Date   

Re: Baron de Hirsh settlement #general

Warren Blatt <wblatt@...>
 

Ron Feldman <medserv@shaw.wave.ca> wrote:

I just found out that my GGrandfather came to Canada under the
auspices of Baron de Hirsh. He origanally went to a town called
Baron de Hirsh, Saskatchewan, which is now called Hirsh. I would
like to know if anyone knows where to find the records of Baron
de Hirsh...
The records of the Baron de Hirsch Fund are at the AJHS,
the American Jewish Historical Society in Waltham, Mass.
See <http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsgb/ajhs.html> for more
information.

Warren

Warren Blatt
Boston, MA
<wblatt@jewishgen.org>


Fall issue of AVOTAYNU #general

GARY MOKOTOFF <VHWC10A@...>
 

The Fall issue of Avotaynu is in the mail. The issue is unusually
large--92 pages rather than the normal 68--because of a 16-page
supplement written by Nancy Arbeiter, CGRS, titled "A Beginner's
Primer in U.S. Jewish Genealogical Research." Nancy has captured
the essence of Jewish genealogical research in a mere 16 pages,
covering such aspects as interviewing, evaluating evidence,
censuses, vital records, immigration records, naturalization papers
and a host of other resources. Even veteran genealogists will find
her article valuable.

Boris Feldblyum demonstrates his wide range of expertise by writing
two articles, one on strategies for breaking through brick walls
and the other a comprehensive history of Russian revision lists.
There are also articles on Jewish given names, Romania, Latvia,
Lithuania, Turkey, "Russian" archives and others.

Gary Mokotoff, Publisher
Avotaynu

Visit our Web site at http://www.avotaynu.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Baron de Hirsh settlement #general

Warren Blatt <wblatt@...>
 

Ron Feldman <medserv@shaw.wave.ca> wrote:

I just found out that my GGrandfather came to Canada under the
auspices of Baron de Hirsh. He origanally went to a town called
Baron de Hirsh, Saskatchewan, which is now called Hirsh. I would
like to know if anyone knows where to find the records of Baron
de Hirsh...
The records of the Baron de Hirsch Fund are at the AJHS,
the American Jewish Historical Society in Waltham, Mass.
See <http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsgb/ajhs.html> for more
information.

Warren

Warren Blatt
Boston, MA
<wblatt@jewishgen.org>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Fall issue of AVOTAYNU #general

GARY MOKOTOFF <VHWC10A@...>
 

The Fall issue of Avotaynu is in the mail. The issue is unusually
large--92 pages rather than the normal 68--because of a 16-page
supplement written by Nancy Arbeiter, CGRS, titled "A Beginner's
Primer in U.S. Jewish Genealogical Research." Nancy has captured
the essence of Jewish genealogical research in a mere 16 pages,
covering such aspects as interviewing, evaluating evidence,
censuses, vital records, immigration records, naturalization papers
and a host of other resources. Even veteran genealogists will find
her article valuable.

Boris Feldblyum demonstrates his wide range of expertise by writing
two articles, one on strategies for breaking through brick walls
and the other a comprehensive history of Russian revision lists.
There are also articles on Jewish given names, Romania, Latvia,
Lithuania, Turkey, "Russian" archives and others.

Gary Mokotoff, Publisher
Avotaynu

Visit our Web site at http://www.avotaynu.com


To AOL Subscribers #general

clevie@...
 

I've tried to respond privately to a few messages >from different AOL
subscribers, only to have my e-mails bounce back. Having been on AOL, I
know that it's possible to block messages >from individuals or from
entire groups of service providers. (I did the same thing when I
subscribed in an unsuccessful attempt to avoid the massive amounts of
junk mail.)

So, if you're on AOL and you're not getting many responses >from this
group, check your mail preferences. You may want to "unblock" us and
suffer through the spam!

Carol


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen To AOL Subscribers #general

clevie@...
 

I've tried to respond privately to a few messages >from different AOL
subscribers, only to have my e-mails bounce back. Having been on AOL, I
know that it's possible to block messages >from individuals or from
entire groups of service providers. (I did the same thing when I
subscribed in an unsuccessful attempt to avoid the massive amounts of
junk mail.)

So, if you're on AOL and you're not getting many responses >from this
group, check your mail preferences. You may want to "unblock" us and
suffer through the spam!

Carol


Hinde #general

hekan bengtsson <yvonne.hakan@...>
 

At my mothers tumbstone there its a second name wrote in jewish.A man helpt
me to tranlate it.
It is HINDE.Did anyone know what that means?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Hinde #general

hekan bengtsson <yvonne.hakan@...>
 

At my mothers tumbstone there its a second name wrote in jewish.A man helpt
me to tranlate it.
It is HINDE.Did anyone know what that means?


