Date   

Synagogue Marriages in England #general

Harold Pollins <pollins@...>
 

Regarding the current discussion may I suggest that we ought to be talking
of marriages in England & Wales, which has one legal system, and separate
it >from Scottish law.

There is an article on the former in two parts by Charles Tucker of the
Chief Rabbi's office which provides a background:
'Jewish Marriages and Divorces in England until 1940', in the Genealogists'
Magazine, volume 24 pp. 87-93 and 139-143 (September and December 1992). [I
found the journal on my local public library.]

There is very interesting material in an article by David Englander,
'Stille Huppah (Quiet Marriage) among Jewish immigrants in Britain', in The
Jewish Journal of Sociology, volume 34, no. 2, December 1992, pp. 85-109.
This is fully referenced. The law is often very curious. He states, for
example, that in the early years of this century 'where one of the parties
was resident in Scotland, the banns in respect of a Jewish marriage had
nevertheless to be proclaimed in the parish church.' His article and
Tucker's discuss the problems of marriage regulation involved when new
religious groups arrived in the country.

I'm afraid I've lost the thrust of the discussion on the Jewishgen list,
what exactly the points of difference are. As far as I know a Jewish
wedding (ie where both parties profess the Jewish religion) has not for
some years had to be performed within a synagogue but even before the
recent change in the law could be held in a
private house or any other building. I have in front of me the Jewish Year
Book for 1974 which summarises the marriage regulations for England &
Wales as they were thenm. It states that a Jewish wedding need not be held
in a synagogue but could be held in a private house or any other building.
It does not mention weddings in the open air although I'm sure these
happened - perhaps a huppa counted as a temporary building?

Advance notice of the wedding must be given to the Superintendent Registrar
of Births, Marriages and Deaths who issues a certificate. All documents
from the Superintendent Registrar must
be handed to the Synagogue Marriage Registrar. If the marriage is to be
held in a synagogue which is under the jurisdiction of the Chief Rabbi his
Authorisation of Marriage must be obtained (this has to be shown to the
Superintendent Registrar before his certificate can be issued.) . Charles
Tucker states that these authorisations began in 1845 and that up to the
date of his article (1992) 240,000 had been issued, copies of which are
held at the Office of the
Chief Rabbi.

After the ceremony the parties receive a ketubah and a copy of the civil
registration of the wedding. The latter registration is normally done, as
far as I know, by the synagogue marriage secretary. I haven't heard of the
Superintendent Registrar attending a wedding held under religious
auspices; but I may be misinformed.

Harold Pollins


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Synagogue Marriages in England #general

Harold Pollins <pollins@...>
 

Regarding the current discussion may I suggest that we ought to be talking
of marriages in England & Wales, which has one legal system, and separate
it >from Scottish law.

There is an article on the former in two parts by Charles Tucker of the
Chief Rabbi's office which provides a background:
'Jewish Marriages and Divorces in England until 1940', in the Genealogists'
Magazine, volume 24 pp. 87-93 and 139-143 (September and December 1992). [I
found the journal on my local public library.]

There is very interesting material in an article by David Englander,
'Stille Huppah (Quiet Marriage) among Jewish immigrants in Britain', in The
Jewish Journal of Sociology, volume 34, no. 2, December 1992, pp. 85-109.
This is fully referenced. The law is often very curious. He states, for
example, that in the early years of this century 'where one of the parties
was resident in Scotland, the banns in respect of a Jewish marriage had
nevertheless to be proclaimed in the parish church.' His article and
Tucker's discuss the problems of marriage regulation involved when new
religious groups arrived in the country.

I'm afraid I've lost the thrust of the discussion on the Jewishgen list,
what exactly the points of difference are. As far as I know a Jewish
wedding (ie where both parties profess the Jewish religion) has not for
some years had to be performed within a synagogue but even before the
recent change in the law could be held in a
private house or any other building. I have in front of me the Jewish Year
Book for 1974 which summarises the marriage regulations for England &
Wales as they were thenm. It states that a Jewish wedding need not be held
in a synagogue but could be held in a private house or any other building.
It does not mention weddings in the open air although I'm sure these
happened - perhaps a huppa counted as a temporary building?

