Date   

Viewing Hebrew characters #general

Ruth Grant <rgrant1@...>
 

If you would like your browser to have the ability to read Hebrew letters
without translating them into computer garbage, there is a free download on
Sabranet. I ran into this quite by accident. While I had to figure out how
to install it (the instructions weren't 100% specific to my system), it is a
fairly easy install process. The necessary link is on the home page and
contains two files (if I remember correctly) to download.

http://www.sabra.net/

Ruth Grant
Scarborough, ME


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Viewing Hebrew characters #general

Ruth Grant <rgrant1@...>
 

If you would like your browser to have the ability to read Hebrew letters
without translating them into computer garbage, there is a free download on
Sabranet. I ran into this quite by accident. While I had to figure out how
to install it (the instructions weren't 100% specific to my system), it is a
fairly easy install process. The necessary link is on the home page and
contains two files (if I remember correctly) to download.

http://www.sabra.net/

Ruth Grant
Scarborough, ME


Re: Emancipation #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

"Magda Lapedus" <Magdil@worldnet.att.net> 1999.01.21. 16:20:15 -8h-kor irta:

To Tom Venetianer Jan 8.
I read a long chapter in the Encyclopedia Judaica, Volume He-Ir page
1090 about the emancipation of the Hungarian Jews between 1867-1914.
Eleanor Bien had asked about the reference of the Act of Emancipation
regarding requirement to adopt surnames. There was no mention about >
surname adoption in the above chapter.

Hungarian Jews were emancipated by the force of Law 1867:XVII.

In my rough translation:

1§. The Israelite population of the country is declared to hold all the civil and
political rights as the Christian population.
2§. All legislation, customs and decrees that contradicts this law are abbrogated.

Source of the Hungarian translation: Laszlo Gonda, A zsidosag Magyarorszagon.
1526-1945. Budapest 1992. p.270.

Original source: Csiky Kalman, et al: Corpus Juris Hungarici. 1836-1868.
Budapest, 1896. p. 354.

I believe that this happened during the reign of Joseph II. Emperor of
Austria-Hungary.
The decree of 1787 was issued by Joseph II., the Emperor of Austria
and King of Hungary. After his death most of his decrees were revoked.
--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungar
ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com


Re: Yiddish equivalents #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

I found Warren Blatt's newsgroup posting about Yiddish equivalents of
English names (and also his Avotaynu article) to be very interesting.
However, I did find that at some points he seemed to be saying that
names I thought were Yiddish were in fact Hebrew names. For example,

"For the English names you asked about, here are the corresponding
Hebrew names which I found in my tombstone study:

Louis -- 64% were Leib / Yehudah Leib / Arya Leib
24% were Eliezer (Lazer), 5% Lipman / Lipa,
2% Eliahu, 1% Levi, 1% Lemel, 2% other"

I have always thought that the names Leib (in its various
transliterations into English), Lazer, Lipman/Lipa, and Lemel were
really Yiddish names.

I do realize that frequently there was created a combination of Hebrew
and Yiddish names together for one person, such as Aryeh Leib or
Yehudah Leib, but I always thought that this was an audibly harmonius
combination of Hebrew and Yiddish names. Warren, were you saying that
you consider the above-mentioned names (Leib, Lazer, Lipman, Lipa,
Lemel, and other normally Yiddish names) to be also Hebrew names as
well? While there were many instances where our ancestors did use
their Yiddish names as if they were indeed Hebrew names (and your
finding them listed on tombstones is but one example), this was
probably the exception rather than the rule.

I believe that it is worthwhile to distinguish between several classes
of names as used by our ancestors, both before and after their
immigration to other countries:

1. Hebrew names (e.g., used in shul), like Aryeh and Avraham
2. Yiddish names, like Zelda, Golda, or Wulf
3. Secular, East European names, like Ovsei
4. East European (Yiddish) nicknames/diminutives, like Froim or Shaya
5. Anglicized Eastern European secular names, like Morris or Abraham
6. English nicknames, like Abe

Yiddish and secular names were very frequently used in contacts with
non-Jews and in civil documents (like Revision Lists), Hebrew names
less frequently.

As Warren has pointed out, name types 2, 3, or 4 are those one would
most likely find in the records we find in the East European archives.
We can usually only guess at what were the original Hebrew names of
our ancestors, using their listed Yiddish names as a starter. It is,
of course, very important to find the Hebrew names of our ancestors,
because it was (mostly) these names which were used to name a newly
born child after his/her dead ancestor, particularly in the case of
male infants who would eventually be called up to an aliya in the
shul.

Regards,

Jerry Esterson,
Ra'anana, Israel

wblatt@jewishgen.org (Warren Blatt) wrote:

There are no absolute "Yiddish equivalents" of any name.
Jewish immigrants >from Eastern Europe to America were free to
take any name they pleased after immigration. They would typically
chose an American name that sounded similar or starts with the same
first letter or sound as one of their Hebrew or Yiddish names, and
was fashionable at that time. There are no definitive rules for
these name transformations, only patterns, based on which English
names were popular in America at the time of immigration.
Remove "NOSPAM" >from the 'From:' address
Researching:
AIZIKOWITZ, MARCUS, MICHELOVICH, MIRVIS Baisogala, Datnuva Lithuania
ESTERSON, NORINSKY Berdichev Ukraine
KRETZMER, SWEETGALL Zhaimel, Birzai Lithuania
HELL, WAGENHEIM Riga, Bauske Latvia


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Emancipation #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

"Magda Lapedus" <Magdil@worldnet.att.net> 1999.01.21. 16:20:15 -8h-kor irta:

To Tom Venetianer Jan 8.
I read a long chapter in the Encyclopedia Judaica, Volume He-Ir page
1090 about the emancipation of the Hungarian Jews between 1867-1914.
Eleanor Bien had asked about the reference of the Act of Emancipation
regarding requirement to adopt surnames. There was no mention about >
surname adoption in the above chapter.

Hungarian Jews were emancipated by the force of Law 1867:XVII.

In my rough translation:

1§. The Israelite population of the country is declared to hold all the civil and
political rights as the Christian population.
2§. All legislation, customs and decrees that contradicts this law are abbrogated.

Source of the Hungarian translation: Laszlo Gonda, A zsidosag Magyarorszagon.
1526-1945. Budapest 1992. p.270.

Original source: Csiky Kalman, et al: Corpus Juris Hungarici. 1836-1868.
Budapest, 1896. p. 354.

I believe that this happened during the reign of Joseph II. Emperor of
Austria-Hungary.
The decree of 1787 was issued by Joseph II., the Emperor of Austria
and King of Hungary. After his death most of his decrees were revoked.
--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungar
ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Yiddish equivalents #general

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

I found Warren Blatt's newsgroup posting about Yiddish equivalents of
English names (and also his Avotaynu article) to be very interesting.
However, I did find that at some points he seemed to be saying that
names I thought were Yiddish were in fact Hebrew names. For example,

"For the English names you asked about, here are the corresponding
Hebrew names which I found in my tombstone study:

Louis -- 64% were Leib / Yehudah Leib / Arya Leib
24% were Eliezer (Lazer), 5% Lipman / Lipa,
2% Eliahu, 1% Levi, 1% Lemel, 2% other"

I have always thought that the names Leib (in its various
transliterations into English), Lazer, Lipman/Lipa, and Lemel were
really Yiddish names.

I do realize that frequently there was created a combination of Hebrew
and Yiddish names together for one person, such as Aryeh Leib or
Yehudah Leib, but I always thought that this was an audibly harmonius
combination of Hebrew and Yiddish names. Warren, were you saying that
you consider the above-mentioned names (Leib, Lazer, Lipman, Lipa,
Lemel, and other normally Yiddish names) to be also Hebrew names as
well? While there were many instances where our ancestors did use
their Yiddish names as if they were indeed Hebrew names (and your
finding them listed on tombstones is but one example), this was
probably the exception rather than the rule.

I believe that it is worthwhile to distinguish between several classes
of names as used by our ancestors, both before and after their
immigration to other countries:

1. Hebrew names (e.g., used in shul), like Aryeh and Avraham
2. Yiddish names, like Zelda, Golda, or Wulf
3. Secular, East European names, like Ovsei
4. East European (Yiddish) nicknames/diminutives, like Froim or Shaya
5. Anglicized Eastern European secular names, like Morris or Abraham
6. English nicknames, like Abe

Yiddish and secular names were very frequently used in contacts with
non-Jews and in civil documents (like Revision Lists), Hebrew names
less frequently.

As Warren has pointed out, name types 2, 3, or 4 are those one would
most likely find in the records we find in the East European archives.
We can usually only guess at what were the original Hebrew names of
our ancestors, using their listed Yiddish names as a starter. It is,
of course, very important to find the Hebrew names of our ancestors,
because it was (mostly) these names which were used to name a newly
born child after his/her dead ancestor, particularly in the case of
male infants who would eventually be called up to an aliya in the
shul.

Regards,

Jerry Esterson,
Ra'anana, Israel

wblatt@jewishgen.org (Warren Blatt) wrote:

There are no absolute "Yiddish equivalents" of any name.
Jewish immigrants >from Eastern Europe to America were free to
take any name they pleased after immigration. They would typically
chose an American name that sounded similar or starts with the same
first letter or sound as one of their Hebrew or Yiddish names, and
was fashionable at that time. There are no definitive rules for
these name transformations, only patterns, based on which English
names were popular in America at the time of immigration.
Remove "NOSPAM" >from the 'From:' address
Researching:
AIZIKOWITZ, MARCUS, MICHELOVICH, MIRVIS Baisogala, Datnuva Lithuania
ESTERSON, NORINSKY Berdichev Ukraine
KRETZMER, SWEETGALL Zhaimel, Birzai Lithuania
HELL, WAGENHEIM Riga, Bauske Latvia


Budapest Archives NE Slovakia (fwd) #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

Touvia Goldstein <touviagoldstein@yahoo.com> 1999.01.23. 00:05:57 -8h-kor
irta:

Hi Louis and SIG friends,

Just received an english answer >from the Budapest Archives refering to
NE Slovakia. I am posting the first initial part in order to someone
translate it and give the corresponding explainations for the benefit
of all. Please, forgive any mistakes it is very difficult to write
slovakian and/or hungarian when some one doen't know the languages....

Thank you and Shabat Shalom,

Touvia Goldstein

MAGYAR ORSZÁGOS LEVÉLTAR
Budapest 1, Bécsi Kapu Tér 4,
150 Budapest 1, Posttafiók 3,

Státny oblastny archiv v Presove (Eperjes) Teruleti Allami Levéltár
Eperjes Regional State Archives

Kozigazgatás
Public administration

Sarisska zupa (Sáros megye levéltára)
Archives of Saros county

Kongregacné pisomnosti (Saros megyé nemesi Kozgyulése)
Documents pertaining the Assembly of Saros nobility

Kongregacné spicy (Kozgulesi iratok) - R
Documents of the Saros county Assembly

Kongregacné protokoly (Kozgyulési jegyokonyvek)
Protocols/minutes of the Saros county Assembly

Acta politica - Kuruc Felkelésekre Rackózzi szabadságharcra vonatkozó iratok
Documents referring to Rakoczi/kuruc rebellion

--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungary

ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com

Researching: WURM, HOLLANDER, KONIGSTEIN, FEIN, POLLAK, REICH,
BARANY, CUCAK, DRACH, PURJESZ, PORGES/Z, PORJES/Z, BISCHITZ,
GOLDSCHMIED, IRITZ, SOMMER


Hungary SIG #Hungary Budapest Archives NE Slovakia (fwd) #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

Touvia Goldstein <touviagoldstein@yahoo.com> 1999.01.23. 00:05:57 -8h-kor
irta:

Hi Louis and SIG friends,

Just received an english answer >from the Budapest Archives refering to
NE Slovakia. I am posting the first initial part in order to someone
translate it and give the corresponding explainations for the benefit
of all. Please, forgive any mistakes it is very difficult to write
slovakian and/or hungarian when some one doen't know the languages....

Thank you and Shabat Shalom,

Touvia Goldstein

MAGYAR ORSZÁGOS LEVÉLTAR
Budapest 1, Bécsi Kapu Tér 4,
150 Budapest 1, Posttafiók 3,

Státny oblastny archiv v Presove (Eperjes) Teruleti Allami Levéltár
Eperjes Regional State Archives

Kozigazgatás
Public administration

Sarisska zupa (Sáros megye levéltára)
Archives of Saros county

Kongregacné pisomnosti (Saros megyé nemesi Kozgyulése)
Documents pertaining the Assembly of Saros nobility

Kongregacné spicy (Kozgulesi iratok) - R
Documents of the Saros county Assembly

Kongregacné protokoly (Kozgyulési jegyokonyvek)
Protocols/minutes of the Saros county Assembly

Acta politica - Kuruc Felkelésekre Rackózzi szabadságharcra vonatkozó iratok
Documents referring to Rakoczi/kuruc rebellion

--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungary

ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com

Researching: WURM, HOLLANDER, KONIGSTEIN, FEIN, POLLAK, REICH,
BARANY, CUCAK, DRACH, PURJESZ, PORGES/Z, PORJES/Z, BISCHITZ,
GOLDSCHMIED, IRITZ, SOMMER


Re: Markbreiter in Vienna #hungary

MILTGOLD@...
 

For possible use as a related note to Markbreiter research:

Jerry Markbreit is a very well-known National Football League referee, and has
even written a book about his over 30 years of being a top
referee/professional football official. He's about to retire this year from
that job. If necessary, he probably could be contacted through the NFL.com
web site or their offices in New York City.

Milton Goldsamt
Silver Spring, MD
miltgold@aol.com


New publications #general

Stefan Pinkus <webmaster@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

We have added the following publications to our page with publications
by society members (http://www.nljewgen.org/biblmemb.html):

"Matsewa, Jewish cemeteries on Voorne-Putten; Geervliet and Zuidland"
by Riet de Leeuw van Weenen - v.d. Hoek. Photographs and translations
of 84 gravestones in Geervliet and 5 in Zuidland and names of over 500
Jews who died between 1781 and 1940, 298 pages, 150 illustrations,
ISBN 90-9011494-7.

"The descendants of Wolff ben Eliazar and Moshe ben Gompertz HaLevie,
1695 - 1995" by Max Wolff is now available on CDROM. 300 years of
history and genealogical data of the ancestors of the author, with
details of the related families Wijsenbeek, Vorst, Israkls, Meiboom,
Kunstenaar and Bobbe.

Please bear in mind that, although we are happy to give these
publications special attention on our page, it is available as
indicated on the page and not >from our society, which is in no way
involved.

Stefan Pinkus


----------------------------------------
Netherlands Society for Jewish Genealogy
Nederlandse Kring voor Joodse Genealogie
http://www.nljewgen.org


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Markbreiter in Vienna #hungary

MILTGOLD@...
 

For possible use as a related note to Markbreiter research:

Jerry Markbreit is a very well-known National Football League referee, and has
even written a book about his over 30 years of being a top
referee/professional football official. He's about to retire this year from
that job. If necessary, he probably could be contacted through the NFL.com
web site or their offices in New York City.

Milton Goldsamt
Silver Spring, MD
miltgold@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen New publications #general

Stefan Pinkus <webmaster@...>
 

Dear JewishGenners,

We have added the following publications to our page with publications
by society members (http://www.nljewgen.org/biblmemb.html):

"Matsewa, Jewish cemeteries on Voorne-Putten; Geervliet and Zuidland"
by Riet de Leeuw van Weenen - v.d. Hoek. Photographs and translations
of 84 gravestones in Geervliet and 5 in Zuidland and names of over 500
Jews who died between 1781 and 1940, 298 pages, 150 illustrations,
ISBN 90-9011494-7.

"The descendants of Wolff ben Eliazar and Moshe ben Gompertz HaLevie,
1695 - 1995" by Max Wolff is now available on CDROM. 300 years of
history and genealogical data of the ancestors of the author, with
details of the related families Wijsenbeek, Vorst, Israkls, Meiboom,
Kunstenaar and Bobbe.

Please bear in mind that, although we are happy to give these
publications special attention on our page, it is available as
indicated on the page and not >from our society, which is in no way
involved.

Stefan Pinkus


----------------------------------------
Netherlands Society for Jewish Genealogy
Nederlandse Kring voor Joodse Genealogie
http://www.nljewgen.org


Re: "Registry of Jewish Holocaust Survivors" and Hungarian search engine #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Daniel Kazez schrieb:

I have secured, via interlibrary loan, the following book:

Registry of Holocaust Survivors

It lists 100,000 people, as of 1995. This book should be
available at your library with the information listed below.
If any of you would like, I would be glad to look up names.
The book lists only names and cities (prewar, pastwar).

A different subject:

There is a hungarian (AltaVista) search engine, where you can find
hungarian and also Holocaust related information (everything you expect
from a searching engine):
http://www.altavizsla.matav.hu
(the word vizsla comes >from the a hungarian huntingdog).

I found very usefull Janos Bogardi / RADIX homepage with many helpfull
links.

http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g060.htm -> Archives and other

Give them a try.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


<HTML>

<P>&nbsp; Registry of Holocaust Survivors

<P>It lists 100,000 people, as of 1995.&nbsp; This book should be
<BR>available at your library with the information listed below.


<P>There is a hungarian (AltaVista) search engine, where you can find hungarian
and also Holocaust related information (everything you expect >from a searching
engine):

<P><A HREF="http://www.altavizsla.matav.hu">http://www.altavizsla.matav.hu</A>
<BR>(the word vizsla comes >from the a hungarian huntingdog).

<P>I found very usefull Janos Bogardi / RADIX homepage with many helpfull
links.

<P><A HREF="http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g060.htm">http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g060.htm</A>
-> Archives and other

<P>Give them a try.

<P>Best regards
<BR>Gabor Hirsch</HTML>


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: "Registry of Jewish Holocaust Survivors" and Hungarian search engine #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Daniel Kazez schrieb:

I have secured, via interlibrary loan, the following book:

Registry of Holocaust Survivors

It lists 100,000 people, as of 1995. This book should be
available at your library with the information listed below.
If any of you would like, I would be glad to look up names.
The book lists only names and cities (prewar, pastwar).

A different subject:

There is a hungarian (AltaVista) search engine, where you can find
hungarian and also Holocaust related information (everything you expect
from a searching engine):
http://www.altavizsla.matav.hu
(the word vizsla comes >from the a hungarian huntingdog).

I found very usefull Janos Bogardi / RADIX homepage with many helpfull
links.

http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g060.htm -> Archives and other

Give them a try.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


<HTML>

<P>&nbsp; Registry of Holocaust Survivors

<P>It lists 100,000 people, as of 1995.&nbsp; This book should be
<BR>available at your library with the information listed below.


<P>There is a hungarian (AltaVista) search engine, where you can find hungarian
and also Holocaust related information (everything you expect >from a searching
engine):

<P><A HREF="http://www.altavizsla.matav.hu">http://www.altavizsla.matav.hu</A>
<BR>(the word vizsla comes >from the a hungarian huntingdog).

<P>I found very usefull Janos Bogardi / RADIX homepage with many helpfull
links.

<P><A HREF="http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g060.htm">http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g060.htm</A>
-> Archives and other

<P>Give them a try.

<P>Best regards
<BR>Gabor Hirsch</HTML>


Re: First name change records ? #general

Simon Kreindler <SimonKreindler@...>
 

It is possible that your GGgrandparents added the name ALTER (the "old
one") to your GGrandfather's name in order to fool the Angel of Death as
Michael Bernet has noted in his post0. In this way, the Angel is looking
for someone young but your GGrandfather is the "old one. This superstitious
belief was very common in Europe. See Warren Blatt's article in the most
recent issue of Avotaynu. Your GGrandfather may subsequently have kept the
letter A as a short form of this name.

Simon Kreindler


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First name change records ? #general

Simon Kreindler <SimonKreindler@...>
 

It is possible that your GGgrandparents added the name ALTER (the "old
one") to your GGrandfather's name in order to fool the Angel of Death as
Michael Bernet has noted in his post0. In this way, the Angel is looking
for someone young but your GGrandfather is the "old one. This superstitious
belief was very common in Europe. See Warren Blatt's article in the most
recent issue of Avotaynu. Your GGrandfather may subsequently have kept the
letter A as a short form of this name.

Simon Kreindler


Markbreiter in Vienna (fwd) #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

Georg Gaugusch <e9526666@student.tuwien.ac.at> 1999.01.22. 22:22:17
+1h-kor irta:

% Amalia Schey >from Guens

Guens or Koszeg was one of the oldest Jewish commmunities in Hungary, Jews
being expelled >from the town in 140 and 1565, but they were alllowed back
afterwards.

The family of Fulop Schey was one the important families there. He donated
enormous sums for the development of the city, besides giving generously to the
Jewish Community to build the presently still standing synagogue, and paying the
rabbi's salary out of his own pocket. He was the first Hungarian Jew, who
received Austrian nobility in 1859, and prefix Koromlai was added to his name.
Later he was raised to be a Baron (baro).

--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungary

ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com

Researching: WURM, HOLLANDER, KONIGSTEIN, FEIN, POLLAK, REICH,
BARANY, CUCAK, DRACH, PURJESZ, PORGES/Z, PORJES/Z, BISCHITZ,
GOLDSCHMIED, IRITZ, SOMMER


Hungary SIG #Hungary Markbreiter in Vienna (fwd) #hungary

Ujlaki Gyorgy <ujlaki.gyorgy@...>
 

Georg Gaugusch <e9526666@student.tuwien.ac.at> 1999.01.22. 22:22:17
+1h-kor irta:

% Amalia Schey >from Guens

Guens or Koszeg was one of the oldest Jewish commmunities in Hungary, Jews
being expelled >from the town in 140 and 1565, but they were alllowed back
afterwards.

The family of Fulop Schey was one the important families there. He donated
enormous sums for the development of the city, besides giving generously to the
Jewish Community to build the presently still standing synagogue, and paying the
rabbi's salary out of his own pocket. He was the first Hungarian Jew, who
received Austrian nobility in 1859, and prefix Koromlai was added to his name.
Later he was raised to be a Baron (baro).

--
Gyorgy Ujlaki, Budapest, Hungary

ujlaki.gyorgy@drotposta.hu, ujlaki_gyorgy@hotmail.com

Researching: WURM, HOLLANDER, KONIGSTEIN, FEIN, POLLAK, REICH,
BARANY, CUCAK, DRACH, PURJESZ, PORGES/Z, PORJES/Z, BISCHITZ,
GOLDSCHMIED, IRITZ, SOMMER


Re: "Kletnyetski" meaning #general

Stephen Warshall <s_warshall@...>
 

Sandy Eisen wrote:

Does anyone know the Russian/Polish translation of
the name "Kletnyetski" or "Klitnitski" ?
Beider derives a possible match "Klotnitskij" >from the Yiddish
"klotnik", meaning a "quarrelsome fellow".



Stephen Warshall <s_warshall@post.harvard.edu>
Gloucester, MA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "Kletnyetski" meaning #general

Stephen Warshall <s_warshall@...>
 

Sandy Eisen wrote:

Does anyone know the Russian/Polish translation of
the name "Kletnyetski" or "Klitnitski" ?
Beider derives a possible match "Klotnitskij" >from the Yiddish
"klotnik", meaning a "quarrelsome fellow".



Stephen Warshall <s_warshall@post.harvard.edu>
Gloucester, MA