Date   

Re: ships #unitedkingdom

Paul Silverstone <paulh@...>
 

The book "South Atlantic Seaway" by N.R.P. Bonsor lists all passenger lines and
liners travelling >from Europe to Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina.

Why do you say "mythical ship" Pampa. There was a Pampa, which ran from
Havre to South America >from 1878 until scrapped in 1905. This ship
belonged to the famous line Chargeurs Reunis.
Paul Silverstone
Does anyone know about a ship or ships that ran >from Genova to Buenos
Aires?

Graciela Spivak
Stanford CA
Paul Silverstone
New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: ships #general

Paul Silverstone <paulh@...>
 

The book "South Atlantic Seaway" by N.R.P. Bonsor lists all passenger lines and
liners travelling >from Europe to Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina.

Why do you say "mythical ship" Pampa. There was a Pampa, which ran from
Havre to South America >from 1878 until scrapped in 1905. This ship
belonged to the famous line Chargeurs Reunis.
Paul Silverstone
Does anyone know about a ship or ships that ran >from Genova to Buenos
Aires?

Graciela Spivak
Stanford CA
Paul Silverstone
New York


Re: Obituary collection at the Hungarian National Library #hungary

Herbert Meyers <herbiem@...>
 

I agree with the Spiro evaluation of the obituaries. I also scanned
through several of the alphabetic folders this past summer. The notices
are formal documents that announced a death or funeral. The vast
majority were for the Budapest region and there were hardly any
announcements relating to Jews. I scanned through about 500 notices and
did not find any involving a Jew. However someone else scanning through
another part of the alphabet found about 2 or 3 ..

The collection is in the National Library in Pest. There was no
difficulty in gaining access to the documents.

Herb Meyers
Boulder, CO

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter S. Spiro <peter.spiro@...>

There have been a couple of postings recently about this collection of
800,000 obituaries >from all over Hungary. I had a look at this
collection last summer, and I should point out that people should not
get their hopes up about it.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Obituary collection at the Hungarian National Library #hungary

Herbert Meyers <herbiem@...>
 

I agree with the Spiro evaluation of the obituaries. I also scanned
through several of the alphabetic folders this past summer. The notices
are formal documents that announced a death or funeral. The vast
majority were for the Budapest region and there were hardly any
announcements relating to Jews. I scanned through about 500 notices and
did not find any involving a Jew. However someone else scanning through
another part of the alphabet found about 2 or 3 ..

The collection is in the National Library in Pest. There was no
difficulty in gaining access to the documents.

Herb Meyers
Boulder, CO

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter S. Spiro <peter.spiro@...>

There have been a couple of postings recently about this collection of
800,000 obituaries >from all over Hungary. I had a look at this
collection last summer, and I should point out that people should not
get their hopes up about it.


Re: JewishGen FTJP security #belarus

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Hi all,

I am the person that posted the original message discussing the problem
of a certain company that has begun to mine genealogy information from
family tree web sites, and to charge their subscribers for the use of
that information. At the end of that message, I placed the following
statement and request: "I suspect that the new data base of the Family
Tree of the Jewish People project is safe >from this type of piracy,
except in the case of a determined person who will develop a special
approach for that purpose, but I would like to hear >from some one
connected with the planning of the FTJP project as to whether our data
are safe there."

I wish to thank Warren Blatt for responding to the above request. As
the person leading the team of volunteers who carried the Family Tree
of the Jewish People Project >from beginning to end for JewishGen, and
saw to the preparation of the JewishGen web site to make available the
data contributed by countless Jewish genealogists, Warren is certainly
in the best position to explain the precautions taken by the team to
protect the family trees submitted to this project.

I have carefully read Warren's description of the precautions which he
has put in place to protect the FTJP data base >from mining by
outsiders. In my opinion, these precautions represent a reasonable
cost-benefit balance between the the benefits to all genealogy
researchers and to the researchers submitting their trees (in terms of
making them available for legitimate research while at the same time
providing reasonable security for the trees themselves) as opposed to
the costs of doing this.

This type of decision-making is what all of us go through when we
consider how to protect our homes, or other possessions, >from those who
would try to steal >from them. Each of us makes his own evaluation as
to how much protection to achieve versus his cost of obtaining that
level of protection. And we all understand that one hundred percent
protection is unobtainable. The best we can hope for is to make the
challenge to "most" intruders so great that "most" of them will not
accept the challenge.

