Date   

Information on Vilna #lithuania

sjkmb4@...
 

My ggf Elias Resnick owned a boot/shoe factory on Zavalna Olitzer, Vilna.
Does anyone have any idea of the area where this was located in Vilna or where
I can get a map of about 1900 of the area showing streets?
Sherry Kamens-NJ
SJKMB4@aol.com

researching RESNICK, LIPMAN, in VILNIUS


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Information on Vilna #lithuania

sjkmb4@...
 

My ggf Elias Resnick owned a boot/shoe factory on Zavalna Olitzer, Vilna.
Does anyone have any idea of the area where this was located in Vilna or where
I can get a map of about 1900 of the area showing streets?
Sherry Kamens-NJ
SJKMB4@aol.com

researching RESNICK, LIPMAN, in VILNIUS


1999 #hungary

Lawrence Korman <korman3@...>
 

I have been quiet on this discussion group lately because I have been
up to my ears in a project for JRI-Poland.

However, I wanted to take a minute to wish you all a healthy and happy
1999, with much research success. This is a great forum, I look forward
to reading it every day, and I am excited about what we can contribute,
and are already contributing, to Hungarian-Jewish genealogy.

Shalom
Debbi Korman


Hungary SIG #Hungary 1999 #hungary

Lawrence Korman <korman3@...>
 

I have been quiet on this discussion group lately because I have been
up to my ears in a project for JRI-Poland.

However, I wanted to take a minute to wish you all a healthy and happy
1999, with much research success. This is a great forum, I look forward
to reading it every day, and I am excited about what we can contribute,
and are already contributing, to Hungarian-Jewish genealogy.

Shalom
Debbi Korman


Cecil does not translate into Hebrew! #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Does anybody know where the name Cecil came >from or what it translates into in
Hebrew? There are several Cecils in our family, which is originally from
Russia.

Thanks.
Judith Cooper
As pointed out numerous times on this Digest, a European name such as
Cecil does NOT normally "translate" into Hebrew. It was probably chosen
as a "soundalike" for some original ancestral Hebrew name -- which, since
Cecil contains the sound-elements "S" and "L", may have been SHeLomo or
SHemueL or YiSra'eL." But it could have been any number of other names, as
Cecil has no actual Hebrew equivalent.

When we speak of translating Jewish names, we normally mean >from Hebrew
and/or Yiddish to a European name, and NOT the other way around. Of
course, one CAN translate an English name into Hebrew, for instance, if you
start >from the position that you WANT to call your son "Wolf" in English,
this would translate into Ze'ev in Hebrew. But in Jewish tradition we do
not normally start >from that position, because the secular name was
NEVER primary, so we should never think in terms of "translating" an
English or European name into Hebrew. The LOGICAL questions to ask are
normally these: (1) ">from what Hebrew or Yiddish name might this secular
name have been derived" or (2) "For what Hebrew or Yiddish name might this
secular name have been selected as a "Soundalike."

In our century, much of the time, a Jew's European name is merely a
"soundalike" to the original Hebrew or Yiddish name, but has no other
connection with it. However, sometimes -- especially when the English or
European name is biblical in origin -- the name is a TRANSLITERATION (not
a "translation") of the original name, e.g., Isaac for Yitshaq, Rebecca for
Rivkah, Moses for Moshe, and so forth. As these examples show,
transliterations of Hebrew biblical names do not always represent the
original precisely; that is because in the earliest translation of the
Hebrew Bible (namely the Septuagint translation which dates back to the BCE
period), name transliterations were adapted to Greek alphabetic and phonic
requirements; and the Septuagint transliterations of names have been used
in almost all other Bible translations ever since.

It is important to use appropriate terms when alluding to the relationship
between an ancestor's Hebrew or Yiddish name and his or her secular name.
"TRANSLATION" connotes the actual MEANING of the name; "TRANSLITERATION"
connotes the representation of Hebrew alphabet letters in Roman (or
Russian, or Greek, or you-name-it) alphabet letters; and the use of a
"soundalike" is NEITHER "translation" NOR "transliteration." Nor is it
useful to think in terms of "translating" >from a secular name TO a Hebrew
name; if translation has occurred at all, it has usually happened the
other way around!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Cecil does not translate into Hebrew! #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Does anybody know where the name Cecil came >from or what it translates into in
Hebrew? There are several Cecils in our family, which is originally from
Russia.

