Hi,
I know nothing about the family Hollander, but go to this site:
http://www.psk.co.at/report/index.html

It is the list of names for dormant accounts in Vienna. Go to "List of dormant
accounts,click it, go to alphabet "H", click it and scroll until you see
Hollander. There are two accounts with the Hungarian name "DEZSO" bet this was
a Hungarian Hollander living in Vienna or Hungary and depositing to this
account.
Eleanor Bien

Hi,
I know nothing about the family Hollander, but go to this site:
http://www.psk.co.at/report/index.html

It is the list of names for dormant accounts in Vienna. Go to "List of dormant
accounts,click it, go to alphabet "H", click it and scroll until you see
Hollander. There are two accounts with the Hungarian name "DEZSO" bet this was
a Hungarian Hollander living in Vienna or Hungary and depositing to this
account.
Eleanor Bien

Hello H-SIG

All messages posted to this list since July 1998 are now being
archived and are searchable online. >from JewishGen's homepage
http://www.jewishgen.org, click on Databases and then select
The JewishGen SIG Lists message Archive - 1998

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations

Hello H-SIG

All messages posted to this list since July 1998 are now being
archived and are searchable online. >from JewishGen's homepage
http://www.jewishgen.org, click on Databases and then select
The JewishGen SIG Lists message Archive - 1998

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations

I think I would object too if someone broadcast my address, telephone
number, and (in Britain) my National Insurance number, which is also used
by the Inland Revenue. I would not object if the person sending it out had
got my prior permission, preferably in writing. I certainly do not send out
to strangers any information about living people without the latter's
permission.

This is not only because of politeness and etiquette; nor is it a
reflection of the British obsesion with secrecy and privacy ('An
Englishman's home is his castle'); it is also to avoid attracting the
attention of conversionists and Holocaust-revisionists who send you their
material if they get hold of your address.

Harold Pollins

Oxford England

pollins@globalnet.co.uk

Further to Harold's note, in the UK tabloid Press phone numbers have been
printed of individuals with the implication that readers should phone the
individuals who have possibly done something to displease the newspaper.
There are always loonies or sad people who want to phone famous people for
innocent or malign reasons, so that it is fairly reasonable that the famous
person might wish to protect their privacy in this way. For that reason we
have postings in this group asking if we know how to contact this or that
famous actor. Whereas most of the postings are at the other end of the
scale most of the other postings are trying to locate a relative, ancestor
etc. Clearly actor X or actor Y is protecting their privacy. Now if you
were related to a famous actor, would you object if they requested that
their telephone number be withheld.

As to someone's date of birth I doubt that someone could prevent you
publishing this as the writer says this is a matter of public record. No
doubt you only have to give the source which is another publication or
public register and that would end the matter. Clearly the relative might
never speak to you again and might leave you out of their will. Presumably
you don't mind offending people when you decided to produce a family tree!

Clearly someone who makes such a big deal about "sensitive" information is
very sensitive about the information being published. I would have thought
that going over the top in this way would very much draw attention to their
sensitivity. It is clear that rich and powerful men often have more money
than sense. Most of us are not terribly keen on certain things affecting us
but we just have to grin and bear it.

I think that there is another point that the detailed genealogical info
that we are talking about is often used by banks and the such like to check
the bona fides of a customer eg maiden name of mother and other such
information. It is not beyond the realms of imagination that this
information could be used to perpetrate a fraud.

I am glad to say that in my large family that there have been no problems
about the information contained in the family tree.

We produce in the printed document which is circulated within the family:

Full name
Name of spouse
Date of birth
Date of marriage
If appropriate, date of death
Different towns of residence
Names of children

There is little on here that someone could object. I believe that the tree
has been used by children in the family for school projects.

Clearly when more personal information such as address, telephone number is
contained on the tree there is much less that you can do with the tree.
Quite rightly I don't want everyone knowing my address and phone number
even though it is in the phonebook.

Nick

I think I would object too if someone broadcast my address, telephone
number, and (in Britain) my National Insurance number, which is also used
by the Inland Revenue. I would not object if the person sending it out had
got my prior permission, preferably in writing. I certainly do not send out
to strangers any information about living people without the latter's
permission.

This is not only because of politeness and etiquette; nor is it a
reflection of the British obsesion with secrecy and privacy ('An
Englishman's home is his castle'); it is also to avoid attracting the
attention of conversionists and Holocaust-revisionists who send you their
material if they get hold of your address.

Harold Pollins

Oxford England

pollins@globalnet.co.uk

Further to Harold's note, in the UK tabloid Press phone numbers have been
printed of individuals with the implication that readers should phone the
individuals who have possibly done something to displease the newspaper.
There are always loonies or sad people who want to phone famous people for
innocent or malign reasons, so that it is fairly reasonable that the famous
person might wish to protect their privacy in this way. For that reason we
have postings in this group asking if we know how to contact this or that
famous actor. Whereas most of the postings are at the other end of the
scale most of the other postings are trying to locate a relative, ancestor
etc. Clearly actor X or actor Y is protecting their privacy. Now if you
were related to a famous actor, would you object if they requested that
their telephone number be withheld.