And this is true of the FTJP data base. The level of protection
provided is not one hundred percent, but it is sufficient that most of
us would be satisfied to accept it. This is not the place to describe
those few instances for which the protection can be breached.

On my own behalf, and I hope on behalf of the Jewish genealogy
community, I wish to compliment Warren and his team on the excellent
facility which they have prepared for us all.

Regards,

Jerry


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: JewishGen FTJP security #latvia

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Hi all,

I am the person that posted the original message discussing the problem
of a certain company that has begun to mine genealogy information from
family tree web sites, and to charge their subscribers for the use of
that information. At the end of that message, I placed the following
statement and request: "I suspect that the new data base of the Family
Tree of the Jewish People project is safe >from this type of piracy,
except in the case of a determined person who will develop a special
approach for that purpose, but I would like to hear >from some one
connected with the planning of the FTJP project as to whether our data
are safe there."

I wish to thank Warren Blatt for responding to the above request. As
the person leading the team of volunteers who carried the Family Tree
of the Jewish People Project >from beginning to end for JewishGen, and
saw to the preparation of the JewishGen web site to make available the
data contributed by countless Jewish genealogists, Warren is certainly
in the best position to explain the precautions taken by the team to
protect the family trees submitted to this project.

I have carefully read Warren's description of the precautions which he
has put in place to protect the FTJP data base >from mining by
outsiders. In my opinion, these precautions represent a reasonable
cost-benefit balance between the the benefits to all genealogy
researchers and to the researchers submitting their trees (in terms of
making them available for legitimate research while at the same time
providing reasonable security for the trees themselves) as opposed to
the costs of doing this.

This type of decision-making is what all of us go through when we
consider how to protect our homes, or other possessions, >from those who
would try to steal >from them. Each of us makes his own evaluation as
to how much protection to achieve versus his cost of obtaining that
level of protection. And we all understand that one hundred percent
protection is unobtainable. The best we can hope for is to make the
challenge to "most" intruders so great that "most" of them will not
accept the challenge.

And this is true of the FTJP data base. The level of protection
provided is not one hundred percent, but it is sufficient that most of
us would be satisfied to accept it. This is not the place to describe
those few instances for which the protection can be breached.

On my own behalf, and I hope on behalf of the Jewish genealogy
community, I wish to compliment Warren and his team on the excellent
facility which they have prepared for us all.

Regards,

Jerry


Re: What name sounds like "Bopcha"? #general

Theo Nassar <bb560@...>
 

I think it just means 'Grandma,' in Polish, anyway. That's what
my mother always refered to her mother as, 'Babcha.'

In a previous article, ddworski@... () says:

As my grandmother relays stories >from her past, she often mentions a
female relative named "Bopcha" KORN. "Bopcha" is merely a phonetic
Theo Nassar


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: What name sounds like "Bopcha"? #general

Theo Nassar <bb560@...>
 

I think it just means 'Grandma,' in Polish, anyway. That's what
my mother always refered to her mother as, 'Babcha.'

In a previous article, ddworski@... () says:

As my grandmother relays stories >from her past, she often mentions a
female relative named "Bopcha" KORN. "Bopcha" is merely a phonetic
Theo Nassar


Can our family trees be mined by outsiders? #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Dear JewishGen-ers,

At the recent GENTECH99 conference, it was announced by a prominent
company that they were augmenting their already existing data base of
over 24 million names which has been assembled using family trees
submitted to them. The existing data base has been available on a
subscription basis.

The new database is being created by indexing all genealogy-related web
pages on the internet. The company's server looks for other Web pages
that contain GEDCOM files or text files in certain formats, plus
several other file formats. And these indexed pedigree-linked data
bases >from web sites can be accessed by the company's server for
subscribers looking for links. Subscribers submit their own GEDCOM
files to the company's server where they are automatically compared
with the existing data base, as well as the new web-site-based data
base, and then the subscriber is notified of a possible match.

It is not clear whether they are actually mining the family tree web
sites of genealogists and adding these data bases bodily to their data
base, or if they are just accessing the web data bases using their index.

Their indexing of genealogy-related web pages having GEDCOM
or other types of genealogy data files on them means that they
are using a spider to extract these family trees >from the web
sites of family genealogists without asking permission of the=20
genealogists who did the original research to develop the trees.

