Date   

The Forename Isser #general

Harold Pollins <pollins@...>
 

Many thanks to those who responded to my question about this name. It is
undoubtedly associated with the name Israel.

I hope I have replied to all individually. If a thank you hasn't arrived it
might be due to my forgetfulness or it might be caused by the vagaries of
this new technology. When I do not receive responses to e-mails that I have
sent I usually decide that the reason(s) must be: 1. the correspondent has
forgotten; 2. the message did not arrive for one reason or another; 3. the
correspondent has decided my message was rubbish and has therefore decided
not to reply.

None of these applies in the present instance since all the messages I saw
were interesting and relevant.

Except that I was vaguely castigated for not knowing Kirk Douglas's
forename. I felt like emulating the stereotypical English judge's
other-worldliness and ask: Who is Kirk Douglas?

Harold Pollins

Oxford England

pollins@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The original question having been answered (for at least
the third time here, according to the Discussion Group Archives!), this
thread is once again closed.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The Forename Isser #general

Harold Pollins <pollins@...>
 

Many thanks to those who responded to my question about this name. It is
undoubtedly associated with the name Israel.

I hope I have replied to all individually. If a thank you hasn't arrived it
might be due to my forgetfulness or it might be caused by the vagaries of
this new technology. When I do not receive responses to e-mails that I have
sent I usually decide that the reason(s) must be: 1. the correspondent has
forgotten; 2. the message did not arrive for one reason or another; 3. the
correspondent has decided my message was rubbish and has therefore decided
not to reply.

None of these applies in the present instance since all the messages I saw
were interesting and relevant.

Except that I was vaguely castigated for not knowing Kirk Douglas's
forename. I felt like emulating the stereotypical English judge's
other-worldliness and ask: Who is Kirk Douglas?

Harold Pollins

Oxford England

pollins@...

MODERATOR NOTE: The original question having been answered (for at least
the third time here, according to the Discussion Group Archives!), this
thread is once again closed.


Re: Forename Isser #general

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

I may be wrong, but I think Asher is different in origin.

Ouzer is Ezra, also different. Different tribes.

But if these are two of the tribes that got lost, how come we still
name people after them?

Judith Romney Wegner's reasoned answer shows just how wrong a reputable
source like Gorr can be.

In message <36B7B9E1.1983@...>, Victor Stone
<victor.stone@...> writes
Could be Asher (tribe of) also.
Dr Saul Issroff


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Forename Isser #general

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

I may be wrong, but I think Asher is different in origin.

Ouzer is Ezra, also different. Different tribes.

But if these are two of the tribes that got lost, how come we still
name people after them?

Judith Romney Wegner's reasoned answer shows just how wrong a reputable
source like Gorr can be.

In message <36B7B9E1.1983@...>, Victor Stone
<victor.stone@...> writes
Could be Asher (tribe of) also.
Dr Saul Issroff


Re: maiden names #galicia

Warren Blatt <wblatt@...>
 

Molly Gordy" <mgordy@...> wrote:

I've just been told that all marriage licenses in my grandfather's native
village were destroyed, so I can't get my great-grandmother's maiden name
from the Ukranian archives. Can someone tell me, would my immigrant
grandfather have listed his mom's maiden name on his application for
Social Security, his request for U.S. citizenship, or any other American
document that might be available to me?
Social Security applications always include mother's maiden name.
U.S. Naturalization records do not include parents' names.
Marriage records in most U.S. states ask for mother's maiden name.
Death records in most U.S. states ask for mother's maiden name,
but this is often not filled in.

You should also try obtaining the same documents for his siblings.

Warren

Warren Blatt
Boston, MA
<wblatt@...>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: maiden names #general

Warren Blatt <wblatt@...>
 

Molly Gordy" <mgordy@...> wrote:

I've just been told that all marriage licenses in my grandfather's native
village were destroyed, so I can't get my great-grandmother's maiden name
from the Ukranian archives. Can someone tell me, would my immigrant
grandfather have listed his mom's maiden name on his application for
Social Security, his request for U.S. citizenship, or any other American
document that might be available to me?
Social Security applications always include mother's maiden name.
U.S. Naturalization records do not include parents' names.
Marriage records in most U.S. states ask for mother's maiden name.
Death records in most U.S. states ask for mother's maiden name,
but this is often not filled in.

You should also try obtaining the same documents for his siblings.

Warren

Warren Blatt
Boston, MA
<wblatt@...>


Re: Former last name help (naturalization records pre-Sept. 1906) #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

If my own experience is any indication, you will be stymied. Census
records, even when not burned, do not list previous names. The previous
name would not be listed on any document at the port of entry, because the
immigrant's name was copied >from the passenger manifest of the ship on
which he arrived. That being the case, the previous name would not be found
on the manifest either.

If you do discover a way to nail down an immigrant's previous name, PLEASE
DO publish it; you will solve a great problem for many of us.

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:57:44, brown@... (Samuel Brown)
'llowed:

My great grandfather, Joseph Brown, was >from Pavoloch, Ukraine. He arrived
at Ellis Island in 1888 with a small family. He submitted his Petition
for Naturalization in May, 1902 and received his Certificate of
Citizenship in the Eastern New York District (Manhattan) on January 30,
1906. My goal is to find out what his last name was before he changed it
to Brown--the previous surname does not appear on either document
(naturalization records filed before September 1906 usually don't include
an applicant's former name.)
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

Mail sent to "sheol@..." will not be read. Please replace "sheol"
with "styx". Thank you.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Former last name help (naturalization records pre-Sept. 1906) #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

If my own experience is any indication, you will be stymied. Census
records, even when not burned, do not list previous names. The previous
name would not be listed on any document at the port of entry, because the
immigrant's name was copied >from the passenger manifest of the ship on
which he arrived. That being the case, the previous name would not be found
on the manifest either.

If you do discover a way to nail down an immigrant's previous name, PLEASE
DO publish it; you will solve a great problem for many of us.

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:57:44, brown@... (Samuel Brown)
'llowed:

My great grandfather, Joseph Brown, was >from Pavoloch, Ukraine. He arrived
at Ellis Island in 1888 with a small family. He submitted his Petition
for Naturalization in May, 1902 and received his Certificate of
Citizenship in the Eastern New York District (Manhattan) on January 30,
1906. My goal is to find out what his last name was before he changed it
to Brown--the previous surname does not appear on either document
(naturalization records filed before September 1906 usually don't include
an applicant's former name.)
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

Mail sent to "sheol@..." will not be read. Please replace "sheol"
with "styx". Thank you.


Re: surname ending #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:51:21, tovaknits@... (Toni Valenstein) 'llowed:

-> >from what I've learned, when the Jews of Poland took on surnames, some
-> were named for the area they came >from (for ex. sky). My surname
-> (VALENSTEIN) ends with "stein" or >from what I have learned was
-> originally "sztejn". I've been told that this means stone. Is there
-> another meaning? Why would so many people take on the name "stone"?

It isn't that "stein" was originally "sztejn", but that the quite original
German word "stein" (= stone) is transcribed in Polish phonetics as
"sztejn". The truth is that the same German word would be written "shtain"
in English phonetics, were it not for convention.

Why your forbears chose a name ending in this element is beyond me.

The ending "sky" or "ski" does not necessarily indicate place of origin,
but is a general Slavic adjectival suffix.

Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ISMACH, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia,
Poland
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive tree (requires Java 1.1 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
[You can download Java 1.1.6 >from my site, if you don't have it]

Mail sent to "sheol@..." will not be read. Please replace "sheol"
with "styx", or communicate with me through the Website mentioned just
above. Thank you.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: surname ending #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:51:21, tovaknits@... (Toni Valenstein) 'llowed:

-> >from what I've learned, when the Jews of Poland took on surnames, some
-> were named for the area they came >from (for ex. sky). My surname
-> (VALENSTEIN) ends with "stein" or >from what I have learned was
-> originally "sztejn". I've been told that this means stone. Is there
-> another meaning? Why would so many people take on the name "stone"?

