I think a bird or a duck .In this case
the T and the K are disappear.

All the 3 possibility's are plausible for me. If it is derived >from Krasa
than is the Hebrew "equivalent" Yafa and if it is coming >from Katshke than
it is the "equivalent" Zipora.

All what I write is only my opinion and pleas don't hang me if I am wrong.
Ury Link
Amsterdam
Holland


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re:Name Chace #general

Ury Link <uryl@...>
 

Dear Genners,

Ilya Zeldes asked:
I have a record for a male person >from Vitebsk, Russia, whose first name was
Chace (I think, it was pronounced as Kh-a-s-e). I presume it's an Yiddish
name. Kaganoff lists Chase, but gives no explanation. Beider is not
available locally, so I was unable to check it out. What is the Hebrew,
Russian and English equivalent of this name? What it means? Any suggestions? >>


The name is listed in some divorce books as : Kashe ( Kuf - Alef - Shin -
Alef),also is a name Kashina (Kuf - Alef - Shin - Nun- - Alef) and Kusha (
Kuf - Vav - Shin - Alef). Mr.Alexander Beider give the explanation: " that
it can get out >from the given name Kaza (Kashe in Yiddish),this name seems
to be Polish hypocoristic form of some given name beginning with Ka" But Mr
Beider don't give any sample to the Ka.

It can also ,and this is my opinion, that the name is derived >from the name
Krasa (Kuf - Reish - Samech - Alef) .Elazar Mintz in his book "Get Mesudar"
give the explanation that the name Krasa is derived >from the Greek word
Grace (Grazia in Latin)and it mean beautiful. It can that this name is
coming to Eastern Europe through Italy, Spain, South France and Germany but
I don't find any evidence for this until know. In this case if I am right it
can happened that the hard letter Reish is disappear and we get the name
Kasha or Kashe. Another possibility is that the name is derived >from the
Yiddish (or Polish or perhaps Russian)) word Katshke ,a name that also is
finding in divorce books and it mean I think a bird or a duck .In this case
the T and the K are disappear.

All the 3 possibility's are plausible for me. If it is derived >from Krasa
than is the Hebrew "equivalent" Yafa and if it is coming >from Katshke than
it is the "equivalent" Zipora.

All what I write is only my opinion and pleas don't hang me if I am wrong.
Ury Link
Amsterdam
Holland