Web sites for which the home page is not a file called index.htm=20
or index.html are particularly vulnerable. A visitor or spider can=20
use an abbreviated URL such as http://www.somename.com/ for such
sites. The result is that the dialog between the web site's server=20
and the visitor's browser presents the visitor with a list of all the files
on the web site, so that he can choose the one he wants. Thus,=20
"hidden" files which are not normally accessed by the html software
can be revealed to the visitor and easily downloaded by him, as
well as other genealogy files normally available to visitors.

I personally consider this activity to be a form of piracy. I also
believe that all genealogists who are considering publishing their
trees on the web in the form of GEDCOM files, text files (e.g.,
descendant lists), or other similar formats (or indeed have already
done so) should think seriously about whether they would want
this company or any other company to extract their data without
their knowledge and use the data for the company's own profit.

It behooves all of us to consider other ways of publishing our
family trees so that this type of activity will fail. As an example,
I suspect that the new data base of the Family Tree of the Jewish
People project is safe >from this type of piracy, except in the case
of a determined person who will develop a special approach for
that purpose, but I would like to hear >from some one connected
with the planning of the FTJP project as to whether our data are
safe there.

Regards,

Jerry Esterson,
Ra'anana, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Can our family trees be mined by outsiders? #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Dear JewishGen-ers,

At the recent GENTECH99 conference, it was announced by a prominent
company that they were augmenting their already existing data base of
over 24 million names which has been assembled using family trees
submitted to them. The existing data base has been available on a
subscription basis.

The new database is being created by indexing all genealogy-related web
pages on the internet. The company's server looks for other Web pages
that contain GEDCOM files or text files in certain formats, plus
several other file formats. And these indexed pedigree-linked data
bases >from web sites can be accessed by the company's server for
subscribers looking for links. Subscribers submit their own GEDCOM
files to the company's server where they are automatically compared
with the existing data base, as well as the new web-site-based data
base, and then the subscriber is notified of a possible match.

It is not clear whether they are actually mining the family tree web
sites of genealogists and adding these data bases bodily to their data
base, or if they are just accessing the web data bases using their index.

Their indexing of genealogy-related web pages having GEDCOM
or other types of genealogy data files on them means that they
are using a spider to extract these family trees >from the web
sites of family genealogists without asking permission of the=20
genealogists who did the original research to develop the trees.

Web sites for which the home page is not a file called index.htm=20
or index.html are particularly vulnerable. A visitor or spider can=20
use an abbreviated URL such as http://www.somename.com/ for such
sites. The result is that the dialog between the web site's server=20
and the visitor's browser presents the visitor with a list of all the files
on the web site, so that he can choose the one he wants. Thus,=20
"hidden" files which are not normally accessed by the html software
can be revealed to the visitor and easily downloaded by him, as
well as other genealogy files normally available to visitors.

I personally consider this activity to be a form of piracy. I also
believe that all genealogists who are considering publishing their
trees on the web in the form of GEDCOM files, text files (e.g.,
descendant lists), or other similar formats (or indeed have already
done so) should think seriously about whether they would want
this company or any other company to extract their data without
their knowledge and use the data for the company's own profit.

It behooves all of us to consider other ways of publishing our
family trees so that this type of activity will fail. As an example,
I suspect that the new data base of the Family Tree of the Jewish
People project is safe >from this type of piracy, except in the case
of a determined person who will develop a special approach for
that purpose, but I would like to hear >from some one connected
with the planning of the FTJP project as to whether our data are
safe there.

Regards,

Jerry Esterson,
Ra'anana, Israel


Re: What Was There in 1891? #general

usenet@...
 

On 4 Feb 1999, Ricki L. Zunk wrote:

FIRST: What was located at 515 S. 7th St. in May 1891? Was it a
synagogue? church? catering hall?
I can offer some help with this. Every major urban area in the US has
what are called "Sanborn atlases" or fire insurance maps. These very
detailed maps show the footprint of every building and its construction
type, number of stories, and, in some cases, names of commercial or
industrial occupants. UC/Berkeley has a nice long article about these
maps at <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/snb-intr.html>. The Library of
Congress has hundreds of volumes of Sanborns >from around the US and plans
to digitize them over the next few uears.

Chances are good that the public library and/or historical society in
Philadelphia has a set of Sanborns and might be able to do a search for
you.

City directories should also be consulted because these often contain a
geographic section in the back, listing streets and the occupants of each
building. However, this is sometimes a modern innovation; Buffalo's
directories, for example, didn't include this feature until 1930.

Hope this helps.

Cynthia Van Ness,
Buffalo NY USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: What Was There in 1891? #general

usenet@...
 

On 4 Feb 1999, Ricki L. Zunk wrote:

FIRST: What was located at 515 S. 7th St. in May 1891? Was it a
synagogue? church? catering hall?
I can offer some help with this. Every major urban area in the US has
what are called "Sanborn atlases" or fire insurance maps. These very
detailed maps show the footprint of every building and its construction
type, number of stories, and, in some cases, names of commercial or
industrial occupants. UC/Berkeley has a nice long article about these
maps at <http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/snb-intr.html>. The Library of
Congress has hundreds of volumes of Sanborns >from around the US and plans
to digitize them over the next few uears.

Chances are good that the public library and/or historical society in
Philadelphia has a set of Sanborns and might be able to do a search for
you.

City directories should also be consulted because these often contain a
geographic section in the back, listing streets and the occupants of each
building. However, this is sometimes a modern innovation; Buffalo's
directories, for example, didn't include this feature until 1930.

Hope this helps.

Cynthia Van Ness,
Buffalo NY USA


Munkacs burial listing #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Dennis Baer has done it again!

He has scanned in the only extant list of burials >from the destroyed Munkacs
cemetery (for further information about the cemetery in Munkacs see the
article by Louis Schonfeld in Avotaynu, "A Report On Selected Hungarian
Jewish Cemeteries" VIII/3/37). According to the story I heard, the original
Pinkas (burial book) was lost and a committee was organized to enumerate the
Matzevot (tombstones). During the early 1960s, the pages of enumeration that
were located were smuggled out, over time, to America. The names listed
represent about 30% of the total number of Jews interred in that cemetery
from the mid eighteenth century until shortly before the beginning of World
War II. The pages remained unpublished until this past summer when it was
included as an appendix to a commemoration journal on the Jewish history of
Munkacs and the Munkatcher Chassidic dynasty published by that community in
Brooklyn. One appendix has the names listed alphabetically, and another has
the list according to the originally marked sections and rows. The entire
journal is in Hebrew including the burial lists. I am soliciting volunteers
to assist me in translating the names into English.

When completed the list of names in English and the pages in Hebrew scanned
in by Dennis will be put on our web site.

To volunteer please contact me at Lmagyar@...

Louis Schonfeld

Please visit our website at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/


Hungary SIG #Hungary Munkacs burial listing #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Dennis Baer has done it again!

He has scanned in the only extant list of burials >from the destroyed Munkacs
cemetery (for further information about the cemetery in Munkacs see the
article by Louis Schonfeld in Avotaynu, "A Report On Selected Hungarian
Jewish Cemeteries" VIII/3/37). According to the story I heard, the original
Pinkas (burial book) was lost and a committee was organized to enumerate the
Matzevot (tombstones). During the early 1960s, the pages of enumeration that
were located were smuggled out, over time, to America. The names listed
represent about 30% of the total number of Jews interred in that cemetery
from the mid eighteenth century until shortly before the beginning of World
War II. The pages remained unpublished until this past summer when it was
included as an appendix to a commemoration journal on the Jewish history of
Munkacs and the Munkatcher Chassidic dynasty published by that community in
Brooklyn. One appendix has the names listed alphabetically, and another has
the list according to the originally marked sections and rows. The entire
journal is in Hebrew including the burial lists. I am soliciting volunteers
to assist me in translating the names into English.

When completed the list of names in English and the pages in Hebrew scanned
in by Dennis will be put on our web site.

To volunteer please contact me at Lmagyar@...

Louis Schonfeld

Please visit our website at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/


THE LAST DAYS #hungary

NKFisch@...
 

There is a movie review in today's New York Times (E16) of a new documentary
called The Last Days. It is the first feature documentary made by the Shoah
Foundation and Spielberg is the executive producer. It is "a concise,
devastating history of the Nazis' decimation of Hungary's Jewish population
during the final days of WWII". It opens today in NY.

If anyone would like a copy of the review, please let me know.

A good Shabbos to all.
Nancy


Hungary SIG #Hungary THE LAST DAYS #hungary

NKFisch@...
 

There is a movie review in today's New York Times (E16) of a new documentary
called The Last Days. It is the first feature documentary made by the Shoah
Foundation and Spielberg is the executive producer. It is "a concise,
devastating history of the Nazis' decimation of Hungary's Jewish population
during the final days of WWII". It opens today in NY.

If anyone would like a copy of the review, please let me know.

A good Shabbos to all.
Nancy


*re: Obituary collection at the Hungarian National Library #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Allow me to disagree with Peter. I found very useful obituaries which
helped me to discover the names and familiar relationship of many
relatives.

How does this works? Many Hungarian obituaries of the 19th century (the one
I have been looking for) carry the names of the close relatives to the
deceased person AND the familiar relationship. This how I learned that a
certain Mr. Sandor Velenczei, brother of the famous rabbi Lajos Venetianer,
had 6 siblings. Reading his obituary I discovered their names too. Many
other such obituaries opened the doors to further searching because they
also mentioned the town and date where the burial took place.

I would certainly encourage you to look for these little jewels. It's not
as good as the American obituaries but certainly worth the effort to find
them. According to J. Bogardi, they are *very orderly* catalogued at the
Sechenyi library.

the best to all
Tom

| Subject: Obituary collection at the Hungarian National Library
>| From: "Peter S. Spiro" <peter.spiro@...>
>| Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:00:35 -0800
>|
>| newspaper notice that often gives biographical and family information
>| about a person). Instead, they are fancy printed invitations to a
>| funeral, often with black crepe borders.
>|
>| ... From
>| the ones I saw, I do not think there is a low probability of a
>| genealogist finding much that is useful. They mostly just contained the
>| times and place of the funeral, with little else.


Hungary SIG #Hungary *re: Obituary collection at the Hungarian National Library #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Allow me to disagree with Peter. I found very useful obituaries which
helped me to discover the names and familiar relationship of many
relatives.

How does this works? Many Hungarian obituaries of the 19th century (the one
I have been looking for) carry the names of the close relatives to the
deceased person AND the familiar relationship. This how I learned that a
certain Mr. Sandor Velenczei, brother of the famous rabbi Lajos Venetianer,
had 6 siblings. Reading his obituary I discovered their names too. Many
other such obituaries opened the doors to further searching because they
also mentioned the town and date where the burial took place.

I would certainly encourage you to look for these little jewels. It's not
as good as the American obituaries but certainly worth the effort to find
them. According to J. Bogardi, they are *very orderly* catalogued at the
Sechenyi library.

the best to all
Tom

| Subject: Obituary collection at the Hungarian National Library
>| From: "Peter S. Spiro" <peter.spiro@...>
>| Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:00:35 -0800
>|
>| newspaper notice that often gives biographical and family information
>| about a person). Instead, they are fancy printed invitations to a
>| funeral, often with black crepe borders.
>|
>| ... From
>| the ones I saw, I do not think there is a low probability of a
>| genealogist finding much that is useful. They mostly just contained the
>| times and place of the funeral, with little else.


Movies. #hungary

Jordan Auslander <jordan@...>
 

There was also, by the same filmmaker "The Last Klezmer" and "Carpati,"
documentaries concerning the Carpatho-Ruthenian region. Haven't found
or seen 'em though.


mod.- there was significant discussion on h-sig last year about the film "Carpati". At that time the price was $99 for the video. The price may have come down by now. If someone wants to organize a group purchase or wants me to do it, e-mail me privately. There is information about "Carpati" on the web. Try searching on "Carpti" or "Yale Strom" (the filmmaker) to find out more. "The Last Klezmer" was also made by Yale Strom, however, the venue is Poland, and has little relationship to Hungary.LS


Slovak-English Dictionary #hungary

Dolph Klein <kledolph@...>
 

| From: Bernice Shoobe <bshoobe@...>
>| Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:53:35 -0500
>|
>| Does anyone know of a good Slovak to English dictionary?

Bernice,

When I was in Bratislava last year, I purchased a 1085-page dictionary
titled, Slovensko-anglicky slovnik, published by Slovak Academic Press
(SAP) in 1997, ISBN 80-85665-93-X. The authors are: L'udovit Barac, Andrea
Canikova, Silvia Cervencikova and L'ubica Slobodnikova. Try Amazon.com or
Barnes & Nobel.com to see if either one can get it for you. I was told that
SAP will eventually come out with the companion English-Slovak dictionary.
Perhaps, it already has, but I have not checked it out.

Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC