Date   

Re: Civil marriages #general

michael slifkin <slifkin@...>
 

Most synagogues came under the authority of the Chief rabbi who insisted
that all synagogue wedding were also registered with the civil authorities.
The UK synagogues were allowed to register their own marriages via means of
a Marriage Secretary, only the Church of England and Quakers had this
privilege I was a marriage secretary for many years of a synagogue whose
records went back to 1905. This incidentally was a right wing Orthodox
synagogue and there was no evidence in the archives of the synagogue
performing weddings without civil registration.

David Kravitz wrote:

In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.

mailto:dkravitz@bournemouth.ac.uk
---
Visit the JewishGen website: http://www.jewishgen.org
--
***********************
Professor M A Slifkin
Jerusalem, Israel
***********************


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Civil marriages #general

michael slifkin <slifkin@...>
 

Most synagogues came under the authority of the Chief rabbi who insisted
that all synagogue wedding were also registered with the civil authorities.
The UK synagogues were allowed to register their own marriages via means of
a Marriage Secretary, only the Church of England and Quakers had this
privilege I was a marriage secretary for many years of a synagogue whose
records went back to 1905. This incidentally was a right wing Orthodox
synagogue and there was no evidence in the archives of the synagogue
performing weddings without civil registration.

David Kravitz wrote:

In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.

mailto:dkravitz@bournemouth.ac.uk
---
Visit the JewishGen website: http://www.jewishgen.org
--
***********************
Professor M A Slifkin
Jerusalem, Israel
***********************


Re: synagogue marriages in England #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

In article <v03010d09b26b2d8ecae6@[128.148.19.87]>,
jrw@Brown.edu (Judith Romney Wegner) wrote:

Subject: Civil marriages
From: David Kravitz <>
In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.
This strikes me as a very strange assertion and I am wondering on what it
is based! It may have been true in countries like Poland, but certainly
not in England, where people were and are very concerned about matters of
civil law. But Jews didn't marry in registry offices because this was not
necessary for the marriage to be valid in English law! A synagogue marriage
sufficed for this purpose.
I have experienced the reverse case where a couple were married in a
registry office and then subsequently they were given a quiet religious
service. They might not have been at all religious at the time or one
partner might have been converted.

On both occasions, as a teenager, I was asked to come quietly to the
rabbi's house to form a minyan for the ceremony. It was made clear that we
should keep quiet about this.

In a United Synagogue and other synagogues the ketubah is witnessed at the
end of the ceremony and the the civil register is signed and witnessed
immediately after the ceremony.

As Dr Wegner implies, everything about the practice of the United Synagogue
would be constructed to ape the practices of the Christian world. Far from
evading the law of the land the story of the emancipation of the Jew in
England has been one of a wish to assume the rights and responsibilities of
their countryman.

Nick Landau

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: synagogue marriages in England #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

In article <v03010d09b26b2d8ecae6@[128.148.19.87]>,
jrw@Brown.edu (Judith Romney Wegner) wrote:

Subject: Civil marriages
From: David Kravitz <>
In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.
This strikes me as a very strange assertion and I am wondering on what it
is based! It may have been true in countries like Poland, but certainly
not in England, where people were and are very concerned about matters of
civil law. But Jews didn't marry in registry offices because this was not
necessary for the marriage to be valid in English law! A synagogue marriage
sufficed for this purpose.
I have experienced the reverse case where a couple were married in a
registry office and then subsequently they were given a quiet religious
service. They might not have been at all religious at the time or one
partner might have been converted.

On both occasions, as a teenager, I was asked to come quietly to the
rabbi's house to form a minyan for the ceremony. It was made clear that we
should keep quiet about this.

In a United Synagogue and other synagogues the ketubah is witnessed at the
end of the ceremony and the the civil register is signed and witnessed
immediately after the ceremony.

As Dr Wegner implies, everything about the practice of the United Synagogue
would be constructed to ape the practices of the Christian world. Far from
evading the law of the land the story of the emancipation of the Jew in
England has been one of a wish to assume the rights and responsibilities of
their countryman.

