Dee Lentcher,

The first thing you should do is try to identify people to talk with
... old neighbors, distant relations, etc. If you haven't yet, get a
copy of Arthur Kurzweil's >from Generation to Generation, either edition,
and read it to get a very good understanding of how to proceed. Remember
" people first then records", but you may need to find some records to
find the people or their descendants. In the interest of time make sure
you have the easy-to-find paperwork: birth, death, marriage and maybe
some school records. Think about all the times people interact with
entities (government, religious, medical, legal ....) and leave paper
trails and then start chasing the paper trails. The Kurzweil book will
give you the "feel" of how these searches go and what / where some of the
resources are. JewishGen FAQ and infofiles may help you as well to get
yourself oriented. Also, if there is a Jewish genealogy society near you
the society may offer beginner's workshops. Good luck!
Jonina Duker

Dee Lentcher,

The first thing you should do is try to identify people to talk with
... old neighbors, distant relations, etc. If you haven't yet, get a
copy of Arthur Kurzweil's >from Generation to Generation, either edition,
and read it to get a very good understanding of how to proceed. Remember
" people first then records", but you may need to find some records to
find the people or their descendants. In the interest of time make sure
you have the easy-to-find paperwork: birth, death, marriage and maybe
some school records. Think about all the times people interact with
entities (government, religious, medical, legal ....) and leave paper
trails and then start chasing the paper trails. The Kurzweil book will
give you the "feel" of how these searches go and what / where some of the
resources are. JewishGen FAQ and infofiles may help you as well to get
yourself oriented. Also, if there is a Jewish genealogy society near you
the society may offer beginner's workshops. Good luck!
Jonina Duker

I have been helping someone with the translation of Polish documents.
In one of those documents I could not ascribe a direct representation of
a proper name. I came up with 6 'possibles.' Because of this, I
transmitted a scan of the portion of the document that had the names to
an acquaintance in Poland, hoping that he would be able to correctly
discern what the names were (the names were identical except for the
'case' changes required by the language). He was baffled and sent my
scan on to a friend who is familiar with Jewish documents of the
period. The friend replied that the names were written in 'Gothic
Yiddish', transcribed them and sent some examples of how the two (M & B)
letters would appear.

Is there someone in this newsgroup who could send me scans of the
various letters which would appear in 'Gothic Yiddish" and how they
would appear in handwritten documents. Please reply privately to:
mailto:tymczuk@ibm.net

Thank you.
Allan Tymczuk

I have been helping someone with the translation of Polish documents.
In one of those documents I could not ascribe a direct representation of
a proper name. I came up with 6 'possibles.' Because of this, I
transmitted a scan of the portion of the document that had the names to
an acquaintance in Poland, hoping that he would be able to correctly
discern what the names were (the names were identical except for the
'case' changes required by the language). He was baffled and sent my
scan on to a friend who is familiar with Jewish documents of the
period. The friend replied that the names were written in 'Gothic
Yiddish', transcribed them and sent some examples of how the two (M & B)
letters would appear.

Is there someone in this newsgroup who could send me scans of the
various letters which would appear in 'Gothic Yiddish" and how they
would appear in handwritten documents. Please reply privately to:
mailto:tymczuk@ibm.net

Thank you.
Allan Tymczuk

Rica B Goldberg <GERRICA@aol.com> wrote:

On my great-grandfathers tombstone it was written that he was Iddle (Adokph)
Kaminsky the son of Nachamed (Nun, Chess, Mem, Yud, Daled). I am not familiar
with this name. Is anyone else?

The final 'dalet' is most likely a 'hey', which would make this name
"Nechemia", the name of a Biblical prophet.

His wife was the daygther of Moisha and her name was Mirat Rifka. I have
never heard of the name Mirat. I know there are many of you who understand
the origins of these names and I would like to hear more on Nachamed and
Mirat. Many thanks in anticipation.

"Marat" means "Mrs." in Hebrew.

Warren

Warren Blatt
Boston, MA
<wblatt@jewishgen.org>

Rica B Goldberg <GERRICA@aol.com> wrote:

On my great-grandfathers tombstone it was written that he was Iddle (Adokph)
Kaminsky the son of Nachamed (Nun, Chess, Mem, Yud, Daled). I am not familiar
with this name. Is anyone else?

The final 'dalet' is most likely a 'hey', which would make this name
"Nechemia", the name of a Biblical prophet.

His wife was the daygther of Moisha and her name was Mirat Rifka. I have
never heard of the name Mirat. I know there are many of you who understand
the origins of these names and I would like to hear more on Nachamed and
Mirat. Many thanks in anticipation.

"Marat" means "Mrs." in Hebrew.

Warren

Warren Blatt
Boston, MA
<wblatt@jewishgen.org>

Something doesn't sound quite right because when the informant filling
out the papers is actually the person one would expect much more accuracy
than when it's someone like a purser on a ship, or a census-taker, or
whomever. If you are sure that both applications are absolutely for the
same person could it be that his English was so rough the first go-around
he didn't know the words for colors? In that case, on the assumption his
English improved later the later one would be more reliable. Off-hand
can't think of another possible explanation beside not the same person,
or the person's English was almost non-existent the first time around.
If you ever figure this one out please post the answer to the
different-eye-color mystery. (Maybe a medical condition that changed the
color of his eyes?)
Jonina Duker

Something doesn't sound quite right because when the informant filling
out the papers is actually the person one would expect much more accuracy
than when it's someone like a purser on a ship, or a census-taker, or
whomever. If you are sure that both applications are absolutely for the
same person could it be that his English was so rough the first go-around
he didn't know the words for colors? In that case, on the assumption his
English improved later the later one would be more reliable. Off-hand
can't think of another possible explanation beside not the same person,
or the person's English was almost non-existent the first time around.
If you ever figure this one out please post the answer to the
different-eye-color mystery. (Maybe a medical condition that changed the
color of his eyes?)
Jonina Duker

All passengers should be in the same index. Cabin class
passengers received more perfunctory inspections either on-board
or on disembarking on the west side. Steerage passengers were
then taken to Ellis Island. All were listed on the immigration
manifests, cabin class passengers first.
Bert
Herbert Lazerow
San Diego CA 92110-2492
lazer@acusd.edu

All passengers should be in the same index. Cabin class
passengers received more perfunctory inspections either on-board
or on disembarking on the west side. Steerage passengers were
then taken to Ellis Island. All were listed on the immigration
manifests, cabin class passengers first.
Bert
Herbert Lazerow
San Diego CA 92110-2492
lazer@acusd.edu

Yes only the steerage class passengers (mostly called third class by the
1920s) went sent to the immigration station in New York City, be it Ellis
Island or any of the stations that pre-dated Ellis Island. Yes class did
have its privlidges.

Allan Jordan

aejordan@aol.com

Yes only the steerage class passengers (mostly called third class by the
1920s) went sent to the immigration station in New York City, be it Ellis
Island or any of the stations that pre-dated Ellis Island. Yes class did
have its privlidges.

Allan Jordan

aejordan@aol.com

In a message dated 99-02-25 00:17:32 EST, bobmar37@aol.com writes:

<< When I visited Ellis Island several years ago, I learned that first and
second class passengers were dropped off in Manhattan before ships left
the others at Ellis Island. Some who were rejected at Ellis Island
returned home and saved up enough money for a second class fare so they
could return and avoid the scrutiny at Ellis Island. >>


Yes that is basically correct. The way it actually worked is that the ships
anchored in the lower New York Harbor and a ferry came out >from Ellis Island
and took the people off. For years the ferry was half sunk sitting at Ellis
Island -- I saw it when I was there. The ship itself then continued on to the
piers in Hoboken or Manhattan or Brooklyn (depending on the shipping company)
and the people or class were processed there. By the way if the person was
returned to the home country it was at the cost of the shipping line. When
the immigration quotas were put in after World War I they were on a monthly
basis, so some of the ships would literally line up outside New York on the
last day of the month and wait for 12 midnight and then sail into the harbor
trying to be the first ship to arrive. In some cases the quotas were so small
that a single ship could fill a country's quota for the entire month!

Allan Jordan

aejordan@aol.com

In a message dated 99-02-25 00:17:32 EST, bobmar37@aol.com writes:

<< When I visited Ellis Island several years ago, I learned that first and
second class passengers were dropped off in Manhattan before ships left
the others at Ellis Island. Some who were rejected at Ellis Island
returned home and saved up enough money for a second class fare so they
could return and avoid the scrutiny at Ellis Island. >>


Yes that is basically correct. The way it actually worked is that the ships
anchored in the lower New York Harbor and a ferry came out >from Ellis Island
and took the people off. For years the ferry was half sunk sitting at Ellis
Island -- I saw it when I was there. The ship itself then continued on to the
piers in Hoboken or Manhattan or Brooklyn (depending on the shipping company)
and the people or class were processed there. By the way if the person was
returned to the home country it was at the cost of the shipping line. When
the immigration quotas were put in after World War I they were on a monthly
basis, so some of the ships would literally line up outside New York on the
last day of the month and wait for 12 midnight and then sail into the harbor
trying to be the first ship to arrive. In some cases the quotas were so small
that a single ship could fill a country's quota for the entire month!

Allan Jordan

aejordan@aol.com

Any information on this person, who was taken >from her home during WW2, in
the city of Chrzanow, Poland. Mother's name was WASSERTEIL (?) Had several
sisters, including Reisel, Chana, and half siblings.

Thank you.

Irving Wiener
W874@aol.com

Any information on this person, who was taken >from her home during WW2, in
the city of Chrzanow, Poland. Mother's name was WASSERTEIL (?) Had several
sisters, including Reisel, Chana, and half siblings.

Thank you.

Irving Wiener
W874@aol.com

Some of my SIVAK (see-vock) ancestors may have worked as paint
manufacturers and painters in Biala Podlaska, Lomza and other communities
between Warsaw and Kiev.

It seems as if exterior paint was one of the high-technology industries of
the 19th century. Have other people here found that your ancestors were
paint manufacturers in the Pale? If so, have you noticed any patterns in
migration, selection of marriage partners, etc. connected with the
development of the paint industry?

Al Bell
Helsinki, Finland

Some of my SIVAK (see-vock) ancestors may have worked as paint
manufacturers and painters in Biala Podlaska, Lomza and other communities
between Warsaw and Kiev.

It seems as if exterior paint was one of the high-technology industries of
the 19th century. Have other people here found that your ancestors were
paint manufacturers in the Pale? If so, have you noticed any patterns in
migration, selection of marriage partners, etc. connected with the
development of the paint industry?

Al Bell
Helsinki, Finland

from Tom V.

Visit >http://www.calle.com/world/index.html

a site which features a Global Gazetteer for over 2.8 million towns all
around the world, sorted by countries, each place linked to a map (which is >not very good). The searching method is also combursome, still IMHO an
excellent starting point for checking your shtetls :)

FYI. This site is now linked to the H-SIG internet links web page.

Marc Polster,
H-SIG Webmaster


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>

mod.- A link to Tom's enhanced web site is a new addition to the h-sig website

Interesting sites: