Date   

Re: Jewish Female Given Name "Heitzel" #general

Bud484BG@...
 

I would like to thank all of you kind people who responded to my posting
on JewishGen for information on the name Heitzel, even though I still
don't have a clue as to any other deriviation of this name. This name
appears as a signature in a letter >from Kiev, written in Yiddish and
addressed to my mother, as your sister. The name Heitzel, was never
mentioned by my mother as one of her sister's names. Since I do not read
Yiddish, this letter and the name was translated for me by one of our
JewishGenner professional translators.

After two postings, I guess I'll close this thread now.......

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California


Re: Stretton / Stretham cemetery London #general

robert.gleek <robert.gleek@...>
 

Dear Mike,
Streatham Cemetery is in South London.
It's the only cemetery I haven't been to because it's such a bugger to get
to (unless you live in South London!)
The cemetery's phone number is 44 20 8 764 1566 if that's any use to you.
Good Luck!
Daniel Gleek

Mike Ross <nister@cygnus.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

Does anyone live near or have access to the records of Stretton or
Stretham cemetery south of London. Please contact me


ROSENFELD in Mostiska #general

Solomon Schlussel <solschlussel@...>
 

Does any body have any information about the Rabbinical family Rosenfeld
in the town of Mostiska\Mostyska.

Solomon Schlussel
solschlussel@juno.com


Re: Zhitomer testimonies at Yad V'Shem #ukraine

JRothen318@...
 

In a message dated 11/6/00 11:27:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gildak@zahav.net.il writes:

<<
The testimonies *might* be in Hebrew or Yiddish. Do you read either? >>

If I have any problem with either language I can get it translated easily
enough.

Joseph Rothenberg
Belle Harbor, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish Female Given Name "Heitzel" #general

Bud484BG@...
 

I would like to thank all of you kind people who responded to my posting
on JewishGen for information on the name Heitzel, even though I still
don't have a clue as to any other deriviation of this name. This name
appears as a signature in a letter >from Kiev, written in Yiddish and
addressed to my mother, as your sister. The name Heitzel, was never
mentioned by my mother as one of her sister's names. Since I do not read
Yiddish, this letter and the name was translated for me by one of our
JewishGenner professional translators.

After two postings, I guess I'll close this thread now.......

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Stretton / Stretham cemetery London #general

robert.gleek <robert.gleek@...>
 

Dear Mike,
Streatham Cemetery is in South London.
It's the only cemetery I haven't been to because it's such a bugger to get
to (unless you live in South London!)
The cemetery's phone number is 44 20 8 764 1566 if that's any use to you.
Good Luck!
Daniel Gleek

Mike Ross <nister@cygnus.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

Does anyone live near or have access to the records of Stretton or
Stretham cemetery south of London. Please contact me


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ROSENFELD in Mostiska #general

Solomon Schlussel <solschlussel@...>
 

Does any body have any information about the Rabbinical family Rosenfeld
in the town of Mostiska\Mostyska.

Solomon Schlussel
solschlussel@juno.com


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Zhitomer testimonies at Yad V'Shem #ukraine

JRothen318@...
 

In a message dated 11/6/00 11:27:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gildak@zahav.net.il writes:

<<
The testimonies *might* be in Hebrew or Yiddish. Do you read either? >>

If I have any problem with either language I can get it translated easily
enough.

Joseph Rothenberg
Belle Harbor, New York


mandate era death certificates in Israel #ukraine

SRivkin742@...
 

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution.

Both my great great grandparents died in Israel in 1924 and the other in
1925. Its my understanding that these mandate era death certificates were
in English. Under the British the only death certificate copy I can get
from Israel is an <extract> >from the Ministry of Religious Affairs who
issues such certificates. I believe this might be all they have access to -
but one Rabbi said by writing he was able to get a small bit of additional
info. They issue these certificates in Hebrew.

I want a photocopy of the orginal certificate which 1] is in English and
2] it is said they contain additional info often such as a]last address
and b] perhaps names of parents.

Despite numerous requests - even a letter in English and hebrew - they
still just send the hebrew short extract - this has been going on for
several years

I made inquiries with 2 of the JGS in Israel via email - heard back >from
1 of them, then that was the end of it - so I guess they dropped it - it
also was some time back.

The same Rabbi mentioned above living in Israel said he too experienced
these problems and said he had heard a rumour that the Ministry of
Statistics has the orginals and they are restricted >from public access.

I suspect the Ministry of Religious Affairs has microfilm copies but
issues their certificates >from info on a computerized extraction of info.
Anyone have connections to find out more about this? And or is there a way
to get the orginal info? - not the extract. This is all very frustrating.

Shalom,
Steve Rivkin


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine mandate era death certificates in Israel #ukraine

SRivkin742@...
 

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and found a solution.

Both my great great grandparents died in Israel in 1924 and the other in
1925. Its my understanding that these mandate era death certificates were
in English. Under the British the only death certificate copy I can get
from Israel is an <extract> >from the Ministry of Religious Affairs who
issues such certificates. I believe this might be all they have access to -
but one Rabbi said by writing he was able to get a small bit of additional
info. They issue these certificates in Hebrew.

I want a photocopy of the orginal certificate which 1] is in English and
2] it is said they contain additional info often such as a]last address
and b] perhaps names of parents.

Despite numerous requests - even a letter in English and hebrew - they
still just send the hebrew short extract - this has been going on for
several years

I made inquiries with 2 of the JGS in Israel via email - heard back >from
1 of them, then that was the end of it - so I guess they dropped it - it
also was some time back.

The same Rabbi mentioned above living in Israel said he too experienced
these problems and said he had heard a rumour that the Ministry of
Statistics has the orginals and they are restricted >from public access.

I suspect the Ministry of Religious Affairs has microfilm copies but
issues their certificates >from info on a computerized extraction of info.
Anyone have connections to find out more about this? And or is there a way
to get the orginal info? - not the extract. This is all very frustrating.

Shalom,
Steve Rivkin


Fall issue of AVOTAYNU #general

Gary Mokotoff <mokotoff@...>
 

Books of Residence as a genelaogical resource are described
in great detail in three articles in the Fall issue of
AVOTAYNU which will be in the mail this week. As noted in
one article in the issue, "the permanent place of residence
is the place where a particular person belongs, where he
considers himself as residing even if living in a different
locality. The concept is similar to the modern concept of
nationality, citizenship in a particular country no matter
where one is living." Polish books of residence include for
each person: name, names of parents, date and place of
birth, marital status, official place of residence, means of
support, religion, social status and previous residence.
Austrian records include: given and family names, current
address, position or occupation, place and country of birth,
age, religion, single or married or widowed, names and ages
of spouse and children. How to use these registers and how
to access them are described in the AVOTAYNU articles.

Jewish genealogical research in Florida, Belarus, Moldova
and Ukraine are some of the other topics covered in the Fall
issue of AVOTAYNU. Titles of yet other articles include:
Report on Brilling Collection in Frankfurt; The Russian
National Census of 1897; Can Jewish Genealogists
Successfully Research 18th-Century Poland?; Some Belarus
Records in Vilnius Archives; New Ukrainian Jewish Records at
the Family History Library; Selected Translation of Name
Lists and Revisions >from the Dnepropetrovsk Archives;
History Book Illuminates Jewish Life in Poland; Tips on
Translating Entries >from Slownik Geograficzny; New Resources
at the Diaspora Research Institute; Major London Record
Offices for 2001 Conference; Yes, Lobby for Open Access to
Archives--But Why Not in the U.S. Too?; Project Brings
Genealogy into the Jewish Schools of Toronto; Holocaust-era
Asset Registers as a Source of Genealogical Information;
Braude Beginnings.

Gary Mokotoff, Publisher
AVOTAYNU


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Fall issue of AVOTAYNU #general

Gary Mokotoff <mokotoff@...>
 

Books of Residence as a genelaogical resource are described
in great detail in three articles in the Fall issue of
AVOTAYNU which will be in the mail this week. As noted in
one article in the issue, "the permanent place of residence
is the place where a particular person belongs, where he
considers himself as residing even if living in a different
locality. The concept is similar to the modern concept of
nationality, citizenship in a particular country no matter
where one is living." Polish books of residence include for
each person: name, names of parents, date and place of
birth, marital status, official place of residence, means of
support, religion, social status and previous residence.
Austrian records include: given and family names, current
address, position or occupation, place and country of birth,
age, religion, single or married or widowed, names and ages
of spouse and children. How to use these registers and how
to access them are described in the AVOTAYNU articles.