Nick Landau

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.


Rabbi M and the city of "Shaag" #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Dear Rabbi Marmorstein,

I imagine you have been very busy the past several months. Your abscence
here has been noticed and, therefore, I wanted to take this opportunity to
tell you how much I and h-sig have missed your erudite and informative
contributions.

When I read your request for suggestions regarding a more specific
identification of the city "Sha'ag", the first location that came to mind
was the town of Ipolyshag (pronounced Ee-pole-shaag), and known today as
Sahy. This town is currently found in the Slovak Republic, and according to
WWWW it is 139km E. of Bratislava. I also refer you to the Yizkor book: Ner
Tamid L'Zeicher Yehadut Iposhag V'Hasviva/ Orokmecses - Sahy-Ipolysag es
kornyeke, Martirjainak emlekere, edited by A. Ascher and J.
Gidron/Gartebzaum, published by Ronil Press located in Nahariya (Israel) in
1994. If you have difficulty securing the book please let me know, and I can
assist you further.

I am also in the process of compiling a list for our sig and Jewishgen of
Hungarian Jewish family trees and histories, published or in manuscript
form. If you or anyone reading this knows of such printed materials please
let me know; especially, if these documents or books might be located in
Israel, since I will be travelling there shortly. Any leads along this line
would be appreciated.

Louis Schonfeld
Lmagyar@en.com


P.S. During my short stay in Israel, I will also try to visit Gondos es
Sossana in Haifa, the only legitimate Hungarian bookstore in the country. If
you absolutely must have a Yizkor book I will try to obtain one for you
there. If you know of other sources to purchase Hungarian Yizkor books in
Israel please advise me of this as well. Please respond privately.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Rabbi M and the city of "Shaag" #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Dear Rabbi Marmorstein,

I imagine you have been very busy the past several months. Your abscence
here has been noticed and, therefore, I wanted to take this opportunity to
tell you how much I and h-sig have missed your erudite and informative
contributions.

When I read your request for suggestions regarding a more specific
identification of the city "Sha'ag", the first location that came to mind
was the town of Ipolyshag (pronounced Ee-pole-shaag), and known today as
Sahy. This town is currently found in the Slovak Republic, and according to
WWWW it is 139km E. of Bratislava. I also refer you to the Yizkor book: Ner
Tamid L'Zeicher Yehadut Iposhag V'Hasviva/ Orokmecses - Sahy-Ipolysag es
kornyeke, Martirjainak emlekere, edited by A. Ascher and J.
Gidron/Gartebzaum, published by Ronil Press located in Nahariya (Israel) in
1994. If you have difficulty securing the book please let me know, and I can
assist you further.

I am also in the process of compiling a list for our sig and Jewishgen of
Hungarian Jewish family trees and histories, published or in manuscript
form. If you or anyone reading this knows of such printed materials please
let me know; especially, if these documents or books might be located in
Israel, since I will be travelling there shortly. Any leads along this line
would be appreciated.

Louis Schonfeld
Lmagyar@en.com


P.S. During my short stay in Israel, I will also try to visit Gondos es
Sossana in Haifa, the only legitimate Hungarian bookstore in the country. If
you absolutely must have a Yizkor book I will try to obtain one for you
there. If you know of other sources to purchase Hungarian Yizkor books in
Israel please advise me of this as well. Please respond privately.


What does given name "Lerle" translate to? #general

Ronald D. Doctor <rondoctor@...>
 

I have run across an entry in one of Glazier's books for a man named Lerle
DUBINSKI. Almost all the details in the entry for Lerle and his family
match those of my great-grandfather and his family. However, my ggf was
known as Louis. Does "Lerle" translate to "Louis"? If not, what would it
translate to?

Ron Doctor
rondoctor@cis.com


Re: Sean FERGUSON story #general

Beth Wellington <wellingtonbj@...>
 

Another family story of an odd name: WELLINGTON

Three brothers, Sephardic on their father's side, at least, one my
paternal grandfather, left Belarus, not because of the authorities,
but because of discord with their adoptive father, an Ashkenazi whose
name may have started with something like a "W".

