Date   

Could Shinche be Simcha? #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

As long as Mr. Pollins is asking about unusual names, my great-great-
grandmother >from Latvia was (variously spelled) Shinche. In the US she
also apparently went by Cynthia, as well.
Claire Petersky (petersky@halcyon.com)
Here's one POSSIBLE scenario for a name spelled "Shin-che" -- it could
have originally been Sim-cha!
The Hebrew name Simcha (meaning Joy) is quite common and can be given to
both males and females. So I am wondering whether "Shinche" (or the other
"variously spelled" versions to which you alluded) was simply a
bowdlerization that occurred when the name was originally transcribed from
Yiddish characters to Roman characters in Latvia back in the 19th century.
"SH" and "S"are very close in sound and in fact they are the same alphabet
letter in Hebrew and Yiddish -- so a transcription >from Yiddish into
Latvian could very easily have rendered that letter as "SH" instead of
just plain"S." Alternatively, it may be that like many other European
languages, Latvian uses just plain S for the SH sound (perhaps with a
diacritical mark on top to indicate that this S is a SH and not a mere S);
so even if they wrote it down correctly as S, it might have acquired a mark
later on by accident. (Maybe someone who knows Latvian can tell us whether
the S character is indeed used for both sounds.)

In the same way, m and n are very close in sound -- and in many languages
they can interchange, depending on the sound of the adjacent letter (e.g.,
in Latin and languages derived therefrom, the prefix in- changes to im-
before a word beginning with b or p (like "import" or "imbalance"). So
it's not hard to imagine the Hebrew/Yiddish name Simcha being distorted to
"Shinche" in transliteration. And if your gg-grandmother was illiterate,
or could read only Yiddish alphabet and not Roman alphabet (as is highly
likely back in the 19th century) she could easily have continued to
pronounce her name Simcha while spelling it Sinche because that's how some
Latvian official had told her to write it in Roman letters! Also,you say
she called herself Cynthia later on. A woman named Simcha could easily
select the "sound-alike" name Cynthia when she came to America.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Could Shinche be Simcha? #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

As long as Mr. Pollins is asking about unusual names, my great-great-
grandmother >from Latvia was (variously spelled) Shinche. In the US she
also apparently went by Cynthia, as well.
Claire Petersky (petersky@halcyon.com)
Here's one POSSIBLE scenario for a name spelled "Shin-che" -- it could
have originally been Sim-cha!
The Hebrew name Simcha (meaning Joy) is quite common and can be given to
both males and females. So I am wondering whether "Shinche" (or the other
"variously spelled" versions to which you alluded) was simply a
bowdlerization that occurred when the name was originally transcribed from
Yiddish characters to Roman characters in Latvia back in the 19th century.
"SH" and "S"are very close in sound and in fact they are the same alphabet
letter in Hebrew and Yiddish -- so a transcription >from Yiddish into
Latvian could very easily have rendered that letter as "SH" instead of
just plain"S." Alternatively, it may be that like many other European
languages, Latvian uses just plain S for the SH sound (perhaps with a
diacritical mark on top to indicate that this S is a SH and not a mere S);
so even if they wrote it down correctly as S, it might have acquired a mark
later on by accident. (Maybe someone who knows Latvian can tell us whether
the S character is indeed used for both sounds.)

In the same way, m and n are very close in sound -- and in many languages
they can interchange, depending on the sound of the adjacent letter (e.g.,
in Latin and languages derived therefrom, the prefix in- changes to im-
before a word beginning with b or p (like "import" or "imbalance"). So
it's not hard to imagine the Hebrew/Yiddish name Simcha being distorted to
"Shinche" in transliteration. And if your gg-grandmother was illiterate,
or could read only Yiddish alphabet and not Roman alphabet (as is highly
likely back in the 19th century) she could easily have continued to
pronounce her name Simcha while spelling it Sinche because that's how some
Latvian official had told her to write it in Roman letters! Also,you say
she called herself Cynthia later on. A woman named Simcha could easily
select the "sound-alike" name Cynthia when she came to America.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