Jewish genealogical research in Florida, Belarus, Moldova
and Ukraine are some of the other topics covered in the Fall
issue of AVOTAYNU. Titles of yet other articles include:
Report on Brilling Collection in Frankfurt; The Russian
National Census of 1897; Can Jewish Genealogists
Successfully Research 18th-Century Poland?; Some Belarus
Records in Vilnius Archives; New Ukrainian Jewish Records at
the Family History Library; Selected Translation of Name
Lists and Revisions >from the Dnepropetrovsk Archives;
History Book Illuminates Jewish Life in Poland; Tips on
Translating Entries >from Slownik Geograficzny; New Resources
at the Diaspora Research Institute; Major London Record
Offices for 2001 Conference; Yes, Lobby for Open Access to
Archives--But Why Not in the U.S. Too?; Project Brings
Genealogy into the Jewish Schools of Toronto; Holocaust-era
Asset Registers as a Source of Genealogical Information;
Braude Beginnings.

Gary Mokotoff, Publisher
AVOTAYNU


November 20, 2000 Meeting of JGSLA #general

Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...>
 

The Jewish Genealogy Society of Los Angeles (JGSLA) presents a program on:
Five Generations in Shanghai: The Jewish Communities of China.
The speaker is Ester Benjamen Shifren, artist, musician and writer.

Ms. Shifren was born in China to a family that had flourished in Shanghai
for five generations. They were interned by the Japanese in WWII and in the
Communist era, were forced to relocate to Hong Kong. After immigrating to
Israel, Ester moved to South Africa and later, to Los Angeles. Ms. Shifren
has spoken to numerous groups about the history of the Jewish community in
China.

Jews came to China over the centuries to trade and to escape the upheavals
in other parts of the world. This lecture will discuss the Kaifeng Jews,
who came along the Silk Road as traders in the 8th and 9th Centuries; the
mostly Sephardic families who came >from India to Iraq and established
business empires in Shanghai in the 19th Century; the Russian Jews, who
came to China to escape the Bolshevik Revolution in the early 20th
Century; and finally, the refugees >from Nazi Germany who found sanctuary
in Shanghai when all other doors were closed.

Event Date & Time: Monday, November 20, 2000 7:30-9:30 PM
Location: Skirball Cultural Center, Haas Conference Center
2701 N. Sepulveda Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90049

Fee: none: Non-members welcome

For more information on the JGSLA visit our website at:
http:www.JGSLA.org

Jan Meisels Allen
Publicity Chairperson, JGSLA
Agoura Hills, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen November 20, 2000 Meeting of JGSLA #general

Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...>
 

The Jewish Genealogy Society of Los Angeles (JGSLA) presents a program on:
Five Generations in Shanghai: The Jewish Communities of China.
The speaker is Ester Benjamen Shifren, artist, musician and writer.

Ms. Shifren was born in China to a family that had flourished in Shanghai
for five generations. They were interned by the Japanese in WWII and in the
Communist era, were forced to relocate to Hong Kong. After immigrating to
Israel, Ester moved to South Africa and later, to Los Angeles. Ms. Shifren
has spoken to numerous groups about the history of the Jewish community in
China.

Jews came to China over the centuries to trade and to escape the upheavals
in other parts of the world. This lecture will discuss the Kaifeng Jews,
who came along the Silk Road as traders in the 8th and 9th Centuries; the
mostly Sephardic families who came >from India to Iraq and established
business empires in Shanghai in the 19th Century; the Russian Jews, who
came to China to escape the Bolshevik Revolution in the early 20th
Century; and finally, the refugees >from Nazi Germany who found sanctuary
in Shanghai when all other doors were closed.

Event Date & Time: Monday, November 20, 2000 7:30-9:30 PM
Location: Skirball Cultural Center, Haas Conference Center
2701 N. Sepulveda Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90049

Fee: none: Non-members welcome

For more information on the JGSLA visit our website at:
http:www.JGSLA.org

Jan Meisels Allen
Publicity Chairperson, JGSLA
Agoura Hills, CA


JFRA - Tel Aviv - Sunday, Nov. 12 meeting #general

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

The Jewish Family Research Association (JFRA) invites all
Genners to attend what will surely be a most interesting
presentation.

We are pleased to welcome Dr. Benyamin Lukin.

For more information, contact either
Aviva Neeman <aneeman@netvision.net.il>,
or myself <dardasht@barak-online.net>.

DATE: Sunday, November 12, 2000
TIME: Forum: 6:45 pm, Lecture (Hebrew) 7:30 pm
PLACE: Matnas Neve Eliezer, 6 Sheshet HaYamim St., Tel Aviv.
ADMISSION: JFRA members, NIS 10; others, NIS 15.

SPEAKER: DR. BENYAMIN LUKIN
Archivist-historian and Russian Department head,
Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People,
Jerusalem
TOPIC: "Searches for roots of Belarussian Jews in historical
documentation kept at the Central Archives for the history
of the Jewish People."
He will also show slides of his recent trip to Belarus.

Born in 1951 in now-St. Petersburg, he emigrated to Israel
in 1990, after studying Jewish history and ethnology at the
Jewish History Seminar/Jewish University, Leningrad. Later, he
studied Jewish Art Documenting, Center for Jewish Art, at Hebrew
University, Jerusalem.

A researcher, lecturer and academic supervisor at
the Jewish History Seminar, he participated in and organized
trips to former shtetls in the Ukraine, Belarus and
Moldova and continues to make such research trips in connection
with his work and research. Additionally, he has researched and
written articles for Russian encyclopedias, historical
commissions and other projects.

A partial publication list: Jewish history in the Leningrad
Archives, Jewish scholarly life in Leningrad in the mid-1920s,
discovering and documentation of Jewish art in Eastern
Europe, the Jewish Cemetery of St. Petersburg, Israeli archives
with material on Russian Jewish History and more.

Co-curator of the Israel Museum exhibit "Back to the Shtetl,"
and its accompanying slideshow, he participated in a film on
Jewish folk culture for Israel Educational Television, and
is managing editor/co-author of the Historical Guide series, "100
Shtetls of the Ukraine," Vol. 1-1997, Supplement-1998 and Vol.
2-2000.

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
Tel Aviv
dardasht@barak-online.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JFRA - Tel Aviv - Sunday, Nov. 12 meeting #general

Schelly Dardashti <dardasht@...>
 

The Jewish Family Research Association (JFRA) invites all
Genners to attend what will surely be a most interesting
presentation.

We are pleased to welcome Dr. Benyamin Lukin.

For more information, contact either
Aviva Neeman <aneeman@netvision.net.il>,
or myself <dardasht@barak-online.net>.

DATE: Sunday, November 12, 2000
TIME: Forum: 6:45 pm, Lecture (Hebrew) 7:30 pm
PLACE: Matnas Neve Eliezer, 6 Sheshet HaYamim St., Tel Aviv.
ADMISSION: JFRA members, NIS 10; others, NIS 15.

SPEAKER: DR. BENYAMIN LUKIN
Archivist-historian and Russian Department head,
Central Archives for the History of the Jewish People,
Jerusalem
TOPIC: "Searches for roots of Belarussian Jews in historical
documentation kept at the Central Archives for the history
of the Jewish People."
He will also show slides of his recent trip to Belarus.

Born in 1951 in now-St. Petersburg, he emigrated to Israel
in 1990, after studying Jewish history and ethnology at the
Jewish History Seminar/Jewish University, Leningrad. Later, he
studied Jewish Art Documenting, Center for Jewish Art, at Hebrew
University, Jerusalem.

A researcher, lecturer and academic supervisor at
the Jewish History Seminar, he participated in and organized
trips to former shtetls in the Ukraine, Belarus and
Moldova and continues to make such research trips in connection
with his work and research. Additionally, he has researched and
written articles for Russian encyclopedias, historical
commissions and other projects.

A partial publication list: Jewish history in the Leningrad
Archives, Jewish scholarly life in Leningrad in the mid-1920s,
discovering and documentation of Jewish art in Eastern
Europe, the Jewish Cemetery of St. Petersburg, Israeli archives
with material on Russian Jewish History and more.

Co-curator of the Israel Museum exhibit "Back to the Shtetl,"
and its accompanying slideshow, he participated in a film on
Jewish folk culture for Israel Educational Television, and
is managing editor/co-author of the Historical Guide series, "100
Shtetls of the Ukraine," Vol. 1-1997, Supplement-1998 and Vol.
2-2000.

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
Tel Aviv
dardasht@barak-online.net


Re: Tax Census from Polonnoye #ukraine

SBernst579@...
 