It isn't that "stein" was originally "sztejn", but that the quite original
German word "stein" (= stone) is transcribed in Polish phonetics as
"sztejn". The truth is that the same German word would be written "shtain"
in English phonetics, were it not for convention.

Why your forbears chose a name ending in this element is beyond me.

The ending "sky" or "ski" does not necessarily indicate place of origin,
but is a general Slavic adjectival suffix.

Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ISMACH, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia,
Poland
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive tree (requires Java 1.1 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com
[You can download Java 1.1.6 >from my site, if you don't have it]

Mail sent to "sheol@..." will not be read. Please replace "sheol"
with "styx", or communicate with me through the Website mentioned just
above. Thank you.


Surnames ending in . . . . STEIN #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 99-02-02 13:50:57 EST, Toni Valenstein
(tovaknits@...) writes:

<< . . . . when the Jews of Poland took on surnames, some were named for
the area they came >from (for ex. sky). My surname (VALENSTEIN) ends with
"stein" or >from what I have learned was originally "sztejn". I've been
told that this means stone. Is there another meaning? Why would so many
people take on the name "stone"?>>

1. Lesson 1: don't believe everything you've been told. The original
... "stein" is German, and thus spelled. The Poles had their way of
spelling it, to which Jews generally paid little attention, except on their
passports etc.

2. Lesson 2. When you're figuring out a family name, it always pays to
look in ShtetlSeeker. I found just one town with this name in Germany (but
there may be others in Austria, Bohemia, Poland, etc. ) This is the town I
found

WALLENSTEIN, coordinates 5057 929, 199.3 miles WSW of Berlin.
It's actually close to the borders of Bavaria, Hesse and the former East
Germany. I suggest you look up other possible locations yourself with a
soundex search in Eastern Europe.

I'm pretty certain that one of your ancestors had once lived in this
Wallerstein (or another town by that name) and took the name as a sobriquet
in his new town. On the other hand, he may have taken the name of a family
he married into, worked for, admired--or taken the name of a local official
to curry favor.

Yes, Stein means Stone. Stone is also a popular English name. Among Jews
the name Stein might indicate
1. that he was a dealer or worker in precious stone
2. that he lived near a significant rock
3. used a picture of a rock or a jewel as a "heraldic" sign
4. was a stone mason
5. lived in the only stone building in the village
6. abbreviated his name >from Steinmetz, Steinbuehll, Steinberg etc
7. abbreviated his name >from Wallerstein, Kitzelstein etc. (One Stein, a
former political figure in NY State had been called Finkelstien before he
stood for election)
8. NOTA

I hope this helps

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth; JONDORF, Bavaria
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF, Aron married Babette GOLDSCHMIDT ca 1860 in Frankfurt;
WOLF, Sali, b. Fkfrt, d. Rotterrdam 1941/2; WOLF, GOLDSCHMIDT, Wurzburg


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Surnames ending in . . . . STEIN #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 99-02-02 13:50:57 EST, Toni Valenstein
(tovaknits@...) writes:

<< . . . . when the Jews of Poland took on surnames, some were named for
the area they came >from (for ex. sky). My surname (VALENSTEIN) ends with
"stein" or >from what I have learned was originally "sztejn". I've been
told that this means stone. Is there another meaning? Why would so many
people take on the name "stone"?>>

1. Lesson 1: don't believe everything you've been told. The original
... "stein" is German, and thus spelled. The Poles had their way of
spelling it, to which Jews generally paid little attention, except on their
passports etc.

