Date   

Re: Reported ages on Passenger Lists #general

Willie46 <willie46@...>
 

Marc Erlitz asked: >what factors may have been operant during the late 19th
and early 20th centuries (such as fare structures, government regulations,
etc.) that may have led immigrants to falsify their ages.
The immigration of my mother and her two brothers in 1923 >from Hamburg
exemplifies this question.

All documents, including Polish birth certificates, parent's Petitions for
Naturalization, and Social Security Applications show Leizor born in March
1908, Nechama in November 1910, and Lieb in February 1912. On my grandmothers
Polish passport, issued in August 1922, these kinder were listed respectively
as 14, 9, and 8 years old. Their actual ages were 14, 11, and 10.

My grandfather was already in the US, earning the money to bring his family
across. It appears that my grandmother lied in her application for the
passport. I assume that the motivation was to save money and emigrate sooner.

Can some knowledgable people help me with two questions: 1) What were the risks
if caught lying on your passport application in Russian Poland in the 1920s?
and 2) Were the steerage fares >from Hamburg to NY discounted for passengers
below the age of 10?

Thanks
Mark Halpern
Hermosa Beach, CA


Origin of HECHT name #general

MBernet@...
 

As I recall, HECHT is German for "shark" or possibly "hake" (an Atlantic fish
akin to cod)

What is the origin of the popular Jewish family name, HECHT?

Thank you

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth; JONDORF, Bavaria
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF, Aron married Babette GOLDSCHMIDT ca 1860 in Frankfurt;
WOLF, Sali, b. Fkfrt, d. Rotterrdam 1941/2; WOLF, GOLDSCHMIDT, Wurzburg


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Reported ages on Passenger Lists #general

Willie46 <willie46@...>
 

Marc Erlitz asked: >what factors may have been operant during the late 19th
and early 20th centuries (such as fare structures, government regulations,
etc.) that may have led immigrants to falsify their ages.
The immigration of my mother and her two brothers in 1923 >from Hamburg
exemplifies this question.

All documents, including Polish birth certificates, parent's Petitions for
Naturalization, and Social Security Applications show Leizor born in March
1908, Nechama in November 1910, and Lieb in February 1912. On my grandmothers
Polish passport, issued in August 1922, these kinder were listed respectively
as 14, 9, and 8 years old. Their actual ages were 14, 11, and 10.

My grandfather was already in the US, earning the money to bring his family
across. It appears that my grandmother lied in her application for the
passport. I assume that the motivation was to save money and emigrate sooner.

Can some knowledgable people help me with two questions: 1) What were the risks
if caught lying on your passport application in Russian Poland in the 1920s?
and 2) Were the steerage fares >from Hamburg to NY discounted for passengers
below the age of 10?

Thanks
Mark Halpern
Hermosa Beach, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Origin of HECHT name #general

MBernet@...
 

As I recall, HECHT is German for "shark" or possibly "hake" (an Atlantic fish
akin to cod)

What is the origin of the popular Jewish family name, HECHT?

Thank you

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth; JONDORF, Bavaria
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF, Aron married Babette GOLDSCHMIDT ca 1860 in Frankfurt;
WOLF, Sali, b. Fkfrt, d. Rotterrdam 1941/2; WOLF, GOLDSCHMIDT, Wurzburg


Evolution of a Surname #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Last year I posted a question regarding the surname of my maternal great
grandmother. Some very nice gentleman sent me a complete explanation of
how it started out as BIALAGORSKY and wound up as LEVINSKY and then to
LEVINE. [Something like Bialagorsky means "white mountains" thence to
Levinsky which means about the same in another language, then just
shortened to Levine -- or something like that. I know it contained a
translation >from two or three languages before getting to English.]

When my computer "fried" last November, I lost LOTS of email notes I'd
saved to my hard drive, but neglected to back up on a diskette (let that
be a lesson to you all). I also cannot find the printed out copy of the
post (shame on me for not putting things back where they belong). Let
my misfortune be a lesson to you all. We never think it will happen to
us, and then when you least expect a problem, there it goes -- up in
smoke!

