Date   

Ostroleka - IMPORTANT NEWS! #poland

Michael Tobias <Michael@...>
 

I can now safely make this announcement! Moderators, I must apologise
for the length of this post - sorry.

I had been waiting until the latest edition of Landsmen Journal had been
published before announcing anything publicly.

For the group of researchers interested in the Polish town of Ostroleka
(Ostrolenka) progress has been painfully slow at times. This town, 60+
miles North-East of Warsaw, was badly affected in the past by the two
World Wars. Actually it had also suffered in previous battles in the
19th century (the Arc de Triomphe in Paris lists the town because
Napoleon fought a battle there too!). The result is that few, if any,
Jewish vital records survived.

When I started researching my family just over 5 years ago there were NO
known Jewish records for the town.

Then we learned that there were some 20th century records covering the
1917-1936 period (with some gaps). This was good news, but I was unable
to make any connections with the various TOBIASZ and DORFMAN records
located because my family had left the town in the 1880s and we could
not fit the various pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together.

I crossed my fingers and HOPED that one day some earlier records would
appear by magic and answer at least SOME of our questions......

The magic event took place last month! I was in Poland with Stanley
Diamond representing Jewish Records Indexing - Poland at several
meetings with the Polish State Archives. I managed to arrange one free
day for personal research.

Here are my notes of that fateful day:


"Wednesday 27 October 1999

We drove north >from Warsaw (I had slept in <G>) and arrived in Ostroleka
around noon. The manager of the Civil Records Office recognised us
immediately and seemed very happy to see us (we met her last year). She
was most helpful and immediately arranged for all the Jewish registers
to be brought to her private meeting room for us to view them.

But then she hit us with the bomb-shell......

"You never saw this one last year......."

She hadn't known we were coming. We arrived without warning (next time
we should let her know in advance). Last week she decided to do some
cleaning/clearing in the basement. While doing this they found some
things they never knew they had. If we had arrived a week earlier we
would not have seen this. If we had arrived a week later she would have
already sent it away to Warsaw. If she had not decided, on the spur of
the moment, to do some cleaning we would be none the wiser .....

"Ostroleka Jewish Marriage Register 1830-1843" !

This was incredible. 14 years of Jewish marriages. 156 marriages in
all.

Over the course of the next few hours we examined the records and
compiled a rough index (thankfully all years were indexed). Once
checked the data will appear in the JRI-Poland online databases.

The bad news (or is it good?) was that there was only *one* TOBIASZ
record. There were several TOBIER records, which may be connected to us
(they sometimes *sign* Tobias). Perhaps our TOBIASZ family did not live
in Ostroleka at that time. Maybe my g-grandfather Touvye married Keyla
DORFMAN there in 1881 because it was *her* home town and not his. The
TOBIASZ record we found was for Mendel TOBIASZ marrying Syma POKORNA
(my g-g-grandfather Harris TOBIAS married a Rebecca PIKORNA!).

But the DORFMANs were there!

There were several DORFMAN marriages all pointing to the tiny village of
Laskowiec 5 miles away. This is the town where my g-g-grandfather
Szymek DORFMAN was born in 1814. His father's name was Dawid and his
grandfather was Rywan.

It is now almost certain that Szymek DORFMAN married at least twice and
that Keyla was *not* >from his first marriage. Kate's death record in
Glasgow said her parents were Sam DORFMAN and Estera Brenda (Brajna)
MARSLOFF. But here in front of me I was staring at 1836, marriage #1
Szymek DORFMAN, aged 22, son of Dawid Rywanowicz DORFMAN, from
Laskowiec, marrying Gola ZYLBERSZTEJN! Szymek's mother was Rochla
daughter of Srol (we never knew her father before).

Another, older, Szymek DORFMAN >from Laskowiec married in 1834.

A Hana DORFMAN, born 1817, >from Laskowiec, married in 1839.

There were several POKORNA records.

The Mendel TOBIASZ record points to the village of Le(n)g. This is
another small village just across the river Narew >from Laskowiec...... "



If any Ostroleka researchers are interested in learning more about this
discovery please contact me *privately* by email. I estimate that the
surnames listed account for over *half* the 80+ researchers listed in
the JGFF as being interested in the town.

I can let you know what surnames appear in the Register, and perhaps we
can collaborate in doing more extensive research on the records. The
marriage records contain details of the brides and grooms, their
parents, grandparents, mothers' maiden surnames, occupations, towns of
birth and residence.

156 records might not sound a lot for a town whose Jewish population was
several thousand strong for most of the 19th century. BUT these few
records could indeed supply many pieces to our respective jigsaws, and
perhaps the number of jigsaws is about to reduce dramatically....

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael Tobias michael@mtobias.demon.co.uk |
| mtobias@mail.jewishgen.prg |
|Researching : |
| TOBIASZ, DORFMAN in Ostrolenka, Lomza, Nowogrod, Kolno, Myszyniec |
| MAJERKIEWICZ, CYTRON, RUDOWSKI in Checiny, Malogoszcz, Rembiechowa |
| BANKS in Taurage, ZELDEN in Odessa |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


JRI Poland #Poland Ostroleka - IMPORTANT NEWS! #poland

Michael Tobias <Michael@...>
 

I can now safely make this announcement! Moderators, I must apologise
for the length of this post - sorry.

I had been waiting until the latest edition of Landsmen Journal had been
published before announcing anything publicly.

For the group of researchers interested in the Polish town of Ostroleka
(Ostrolenka) progress has been painfully slow at times. This town, 60+
miles North-East of Warsaw, was badly affected in the past by the two
World Wars. Actually it had also suffered in previous battles in the
19th century (the Arc de Triomphe in Paris lists the town because
Napoleon fought a battle there too!). The result is that few, if any,
Jewish vital records survived.

When I started researching my family just over 5 years ago there were NO
known Jewish records for the town.

Then we learned that there were some 20th century records covering the
1917-1936 period (with some gaps). This was good news, but I was unable
to make any connections with the various TOBIASZ and DORFMAN records
located because my family had left the town in the 1880s and we could
not fit the various pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together.

I crossed my fingers and HOPED that one day some earlier records would
appear by magic and answer at least SOME of our questions......

The magic event took place last month! I was in Poland with Stanley
Diamond representing Jewish Records Indexing - Poland at several
meetings with the Polish State Archives. I managed to arrange one free
day for personal research.

Here are my notes of that fateful day:


"Wednesday 27 October 1999

We drove north >from Warsaw (I had slept in <G>) and arrived in Ostroleka
around noon. The manager of the Civil Records Office recognised us
immediately and seemed very happy to see us (we met her last year). She
was most helpful and immediately arranged for all the Jewish registers
to be brought to her private meeting room for us to view them.

But then she hit us with the bomb-shell......

"You never saw this one last year......."

She hadn't known we were coming. We arrived without warning (next time
we should let her know in advance). Last week she decided to do some
cleaning/clearing in the basement. While doing this they found some
things they never knew they had. If we had arrived a week earlier we
would not have seen this. If we had arrived a week later she would have
already sent it away to Warsaw. If she had not decided, on the spur of
the moment, to do some cleaning we would be none the wiser .....

"Ostroleka Jewish Marriage Register 1830-1843" !

This was incredible. 14 years of Jewish marriages. 156 marriages in
all.

Over the course of the next few hours we examined the records and
compiled a rough index (thankfully all years were indexed). Once
checked the data will appear in the JRI-Poland online databases.

The bad news (or is it good?) was that there was only *one* TOBIASZ
record. There were several TOBIER records, which may be connected to us
(they sometimes *sign* Tobias). Perhaps our TOBIASZ family did not live
in Ostroleka at that time. Maybe my g-grandfather Touvye married Keyla
DORFMAN there in 1881 because it was *her* home town and not his. The
TOBIASZ record we found was for Mendel TOBIASZ marrying Syma POKORNA
(my g-g-grandfather Harris TOBIAS married a Rebecca PIKORNA!).