2. Lesson 2. When you're figuring out a family name, it always pays to
look in ShtetlSeeker. I found just one town with this name in Germany (but
there may be others in Austria, Bohemia, Poland, etc. ) This is the town I
found

WALLENSTEIN, coordinates 5057 929, 199.3 miles WSW of Berlin.
It's actually close to the borders of Bavaria, Hesse and the former East
Germany. I suggest you look up other possible locations yourself with a
soundex search in Eastern Europe.

I'm pretty certain that one of your ancestors had once lived in this
Wallerstein (or another town by that name) and took the name as a sobriquet
in his new town. On the other hand, he may have taken the name of a family
he married into, worked for, admired--or taken the name of a local official
to curry favor.

Yes, Stein means Stone. Stone is also a popular English name. Among Jews
the name Stein might indicate
1. that he was a dealer or worker in precious stone
2. that he lived near a significant rock
3. used a picture of a rock or a jewel as a "heraldic" sign
4. was a stone mason
5. lived in the only stone building in the village
6. abbreviated his name >from Steinmetz, Steinbuehll, Steinberg etc
7. abbreviated his name >from Wallerstein, Kitzelstein etc. (One Stein, a
former political figure in NY State had been called Finkelstien before he
stood for election)
8. NOTA

I hope this helps

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth; JONDORF, Bavaria
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF, Aron married Babette GOLDSCHMIDT ca 1860 in Frankfurt;
WOLF, Sali, b. Fkfrt, d. Rotterrdam 1941/2; WOLF, GOLDSCHMIDT, Wurzburg


Tradition of naming in memory of opposite sex? #general

JGLois@...
 

Knowing that there are no hard and fast rules about names, I am
wondering what are the probabilities that a male and a female
descendant (in Kiev Gub.- circa 1850) could both be named for
the same ancestor?

I have found another family of MEZHIRITZKYs who hail >from the
same general vicinity, and had a relationship here in the Phila.
area with my MEZHIRITZKY family. At least one member of that
family remembers (oral history) that they were related to us, and
several or our family members remember the same. However,
I cannot find the link. The clue is in the names. The grandfather
of this newly found branch was named Zussel and one of the female
siblings in my descendancy (about the same age) was named Zissel.

I know the origins of these names (thanks to the many discussions
here in previous threads) but I don't recall the topic of male and female
naming for the same person. BTW, these families were not engaged
in scholarly pursuits (at that time) and the names they carried were
the Yiddish names they used throughout their lives. There is no evidence
of an additional Hebrew name for either the man or woman.

Your thoughts?

Lois Sernoff [Philadelphia, PA, USA]
<JGLois@...>
Researching:
FRIEDMAN: Beltsy (Bessarabia) Moldova to Phila.
KUSHNER: Tomashpol & Yampol (Podolia Gub), Russia to Phila.
MEZHIRITZKY [MERITZ][MARRITZ][MARRITS]: Korsun (Kiev Gub),Russia to Phila.
SOSNOVSKY/SOSNOWSKY, SHAROVSKY, SWOEJETSKY/SWOYETSKY:
Gorodishche (Kiev Gub, Cherkassy d.),Russia to Phila.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Tradition of naming in memory of opposite sex? #general

JGLois@...
 

Knowing that there are no hard and fast rules about names, I am
wondering what are the probabilities that a male and a female
descendant (in Kiev Gub.- circa 1850) could both be named for
the same ancestor?

I have found another family of MEZHIRITZKYs who hail >from the
same general vicinity, and had a relationship here in the Phila.
area with my MEZHIRITZKY family. At least one member of that
family remembers (oral history) that they were related to us, and
several or our family members remember the same. However,
I cannot find the link. The clue is in the names. The grandfather
of this newly found branch was named Zussel and one of the female
siblings in my descendancy (about the same age) was named Zissel.

I know the origins of these names (thanks to the many discussions
here in previous threads) but I don't recall the topic of male and female
naming for the same person. BTW, these families were not engaged
in scholarly pursuits (at that time) and the names they carried were
the Yiddish names they used throughout their lives. There is no evidence
of an additional Hebrew name for either the man or woman.