In a message dated 11/6/00 10:01:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Dave SANDLER writes:

<< have you checked the tax census records for Polonnoye 1858 >>

Thanks for the answer. Where can I find that tax record? Can I assume
that your SANDLER's are the ones listed for Polonnoye? Have you seen
the photos and travel document I donated to the Polonnoye SIG web page?

Stu


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Tax Census from Polonnoye #ukraine

SBernst579@...
 

In a message dated 11/6/00 10:01:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Dave SANDLER writes:

<< have you checked the tax census records for Polonnoye 1858 >>

Thanks for the answer. Where can I find that tax record? Can I assume
that your SANDLER's are the ones listed for Polonnoye? Have you seen
the photos and travel document I donated to the Polonnoye SIG web page?

Stu


Re: Transliteration Questions #yizkorbooks

ROBERT WEISS
 

In a message dated 11/6/00 8:11:42 AM, Ron Doctor writes:

<<Several months ago there was some good discussion of transliteration from
Yiddish to English. I don't recall that any conclusions were reached, and
now that my Kremenets translation team is working, I'm faced with some
transliteration problems.

Our Yizkor Books each have two sections, one in Hebrew and one in Yiddish.
We are trying to follow the YIVO transliteration scheme for Yiddish, but it
looks like some deviations may be advisable. I'd like your views on these:>>

***I have faced similar problems in the transliterations I have done. I too=20
have consciously deviated >from the published standards to better reflect=20
current American usage, fully aware that three brothers could come to these=20
shores and end up with three different versions of their common surname. A=20
case in point is a citizenship document I possess for an aunt where her name=
=20
(Lifschitz) was spelled three different ways by relatives who witnessed tha=20
document. By the way, the following are my personal opinions based on my ear=
=20
for languages and they are all arguable.***

<<1. Double consonants. The YIVO Guide on JewishGen says don't use double
consonants. So, do we standardize on "Yidish" or go with common usage,
"Yiddish"? In names, do we transliterate aleph-tet-yud-nun-gimel-resh as
"Etinger", Etingr", "Ettinger", or "Ettingr"? The same questions arise for
Hebrew transliteration.>>

With respect to double consonants, I will double them when:
pronounciation of the name becomes more precise or less ambiguous by the=
=20
doubling of the letter;
doubling of the letter corresponds to a unique letter or accented letter=
=20
in another language;
doubling of a letter conforms better with common English or American=20
useage.
For example my name "Weiss" is pronounced with a hard "s" so I double the=20
letter even though there is only one "samakh". Otherwise, with a single "s"=20
one would be tempted to pronounce it with a soft "s" such as in the word=20
"wise". My wife's mother's maiden name was Plis'ner in Europe, with an=20
accented "s" in Polish. Relatives here in the U.S. spell their names Plisner=
=20
(ignoring the accent, but changing the pronounciation), Plissner (doubling=20
the "s" to indicate that it is an accented letter) or Plishner/Pleshner=20
(indicating the actual pronounciation of the accented letter). I would favor=
=20
one of the latter two versions. And in your illustrative case I would prefer=
=20
Ettinger as being the most common American spelling. Note that even in the=20
Yiddish (common usage) the "ayin" is an optional letter, and sometimes the=20
same word is spelled with and without. Common American usage would put it in=
=20
to aid in pronouncing the last syllable as "ger" or "er" rather than "gr=97"=
.


<<2. Do we apply common usage (whatever that is) to names, or do we use the
YIVO transliteration scheme? For example, in the name
tet-yud-yud-tet-shin-resh, is the double-yud transliterated to "ey", "ay",
or "ei"? Should the name be written "Teytsher", "Taytsher", or "Teitsher"?
Should the final "e" be dropped, "Teytshr" as recommended in the JewishGen
Yiddish transliteration Infofile?>>

***I love this question. First, let me say that I prefer "Teitsher" or even=20
"Teicher". Some of my preferences are dependent on what the language being=20
translated >from are. If we were coming >from a Russian-language record to=20
English, then the "ey" and "ay" might be appropriate, since they allow goin=
g=20
back >from the English to the unique Russian letter with less ambiguity. But=20
in the case you give, where we are coming directly >from Yiddish to English=20
without the intervening Russian, I would prefer "ei". Also, since Yiddish=20
does not have a single letter with the "ch" sound (as in church), the sound=20
is constructed with a "tet" and a "shin". English uses "ch" for this sound.=20
Note that I use "ch" SOLELY for this sound, and NEVER for the gutteral "khet=
"=20
or "khaf". And as for the inclusion of the final "e" see my comments for ite=
m=20
1.***

<<3. How do we transliterate "het"? Should it be "kh" (re YIVO) or "ch"? Is=20=
it
different in Hebrew and in Yiddish? Example, is "het-yud-yud-shlos mem",
Khaym, Kheym, Khaim, Chaym, Cheym, or Chaim?>>

***I always use "kh". There will never, then, be a confusion between the "ch=
"=20
and the "kh" sounds. Now we get into some controversy. There is a grammatica=
l=20
difference between "khet" and "khaf", but that resides in the realm of the=20
semanticists. In common usage their pronounciation is so similar that=20
distinctions in transliteration of names may not be productive. We don't=20
commonly have an "h" with a subdot on computer keyboards. It is interesting=20
that my preferred spelling of the name above is not on your menu of choices,=
=20
e.i.: "Khayim" in spite of my stated preference in 2.***

<<4. Is the initial "het." transliterated to Ch., C., Kh., or K.?>>

***Always "Kh", never "Ch".***

<<5. Should a final yud in a name be transliterated as "i" or "y". Should a
"vet" be transliterated as "v" or "w". For example, is the name
"tet-vet-resh-samekh-kof-yud" Hebrew or Yiddish? Is the name Twersky,
Twerski, Tversky, or Tverski?>>
=20
***A general rule I have adopted, which is honored many times in its=20
breaking, is that a "double-vav" is transliterated >from Yiddish as a "w" and=
=20
a "single-vav" as a "v". An example is my surname "vav-vav-yud-yud-samakh"=20
which we spell Weiss (illustrating three of my rules of preference above). W=
e=20
run into trouble, however when this same name is transliterated into Hebrew,=
=20
as was done when my daughter made "aliyah", and Weiss became =20
"vav-yud-yud-samakh". Looking up the name "vav-vav-yud-yud-samakh" in the=20
Israeli telephone book we are sent to "vav-yud-yud-samakh". So rules differ=
=20
between Hebrew and Yiddish. One of my most common exceptions is in=20
transliterating "vav-vav-ayin-lamed-vav-vav-ayin-lamed". I can't bring mysel=
f=20
to write "Welwel" and always use "Velvel" instead. As for a final "i" or "y"=
=20
I am guided by where the record was made. Generally if in Poland I use "i"=20
and if in Russia I use "y" or "iy".***

<<6. How would you transliterate the name, ayin-kof-yud-vet-aleph
zayin-yud-gimel-resh. One of my translators presented it as Akiva Zeiger.
But if I stick to the "rules", it looks like Ekiva Ziger (or Zigr). Or,
another name, resh-vav-zayin-nun-tet-lamed. Is this Rosenthal, Rozental, or
Ruzntal?>>

***We must pick the correct rules to stick to. Hebrew names (usually=20
Biblical, and more recently modern Hebrew) do not take Yiddish rules of=20
transliteration. They are usually spelled in their Hebrew form and must be=20
transliterated using rules of Hebrew transliteration. Therefore the Biblical=
=20
name "yud-ayin-kuf-vet" is clearly "Yaakov" and not "Yeko" which we might ge=
t=20
by using the Yiddish rules. By the same token "ayin-kof-yud-vet-aleph" would=
=20
be "Akiva". I would transliterate the illustrious Rabbi's name as "Zeiger",=20
"Zaiger" or "Ziger" depending on whether the vowel under the aleph is a=20
"tzayray", "patakh" or a "khirik", and run out to see what spelling is=20
commonly used by his biographers. My preference for the other name is=20
"Rozental".***

<<If these questions have been answered previously, or if somehow, I have
missed some set of Yizkor Book Project standards that answer these
questions, I apologize. I have looked at various "interpretations" of the
YIVO standards and still these questions arise.>>

***I am currently in Israel bonding with a new grandson, so I do not have=20
references available to me, but I'd like to point you to a LitvakSIG=20
databese, The Kovne Cemetery Database, which has, in its introduction, some=20
more comments I wrote on transliteration "rules". Well, we haven't resolved=20
anything, but I hope my comments are useful to you, even if you don't agree=20
with them. One more comment. I have, at home, an interesting chart I found i=
n=20
a "learn Russian" book which summarizes the THREE different "standards" for=20
transliterating >from Russian to English. If I remember correctly, they are=20
the Library of Congress, the Literary, and the Cartographers standards. I=20
prefer the last for our application.***