Success Story --TALALAY, Mogilev #general

dardasht@...
 

Dear Jewishgenners:
I told you about a new internet search I recently made. And how I
found a new (to me) TALALAY family living in Palo Alto, California (near
Stanford University, for those interested in such things).
I spoke to the grandmother, who had been in America for about two
years -- the longest conversation she had had in English in those two
years. After a few calls, and receiving some basic information, she
supplied me with the phone number in Moscow of her husband's 92-year-old
aunt who "remembers everything." Her husband knew his grandfather's name
and aunts' names, but really nothing else. So we decided to call Moscow.
I asked a friend, a former Russian immigrant >from Moscow, to call
Aunt Feigel in Moscow. This friend and her daughter had helped me several
years ago, writing letters in Russian to Mogilev for me, and translating
answers for several years. Sveta knows almost as much about the TALALAY
as about her own family at this point!!
My friend Sveta called Moscow and spoke to the elderly woman's
daughter, asking for whatever information she could provide, and they
made arrangements for Sveta to call back in a few days, after the
daughter had spoken with her mother.
Well, after a particularly long day and a congregational meeting,
I received a call >from Sveta at 10 p.m. "Schelly, I think these people
are yours," she said. "They come >from Vorotinschtina, your village
outside Mogilev."
Feigel/Fanya had remembered her grandfather David was a melamed,
a teacher, in the synagogue school in Vorotinschtina "outside Mogilev."
Vorotinschtina was an agricultural colony established in 1830 by
Baron Ginzburg, and populated mostly by TALALAY and related families.
Half our family was >from the colony and the other half in Mogilev,
descendents of Rabbi Leib, a Bet Din member and Talmudic scholar.
Aunt Feigel named her grandfather's children, Boris, Mikhail, and
Leib, the youngest. All these names figure prominently in our family as
well.
She named the 8 children, her siblings, of Boris her father:
Lazar, killed by Stalin in 1937(?), Rahil who died in 1972 in moscow in
her 90s, Rosa who died in 1996 in Boston also in her 90s, Fanya herself,
Yaakov, who was a Russian pilot in WWII, Lova who died in Moscow in WWII,
Abram who died as a young child, and Israel who died in moscow in WWII.
The children of Mikhail: Rosa and Lazar, more information coming on them.
The children of Leib: Zina and Lazar and some information on their
children and more coming.
As you can see, each had a son named Lazar, which (in the way
naming patterns frequent my family) seems to indicate David's father was
Lazar.
We have addresses now, and information will be exchanged, and
photographs copied. The family in California is sending me copies of
photographs with the grandfather Boris and some of the children.
A hint that I have picked up on when speaking with several
families now: When one asks about children/siblings, the answer tends to
be only the ones who are alive now, or who have died recently.
Those who died far in the past are not given, unless you find out
about it in another way. Once I got basic information >from Aunt Feigel, I
called the California family, and the wife did supply me with much more
information on the children of Boris, one by one, the wives, the
children, the circumstances.
When one asks about the wives, which is important also to our
research, the answer tends to be: but they weren't TALALAY.
The moral of this: do internet searches frequently and call
people on the phone -- you may be amazed at what you discover!
We have found what may be the children of David, the son of Rabbi
Leib, about whom we knew nothing, except that he existed. Now we will be
able to find out much more information. By the way, this group of TALALAY
in Moscow arrived very early, Aunt Feigel had no knowledge of any other
groups of TALALAY also in Moscow (but who arrived later). So we are
trying to figure out this puzzle as well.
Best regards to all.
Schelly Dardashti
dardasht@ix.netcom.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Success Story --TALALAY, Mogilev #general

dardasht@...
 