Thanks.
Judith Cooper
As pointed out numerous times on this Digest, a European name such as
Cecil does NOT normally "translate" into Hebrew. It was probably chosen
as a "soundalike" for some original ancestral Hebrew name -- which, since
Cecil contains the sound-elements "S" and "L", may have been SHeLomo or
SHemueL or YiSra'eL." But it could have been any number of other names, as
Cecil has no actual Hebrew equivalent.

When we speak of translating Jewish names, we normally mean >from Hebrew
and/or Yiddish to a European name, and NOT the other way around. Of
course, one CAN translate an English name into Hebrew, for instance, if you
start >from the position that you WANT to call your son "Wolf" in English,
this would translate into Ze'ev in Hebrew. But in Jewish tradition we do
not normally start >from that position, because the secular name was
NEVER primary, so we should never think in terms of "translating" an
English or European name into Hebrew. The LOGICAL questions to ask are
normally these: (1) ">from what Hebrew or Yiddish name might this secular
name have been derived" or (2) "For what Hebrew or Yiddish name might this
secular name have been selected as a "Soundalike."

In our century, much of the time, a Jew's European name is merely a
"soundalike" to the original Hebrew or Yiddish name, but has no other
connection with it. However, sometimes -- especially when the English or
European name is biblical in origin -- the name is a TRANSLITERATION (not
a "translation") of the original name, e.g., Isaac for Yitshaq, Rebecca for
Rivkah, Moses for Moshe, and so forth. As these examples show,
transliterations of Hebrew biblical names do not always represent the
original precisely; that is because in the earliest translation of the
Hebrew Bible (namely the Septuagint translation which dates back to the BCE
period), name transliterations were adapted to Greek alphabetic and phonic
requirements; and the Septuagint transliterations of names have been used
in almost all other Bible translations ever since.

It is important to use appropriate terms when alluding to the relationship
between an ancestor's Hebrew or Yiddish name and his or her secular name.
"TRANSLATION" connotes the actual MEANING of the name; "TRANSLITERATION"
connotes the representation of Hebrew alphabet letters in Roman (or
Russian, or Greek, or you-name-it) alphabet letters; and the use of a
"soundalike" is NEITHER "translation" NOR "transliteration." Nor is it
useful to think in terms of "translating" >from a secular name TO a Hebrew
name; if translation has occurred at all, it has usually happened the
other way around!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


Re: Cecil corresponds to what? #general

MBernet@...
 

DialexLtd@AOL.COM writes:

<< Does anybody know where the name Cecil came >from or what it
translates into in Hebrew? There are several Cecils in our
family, which is originally >from Russia. >>

==Cecil comes >from Latin Caecilius and is thought to have meant "of
poor vision." That would make it appropriate for a Jewish woman
named Leah ("of poor vision") to be called Cecilia <g>

==Actually, in this case, you may not have to go to the Romans. Cecil
is usually pronounced See-sil. Which is exactly the same as the
Yiddish name Suessel or Zisel, meaning "sweet little one." a name many
of us have been called by adoring aunts and grandmothers while having
our cheeks tweaked.

I wish I could tell you more about the Suessels. There's an awful lot
on our family tree (in Frensdorf, Bavaria, 17th-18th cent., and I can't
yet figure out what they were called in Hebrew. Dictionaries of Jewish
first and last names posit many different names, none of which applies
properly. The best bet is that your Cecil (or an ancestor of his) was
adoringly called by his relatives.

But remember this truth: there is no direct correspondence between
Hebrew names (even Bibkical ones) and civil names. Cecil could have
been called in Hebrew anything >from Abraham to Zefaniya.

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF: Frankfurt (Aron Wolf m. Babette Goldschmidt ca 1860) also in
Wurzburg, also Sali WOLF, Rotterdam


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Cecil corresponds to what? #general

MBernet@...
 

DialexLtd@AOL.COM writes:

<< Does anybody know where the name Cecil came >from or what it
translates into in Hebrew? There are several Cecils in our
family, which is originally >from Russia. >>

==Cecil comes >from Latin Caecilius and is thought to have meant "of
poor vision." That would make it appropriate for a Jewish woman
named Leah ("of poor vision") to be called Cecilia <g>

==Actually, in this case, you may not have to go to the Romans. Cecil
is usually pronounced See-sil. Which is exactly the same as the
Yiddish name Suessel or Zisel, meaning "sweet little one." a name many
of us have been called by adoring aunts and grandmothers while having
our cheeks tweaked.

I wish I could tell you more about the Suessels. There's an awful lot
on our family tree (in Frensdorf, Bavaria, 17th-18th cent., and I can't
yet figure out what they were called in Hebrew. Dictionaries of Jewish
first and last names posit many different names, none of which applies
properly. The best bet is that your Cecil (or an ancestor of his) was
adoringly called by his relatives.