Bob Weiss, usually in Northridge, CA, currently in Bat Yam, Israel.
RWeissJGS@aol.com


Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks Re: Transliteration Questions #yizkorbooks

ROBERT WEISS
 

In a message dated 11/6/00 8:11:42 AM, Ron Doctor writes:

<<Several months ago there was some good discussion of transliteration from
Yiddish to English. I don't recall that any conclusions were reached, and
now that my Kremenets translation team is working, I'm faced with some
transliteration problems.

Our Yizkor Books each have two sections, one in Hebrew and one in Yiddish.
We are trying to follow the YIVO transliteration scheme for Yiddish, but it
looks like some deviations may be advisable. I'd like your views on these:>>

***I have faced similar problems in the transliterations I have done. I too=20
have consciously deviated >from the published standards to better reflect=20
current American usage, fully aware that three brothers could come to these=20
shores and end up with three different versions of their common surname. A=20
case in point is a citizenship document I possess for an aunt where her name=
=20
(Lifschitz) was spelled three different ways by relatives who witnessed tha=20
document. By the way, the following are my personal opinions based on my ear=
=20
for languages and they are all arguable.***

<<1. Double consonants. The YIVO Guide on JewishGen says don't use double
consonants. So, do we standardize on "Yidish" or go with common usage,
"Yiddish"? In names, do we transliterate aleph-tet-yud-nun-gimel-resh as
"Etinger", Etingr", "Ettinger", or "Ettingr"? The same questions arise for
Hebrew transliteration.>>

With respect to double consonants, I will double them when:
pronounciation of the name becomes more precise or less ambiguous by the=
=20
doubling of the letter;
doubling of the letter corresponds to a unique letter or accented letter=
=20
in another language;
doubling of a letter conforms better with common English or American=20
useage.
For example my name "Weiss" is pronounced with a hard "s" so I double the=20
letter even though there is only one "samakh". Otherwise, with a single "s"=20
one would be tempted to pronounce it with a soft "s" such as in the word=20
"wise". My wife's mother's maiden name was Plis'ner in Europe, with an=20
accented "s" in Polish. Relatives here in the U.S. spell their names Plisner=
=20
(ignoring the accent, but changing the pronounciation), Plissner (doubling=20
the "s" to indicate that it is an accented letter) or Plishner/Pleshner=20
(indicating the actual pronounciation of the accented letter). I would favor=
=20
one of the latter two versions. And in your illustrative case I would prefer=
=20
Ettinger as being the most common American spelling. Note that even in the=20
Yiddish (common usage) the "ayin" is an optional letter, and sometimes the=20
same word is spelled with and without. Common American usage would put it in=
=20
to aid in pronouncing the last syllable as "ger" or "er" rather than "gr=97"=
.


<<2. Do we apply common usage (whatever that is) to names, or do we use the
YIVO transliteration scheme? For example, in the name
tet-yud-yud-tet-shin-resh, is the double-yud transliterated to "ey", "ay",
or "ei"? Should the name be written "Teytsher", "Taytsher", or "Teitsher"?
Should the final "e" be dropped, "Teytshr" as recommended in the JewishGen
Yiddish transliteration Infofile?>>

***I love this question. First, let me say that I prefer "Teitsher" or even=20
"Teicher". Some of my preferences are dependent on what the language being=20
translated >from are. If we were coming >from a Russian-language record to=20
English, then the "ey" and "ay" might be appropriate, since they allow goin=
g=20
back >from the English to the unique Russian letter with less ambiguity. But=20
in the case you give, where we are coming directly >from Yiddish to English=20
without the intervening Russian, I would prefer "ei". Also, since Yiddish=20
does not have a single letter with the "ch" sound (as in church), the sound=20
is constructed with a "tet" and a "shin". English uses "ch" for this sound.=20
Note that I use "ch" SOLELY for this sound, and NEVER for the gutteral "khet=
"=20
or "khaf". And as for the inclusion of the final "e" see my comments for ite=
m=20
1.***