Advance notice of the wedding must be given to the Superintendent Registrar
of Births, Marriages and Deaths who issues a certificate. All documents
from the Superintendent Registrar must
be handed to the Synagogue Marriage Registrar. If the marriage is to be
held in a synagogue which is under the jurisdiction of the Chief Rabbi his
Authorisation of Marriage must be obtained (this has to be shown to the
Superintendent Registrar before his certificate can be issued.) . Charles
Tucker states that these authorisations began in 1845 and that up to the
date of his article (1992) 240,000 had been issued, copies of which are
held at the Office of the
Chief Rabbi.

After the ceremony the parties receive a ketubah and a copy of the civil
registration of the wedding. The latter registration is normally done, as
far as I know, by the synagogue marriage secretary. I haven't heard of the
Superintendent Registrar attending a wedding held under religious
auspices; but I may be misinformed.

Harold Pollins


Searching: BYERS, Sztabin, Poland -> St. Louis, MO 1890 #general

MMerritt@...
 

Hi and Happy Thanksgiving to Jewish Gen,

Searching for BYERS family >from Sztabin, Poland who emigrated to St.
Louis, approximately 1890, and then to Oklahoma, Texas and beyond. If
you have information on Aryeh Leib BYERS, or relations, please send me
a note at:

Marian Merritt
Los Angeles, CA, USA
mmerritt@symantec.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: BYERS, Sztabin, Poland -> St. Louis, MO 1890 #general

MMerritt@...
 

Hi and Happy Thanksgiving to Jewish Gen,

Searching for BYERS family >from Sztabin, Poland who emigrated to St.
Louis, approximately 1890, and then to Oklahoma, Texas and beyond. If
you have information on Aryeh Leib BYERS, or relations, please send me
a note at:

Marian Merritt
Los Angeles, CA, USA
mmerritt@symantec.com


PITTSBURG PA CEMETARIES #general

Mark and Debbie Burr <ember@...>
 

Could someone let me know what Jewish cemetaries there are in Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania and how I can access information >from them. I am seeking
the burial place of my grandfather's sister. She does not appear to be
buried with the rest of the family in Detroit Michigan. Please reply
privately. Thankyou Debbie Burr, Forest Ontario Canada.

Mark Burr U.E. &
Debbie Burr
ember@xcelco.on.ca


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen PITTSBURG PA CEMETARIES #general

Mark and Debbie Burr <ember@...>
 

Could someone let me know what Jewish cemetaries there are in Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania and how I can access information >from them. I am seeking
the burial place of my grandfather's sister. She does not appear to be
buried with the rest of the family in Detroit Michigan. Please reply
privately. Thankyou Debbie Burr, Forest Ontario Canada.

Mark Burr U.E. &
Debbie Burr
ember@xcelco.on.ca


Re: Puzzles from the Arolsen records #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-11-26 22:15:12 EST, martha@bgumail.bgu.ac.il writes:

The question that was posted which in part read: "How did people prove
their identity in the 18th century when they moved to other >countries...?"
A couple of weeks ago I was examining the Arolsen records at Yad Vashem.
enabling me to look up some of my unique family names . . . The families
all originate in Germany.
==Best I can do is speculate. For a start, I've learned that there's
rarely such a thing as a "unique" family name. When a Jew adapted a
certain Hebrew name to make it an official family name. someone else on
the other side of Europe might have done the same. Some adopted names
after a profession or a village, or a popular "gentile" name, and I'll
be even money somebody else, somewhere else, did the same. And out
families spread out all over Europe in the second half of the 19th cent
and the beginning of the 20th.