But remember this truth: there is no direct correspondence between
Hebrew names (even Bibkical ones) and civil names. Cecil could have
been called in Hebrew anything >from Abraham to Zefaniya.

Michael Bernet, New York

seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET, BERNERTH etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF: Frankfurt (Aron Wolf m. Babette Goldschmidt ca 1860) also in
Wurzburg, also Sali WOLF, Rotterdam


Yiddish Name #general

Patricia Adams
 

When I was born I was given an American name (that on my birth certificate)
and a Yiddish name, after a dead relative, as was my sister and other
members of my family.
I do not think this was an unusual practice, but my question is would this
Yiddish name ever have been written on a document, and if so where would
such a document be recorded, if it was?

Patricia Adams
Alstead
pla@sover.net
Researching:
SMITH, SCHMID, PSHUCHETZKE, ROSENTHAL, DUBIN, SCHNEIDER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yiddish Name #general

Patricia Adams
 

When I was born I was given an American name (that on my birth certificate)
and a Yiddish name, after a dead relative, as was my sister and other
members of my family.
I do not think this was an unusual practice, but my question is would this
Yiddish name ever have been written on a document, and if so where would
such a document be recorded, if it was?

Patricia Adams
Alstead
pla@sover.net
Researching:
SMITH, SCHMID, PSHUCHETZKE, ROSENTHAL, DUBIN, SCHNEIDER


Re: Mother and daughter with same name #general

A. E. Jordan
 

Roslyn Goldman writes :
"Also, Sephardic Jews name after the living."

No disrespect to Roslyn but what is the collective opinion of the group -- is
this correct? Is there anything in the religion that addresses this naming
pattern or is this open to the "local" customs?

If the moderators don't mind maybe this could be discussed because it would
solve a problem or two on my tree and I am sure on other people's too.
Opinions please.

Allan Jordan
aejordan@aol.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Although the thread : "Mother - Daughter,
same name" is closed, this message addresses a different
question on the subject and is, therefore being posted.
***Please limit your answers to this particular question and
not the original one.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Mother and daughter with same name #general

A. E. Jordan
 

Roslyn Goldman writes :
"Also, Sephardic Jews name after the living."

No disrespect to Roslyn but what is the collective opinion of the group -- is
this correct? Is there anything in the religion that addresses this naming
pattern or is this open to the "local" customs?

If the moderators don't mind maybe this could be discussed because it would
solve a problem or two on my tree and I am sure on other people's too.
Opinions please.

Allan Jordan
aejordan@aol.com

MODERATOR NOTE: Although the thread : "Mother - Daughter,
same name" is closed, this message addresses a different
question on the subject and is, therefore being posted.
***Please limit your answers to this particular question and
not the original one.


Re: The name "Adolph" and its origin is not the same as "Zvi" #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-12-25 00:13:10 EST, wsher@erols.com writes:

I am surprised that Adolph means wolf. My Yiddish name is Velvel,
but I was named after a great uncle "Wolf" >from Lemberg, Austria
(subsequently Lwow,Poland). My father's Hebrew name was Zvi, and it
was Hersch in Yiddish; therefore, I am reasonably certain that Zvi is
a stag, harte or deer, and not "wolf".
=You are absolutely right. I aplogize if I made a typo and led someone
astray. Velvel is a Yiddish endearment for Wolf, which is Ze'ev in
Hebrew. Ze'ev is associated with Benjamin.

==Heb. Tzi, which means deer etc, and which is associated with Naftali,
is Hirsch in German, Hart in English, Hershel in Yiddish.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The name "Adolph" and its origin is not the same as "Zvi" #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-12-25 00:13:10 EST, wsher@erols.com writes:

I am surprised that Adolph means wolf. My Yiddish name is Velvel,
but I was named after a great uncle "Wolf" >from Lemberg, Austria
(subsequently Lwow,Poland). My father's Hebrew name was Zvi, and it
was Hersch in Yiddish; therefore, I am reasonably certain that Zvi is
a stag, harte or deer, and not "wolf".
=You are absolutely right. I aplogize if I made a typo and led someone
astray. Velvel is a Yiddish endearment for Wolf, which is Ze'ev in
Hebrew. Ze'ev is associated with Benjamin.

==Heb. Tzi, which means deer etc, and which is associated with Naftali,
is Hirsch in German, Hart in English, Hershel in Yiddish.

Michael Bernet, New York


Kovno area and street #general

Jose Gutstein <jmg-miami@...>
 

Would someone with knowledge of the Kovno area please help?