<<3. How do we transliterate "het"? Should it be "kh" (re YIVO) or "ch"? Is=20=
it
different in Hebrew and in Yiddish? Example, is "het-yud-yud-shlos mem",
Khaym, Kheym, Khaim, Chaym, Cheym, or Chaim?>>

***I always use "kh". There will never, then, be a confusion between the "ch=
"=20
and the "kh" sounds. Now we get into some controversy. There is a grammatica=
l=20
difference between "khet" and "khaf", but that resides in the realm of the=20
semanticists. In common usage their pronounciation is so similar that=20
distinctions in transliteration of names may not be productive. We don't=20
commonly have an "h" with a subdot on computer keyboards. It is interesting=20
that my preferred spelling of the name above is not on your menu of choices,=
=20
e.i.: "Khayim" in spite of my stated preference in 2.***

<<4. Is the initial "het." transliterated to Ch., C., Kh., or K.?>>

***Always "Kh", never "Ch".***

<<5. Should a final yud in a name be transliterated as "i" or "y". Should a
"vet" be transliterated as "v" or "w". For example, is the name
"tet-vet-resh-samekh-kof-yud" Hebrew or Yiddish? Is the name Twersky,
Twerski, Tversky, or Tverski?>>
=20
***A general rule I have adopted, which is honored many times in its=20
breaking, is that a "double-vav" is transliterated >from Yiddish as a "w" and=
=20
a "single-vav" as a "v". An example is my surname "vav-vav-yud-yud-samakh"=20
which we spell Weiss (illustrating three of my rules of preference above). W=
e=20
run into trouble, however when this same name is transliterated into Hebrew,=
=20
as was done when my daughter made "aliyah", and Weiss became =20
"vav-yud-yud-samakh". Looking up the name "vav-vav-yud-yud-samakh" in the=20
Israeli telephone book we are sent to "vav-yud-yud-samakh". So rules differ=
=20
between Hebrew and Yiddish. One of my most common exceptions is in=20
transliterating "vav-vav-ayin-lamed-vav-vav-ayin-lamed". I can't bring mysel=
f=20
to write "Welwel" and always use "Velvel" instead. As for a final "i" or "y"=
=20
I am guided by where the record was made. Generally if in Poland I use "i"=20
and if in Russia I use "y" or "iy".***

<<6. How would you transliterate the name, ayin-kof-yud-vet-aleph
zayin-yud-gimel-resh. One of my translators presented it as Akiva Zeiger.
But if I stick to the "rules", it looks like Ekiva Ziger (or Zigr). Or,
another name, resh-vav-zayin-nun-tet-lamed. Is this Rosenthal, Rozental, or
Ruzntal?>>

***We must pick the correct rules to stick to. Hebrew names (usually=20
Biblical, and more recently modern Hebrew) do not take Yiddish rules of=20
transliteration. They are usually spelled in their Hebrew form and must be=20
transliterated using rules of Hebrew transliteration. Therefore the Biblical=
=20
name "yud-ayin-kuf-vet" is clearly "Yaakov" and not "Yeko" which we might ge=
t=20
by using the Yiddish rules. By the same token "ayin-kof-yud-vet-aleph" would=
=20
be "Akiva". I would transliterate the illustrious Rabbi's name as "Zeiger",=20
"Zaiger" or "Ziger" depending on whether the vowel under the aleph is a=20
"tzayray", "patakh" or a "khirik", and run out to see what spelling is=20
commonly used by his biographers. My preference for the other name is=20
"Rozental".***

<<If these questions have been answered previously, or if somehow, I have
missed some set of Yizkor Book Project standards that answer these
questions, I apologize. I have looked at various "interpretations" of the
YIVO standards and still these questions arise.>>

***I am currently in Israel bonding with a new grandson, so I do not have=20
references available to me, but I'd like to point you to a LitvakSIG=20
databese, The Kovne Cemetery Database, which has, in its introduction, some=20
more comments I wrote on transliteration "rules". Well, we haven't resolved=20
anything, but I hope my comments are useful to you, even if you don't agree=20
with them. One more comment. I have, at home, an interesting chart I found i=
n=20
a "learn Russian" book which summarizes the THREE different "standards" for=20
transliterating >from Russian to English. If I remember correctly, they are=20
the Library of Congress, the Literary, and the Cartographers standards. I=20
prefer the last for our application.***

Bob Weiss, usually in Northridge, CA, currently in Bat Yam, Israel.
RWeissJGS@aol.com