As to someone's date of birth I doubt that someone could prevent you
publishing this as the writer says this is a matter of public record. No
doubt you only have to give the source which is another publication or
public register and that would end the matter. Clearly the relative might
never speak to you again and might leave you out of their will. Presumably
you don't mind offending people when you decided to produce a family tree!

Clearly someone who makes such a big deal about "sensitive" information is
very sensitive about the information being published. I would have thought
that going over the top in this way would very much draw attention to their
sensitivity. It is clear that rich and powerful men often have more money
than sense. Most of us are not terribly keen on certain things affecting us
but we just have to grin and bear it.

I think that there is another point that the detailed genealogical info
that we are talking about is often used by banks and the such like to check
the bona fides of a customer eg maiden name of mother and other such
information. It is not beyond the realms of imagination that this
information could be used to perpetrate a fraud.

I am glad to say that in my large family that there have been no problems
about the information contained in the family tree.

We produce in the printed document which is circulated within the family:

Full name
Name of spouse
Date of birth
Date of marriage
If appropriate, date of death
Different towns of residence
Names of children

There is little on here that someone could object. I believe that the tree
has been used by children in the family for school projects.

Clearly when more personal information such as address, telephone number is
contained on the tree there is much less that you can do with the tree.
Quite rightly I don't want everyone knowing my address and phone number
even though it is in the phonebook.

Nick

Citizens of the European Community should note the Data Protection Act
1998, effective on the mainland October 1998 and in the UK in 2Q99. It
deals with distribution of information outside the UK as well. The main
changes >from previous Acts is to expand data protection to pieces of paper
as well as computer storage. As a general rule, only distribute a limited
amount of data about a living person such as their place in a family tree.
Even this might need to be registered with the DP registrar. I will keep
you posted.

Citizens of the European Community should note the Data Protection Act
1998, effective on the mainland October 1998 and in the UK in 2Q99. It
deals with distribution of information outside the UK as well. The main
changes >from previous Acts is to expand data protection to pieces of paper
as well as computer storage. As a general rule, only distribute a limited
amount of data about a living person such as their place in a family tree.
Even this might need to be registered with the DP registrar. I will keep
you posted.

Perhaps other genealogists have faced this problem.
I type up family chronologies and relay them to the
family members and to others related to them. This
material includes birth dates, addresses, and tele-
phone numbers of living persons, as well as the so-
cial security numbers of the deceased. My material
in this case was all based on public sources, but a
recipient hit the roof anyway.

<snip>
David,

This has come up in my family as well, but not due to mental illness or
senility or any amount of money. Everyone has their own ideas about what
constitutes privacy, and even when something is a matter of public
record, they may not appreciate seeing it directly in their face or
anyone else's. They are entitled to their opinions, and their feelings
are absolutely valid and worthy of consideration.

I do think you need to find a way to be sensitive to other people's
concerns. Perhaps you can remove the information requested >from your
distribution list -- why not? It won't hurt anyone to remove it, but
apparently it does hurt someone in some way by not removing it. OK, so
it won't be *complete*, but you'll still have the information available
if you need it, and if someone else requests it, then you can send it
privately.

Here's one example >from my family: One of my grandmothers has been
married many times, including twice to the same man and two other times
to men who abusive. She has done a number of things that I know she
regrets or prefers not to discuss. What I have done is included only two
of her marriages -- my grandfather (the only one she had children with)
and her last husband (who was a wonderful man) -- and the rest are noted
elsewhere. I can include them when she passes away if I think it's
necessary, or just keep them in writing for future generations who are
interested. I think that most people have had times in their lives that
they would rather forget, and we can do them the kindness of respecting
that.

As for identifying information such as Social Security numbers and
telephone numbers of living people, I think it makes perfect sense to
request that they not be included if someone finds them upsetting. You
can at least make the effort to forge a compromise. Perhaps, as I said,
if someone wants a phone number, they can contact you directly. In this
age of electronic information and stolen identities, I think people
should have a right to request some level of privacy. This person has
asked you twice to stop doing something that they find upsetting and
intrusive; perhaps you can accommodate them rather than standing on
principle. Isn't one goal of genealogy to bring families together?

//Corin Barsily Goodwin
Cupertino, CA USA

BARSILA/BARZILY/BARZILOV -- Russia; Scotland; NYC
BASOK/BARSACH -- Orsha (Mogilev), Belarus; Scotland; NYC; Rhode Island
BRAUN -- Hungary; NYC ...WEISS -- Hungary; NYC; Middlesex, NJ
DU BOFF/MISTROFF -- Gorodische (Baronovich), Belarus; NYC & Long Island
KANEFSKY and RIVKIN -- Elizabetgrod, Ukraine; NYC
SIGAAR -- Amsterdam ...VAN SANTEN -- Amsterdam; NYC

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.

Perhaps other genealogists have faced this problem.
I type up family chronologies and relay them to the
family members and to others related to them. This
material includes birth dates, addresses, and tele-
phone numbers of living persons, as well as the so-
cial security numbers of the deceased. My material
in this case was all based on public sources, but a
recipient hit the roof anyway.

<snip>
David,

This has come up in my family as well, but not due to mental illness or
senility or any amount of money. Everyone has their own ideas about what
constitutes privacy, and even when something is a matter of public
record, they may not appreciate seeing it directly in their face or
anyone else's. They are entitled to their opinions, and their feelings
are absolutely valid and worthy of consideration.

I do think you need to find a way to be sensitive to other people's
concerns. Perhaps you can remove the information requested >from your
distribution list -- why not? It won't hurt anyone to remove it, but
apparently it does hurt someone in some way by not removing it. OK, so
it won't be *complete*, but you'll still have the information available
if you need it, and if someone else requests it, then you can send it
privately.

Here's one example >from my family: One of my grandmothers has been
married many times, including twice to the same man and two other times
to men who abusive. She has done a number of things that I know she
regrets or prefers not to discuss. What I have done is included only two
of her marriages -- my grandfather (the only one she had children with)
and her last husband (who was a wonderful man) -- and the rest are noted
elsewhere. I can include them when she passes away if I think it's
necessary, or just keep them in writing for future generations who are
interested. I think that most people have had times in their lives that
they would rather forget, and we can do them the kindness of respecting
that.

As for identifying information such as Social Security numbers and
telephone numbers of living people, I think it makes perfect sense to
request that they not be included if someone finds them upsetting. You
can at least make the effort to forge a compromise. Perhaps, as I said,
if someone wants a phone number, they can contact you directly. In this
age of electronic information and stolen identities, I think people
should have a right to request some level of privacy. This person has
asked you twice to stop doing something that they find upsetting and
intrusive; perhaps you can accommodate them rather than standing on
principle. Isn't one goal of genealogy to bring families together?

//Corin Barsily Goodwin
Cupertino, CA USA

BARSILA/BARZILY/BARZILOV -- Russia; Scotland; NYC
BASOK/BARSACH -- Orsha (Mogilev), Belarus; Scotland; NYC; Rhode Island
BRAUN -- Hungary; NYC ...WEISS -- Hungary; NYC; Middlesex, NJ
DU BOFF/MISTROFF -- Gorodische (Baronovich), Belarus; NYC & Long Island
KANEFSKY and RIVKIN -- Elizabetgrod, Ukraine; NYC
SIGAAR -- Amsterdam ...VAN SANTEN -- Amsterdam; NYC

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.

Re the recipient of your family chronology who demands that you remove
everyone's birth date, phone number, and social security number: Why
not write him a polite two-sentence letter pointing out (1) that he's
the only one objecting to the inclusion of this information and (2)
that you will be glad to remove the apparently objectionable
information about him or, alternatively, remove his name and data
entirely?

Marjorie Stamm Rosenfeld
marjorie.rosenfeld@cwix.com
Carlsbad, CA

Re the recipient of your family chronology who demands that you remove
everyone's birth date, phone number, and social security number: Why
not write him a polite two-sentence letter pointing out (1) that he's
the only one objecting to the inclusion of this information and (2)
that you will be glad to remove the apparently objectionable
information about him or, alternatively, remove his name and data
entirely?

Marjorie Stamm Rosenfeld
marjorie.rosenfeld@cwix.com
Carlsbad, CA

We don't have USA census lists in Sydney Australia. Could someone please
help with a look up of the 1900 census for (I think) Bronx area of NY.

The surname is KREIELSHEIMER, first name Simon, and any others of the same
surname. By 1900 he had married Sarah WEIL and had three or four children,
Monroe, Celia, Caroline, and Lester. Monroe was supposed to have been born
in the Bronx in 1894.

Thanks for any help.

Gary Luke

MODERATOR NOTE: We mistakenly rejected this post yesterday because of its
similarity to another post >from Mr Luke, to whom we apologize. The two
posts refer to different types of source material, and both properly appear
here.

We don't have USA census lists in Sydney Australia. Could someone please
help with a look up of the 1900 census for (I think) Bronx area of NY.

The surname is KREIELSHEIMER, first name Simon, and any others of the same
surname. By 1900 he had married Sarah WEIL and had three or four children,
Monroe, Celia, Caroline, and Lester. Monroe was supposed to have been born
in the Bronx in 1894.

Thanks for any help.

Gary Luke

MODERATOR NOTE: We mistakenly rejected this post yesterday because of its
similarity to another post >from Mr Luke, to whom we apologize. The two
posts refer to different types of source material, and both properly appear
here.

What exactly was the CANDLE TAX?

I have been told that it was a tax collected by the Rabbi's wife to be used
for communal purposes, and that the tax was applied in Poland and Eastern
Europe. The list of contributors was recorded, and some of these lists are
still extant.

Is this information correct? Surely, if it was a +ACI-tax+ACI-, then it was
imposed by the government, and the money collected would have to pass
through a government-appointed body. To me, this seems more like a form of
tzadaka.

Is anyone aware of these +ACI-candle tax+ACI- contributor lists?

J SCHAMROTH

What exactly was the CANDLE TAX?

I have been told that it was a tax collected by the Rabbi's wife to be used
for communal purposes, and that the tax was applied in Poland and Eastern
Europe. The list of contributors was recorded, and some of these lists are
still extant.

Is this information correct? Surely, if it was a +ACI-tax+ACI-, then it was
imposed by the government, and the money collected would have to pass
through a government-appointed body. To me, this seems more like a form of
tzadaka.

Is anyone aware of these +ACI-candle tax+ACI- contributor lists?

J SCHAMROTH

I have a 1910 census for Maryland in front of me. The headings for columns
30, 31 and 32 are:

(30) Whether survivor Union, Confederate Army or Navy

(31)Whether blind(both eyes)

(32) Whether deaf and dumb

Some of the people in this census have the columns filled in with numerals
or with an x. The responses in the columns are 1-0-0 or 3-x-0. What do
these responses mean?

Dianne Feldman
Davidsonville, MD
searching VAINIK >from Vaskai, Lith.

Carl R. Migden
crmigden@AOL.COM Nov. 8th, 1998

I too have written ti L'VIV and I also got the same response as you..."
They they send the bill with the information, and dont ask you in advance
whether or not you want to pay for it, they use Bankers Trust Co in
NY...acct 04 094 040 and they write in Russian, though they dont mind if
YOU write in English...their copies are a bit hard to read..I got a birth
record of my uncle, 1900 + stating that they have +/- 30 other records.
I've sent a U.S. dollar check to Bankers Trust in New Jersey and >from the
translated Ukrainian I got I do hope I receive information on the other 30
document. They invoiced me $70.00 U.S. dollars.
Question: Did you make payment of the invoice and get info on the 22 people
mentioned?
I just mailed it about 2 weeks ago and I'm waiting for a response. I must
say that the info on my ggm side was accurate as to a maiden name that I
did not mention in my original request. So, maybe I'll get lucky. On the
documents it mentioned the number of a building where my uncle was born,
but NO address of Street. Was the same true on your info/document??? .Other
relatives listed on other documents (birth, marriage, & death cert.) I
received >from L'VOV Ukraine only indicate a building number (again no
address).

Looking forward to any kind of response,
Very truly yours,
Carl R. Migden
crmigden@AOL.COM

I have a 1910 census for Maryland in front of me. The headings for columns
30, 31 and 32 are:

(30) Whether survivor Union, Confederate Army or Navy

(31)Whether blind(both eyes)

(32) Whether deaf and dumb

Some of the people in this census have the columns filled in with numerals
or with an x. The responses in the columns are 1-0-0 or 3-x-0. What do
these responses mean?

Dianne Feldman
Davidsonville, MD
searching VAINIK >from Vaskai, Lith.

Carl R. Migden
crmigden@AOL.COM Nov. 8th, 1998

I too have written ti L'VIV and I also got the same response as you..."
They they send the bill with the information, and dont ask you in advance
whether or not you want to pay for it, they use Bankers Trust Co in
NY...acct 04 094 040 and they write in Russian, though they dont mind if
YOU write in English...their copies are a bit hard to read..I got a birth
record of my uncle, 1900 + stating that they have +/- 30 other records.
I've sent a U.S. dollar check to Bankers Trust in New Jersey and >from the
translated Ukrainian I got I do hope I receive information on the other 30
document. They invoiced me $70.00 U.S. dollars.
Question: Did you make payment of the invoice and get info on the 22 people
mentioned?
I just mailed it about 2 weeks ago and I'm waiting for a response. I must
say that the info on my ggm side was accurate as to a maiden name that I
did not mention in my original request. So, maybe I'll get lucky. On the
documents it mentioned the number of a building where my uncle was born,
but NO address of Street. Was the same true on your info/document??? .Other
relatives listed on other documents (birth, marriage, & death cert.) I
received >from L'VOV Ukraine only indicate a building number (again no
address).

Looking forward to any kind of response,
Very truly yours,
Carl R. Migden
crmigden@AOL.COM