They came to the U.S. via Holland and thus arrived in Boston, not
Ellis Island. All spoke many languages, including English. "Name,"
asked the immigration clerk. With this question, they started a
discussion of whether they had to give the last name of their adoptive
father, which was on their papers, or whether they could give their
father's name, which sounded something like DiAveros.

This was not a discussion to be held in English, of course. But the
immigration clerk, hearing them "babble" in Russian assumed they
hadn't understood his question. Now, in those days, my grandfather
had red hair and this appealed to the clerk, who was Irish. And so,
in order to expedite things, the clerk said, "You're a fine looking
lad and I'll help you go far: Wellington" and stamped the papers for
not only Grandfather but his two brothers.

Beth

---skolto@my-dejanews.com wrote:

Here's the story I heard about my family name:

Back in Baranovich, in Belorus, my grandfather was the youngest of
several brothers and sisters....


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen What does given name "Lerle" translate to? #general

Ronald D. Doctor <rondoctor@...>
 

I have run across an entry in one of Glazier's books for a man named Lerle
DUBINSKI. Almost all the details in the entry for Lerle and his family
match those of my great-grandfather and his family. However, my ggf was
known as Louis. Does "Lerle" translate to "Louis"? If not, what would it
translate to?

Ron Doctor
rondoctor@cis.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Sean FERGUSON story #general

Beth Wellington <wellingtonbj@...>
 

Another family story of an odd name: WELLINGTON

Three brothers, Sephardic on their father's side, at least, one my
paternal grandfather, left Belarus, not because of the authorities,
but because of discord with their adoptive father, an Ashkenazi whose
name may have started with something like a "W".

They came to the U.S. via Holland and thus arrived in Boston, not
Ellis Island. All spoke many languages, including English. "Name,"
asked the immigration clerk. With this question, they started a
discussion of whether they had to give the last name of their adoptive
father, which was on their papers, or whether they could give their
father's name, which sounded something like DiAveros.

This was not a discussion to be held in English, of course. But the
immigration clerk, hearing them "babble" in Russian assumed they
hadn't understood his question. Now, in those days, my grandfather
had red hair and this appealed to the clerk, who was Irish. And so,
in order to expedite things, the clerk said, "You're a fine looking
lad and I'll help you go far: Wellington" and stamped the papers for
not only Grandfather but his two brothers.

Beth

---skolto@my-dejanews.com wrote:

Here's the story I heard about my family name:

Back in Baranovich, in Belorus, my grandfather was the youngest of
several brothers and sisters....


Re: Commonwealth War Graves Commission #general

Stephen Mednick <smednick@...>
 

Given that today is the 80th anniversary of the end of WWI, that might
explain why there might be more traffic than normal.

Stephen Mednick
Sydney, Australia
smednick@css.au.com

Researching:
MEDNICK (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)
SACHS/SACKS (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)


The URL for the list of men and women of Britain and the Commonwealth
buried or commemorated by the Commission since 1914 is

http://www.cwgc.org/

It is very busy.
MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Commonwealth War Graves Commission #general

Stephen Mednick <smednick@...>
 

Given that today is the 80th anniversary of the end of WWI, that might
explain why there might be more traffic than normal.

Stephen Mednick
Sydney, Australia
smednick@css.au.com

Researching:
MEDNICK (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)
SACHS/SACKS (Kalius,UKR & London,ENG)


The URL for the list of men and women of Britain and the Commonwealth
buried or commemorated by the Commission since 1914 is

http://www.cwgc.org/

It is very busy.
MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.


Re: What does given name "Lerle" translate to? #general

Mason Lilly <mlilly@...>
 

We need to be careful about how we use the word "translate." Most Yiddish
and Hebrew names were not translated to "American" names by our ancestors.
They were simply Anglicized -- or better, Americanized. The popular
"Moishe" or "Maishe" rarely get truely translated into Moses, but more
frequently ended up as Morris or Maurice or any of a number of names,
usually beginning with the letter "M." I'm not familiar with the name
Lerle, but I suspect it was an "old world" given name, and there's a good
chance that it ended up as Louis, especially if the rest of the family
seems to match up in the immigration records.