I'm trying to figure out the exact name of the area and street
where my grandparents had a home in Kovno. It was on the side of
a mountain, or a hill.

A friend of the family who lived next door had described the area
(in Spanish) as "Monte Verde," which literally translates to
Green Mountain.

Yesterday I found a relative of this friend's family who had
visited the home many times. He called it (in Yiddish) something
like the "Green-e-berg" (this is my best phonetic
interpretation), or Green hill.

And he said the street name was something like "Zemaiciu."

Does anyone know any of the following?

1) What is the exact name of this area in Kovno? What geographic
part of the city is it in?

2) Does "berg" mean hill in Yiddish?

3) What is the exact spelling of the street name?

4) Does anyone have a detailed city map of Kovno that shows
either the area or the street?

Thanks,

Jose Gutstein
JMG-Miami@msn.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kovno area and street #general

Jose Gutstein <jmg-miami@...>
 

Would someone with knowledge of the Kovno area please help?

I'm trying to figure out the exact name of the area and street
where my grandparents had a home in Kovno. It was on the side of
a mountain, or a hill.

A friend of the family who lived next door had described the area
(in Spanish) as "Monte Verde," which literally translates to
Green Mountain.

Yesterday I found a relative of this friend's family who had
visited the home many times. He called it (in Yiddish) something
like the "Green-e-berg" (this is my best phonetic
interpretation), or Green hill.

And he said the street name was something like "Zemaiciu."

Does anyone know any of the following?

1) What is the exact name of this area in Kovno? What geographic
part of the city is it in?

2) Does "berg" mean hill in Yiddish?

3) What is the exact spelling of the street name?

4) Does anyone have a detailed city map of Kovno that shows
either the area or the street?

Thanks,

Jose Gutstein
JMG-Miami@msn.com


JGFF success on (re)uniting STEINER family after 89! years #general

Steinsteve@...
 

When I began my research more than 20 years ago, the last of my grandfather
Rudy/Rafael GROSS's six siblings was quite ill, so I got all my information,
which wasn't much, >from my grandmother. She told me of his siblings, nieces,
nephews, parents, and one cousin of unknown connection. I noted the cousin's
name, Rabbi Mendy SILVERSTEIN, in my log, as well as my GGM Rosa's maiden
name, STEINER. My mother added that they came >from a town "near Budapest." The
passenger list indicated instead they came >from Banffy-Hunyad, Hungary, now
Huedin, Romania, in 1909. Her death certificate gave me her parents' names,
Bertha and Rafael.

A few years later, while I was discussing genealogy with a co-worker, her
Jewish officemate noted that she knew nothing of her family beyond her living
relatives, other than her grandfather, Mendel SILBERSTEIN. Noting the
similarity in names, I said that I would check my notes, and joked that
perhaps we were cousins! Later that evening on the phone, I casually reviewed
all the facts with her, including my GGM's maiden name, STEINER. Guess what.
Her GGM Hannah's maiden name was STEINER as well.

Over the next few years, we were able to theorize that our GGMs were sisters
or cousins. We were able to confirm at least some connection by virtue of
Mendel's manifest - his relative in the US was one Carl Weissman, brother-in-
law of Grandpa Rudy and my Hebrew namesake. But we could make no definitive
connection. Also, Mendel came >from Nusfalau, Romania, nearby to Huedin. We
were also able to determine >from the SILBERSTEIN clan that Hannah had 3
brothers - Sholom, Benzion, and Meyer, but little else. I also met a
SILBERSTEIN cousin, also named Rafael, whose family remained in Romania and
later made Aliyah.

Which brings us to JGFF. I posted first STEINER/Huedin, and recently added
STEINER/Nusfalau, since I wasn't sure which was the STEINER town. In
September, shortly after the second posting, I was contacted by a man in
Melbourne, Australia, who is the GGS of Yakov Sholom STEINER, and the GGGS of
Beile and Rafael STEINER! (as am I.) We were quickly able to verify that we
were in fact related. Moreover, it solidified the connection between Rosa and
Hannah, based on the common parents of Yakov Sholom and Rosa.

Today, the circle was completed. The man's sister is visiting the US from
Australia, and we met for the first time. She brought me photos of the graves
on Rafael and Beile >from Romania that her brother took recently, as well as
several other pictures. We had a delightful time comparing and contrasting the
history of my family in the US and the family that was left behind, decimated
during the Holocaust. Baruch Hashem that a remnant survived,and we were able
to resume a family relationship that ceased almost 90 years past. How
marvelous that we both have named a child, directly and indirectly, for the
original Rafael.