But the DORFMANs were there!

There were several DORFMAN marriages all pointing to the tiny village of
Laskowiec 5 miles away. This is the town where my g-g-grandfather
Szymek DORFMAN was born in 1814. His father's name was Dawid and his
grandfather was Rywan.

It is now almost certain that Szymek DORFMAN married at least twice and
that Keyla was *not* >from his first marriage. Kate's death record in
Glasgow said her parents were Sam DORFMAN and Estera Brenda (Brajna)
MARSLOFF. But here in front of me I was staring at 1836, marriage #1
Szymek DORFMAN, aged 22, son of Dawid Rywanowicz DORFMAN, from
Laskowiec, marrying Gola ZYLBERSZTEJN! Szymek's mother was Rochla
daughter of Srol (we never knew her father before).

Another, older, Szymek DORFMAN >from Laskowiec married in 1834.

A Hana DORFMAN, born 1817, >from Laskowiec, married in 1839.

There were several POKORNA records.

The Mendel TOBIASZ record points to the village of Le(n)g. This is
another small village just across the river Narew >from Laskowiec...... "



If any Ostroleka researchers are interested in learning more about this
discovery please contact me *privately* by email. I estimate that the
surnames listed account for over *half* the 80+ researchers listed in
the JGFF as being interested in the town.

I can let you know what surnames appear in the Register, and perhaps we
can collaborate in doing more extensive research on the records. The
marriage records contain details of the brides and grooms, their
parents, grandparents, mothers' maiden surnames, occupations, towns of
birth and residence.

156 records might not sound a lot for a town whose Jewish population was
several thousand strong for most of the 19th century. BUT these few
records could indeed supply many pieces to our respective jigsaws, and
perhaps the number of jigsaws is about to reduce dramatically....

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael Tobias michael@mtobias.demon.co.uk |
| mtobias@mail.jewishgen.prg |
|Researching : |
| TOBIASZ, DORFMAN in Ostrolenka, Lomza, Nowogrod, Kolno, Myszyniec |
| MAJERKIEWICZ, CYTRON, RUDOWSKI in Checiny, Malogoszcz, Rembiechowa |
| BANKS in Taurage, ZELDEN in Odessa |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Searching: WIDOM, BERGER, PIATIGORSKY & GREENSPAN #general

J. Widome <jwidome@...>
 

If you are researching (or come across) any of these names, I would very
much like to see if we have any information worth sharing:

WIDOM / WIDOMLANSKY, >from around Brest-Litovsk, Belarus
BERGER, >from Poland (Suwalki, Dombroven or Lipsk)
PIATIGORSKY, >from Ukraine (Odessa or Elizavetgrad)
GREENSPAN / GRUNSPAN, >from Nowy Targ, Poland

Please respond by private e-mail to: jwidome@erols.com

Thanks.
J.Widome


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: WIDOM, BERGER, PIATIGORSKY & GREENSPAN #general

J. Widome <jwidome@...>
 

If you are researching (or come across) any of these names, I would very
much like to see if we have any information worth sharing:

WIDOM / WIDOMLANSKY, >from around Brest-Litovsk, Belarus
BERGER, >from Poland (Suwalki, Dombroven or Lipsk)
PIATIGORSKY, >from Ukraine (Odessa or Elizavetgrad)
GREENSPAN / GRUNSPAN, >from Nowy Targ, Poland

Please respond by private e-mail to: jwidome@erols.com

Thanks.
J.Widome


Latvian Death Certificate, Meaning of a Term #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

Eric Ellman asked the meaning of the terms"petty" and "Bourgeois" on a
death certificate. I checked with the Archivists and they said it was the
French term petit not petty and that petit bourgeois referred to what in
German would be a "Burgher" They said he was probably a small merchant and
could have lived in the town or in the country.
Arlene Beare
Latvia SIGUK


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Latvian Death Certificate, Meaning of a Term #general

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

Eric Ellman asked the meaning of the terms"petty" and "Bourgeois" on a
death certificate. I checked with the Archivists and they said it was the
French term petit not petty and that petit bourgeois referred to what in
German would be a "Burgher" They said he was probably a small merchant and
could have lived in the town or in the country.
Arlene Beare
Latvia SIGUK


Re: Information to Share (Plain Text) #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

I will try to reply to some of your questions.
You ask Were people still
registered in a town even after they had moved ?
Yes. They often chose to remain registered in the original shtetl and paid
their taxes there. You defintely need to look beyond the shtetl for further
information. They could also have been in the list because they were
visiting at the time of the census.

Was Tukkum some kind of
seat of government where people would be registered even if they lived in
Sassmacken ?
Not as far as I know.

What was the army like in 1886 ?
Many chose not to go into the army as they were often made to convert and
of course the army took them away >from home.


Would a Jew be able to leave Sassmacken and travel freely to Hamburg ?
Passport were not required and he could have left if he had means to travel.

How did one get to Hamburg back then ? Any idea how long it took ?
The usual route was to leave >from Libau now Liepaja which was the largest
and busiest port.

I'm wondering, have any of you dealt directly with the Latvian government
for records ?
You write to
Mrs I Veinberga
Latvian State Historical Archives
Slokas iela 16
Riga LV-1007
Latvia
You give as much detail as you have about your family and they will do
their best for you. It may take 1-2 months if you have a lot of detail or
longer if they have difficulty finding records. It is well worth writing to
them as they have the documents and you may be able to get copies of
birth,marriage or death records.

My understanding >from Aleksandrs is that the government only
grants limited access to researchers, because they want the business.
They do not encourage Private Researchers as they do need the Business.

You seem to have done a great deal and I am sure the members will find it
helpful reading how you have gone about it.


Arlene Beare
Moderator


My Sassmacken list is at http://www.onelist.com/community/sassmacken








Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Information to Share (Plain Text) #latvia

Arlene Beare <arl@...>
 

I will try to reply to some of your questions.
You ask Were people still
registered in a town even after they had moved ?
Yes. They often chose to remain registered in the original shtetl and paid
their taxes there. You defintely need to look beyond the shtetl for further
information. They could also have been in the list because they were
visiting at the time of the census.

Was Tukkum some kind of
seat of government where people would be registered even if they lived in
Sassmacken ?
Not as far as I know.

What was the army like in 1886 ?
Many chose not to go into the army as they were often made to convert and
of course the army took them away >from home.


Would a Jew be able to leave Sassmacken and travel freely to Hamburg ?
Passport were not required and he could have left if he had means to travel.

How did one get to Hamburg back then ? Any idea how long it took ?
The usual route was to leave >from Libau now Liepaja which was the largest
and busiest port.

I'm wondering, have any of you dealt directly with the Latvian government
for records ?
You write to
Mrs I Veinberga
Latvian State Historical Archives
Slokas iela 16
Riga LV-1007
Latvia
You give as much detail as you have about your family and they will do
their best for you. It may take 1-2 months if you have a lot of detail or
longer if they have difficulty finding records. It is well worth writing to
them as they have the documents and you may be able to get copies of
birth,marriage or death records.

My understanding >from Aleksandrs is that the government only
grants limited access to researchers, because they want the business.
They do not encourage Private Researchers as they do need the Business.

You seem to have done a great deal and I am sure the members will find it
helpful reading how you have gone about it.


Arlene Beare
Moderator


My Sassmacken list is at http://www.onelist.com/community/sassmacken








Czestochowa area of Poland #general

arnold goldberg <arn@...>
 

Can any one suggest where birth,marriage,death records for the Czestochowa,Klobuck,Blahowna area of Poland might be located.The map
location for Klobuck 50.37 N and 15.38 E.Blahowna 50.36N and 15.27E.

I am also trying to find any information regarding a village named
Cisie 50.33N 15.28E. The family names BRATT and KITSBURG >from this area. Have yet to find any reference to these surnames.

Any help would be appreciated/
Arnold Goldberg


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Czestochowa area of Poland #general

arnold goldberg <arn@...>
 

Can any one suggest where birth,marriage,death records for the Czestochowa,Klobuck,Blahowna area of Poland might be located.The map
location for Klobuck 50.37 N and 15.38 E.Blahowna 50.36N and 15.27E.

I am also trying to find any information regarding a village named
Cisie 50.33N 15.28E. The family names BRATT and KITSBURG >from this area. Have yet to find any reference to these surnames.

Any help would be appreciated/
Arnold Goldberg


Re: First Names Gluckel and Keile #general

PJL427@...
 

J Schamroth asked the meaning of Keile. I think this actually refers to
the Yiddish Name Keilah.

One of my daughter's "Hebrew names" is Keilah. Named after one of my
wife's great aunts. When I researched the name, I found that another
meaning is that it may have come >from an Arabic word that means Crown or
Laurel. Her English name is Katherine, (if written in Hebrew letters, it
spells the Aramaic word for Crowns also). Her second Hebrew name (for my
Grandmother) was Atarah which is Hebrew for Crown. Therefore it works
out, like the teaching goes that she has "Three Crowns for a Good Name."

Philip J. Leonard MD
pjl427@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Names Gluckel and Keile #general

PJL427@...
 

J Schamroth asked the meaning of Keile. I think this actually refers to
the Yiddish Name Keilah.

One of my daughter's "Hebrew names" is Keilah. Named after one of my
wife's great aunts. When I researched the name, I found that another
meaning is that it may have come >from an Arabic word that means Crown or
Laurel. Her English name is Katherine, (if written in Hebrew letters, it
spells the Aramaic word for Crowns also). Her second Hebrew name (for my
Grandmother) was Atarah which is Hebrew for Crown. Therefore it works
out, like the teaching goes that she has "Three Crowns for a Good Name."

Philip J. Leonard MD
pjl427@aol.com


(MOERCH / MORK ): Rachelle (STARK) HOMLER, where are you? #general

MBernet@...
 

I am seeking:
Rachelle (STARK) HOMLER
Jewish Gen researcher (#9055)
former e-mail: Jsav316@aol.com

Can anyone give me her current address?

Many thanks

Michael Bernet
New Rochelle, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen (MOERCH / MORK ): Rachelle (STARK) HOMLER, where are you? #general

MBernet@...
 

I am seeking:
Rachelle (STARK) HOMLER
Jewish Gen researcher (#9055)
former e-mail: Jsav316@aol.com

Can anyone give me her current address?

Many thanks

Michael Bernet
New Rochelle, NY


Koronowo\Crone an der Brahe #general

Miriam Margolyes <75342.3217@...>
 

I am looking for information on this town,specifically the LAZARUS family,
who lived there in the 1860s.

I have downloaded a map >from Expedia, but can't make out where this is-nor
when it changed >from a German to a Polish territory. Any info or where to
find info much appreciated. I have found the Cemetery Project info-
that's all. It's near a place called Bydgoszcz & was near Brandenburg
province.


Miriam Margolyes
Santa Monica

searching: RAFFALOVITCH (Raff) Montreal: SHAPIRO (Montreal):
SANDEMAN (UK & South Africa:)GEDALIUS (Berlin): LITTAUER
(Berlin & New York):MICHAELS (London)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Koronowo\Crone an der Brahe #general

Miriam Margolyes <75342.3217@...>
 

I am looking for information on this town,specifically the LAZARUS family,
who lived there in the 1860s.

I have downloaded a map >from Expedia, but can't make out where this is-nor
when it changed >from a German to a Polish territory. Any info or where to
find info much appreciated. I have found the Cemetery Project info-
that's all. It's near a place called Bydgoszcz & was near Brandenburg
province.


Miriam Margolyes
Santa Monica

searching: RAFFALOVITCH (Raff) Montreal: SHAPIRO (Montreal):
SANDEMAN (UK & South Africa:)GEDALIUS (Berlin): LITTAUER
(Berlin & New York):MICHAELS (London)


Re: Red Star Liner SS Friesland, arr NY 1890 #general

Gertrude Singer Ogushwitz <gsogush@...>
 

Steve Axelrath wrote: My grandfather, Samuel AXELROD (AXELROTH) may
have arrived at the Port of New York on March 12, 1890. Morton Allen
directory notes that Red Star Line "Friesland" Antwerp-NY arrived on
that date. . . ."

You need "Passenger Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, NY,
1820-1897. Group M237, Roll #544 (Feb 21 - March 22, 1890.)
This information can be found in "Immigrant & Passenger Arrivals,
A Select Catalog of National Archives Microfilm Publications, 1991",
available >from the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).

Go to http://www.nara.gov/publications/pubindex.html. The booklet sells
for $3.50; instructions for ordering are given on NARA's website where
other usesful indexes of passenger list, census, etc. can also be found.
Go to: http://www.nara.gov/publications/pubindex.html.

Gertrude Singer Ogushwitz
Storrs, CT
gsogush@neca.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Red Star Liner SS Friesland, arr NY 1890 #general

Gertrude Singer Ogushwitz <gsogush@...>
 

Steve Axelrath wrote: My grandfather, Samuel AXELROD (AXELROTH) may
have arrived at the Port of New York on March 12, 1890. Morton Allen
directory notes that Red Star Line "Friesland" Antwerp-NY arrived on
that date. . . ."

You need "Passenger Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, NY,
1820-1897. Group M237, Roll #544 (Feb 21 - March 22, 1890.)
This information can be found in "Immigrant & Passenger Arrivals,
A Select Catalog of National Archives Microfilm Publications, 1991",
available >from the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).

Go to http://www.nara.gov/publications/pubindex.html. The booklet sells
for $3.50; instructions for ordering are given on NARA's website where
other usesful indexes of passenger list, census, etc. can also be found.
Go to: http://www.nara.gov/publications/pubindex.html.

Gertrude Singer Ogushwitz
Storrs, CT
gsogush@neca.com


Re: First Names Gluckel and Keile #general

PJL427@...
 

J Schamroth asked the meaning of Keile. I think this actually refers to
the Yiddish Name Keilah.One of my daughter's "Hebrew names" is Keilah.
Named after one of my wife's great aunts. When I researched the name, I
found that another meaning is that it may have come >from an Arabic word
that means Crown or Laurel. Her English name is Katherine, (if written in
Hebrew letters, it spells the Aramaic word for Crowns also). Her second
Hebrew name (for my Grandmother) was Atarah which is Hebrew for Crown.
Therefore it works out, like the teaching goes that she has "Three Crowns for a Good Name."


Philip J. Leonard MD
pjl427@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First Names Gluckel and Keile #general

PJL427@...
 

J Schamroth asked the meaning of Keile. I think this actually refers to
the Yiddish Name Keilah.One of my daughter's "Hebrew names" is Keilah.
Named after one of my wife's great aunts. When I researched the name, I
found that another meaning is that it may have come >from an Arabic word
that means Crown or Laurel. Her English name is Katherine, (if written in
Hebrew letters, it spells the Aramaic word for Crowns also). Her second
Hebrew name (for my Grandmother) was Atarah which is Hebrew for Crown.
Therefore it works out, like the teaching goes that she has "Three Crowns for a Good Name."


Philip J. Leonard MD
pjl427@aol.com