On 11 Nov 1998 04:01:40 -0800, rondoctor@csi.com (Ronald D. Doctor) wrote:

|I have run across an entry in one of Glazier's books for a man named Lerle
|DUBINSKI. Almost all the details in the entry for Lerle and his family
|match those of my great-grandfather and his family. However, my ggf was
|known as Louis. Does "Lerle" translate to "Louis"? If not, what would it
|translate to?


From Bialystok to Philadelphia #general

L.M. Berkowitz <lmb@...>
 

How would an immigrant travel >from Bialystok to Philadelphia in 1869? Take
ship at Danzig, go around Denmark and stop off at Newcastle before
proceeding to the U.S.

Did all immigrant ships at that time stop at the port of New York (Castle
Garden) or did many proceed directly to Philadelphia?

How long would a voyage by steamer take?


Leah Berkowitz lmb "at" adni.net lberkow1 "at" ford.com
http://www.jewish-history.com/ Jewish-American History


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: What does given name "Lerle" translate to? #general

Mason Lilly <mlilly@...>
 

We need to be careful about how we use the word "translate." Most Yiddish
and Hebrew names were not translated to "American" names by our ancestors.
They were simply Anglicized -- or better, Americanized. The popular
"Moishe" or "Maishe" rarely get truely translated into Moses, but more
frequently ended up as Morris or Maurice or any of a number of names,
usually beginning with the letter "M." I'm not familiar with the name
Lerle, but I suspect it was an "old world" given name, and there's a good
chance that it ended up as Louis, especially if the rest of the family
seems to match up in the immigration records.

On 11 Nov 1998 04:01:40 -0800, rondoctor@csi.com (Ronald D. Doctor) wrote:

|I have run across an entry in one of Glazier's books for a man named Lerle
|DUBINSKI. Almost all the details in the entry for Lerle and his family
|match those of my great-grandfather and his family. However, my ggf was
|known as Louis. Does "Lerle" translate to "Louis"? If not, what would it
|translate to?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen From Bialystok to Philadelphia #general

L.M. Berkowitz <lmb@...>
 

How would an immigrant travel >from Bialystok to Philadelphia in 1869? Take
ship at Danzig, go around Denmark and stop off at Newcastle before
proceeding to the U.S.

Did all immigrant ships at that time stop at the port of New York (Castle
Garden) or did many proceed directly to Philadelphia?

How long would a voyage by steamer take?


Leah Berkowitz lmb "at" adni.net lberkow1 "at" ford.com
http://www.jewish-history.com/ Jewish-American History


Strzemieszyce #general

David Gordon <dgordon@...>
 

Fay Starr wrote: "I am...having difficulty locating town of Stremieszyce
on map of Poland."

The reason is likely because a letter was dropped at some point. There
should be a "z" after the "r". When you add it, you end up with the
presumably correct name. There are two towns of that name in Katowickie
Wojewodztwo (or Katowice province) in south-central Poland: S. Male and
S. Wielkie (which would roughly translate to S. the smaller or lesser
and S. the larger or greater). As might be expected, they are near but
not next to, each other. Both are located east-northeast of Katowice.
(Other nearby cities would be Sosnowiec and Dabrowa Gornicza) S. Male
is about 8 km east (and slightly north) of S. Wielkie (which is a couple
km due east of Dabrowa Gornicza). Hope this helps.
David Gordon
dgordon@interaccess.com
Chicago, Illinois
Searching:
HORWITZ: Smolevichi, Lapichi, Bobruisk?, GORDON: Kaunas (or Vilnius?)
GEBALOVITCH: Borisov, LEVIN: Kaunas, DRAZIN: Bobruisk
BENENSON: Borisov, HURWITZ: Gomel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Strzemieszyce #general

David Gordon <dgordon@...>
 

Fay Starr wrote: "I am...having difficulty locating town of Stremieszyce
on map of Poland."