Dear Jewishgenners:
I told you about a new internet search I recently made. And how I
found a new (to me) TALALAY family living in Palo Alto, California (near
Stanford University, for those interested in such things).
I spoke to the grandmother, who had been in America for about two
years -- the longest conversation she had had in English in those two
years. After a few calls, and receiving some basic information, she
supplied me with the phone number in Moscow of her husband's 92-year-old
aunt who "remembers everything." Her husband knew his grandfather's name
and aunts' names, but really nothing else. So we decided to call Moscow.
I asked a friend, a former Russian immigrant >from Moscow, to call
Aunt Feigel in Moscow. This friend and her daughter had helped me several
years ago, writing letters in Russian to Mogilev for me, and translating
answers for several years. Sveta knows almost as much about the TALALAY
as about her own family at this point!!
My friend Sveta called Moscow and spoke to the elderly woman's
daughter, asking for whatever information she could provide, and they
made arrangements for Sveta to call back in a few days, after the
daughter had spoken with her mother.
Well, after a particularly long day and a congregational meeting,
I received a call >from Sveta at 10 p.m. "Schelly, I think these people
are yours," she said. "They come >from Vorotinschtina, your village
outside Mogilev."
Feigel/Fanya had remembered her grandfather David was a melamed,
a teacher, in the synagogue school in Vorotinschtina "outside Mogilev."
Vorotinschtina was an agricultural colony established in 1830 by
Baron Ginzburg, and populated mostly by TALALAY and related families.
Half our family was >from the colony and the other half in Mogilev,
descendents of Rabbi Leib, a Bet Din member and Talmudic scholar.
Aunt Feigel named her grandfather's children, Boris, Mikhail, and
Leib, the youngest. All these names figure prominently in our family as
well.
She named the 8 children, her siblings, of Boris her father:
Lazar, killed by Stalin in 1937(?), Rahil who died in 1972 in moscow in
her 90s, Rosa who died in 1996 in Boston also in her 90s, Fanya herself,
Yaakov, who was a Russian pilot in WWII, Lova who died in Moscow in WWII,
Abram who died as a young child, and Israel who died in moscow in WWII.
The children of Mikhail: Rosa and Lazar, more information coming on them.
The children of Leib: Zina and Lazar and some information on their
children and more coming.
As you can see, each had a son named Lazar, which (in the way
naming patterns frequent my family) seems to indicate David's father was
Lazar.
We have addresses now, and information will be exchanged, and
photographs copied. The family in California is sending me copies of
photographs with the grandfather Boris and some of the children.
A hint that I have picked up on when speaking with several
families now: When one asks about children/siblings, the answer tends to
be only the ones who are alive now, or who have died recently.
Those who died far in the past are not given, unless you find out
about it in another way. Once I got basic information >from Aunt Feigel, I
called the California family, and the wife did supply me with much more
information on the children of Boris, one by one, the wives, the
children, the circumstances.
When one asks about the wives, which is important also to our
research, the answer tends to be: but they weren't TALALAY.
The moral of this: do internet searches frequently and call
people on the phone -- you may be amazed at what you discover!
We have found what may be the children of David, the son of Rabbi
Leib, about whom we knew nothing, except that he existed. Now we will be
able to find out much more information. By the way, this group of TALALAY
in Moscow arrived very early, Aunt Feigel had no knowledge of any other
groups of TALALAY also in Moscow (but who arrived later). So we are
trying to figure out this puzzle as well.
Best regards to all.
Schelly Dardashti
dardasht@ix.netcom.com


Re: Civil marriages #general

michael slifkin <slifkin@...>
 

Most synagogues came under the authority of the Chief rabbi who insisted
that all synagogue wedding were also registered with the civil authorities.
The UK synagogues were allowed to register their own marriages via means of
a Marriage Secretary, only the Church of England and Quakers had this
privilege I was a marriage secretary for many years of a synagogue whose
records went back to 1905. This incidentally was a right wing Orthodox
synagogue and there was no evidence in the archives of the synagogue
performing weddings without civil registration.

David Kravitz wrote:

In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.

mailto:dkravitz@bournemouth.ac.uk
---
Visit the JewishGen website: http://www.jewishgen.org
--
***********************
Professor M A Slifkin
Jerusalem, Israel
***********************


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Civil marriages #general

michael slifkin <slifkin@...>
 

Most synagogues came under the authority of the Chief rabbi who insisted
that all synagogue wedding were also registered with the civil authorities.
The UK synagogues were allowed to register their own marriages via means of
a Marriage Secretary, only the Church of England and Quakers had this
privilege I was a marriage secretary for many years of a synagogue whose
records went back to 1905. This incidentally was a right wing Orthodox
synagogue and there was no evidence in the archives of the synagogue
performing weddings without civil registration.

David Kravitz wrote:

In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.

mailto:dkravitz@bournemouth.ac.uk
---
Visit the JewishGen website: http://www.jewishgen.org
--
***********************
Professor M A Slifkin
Jerusalem, Israel
***********************


Re: synagogue marriages in England #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

In article <v03010d09b26b2d8ecae6@[128.148.19.87]>,
jrw@Brown.edu (Judith Romney Wegner) wrote:

Subject: Civil marriages
From: David Kravitz <>
In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.
This strikes me as a very strange assertion and I am wondering on what it
is based! It may have been true in countries like Poland, but certainly
not in England, where people were and are very concerned about matters of
civil law. But Jews didn't marry in registry offices because this was not
necessary for the marriage to be valid in English law! A synagogue marriage
sufficed for this purpose.
I have experienced the reverse case where a couple were married in a
registry office and then subsequently they were given a quiet religious
service. They might not have been at all religious at the time or one
partner might have been converted.

On both occasions, as a teenager, I was asked to come quietly to the
rabbi's house to form a minyan for the ceremony. It was made clear that we
should keep quiet about this.

In a United Synagogue and other synagogues the ketubah is witnessed at the
end of the ceremony and the the civil register is signed and witnessed
immediately after the ceremony.

As Dr Wegner implies, everything about the practice of the United Synagogue
would be constructed to ape the practices of the Christian world. Far from
evading the law of the land the story of the emancipation of the Jew in
England has been one of a wish to assume the rights and responsibilities of
their countryman.

Nick Landau

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: synagogue marriages in England #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

In article <v03010d09b26b2d8ecae6@[128.148.19.87]>,
jrw@Brown.edu (Judith Romney Wegner) wrote:

Subject: Civil marriages
From: David Kravitz <>
In the UK there were financial advantages to being single until sometime
shortly after WW1. The reverse is now true. Many orthodox Jews thus chose
to marry only in a synagogue. Married in the eyes of God, but not married
in a civil sense was of no interest.
This strikes me as a very strange assertion and I am wondering on what it
is based! It may have been true in countries like Poland, but certainly
not in England, where people were and are very concerned about matters of
civil law. But Jews didn't marry in registry offices because this was not
necessary for the marriage to be valid in English law! A synagogue marriage
sufficed for this purpose.
I have experienced the reverse case where a couple were married in a
registry office and then subsequently they were given a quiet religious
service. They might not have been at all religious at the time or one
partner might have been converted.

On both occasions, as a teenager, I was asked to come quietly to the
rabbi's house to form a minyan for the ceremony. It was made clear that we
should keep quiet about this.

In a United Synagogue and other synagogues the ketubah is witnessed at the
end of the ceremony and the the civil register is signed and witnessed
immediately after the ceremony.

As Dr Wegner implies, everything about the practice of the United Synagogue
would be constructed to ape the practices of the Christian world. Far from
evading the law of the land the story of the emancipation of the Jew in
England has been one of a wish to assume the rights and responsibilities of
their countryman.

Nick Landau

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.


Rabbi M and the city of "Shaag" #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Dear Rabbi Marmorstein,

I imagine you have been very busy the past several months. Your abscence
here has been noticed and, therefore, I wanted to take this opportunity to
tell you how much I and h-sig have missed your erudite and informative
contributions.

When I read your request for suggestions regarding a more specific
identification of the city "Sha'ag", the first location that came to mind
was the town of Ipolyshag (pronounced Ee-pole-shaag), and known today as
Sahy. This town is currently found in the Slovak Republic, and according to
WWWW it is 139km E. of Bratislava. I also refer you to the Yizkor book: Ner
Tamid L'Zeicher Yehadut Iposhag V'Hasviva/ Orokmecses - Sahy-Ipolysag es
kornyeke, Martirjainak emlekere, edited by A. Ascher and J.
Gidron/Gartebzaum, published by Ronil Press located in Nahariya (Israel) in
1994. If you have difficulty securing the book please let me know, and I can
assist you further.

I am also in the process of compiling a list for our sig and Jewishgen of
Hungarian Jewish family trees and histories, published or in manuscript
form. If you or anyone reading this knows of such printed materials please
let me know; especially, if these documents or books might be located in
Israel, since I will be travelling there shortly. Any leads along this line
would be appreciated.

Louis Schonfeld
Lmagyar@en.com


P.S. During my short stay in Israel, I will also try to visit Gondos es
Sossana in Haifa, the only legitimate Hungarian bookstore in the country. If
you absolutely must have a Yizkor book I will try to obtain one for you
there. If you know of other sources to purchase Hungarian Yizkor books in
Israel please advise me of this as well. Please respond privately.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Rabbi M and the city of "Shaag" #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Dear Rabbi Marmorstein,

I imagine you have been very busy the past several months. Your abscence
here has been noticed and, therefore, I wanted to take this opportunity to
tell you how much I and h-sig have missed your erudite and informative
contributions.

When I read your request for suggestions regarding a more specific
identification of the city "Sha'ag", the first location that came to mind
was the town of Ipolyshag (pronounced Ee-pole-shaag), and known today as
Sahy. This town is currently found in the Slovak Republic, and according to
WWWW it is 139km E. of Bratislava. I also refer you to the Yizkor book: Ner
Tamid L'Zeicher Yehadut Iposhag V'Hasviva/ Orokmecses - Sahy-Ipolysag es
kornyeke, Martirjainak emlekere, edited by A. Ascher and J.
Gidron/Gartebzaum, published by Ronil Press located in Nahariya (Israel) in
1994. If you have difficulty securing the book please let me know, and I can
assist you further.

I am also in the process of compiling a list for our sig and Jewishgen of
Hungarian Jewish family trees and histories, published or in manuscript
form. If you or anyone reading this knows of such printed materials please
let me know; especially, if these documents or books might be located in
Israel, since I will be travelling there shortly. Any leads along this line
would be appreciated.

Louis Schonfeld
Lmagyar@en.com


P.S. During my short stay in Israel, I will also try to visit Gondos es
Sossana in Haifa, the only legitimate Hungarian bookstore in the country. If
you absolutely must have a Yizkor book I will try to obtain one for you
there. If you know of other sources to purchase Hungarian Yizkor books in
Israel please advise me of this as well. Please respond privately.


What does given name "Lerle" translate to? #general

Ronald D. Doctor <rondoctor@...>
 

I have run across an entry in one of Glazier's books for a man named Lerle
DUBINSKI. Almost all the details in the entry for Lerle and his family
match those of my great-grandfather and his family. However, my ggf was
known as Louis. Does "Lerle" translate to "Louis"? If not, what would it
translate to?

Ron Doctor
rondoctor@cis.com


Re: Sean FERGUSON story #general

Beth Wellington <wellingtonbj@...>
 

Another family story of an odd name: WELLINGTON

Three brothers, Sephardic on their father's side, at least, one my
paternal grandfather, left Belarus, not because of the authorities,
but because of discord with their adoptive father, an Ashkenazi whose
name may have started with something like a "W".

They came to the U.S. via Holland and thus arrived in Boston, not
Ellis Island. All spoke many languages, including English. "Name,"
asked the immigration clerk. With this question, they started a
discussion of whether they had to give the last name of their adoptive
father, which was on their papers, or whether they could give their
father's name, which sounded something like DiAveros.

This was not a discussion to be held in English, of course. But the
immigration clerk, hearing them "babble" in Russian assumed they
hadn't understood his question. Now, in those days, my grandfather
had red hair and this appealed to the clerk, who was Irish. And so,
in order to expedite things, the clerk said, "You're a fine looking
lad and I'll help you go far: Wellington" and stamped the papers for
not only Grandfather but his two brothers.

Beth

---skolto@my-dejanews.com wrote:

Here's the story I heard about my family name:

Back in Baranovich, in Belorus, my grandfather was the youngest of
several brothers and sisters....


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen What does given name "Lerle" translate to? #general

Ronald D. Doctor <rondoctor@...>
 

I have run across an entry in one of Glazier's books for a man named Lerle
DUBINSKI. Almost all the details in the entry for Lerle and his family
match those of my great-grandfather and his family. However, my ggf was
known as Louis. Does "Lerle" translate to "Louis"? If not, what would it
translate to?

Ron Doctor
rondoctor@cis.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Sean FERGUSON story #general

Beth Wellington <wellingtonbj@...>
 

Another family story of an odd name: WELLINGTON

Three brothers, Sephardic on their father's side, at least, one my
paternal grandfather, left Belarus, not because of the authorities,
but because of discord with their adoptive father, an Ashkenazi whose
name may have started with something like a "W".

They came to the U.S. via Holland and thus arrived in Boston, not
Ellis Island. All spoke many languages, including English. "Name,"
asked the immigration clerk. With this question, they started a
discussion of whether they had to give the last name of their adoptive
father, which was on their papers, or whether they could give their
father's name, which sounded something like DiAveros.

This was not a discussion to be held in English, of course. But the
immigration clerk, hearing them "babble" in Russian assumed they
hadn't understood his question. Now, in those days, my grandfather
had red hair and this appealed to the clerk, who was Irish. And so,
in order to expedite things, the clerk said, "You're a fine looking
lad and I'll help you go far: Wellington" and stamped the papers for
not only Grandfather but his two brothers.

Beth

---skolto@my-dejanews.com wrote:

Here's the story I heard about my family name:

Back in Baranovich, in Belorus, my grandfather was the youngest of
several brothers and sisters....