Lessons: note everything; forget nothing; review constantly; take nothing
exactly literally until you are sure.

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGFF success on (re)uniting STEINER family after 89! years #general

Steinsteve@...
 

When I began my research more than 20 years ago, the last of my grandfather
Rudy/Rafael GROSS's six siblings was quite ill, so I got all my information,
which wasn't much, >from my grandmother. She told me of his siblings, nieces,
nephews, parents, and one cousin of unknown connection. I noted the cousin's
name, Rabbi Mendy SILVERSTEIN, in my log, as well as my GGM Rosa's maiden
name, STEINER. My mother added that they came >from a town "near Budapest." The
passenger list indicated instead they came >from Banffy-Hunyad, Hungary, now
Huedin, Romania, in 1909. Her death certificate gave me her parents' names,
Bertha and Rafael.

A few years later, while I was discussing genealogy with a co-worker, her
Jewish officemate noted that she knew nothing of her family beyond her living
relatives, other than her grandfather, Mendel SILBERSTEIN. Noting the
similarity in names, I said that I would check my notes, and joked that
perhaps we were cousins! Later that evening on the phone, I casually reviewed
all the facts with her, including my GGM's maiden name, STEINER. Guess what.
Her GGM Hannah's maiden name was STEINER as well.

Over the next few years, we were able to theorize that our GGMs were sisters
or cousins. We were able to confirm at least some connection by virtue of
Mendel's manifest - his relative in the US was one Carl Weissman, brother-in-
law of Grandpa Rudy and my Hebrew namesake. But we could make no definitive
connection. Also, Mendel came >from Nusfalau, Romania, nearby to Huedin. We
were also able to determine >from the SILBERSTEIN clan that Hannah had 3
brothers - Sholom, Benzion, and Meyer, but little else. I also met a
SILBERSTEIN cousin, also named Rafael, whose family remained in Romania and
later made Aliyah.

Which brings us to JGFF. I posted first STEINER/Huedin, and recently added
STEINER/Nusfalau, since I wasn't sure which was the STEINER town. In
September, shortly after the second posting, I was contacted by a man in
Melbourne, Australia, who is the GGS of Yakov Sholom STEINER, and the GGGS of
Beile and Rafael STEINER! (as am I.) We were quickly able to verify that we
were in fact related. Moreover, it solidified the connection between Rosa and
Hannah, based on the common parents of Yakov Sholom and Rosa.

Today, the circle was completed. The man's sister is visiting the US from
Australia, and we met for the first time. She brought me photos of the graves
on Rafael and Beile >from Romania that her brother took recently, as well as
several other pictures. We had a delightful time comparing and contrasting the
history of my family in the US and the family that was left behind, decimated
during the Holocaust. Baruch Hashem that a remnant survived,and we were able
to resume a family relationship that ceased almost 90 years past. How
marvelous that we both have named a child, directly and indirectly, for the
original Rafael.

Lessons: note everything; forget nothing; review constantly; take nothing
exactly literally until you are sure.

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ USA


Lida/Vilna #belarus

Phrases1@...
 

Sara Fraiman-Bavly wrote:
Does somebody knows what is the origin and the meaning of the last name
NOVOPRUTZKI? My late mother always used to say she was born in Lida and I
assumed the city. Now I know it's also a district. She also used to
mention living in Vilna so I always assumed she was born in Lida and later
moved to Vilna. Was Vilna in a certain point part of the Lida district?
Dear Sara,
Lida was both a city and uezd (district) in Vilna guberniya and part of
Lithuania. Later, it was part of Novogrudok and the Polish Republic during
WWII.

A group of about 100 people interested in research of towns in
Lida District share information and effort at no expense.
Feel free to contact me at <Phrases1@aol.com> for more information.

Ellen Sadove Renck - NY
Phrases1@aol.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Lida/Vilna #belarus

Phrases1@...
 

Sara Fraiman-Bavly wrote:
Does somebody knows what is the origin and the meaning of the last name
NOVOPRUTZKI? My late mother always used to say she was born in Lida and I
assumed the city. Now I know it's also a district. She also used to
mention living in Vilna so I always assumed she was born in Lida and later
moved to Vilna. Was Vilna in a certain point part of the Lida district?
Dear Sara,
Lida was both a city and uezd (district) in Vilna guberniya and part of
Lithuania. Later, it was part of Novogrudok and the Polish Republic during
WWII.

A group of about 100 people interested in research of towns in
Lida District share information and effort at no expense.
Feel free to contact me at <Phrases1@aol.com> for more information.

Ellen Sadove Renck - NY
Phrases1@aol.com