So, if anyone remembers sending me this information and recalls what he
told me, PLEASE won't you send me that information once again? And, if
YOU aren't that person but you do know how that evolution of a name came
about, PLEASE won't you let me know. This time I PROMISE to take much
better care of the information (I'll back it up AND print out a new hard
copy of it and put both in safe places where they won't "disappear"
again). I PROMISE!

Thanks so much,

(Mrs.) Ricki Randall Zunk
Kendall (Miami), FL
USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Evolution of a Surname #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Last year I posted a question regarding the surname of my maternal great
grandmother. Some very nice gentleman sent me a complete explanation of
how it started out as BIALAGORSKY and wound up as LEVINSKY and then to
LEVINE. [Something like Bialagorsky means "white mountains" thence to
Levinsky which means about the same in another language, then just
shortened to Levine -- or something like that. I know it contained a
translation >from two or three languages before getting to English.]

When my computer "fried" last November, I lost LOTS of email notes I'd
saved to my hard drive, but neglected to back up on a diskette (let that
be a lesson to you all). I also cannot find the printed out copy of the
post (shame on me for not putting things back where they belong). Let
my misfortune be a lesson to you all. We never think it will happen to
us, and then when you least expect a problem, there it goes -- up in
smoke!

So, if anyone remembers sending me this information and recalls what he
told me, PLEASE won't you send me that information once again? And, if
YOU aren't that person but you do know how that evolution of a name came
about, PLEASE won't you let me know. This time I PROMISE to take much
better care of the information (I'll back it up AND print out a new hard
copy of it and put both in safe places where they won't "disappear"
again). I PROMISE!

Thanks so much,

(Mrs.) Ricki Randall Zunk
Kendall (Miami), FL
USA


Meaning of the word Munkacs #hungary

Dennis Baer <dbaer@...>
 

Hello

I have not asked this question before and I want to learn the meaning of the
word Munkacs. Can someone tell me what it means?

Thank you.

Dennis


Hungary SIG #Hungary Meaning of the word Munkacs #hungary

Dennis Baer <dbaer@...>
 

Hello

I have not asked this question before and I want to learn the meaning of the
word Munkacs. Can someone tell me what it means?

Thank you.

Dennis


Searching for Gunsler or Gansler #hungary

Peter Garas <pgaras@...>
 

Dear Colleagues,

I have a medal,allegedly awarded to my Great Grandfather by the
Pope (yes that's right!) called the Pro Petri Sede. According to
some contacts I made with the Papal Nuncio it was awarded to the
participants in a battle between the papal armies and the
Piedmontese on 18 September 1860 at Castelfidardo. Given this
level of detail and knowing that my Great Grandfather was called
Simon G=E4nsler born in Lwov or Lemberg in 1833 SHOULD enable
me go somewhere and find a record which can take me further.
Well, I have tried the Military archive in Vienna personally - no luck.
I have been in rome Italy and tried to get an appointment with the
Dirretore of the archives there because the data may well be in
those archives. I have searched high and low for any record
of the battle and to date am stuck.

I understand >from looking at the records of his SON Jozsef Cevi
G=E4nsler, my grandfather on my father's side that he was
married to Matild Reitzer.

Having just completed the reading of documentation pertaining to
naming conventions in the area I am now acutely aware that very
close to the alleged birth date of my great grandfather people were
required to obtain surnames and that in the area of Galicia it is
likely that the surnames given or acquired were 'germanised' hence
Gunsler or Gansler with the a having and umlaut. I suppose it could
have been spelt as Genzler or Gaensler or indeed in the cyrillic.

I don't know. All that I can tell is that my grandfather was certainly
Gunsler as was my father.


any information >from anyone anywhere which can assist me in
carrying on the research would be much appreciated.
On my mother's side of the family most of the people I can locate
were >from around Nyiregyhaza and the names I am researching
there are Ganzfried changed to Gergely, Fischer, Falus and Zalka.

Looking forward hopefully to some replies.


Peter
Peter Garas BA, B Soc Stud, MSW, MAASW
3 Blinkhorn Place, Gordon, ACT 2906 Australia
pgaras@ozemail.com.au (h) Peter.Garas@centrelink.gov.au (w)
+61-2-62942170 (h) +61-2-62446898 (w)


Re: Slavintich and Ciedlce, Poland #general

armata@...
 

In article <36679137.309AE43D@burgoyne.com>, wilkfamo@burgoyne.com (Linda Wilkins) writes:
Can someone help me with the following:
My pgf came >from a small village
20 miles >from Slavintich, Poland. The name of the village he said was
Ciedlce.....
Questions: How can I find the village? What do the following mean in
Europe? shetl, gubneria,Province?
Hi! These are possibly the town of Slawiecice, located about 15 miles WNW of
Gliwice and about 10 miles E of Kedzierzyn-Kozle, in southern Poland, and
the village of Siedlec, located about 15 miles NW of Slawiecice and about
10 miles W of Strzelce Opolskie.

These are all W >from Krakow, and SE >from Opole. Gliwice is right next to
Katowice.

A gubernia is the Russian term for a province, sometimes also translated as
a county.

Hope this is helpful,

Joe Armata
armata@vms.cis.pitt.edu


Hungary SIG #Hungary Searching for Gunsler or Gansler #hungary

Peter Garas <pgaras@...>
 

Dear Colleagues,

I have a medal,allegedly awarded to my Great Grandfather by the
Pope (yes that's right!) called the Pro Petri Sede. According to
some contacts I made with the Papal Nuncio it was awarded to the
participants in a battle between the papal armies and the
Piedmontese on 18 September 1860 at Castelfidardo. Given this
level of detail and knowing that my Great Grandfather was called
Simon G=E4nsler born in Lwov or Lemberg in 1833 SHOULD enable
me go somewhere and find a record which can take me further.
Well, I have tried the Military archive in Vienna personally - no luck.
I have been in rome Italy and tried to get an appointment with the
Dirretore of the archives there because the data may well be in
those archives. I have searched high and low for any record
of the battle and to date am stuck.

I understand >from looking at the records of his SON Jozsef Cevi
G=E4nsler, my grandfather on my father's side that he was
married to Matild Reitzer.

Having just completed the reading of documentation pertaining to
naming conventions in the area I am now acutely aware that very
close to the alleged birth date of my great grandfather people were
required to obtain surnames and that in the area of Galicia it is
likely that the surnames given or acquired were 'germanised' hence
Gunsler or Gansler with the a having and umlaut. I suppose it could
have been spelt as Genzler or Gaensler or indeed in the cyrillic.

I don't know. All that I can tell is that my grandfather was certainly
Gunsler as was my father.


any information >from anyone anywhere which can assist me in
carrying on the research would be much appreciated.
On my mother's side of the family most of the people I can locate
were >from around Nyiregyhaza and the names I am researching
there are Ganzfried changed to Gergely, Fischer, Falus and Zalka.

Looking forward hopefully to some replies.


Peter
Peter Garas BA, B Soc Stud, MSW, MAASW
3 Blinkhorn Place, Gordon, ACT 2906 Australia
pgaras@ozemail.com.au (h) Peter.Garas@centrelink.gov.au (w)
+61-2-62942170 (h) +61-2-62446898 (w)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Slavintich and Ciedlce, Poland #general

armata@...
 

In article <36679137.309AE43D@burgoyne.com>, wilkfamo@burgoyne.com (Linda Wilkins) writes:
Can someone help me with the following:
My pgf came >from a small village
20 miles >from Slavintich, Poland. The name of the village he said was
Ciedlce.....
Questions: How can I find the village? What do the following mean in
Europe? shetl, gubneria,Province?
Hi! These are possibly the town of Slawiecice, located about 15 miles WNW of
Gliwice and about 10 miles E of Kedzierzyn-Kozle, in southern Poland, and
the village of Siedlec, located about 15 miles NW of Slawiecice and about
10 miles W of Strzelce Opolskie.

These are all W >from Krakow, and SE >from Opole. Gliwice is right next to
Katowice.

A gubernia is the Russian term for a province, sometimes also translated as
a county.

Hope this is helpful,

Joe Armata
armata@vms.cis.pitt.edu


Re: h-sig digest: February 08, 1999 #hungary

Mehadrin@...
 

Louis S. wrote (Biz hindert und tzvanzig, birthday boy!):
Furthermore, some of the town names may have been used exclusively by the
Jewish community there, and are not generally familiar to us. The goal is to

identify each town name shown with its contemporary equivalent. In order to


At the beginning of Y.Y. Cohen's book Chachmei Hungaria (published by Machon
Yerusholayim a couple of years ago) is a table of place names in Hungary;
Hebrew name and spelling/German name and spelling/Hungarian. It includes
almost all towns mentioned in rabbinic literature. I have xeroxed the four or
five pages and use them as a constant reference.
Rabbi A Marmorstein


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: h-sig digest: February 08, 1999 #hungary

Mehadrin@...
 

Louis S. wrote (Biz hindert und tzvanzig, birthday boy!):
Furthermore, some of the town names may have been used exclusively by the
Jewish community there, and are not generally familiar to us. The goal is to

identify each town name shown with its contemporary equivalent. In order to


At the beginning of Y.Y. Cohen's book Chachmei Hungaria (published by Machon
Yerusholayim a couple of years ago) is a table of place names in Hungary;
Hebrew name and spelling/German name and spelling/Hungarian. It includes
almost all towns mentioned in rabbinic literature. I have xeroxed the four or
five pages and use them as a constant reference.
Rabbi A Marmorstein


Name decree of 1787. #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

Emperor Joseph II issued an order for Jews to take pernament names on July 23,
1787. I did a rough translation of the decree. Source: _Bergl Jozsef, A
magyarorszagi zsidok tortenete._ Kaposvar 1879. Reprinted Kaposvar, n.d.

THIS IS THE ACTUAL TRANSLATION OF THE DECREE!

§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§

1. §. All the Jews living in the provinces are ordered, that all heads of households
for their families, custodians for children in custody, all unwed young men, who
are not under the power of their father or custody, must adopt a definite family
name (Vorname) by January 1, 1788. Unwed young women shall take the name
of their fathers, married women shall take the name of their husbands; therefore
each and every person, w i t h o u t e x c e p t i o n are obliged to take a German
surname and keep it for life.

2. §. All previuosly used names, i.e. Jewish names denoting the place of birth or
residence are to be forgotten for good.

3. §. All heads of households who adopted names for themselves and for their
families, or individual, who adopted names for themselves, must register their
surnames and personal names by the last day of November 1787 in German
(language) to those town or village authorities, where they live or their residential
permit is valid. The registration form does not need stamps, but must be signed
by the representative of the district and district or chief rabbi.

4. §. >from the beginning of January of 1787, the birth and circumcision records
must be kept in German, in the same way: all birth, marriage and death records
must contain German surnames and personal names.

5. §. The registration forms mentioned in 3. §. must be preserved by the
authorities and during conscription must be handed over to the conscription
official, so that these names are recorded, during the first time including the old
names, in special books.

6. §. (This paragraph stipulates that the adoption of new names does not effect
the validity of documents created before this decree.)

7. §. (This paragraph contains punishments for breaching the degree. A Jew not
using his/her new name could be punished with expulsion, if it was found out for
the second time. Rabbis were also punishable for not keeping the books in
German. The half of the income >from these punishments went to the city or village
authorities, the other half was given to those who reported others for not
conforming with the decree.)

It was signed by Mihaly Blaisics, Jozsef Gy. Szabo, Emp. Joseph II and count
Karoly Palffy.
--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungary

ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com

Researching: WURM, HOLLANDER, KONIGSTEIN, FEIN, POLLAK, REICH,
BARANY, CUCAK, DRACH, PURJESZ, PORGES/Z, PORJES/Z, BISCHITZ,
GOLDSCHMIED, IRITZ, SOMMER


Hungary SIG #Hungary Name decree of 1787. #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

Emperor Joseph II issued an order for Jews to take pernament names on July 23,
1787. I did a rough translation of the decree. Source: _Bergl Jozsef, A
magyarorszagi zsidok tortenete._ Kaposvar 1879. Reprinted Kaposvar, n.d.

THIS IS THE ACTUAL TRANSLATION OF THE DECREE!

§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§

1. §. All the Jews living in the provinces are ordered, that all heads of households
for their families, custodians for children in custody, all unwed young men, who
are not under the power of their father or custody, must adopt a definite family
name (Vorname) by January 1, 1788. Unwed young women shall take the name
of their fathers, married women shall take the name of their husbands; therefore
each and every person, w i t h o u t e x c e p t i o n are obliged to take a German
surname and keep it for life.

2. §. All previuosly used names, i.e. Jewish names denoting the place of birth or
residence are to be forgotten for good.

3. §. All heads of households who adopted names for themselves and for their
families, or individual, who adopted names for themselves, must register their
surnames and personal names by the last day of November 1787 in German
(language) to those town or village authorities, where they live or their residential
permit is valid. The registration form does not need stamps, but must be signed
by the representative of the district and district or chief rabbi.

4. §. >from the beginning of January of 1787, the birth and circumcision records
must be kept in German, in the same way: all birth, marriage and death records
must contain German surnames and personal names.

5. §. The registration forms mentioned in 3. §. must be preserved by the
authorities and during conscription must be handed over to the conscription
official, so that these names are recorded, during the first time including the old
names, in special books.

6. §. (This paragraph stipulates that the adoption of new names does not effect
the validity of documents created before this decree.)

7. §. (This paragraph contains punishments for breaching the degree. A Jew not
using his/her new name could be punished with expulsion, if it was found out for
the second time. Rabbis were also punishable for not keeping the books in
German. The half of the income >from these punishments went to the city or village
authorities, the other half was given to those who reported others for not
conforming with the decree.)

It was signed by Mihaly Blaisics, Jozsef Gy. Szabo, Emp. Joseph II and count
Karoly Palffy.
--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungary

ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com

Researching: WURM, HOLLANDER, KONIGSTEIN, FEIN, POLLAK, REICH,
BARANY, CUCAK, DRACH, PURJESZ, PORGES/Z, PORJES/Z, BISCHITZ,
GOLDSCHMIED, IRITZ, SOMMER


Re: Abraham STERLING and Nottinghill Shul, London #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I just learned that my gg-uncle, Abraham STERLING, was a founding member
of the Nottinghill Shul somewhere in London, England. Does anyone know how
to proceed in obtaining information about him >from the Shul or other
related organization (address, phone, contact name, etc.)?
Sounds to me like your gg uncle was a member of the Federation of
Synagogues (and not the United Synagogue). The Notting Hill Synagogue is a
constituent member of the Federation. Try writing to:

The Secretary,
Notting Hill Synagogue
206-208 Kensington Park Road
London W. 11
England

Or you could try the Federations' Headquarters:

Federation of Synagogues
65 Watford Way
London NW4 3AQ
ENGLand
Phone 0181-202-3903. Fax 0181 203-0610

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Abraham STERLING and Nottinghill Shul, London #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I just learned that my gg-uncle, Abraham STERLING, was a founding member
of the Nottinghill Shul somewhere in London, England. Does anyone know how
to proceed in obtaining information about him >from the Shul or other
related organization (address, phone, contact name, etc.)?
Sounds to me like your gg uncle was a member of the Federation of
Synagogues (and not the United Synagogue). The Notting Hill Synagogue is a
constituent member of the Federation. Try writing to:

The Secretary,
Notting Hill Synagogue
206-208 Kensington Park Road
London W. 11
England

Or you could try the Federations' Headquarters:

Federation of Synagogues
65 Watford Way
London NW4 3AQ
ENGLand
Phone 0181-202-3903. Fax 0181 203-0610

Judith Romney Wegner


Searching Krakauer Friends #general

ADELE WITROCK <adelewitrock2425@...>
 

Does anybody have any information about Krakauer Friends?
My father died in 1945 and was buried at Mt. Hebron Cemetery, Queens,
NYC. His cemetery deed refers to that organization.
I called Mt. Hebron Cemetery and they tell me that the Krakauer
Friends has been disbanded. I hope they have turned the records over
to some individuals or to another organization.


Adele Witrock
Longboat Key, FL

MODERATOR NOTE: Please consult our InfoFiles at
http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/landshaf.txt


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching Krakauer Friends #general

ADELE WITROCK <adelewitrock2425@...>
 

Does anybody have any information about Krakauer Friends?
My father died in 1945 and was buried at Mt. Hebron Cemetery, Queens,
NYC. His cemetery deed refers to that organization.
I called Mt. Hebron Cemetery and they tell me that the Krakauer
Friends has been disbanded. I hope they have turned the records over
to some individuals or to another organization.


Adele Witrock
Longboat Key, FL

MODERATOR NOTE: Please consult our InfoFiles at
http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/landshaf.txt