Your thoughts?

Lois Sernoff [Philadelphia, PA, USA]
<JGLois@...>
Researching:
FRIEDMAN: Beltsy (Bessarabia) Moldova to Phila.
KUSHNER: Tomashpol & Yampol (Podolia Gub), Russia to Phila.
MEZHIRITZKY [MERITZ][MARRITZ][MARRITS]: Korsun (Kiev Gub),Russia to Phila.
SOSNOVSKY/SOSNOWSKY, SHAROVSKY, SWOEJETSKY/SWOYETSKY:
Gorodishche (Kiev Gub, Cherkassy d.),Russia to Phila.


Re: Want Polish Translation #general

DAIZYDO0
 

I looked up a Polish Musem in my area (Long Island) and called them. They
said they would be happy to any translations >from Polish to Enlish. You
might see if there is one in your area and if they will do a manuscript or
if they know of any one.

Harriet Rosen


Polish translation #general

HNRosen@...
 

I notice the "translation services" portion of the JewishGen website is no
longer functional. I recently received a letter >from the USC in Olkusz,
and hope someone can confirm for me that the letter says they were *not*
able to find any of the records I requested:

Urza\d Stanu Cywilnego w Olkuszu w zal/a\czeniu przesyl/a odpowiedz' na
pismo Pana Howarda ROSEN z dnia 12 listopda 1998 roku dotycza\ce akto'w
urodzenia i mal/z*en'stwa Jego przodko'w z pros'ba\ o przekazanie.

TIA, please reply privately to:

Howard Rosen
Los Angeles
HNRosen@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Want Polish Translation #general

DAIZYDO0
 

I looked up a Polish Musem in my area (Long Island) and called them. They
said they would be happy to any translations >from Polish to Enlish. You
might see if there is one in your area and if they will do a manuscript or
if they know of any one.

Harriet Rosen


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Polish translation #general

HNRosen@...
 

I notice the "translation services" portion of the JewishGen website is no
longer functional. I recently received a letter >from the USC in Olkusz,
and hope someone can confirm for me that the letter says they were *not*
able to find any of the records I requested:

Urza\d Stanu Cywilnego w Olkuszu w zal/a\czeniu przesyl/a odpowiedz' na
pismo Pana Howarda ROSEN z dnia 12 listopda 1998 roku dotycza\ce akto'w
urodzenia i mal/z*en'stwa Jego przodko'w z pros'ba\ o przekazanie.

TIA, please reply privately to:

Howard Rosen
Los Angeles
HNRosen@...


Palm Beach County JGSI Meeting #general

Curiousyl@...
 

Jewish Genealogical Society Palm Beach County, Inc.

February Membership Meeting

Wednesday, February 10, 1999

South County Civic Center
16700 Jog Road
Delray Beach, Florida
Time: 1 - 4 P.M.

PROGRAM: Robert Weiss, of Palo Alto, California, - Director and Past
President of the International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies
will lecture on Eastern European Documents.

Meeting open to members and guests. Newbies and experienced researchers
are welcome.

Al Leeds - Co-President
Sylvia Nusinov - Co-President

Further Information: Sylvia: curiousyl@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Palm Beach County JGSI Meeting #general

Curiousyl@...
 

Jewish Genealogical Society Palm Beach County, Inc.

February Membership Meeting

Wednesday, February 10, 1999

South County Civic Center
16700 Jog Road
Delray Beach, Florida
Time: 1 - 4 P.M.

PROGRAM: Robert Weiss, of Palo Alto, California, - Director and Past
President of the International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies
will lecture on Eastern European Documents.

Meeting open to members and guests. Newbies and experienced researchers
are welcome.

Al Leeds - Co-President
Sylvia Nusinov - Co-President

Further Information: Sylvia: curiousyl@...