There has never been a LEFOR or a LEVOR that I could not connect to the
family tree. And yet, there in the records I found a Martin LEFOR b. 15
May 1913 whose birthplace was marked Serbia/Yougoslavia. There were two
French LEFORs who were political prisoners and not marked as being
persecuted because they were Jews.
==Example: The children of the first wife of my mgm's brother Robert, who
were born in Upper Silesia, ended up in Yugoslavia in the 1920's-30's and
somehow survived the war there. The son of my pgm's brother Sali (Sali was
born in Germany, lived in Holland) was a sales rep for Sali's company in
Yugoslavia and made it to the USA apparently in the early dayof WWII

==I suggest you look up the French phone books. I'd guess there'd be more
than a handfuls of LeFour, Lefor, Levor--most of them probably not Jewish

Another unique name is HIMMELREICH.
==I recently saw a few Himmelreich's on a family tree >from Holland--sorry,
I didn't take notes but, obviously, it was not a unique name for German
Jews only. I'd guess, in fact, that it's originally a Christian name,
"Himmelreich" = "Kingdom of God"--I've never heard of anyone with a name
like "Malkhut Sham`ayim" in Hebrew.

For what reason could some people in this family have been arrested in
"Aktion 'Gittel'", sent to Buchenwald and then released within the next
few days?
==Perhaps they were able to prove they really were not Jews. There was a
large German-speaking population in the Baltic States. The local German
commander may have arrested anyone with a "Jewish" sounding name, or this
gentile Litvak may have been denounced by a neighbor for personal or political
reasons.

Some of them somehow took on Latvian nationality, or Dutch, or Youglavian,
or it said they were born in Ramuciai, Lithuania and they had Latvian
nationality or conversely it said they were born in Riga and had
Lithuanian nationality. Could all of this been a desperate attempt to
escape the Nazis and the information fabricated as they went along?
What would the fabrications have helped anyway?
==Sure people changed identity and origin. Many Jews survived by claiming
they were gentiles, often part of the German-speaking minority in an
occupied country. They were sent to work in German factories--but, at
least, they survived, or survived until their true identity was iscovered.
The lived in Lith but Latt nationality may have been a ruse to explain
why they didn't speak the local language too well, or know the local customs . . .

. . . I found a listing for the arrest of a citizen of New York City,
Louise LEVOR, who was my great grandmother. There was only one Louise
LEVOR in New York City and she was never put into a concentration camp.
==Perhaps her sister or her niece assumed the name and nationality--
perhaps ggm Levor even sent over her own passport--in the hope that as
an American she would be realtively safe (and many did survive by having
a different nationality, even Honduran).

==Never underestimate the inventive powere of Jews trying to escape
persecution and death. It may even be in our Genes. If you study Rabbi
Eckstein's History of the Jews of the former Duchy-Bishopric of Bamberg
you'll come up with hundreds of occasions in thre past 900+ years when
Jews were forcibly evicted >from village A, wandred on foot far away, and
then they or others seeped back slowly into village B. Sure was survival
of the fittest!

. . . Can anyone offer any plausible explanations for all these puzzles?
==Let's hear it for more plausible ones!

Michael Bernet, New York
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF: Frankfurt (Aron Wolf m. Babette Goldschmidt ca 1855) also in
Wurzburg, also Sali WOLF, Rotterdam


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Puzzles from the Arolsen records #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-11-26 22:15:12 EST, martha@bgumail.bgu.ac.il writes:

The question that was posted which in part read: "How did people prove
their identity in the 18th century when they moved to other >countries...?"
A couple of weeks ago I was examining the Arolsen records at Yad Vashem.
enabling me to look up some of my unique family names . . . The families
all originate in Germany.
==Best I can do is speculate. For a start, I've learned that there's
rarely such a thing as a "unique" family name. When a Jew adapted a
certain Hebrew name to make it an official family name. someone else on
the other side of Europe might have done the same. Some adopted names
after a profession or a village, or a popular "gentile" name, and I'll
be even money somebody else, somewhere else, did the same. And out
families spread out all over Europe in the second half of the 19th cent
and the beginning of the 20th.

There has never been a LEFOR or a LEVOR that I could not connect to the
family tree. And yet, there in the records I found a Martin LEFOR b. 15
May 1913 whose birthplace was marked Serbia/Yougoslavia. There were two
French LEFORs who were political prisoners and not marked as being
persecuted because they were Jews.
==Example: The children of the first wife of my mgm's brother Robert, who
were born in Upper Silesia, ended up in Yugoslavia in the 1920's-30's and
somehow survived the war there. The son of my pgm's brother Sali (Sali was
born in Germany, lived in Holland) was a sales rep for Sali's company in
Yugoslavia and made it to the USA apparently in the early dayof WWII

==I suggest you look up the French phone books. I'd guess there'd be more
than a handfuls of LeFour, Lefor, Levor--most of them probably not Jewish

Another unique name is HIMMELREICH.
==I recently saw a few Himmelreich's on a family tree >from Holland--sorry,
I didn't take notes but, obviously, it was not a unique name for German
Jews only. I'd guess, in fact, that it's originally a Christian name,
"Himmelreich" = "Kingdom of God"--I've never heard of anyone with a name
like "Malkhut Sham`ayim" in Hebrew.

For what reason could some people in this family have been arrested in
"Aktion 'Gittel'", sent to Buchenwald and then released within the next
few days?
==Perhaps they were able to prove they really were not Jews. There was a
large German-speaking population in the Baltic States. The local German
commander may have arrested anyone with a "Jewish" sounding name, or this
gentile Litvak may have been denounced by a neighbor for personal or political
reasons.

Some of them somehow took on Latvian nationality, or Dutch, or Youglavian,
or it said they were born in Ramuciai, Lithuania and they had Latvian
nationality or conversely it said they were born in Riga and had
Lithuanian nationality. Could all of this been a desperate attempt to
escape the Nazis and the information fabricated as they went along?
What would the fabrications have helped anyway?
==Sure people changed identity and origin. Many Jews survived by claiming
they were gentiles, often part of the German-speaking minority in an
occupied country. They were sent to work in German factories--but, at
least, they survived, or survived until their true identity was iscovered.
The lived in Lith but Latt nationality may have been a ruse to explain
why they didn't speak the local language too well, or know the local customs . . .

. . . I found a listing for the arrest of a citizen of New York City,
Louise LEVOR, who was my great grandmother. There was only one Louise
LEVOR in New York City and she was never put into a concentration camp.
==Perhaps her sister or her niece assumed the name and nationality--
perhaps ggm Levor even sent over her own passport--in the hope that as
an American she would be realtively safe (and many did survive by having
a different nationality, even Honduran).

==Never underestimate the inventive powere of Jews trying to escape
persecution and death. It may even be in our Genes. If you study Rabbi
Eckstein's History of the Jews of the former Duchy-Bishopric of Bamberg
you'll come up with hundreds of occasions in thre past 900+ years when
Jews were forcibly evicted >from village A, wandred on foot far away, and
then they or others seeped back slowly into village B. Sure was survival
of the fittest!

. . . Can anyone offer any plausible explanations for all these puzzles?
==Let's hear it for more plausible ones!

Michael Bernet, New York
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF: Frankfurt (Aron Wolf m. Babette Goldschmidt ca 1855) also in
Wurzburg, also Sali WOLF, Rotterdam


Besarabia #general

Howard M. Rensin <hrensin@...>
 

Can someone tell me where the area known as Besarabia was located
and during what period? Where would I find the genealogy records
for that area?
Howard

Howard M. Rensin, KC3D
Glenwood,MD,21738
hrensin@erols.com
Searching: RENSIN,RENZIN,KALLET,KALETZKY,KLIAZKO


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Besarabia #general

Howard M. Rensin <hrensin@...>
 

Can someone tell me where the area known as Besarabia was located
and during what period? Where would I find the genealogy records
for that area?
Howard

Howard M. Rensin, KC3D
Glenwood,MD,21738
hrensin@erols.com
Searching: RENSIN,RENZIN,KALLET,KALETZKY,KLIAZKO


Mistake should read Lebermann not Levermann #general

Scott Noar <sman@...>
 

Sorry for the mistake
Scott

Scott Noar wrote:

Is anyone familiar with the given name of Lebermann?

I have a Lebermann Noar who was Naturalized in Phila, Pa in 1878.
He was >from Russia and came over as a minor.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Mistake should read Lebermann not Levermann #general

Scott Noar <sman@...>
 

Sorry for the mistake
Scott

Scott Noar wrote:

Is anyone familiar with the given name of Lebermann?

I have a Lebermann Noar who was Naturalized in Phila, Pa in 1878.
He was >from Russia and came over as a minor.


Searching for ZIATZ family #general

Traci S. K. Thysell-McPherson <tracibear@...>
 

This would be my great step grandmother's family on my mother's mothers
side. I only have the name Mollie ZIATZ who married my great grandfather
Samuel SHOCHED. Any info. or leads on this family would be sincerely
appreciated.

Please email privately to Tracibear@juno.com

Happy Friday!
Traci :-)
Traci S. K. Thysell-McPherson


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching for ZIATZ family #general

Traci S. K. Thysell-McPherson <tracibear@...>
 

This would be my great step grandmother's family on my mother's mothers
side. I only have the name Mollie ZIATZ who married my great grandfather
Samuel SHOCHED. Any info. or leads on this family would be sincerely
appreciated.

Please email privately to Tracibear@juno.com

Happy Friday!
Traci :-)
Traci S. K. Thysell-McPherson


Re: HOUDINI genealogy #general

Candice Bradley and Daniel Byrne <djbyrne@...>
 

Yes --

I live in Appleton where Weiss was born and where his father, Abraham
Weiss, was the first rabbi. The Houdini museum is less than a mile
from my house. I also have some resources. What would you like to
know? I'd love to help out. Besides I think info on Erich Weiss's
genealogy might interest a lot of folks on JewishGen.

Candice Bradley
Appleton, WI

Jim Yarin wrote:

Does anyone have a pedigree or partial pedigree of Erich WEISS (Harry
HOUDINI)?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: HOUDINI genealogy #general

Candice Bradley and Daniel Byrne <djbyrne@...>
 

Yes --

I live in Appleton where Weiss was born and where his father, Abraham
Weiss, was the first rabbi. The Houdini museum is less than a mile
from my house. I also have some resources. What would you like to
know? I'd love to help out. Besides I think info on Erich Weiss's
genealogy might interest a lot of folks on JewishGen.

Candice Bradley
Appleton, WI

Jim Yarin wrote:

Does anyone have a pedigree or partial pedigree of Erich WEISS (Harry
HOUDINI)?


Galicia, Spain & Galicia, Poland #general

Ana Kurland <akur@...>
 

Is there any relationship between the 2 Galicias?

Ana M. Kurland


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Galicia, Spain & Galicia, Poland #general

Ana Kurland <akur@...>
 

Is there any relationship between the 2 Galicias?

Ana M. Kurland


Re: Searching family info on Moshe SHARETT (SHERTOK) #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-11-22 21:59:14 EST, you write:

I am searching family information on Moshe Sharett (former Prime
Minister of Israel). His original name was Shertok.

It was Tchertok before it became Shertok. A cousin of his, ordained as
a rabbi by JTS, probably in the 1960's, was at one point the editor of a
Jewish magazine and publishing house in NYC--can't recall the name but
it was affiliated with the Mapai movement in Israel.

This Tchertok cousin (I'm not quite sure of the spelling) lived in NYC 10
years ago in Washington Square Village (an apartment complex south of NYU),
and was an active member of the Conservative Synagogue of Fifth Ave (or Fifth Ave Cons Syn), at 11 East 11th Street, nyc 10003

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF: Frankfurt (Aron Wolf m. Babette Goldschmidt ca 1855) also in Wurzburg,also Sali WOLF, Rotterdam


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Searching family info on Moshe SHARETT (SHERTOK) #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-11-22 21:59:14 EST, you write:

I am searching family information on Moshe Sharett (former Prime
Minister of Israel). His original name was Shertok.

It was Tchertok before it became Shertok. A cousin of his, ordained as
a rabbi by JTS, probably in the 1960's, was at one point the editor of a
Jewish magazine and publishing house in NYC--can't recall the name but
it was affiliated with the Mapai movement in Israel.

This Tchertok cousin (I'm not quite sure of the spelling) lived in NYC 10
years ago in Washington Square Village (an apartment complex south of NYU),
and was an active member of the Conservative Synagogue of Fifth Ave (or Fifth Ave Cons Syn), at 11 East 11th Street, nyc 10003

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF: Frankfurt (Aron Wolf m. Babette Goldschmidt ca 1855) also in Wurzburg,also Sali WOLF, Rotterdam