The reason is likely because a letter was dropped at some point. There
should be a "z" after the "r". When you add it, you end up with the
presumably correct name. There are two towns of that name in Katowickie
Wojewodztwo (or Katowice province) in south-central Poland: S. Male and
S. Wielkie (which would roughly translate to S. the smaller or lesser
and S. the larger or greater). As might be expected, they are near but
not next to, each other. Both are located east-northeast of Katowice.
(Other nearby cities would be Sosnowiec and Dabrowa Gornicza) S. Male
is about 8 km east (and slightly north) of S. Wielkie (which is a couple
km due east of Dabrowa Gornicza). Hope this helps.
David Gordon
dgordon@interaccess.com
Chicago, Illinois
Searching:
HORWITZ: Smolevichi, Lapichi, Bobruisk?, GORDON: Kaunas (or Vilnius?)
GEBALOVITCH: Borisov, LEVIN: Kaunas, DRAZIN: Bobruisk
BENENSON: Borisov, HURWITZ: Gomel


Louis is not Levy ? #general

Ury Link <uryl@...>
 

You wrot:
Not so fast, Ury. Some Levis took the name Loew and >from there some took
the name Loeb. Judah is referred to as a lion cup, so the name Yehuda-
Aryeh became common. Aryeh translates as Lion, Loel in German. My guess
is that for every Loeb who is a Levite, there are ten who got their name
because of Judah.
Louis is NOT Levy. Here and there you might see a link such as Levi,
Levenberg, Louis.
The civil name Louis may be given to Lemel, Lemech, Lazarus (Elazar),
Lurie . . . . or just about anyone
And on my family tree stretching back to 1625 approx, all Leviim, I see
not one Lieber nor any Louis (but plenty of Loews and Loebs).
My answer is:

The name Louis is based on similarities in the Hebrew letters used for the
two words Levy and Louis. Put the letter Samech to Levy in Hebrew and you
become Louis. Levy =Lamed -Wav -Yud . Louis =Lamed -Wav -Yud - Samech.So
you can see that we can do what we want with the name Louis. That the name
don't came in you family don't said anything. That you see a lot of name in
you family with Loeb and Loewe give me the filing that I am on the good way
with my sugesstion that Louis is Levy. Levy =Loewe = Leib. Arye =Loewe=
Leib. B.t.w, For the name Dan you can also use the term Lion or loewe and
it came >from Deuternomium cap 33 ,22 .

Ury link
Amsterdam
Holland

MODERATOR NOTE: See also the discussions in the JewishGen InfoFiles and
FAQ.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Louis is not Levy ? #general

Ury Link <uryl@...>
 

You wrot:
Not so fast, Ury. Some Levis took the name Loew and >from there some took
the name Loeb. Judah is referred to as a lion cup, so the name Yehuda-
Aryeh became common. Aryeh translates as Lion, Loel in German. My guess
is that for every Loeb who is a Levite, there are ten who got their name
because of Judah.
Louis is NOT Levy. Here and there you might see a link such as Levi,
Levenberg, Louis.
The civil name Louis may be given to Lemel, Lemech, Lazarus (Elazar),
Lurie . . . . or just about anyone
And on my family tree stretching back to 1625 approx, all Leviim, I see
not one Lieber nor any Louis (but plenty of Loews and Loebs).
My answer is:

The name Louis is based on similarities in the Hebrew letters used for the
two words Levy and Louis. Put the letter Samech to Levy in Hebrew and you
become Louis. Levy =Lamed -Wav -Yud . Louis =Lamed -Wav -Yud - Samech.So
you can see that we can do what we want with the name Louis. That the name
don't came in you family don't said anything. That you see a lot of name in
you family with Loeb and Loewe give me the filing that I am on the good way
with my sugesstion that Louis is Levy. Levy =Loewe = Leib. Arye =Loewe=
Leib. B.t.w, For the name Dan you can also use the term Lion or loewe and
it came >from Deuternomium cap 33 ,22 .

Ury link
Amsterdam
Holland

MODERATOR NOTE: See also the discussions in the JewishGen InfoFiles and
FAQ.