Does Nathan = Anton? #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Tom Venetianer asked:

My paternal great-great-granfather was Nathan Venetianer. There is no doubt
that he existed and about his given name as I found dozens of references on
him in LDS films. According to my first and original source (my father) he
was born at Smrecsany, Slovakia in 1800 and died at Kezmarok, Slovakia in
1888.
Yesterday I received >from the Slovak Archives the death certificate of Mr.
Anton Weneczianer (Antal in Hungarian) born at Liptovsky Mikulas, Slovakia
in 1800 and having died at Kezmarok in 1888.
Observation: Smrecsany and Liptovsky Mikulas are very close to each other,
about 3 miles apart, in the Liptov county, Slovakia.
Can it be that Anton and Nathan are the same person? Is Anton the Slovak
(or Slavish) equivalent of Nathan?
As a longtime reader of this Digest, Tom Venetianer surely recalls that we
have often pointed out that matching Hebrew and European forename is not
usually about "equivalents" but almost always about "sound-alikes," because
most Jews who adopted European forenames simply chose a sound-alike name.
The sound-correspondence between Nathan (Na-tan) and Anton (An-ton) is
about as close as one could hope to find when looking for a "match" for
Nathan). May we all be that lucky in our genealogical searches!

And when one adds to the closeness in sound the EXACT correspondence in the
birth dates, the death dates and the place of death, plus the close
proximity of the two options Tom has for the birthplace, it is
statistically impossible to avoid concluding that Nathan and Anton
Venetianer were indeed the same person!

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Does Nathan = Anton? #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Tom Venetianer asked:

My paternal great-great-granfather was Nathan Venetianer. There is no doubt
that he existed and about his given name as I found dozens of references on
him in LDS films. According to my first and original source (my father) he
was born at Smrecsany, Slovakia in 1800 and died at Kezmarok, Slovakia in
1888.
Yesterday I received >from the Slovak Archives the death certificate of Mr.
Anton Weneczianer (Antal in Hungarian) born at Liptovsky Mikulas, Slovakia
in 1800 and having died at Kezmarok in 1888.
Observation: Smrecsany and Liptovsky Mikulas are very close to each other,
about 3 miles apart, in the Liptov county, Slovakia.
Can it be that Anton and Nathan are the same person? Is Anton the Slovak
(or Slavish) equivalent of Nathan?
As a longtime reader of this Digest, Tom Venetianer surely recalls that we
have often pointed out that matching Hebrew and European forename is not
usually about "equivalents" but almost always about "sound-alikes," because
most Jews who adopted European forenames simply chose a sound-alike name.
The sound-correspondence between Nathan (Na-tan) and Anton (An-ton) is
about as close as one could hope to find when looking for a "match" for
Nathan). May we all be that lucky in our genealogical searches!

And when one adds to the closeness in sound the EXACT correspondence in the
birth dates, the death dates and the place of death, plus the close
proximity of the two options Tom has for the birthplace, it is
statistically impossible to avoid concluding that Nathan and Anton
Venetianer were indeed the same person!

Judith Romney Wegner


Yitzchok Meir or Yisroel Meir. #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

.>He had two sons: Shea (short for Yehoshua--not Irish!), who became known
as Sam
in New York City (he ran a dry-goods store on the Lower East Side), and
Yitzchok Meir (or something like that--I don't recall his name offhand).
Mendy Hecht

Sorry I can't help with your family search as such , but I'd like to offer
a suggestion. If you can't recall for sure whether the second son's name
was actually Yitzchok-Meir or whether it may have been just "something like
that", you might want to consider the possibility that his name may have
been Yisro'el-Meir. Yisro'el Meir is a common combination, because it
was the name of a famous and saintly figure, the rabbi-scholar Yisroel Meir
Ha-Cohen, 1838-1933 -- better known as "the Hafetz Hayyim." Many
orthodox Jews still name their sons Yisroel Meir after him today! Just
thought I'd mention this in case the name Yisro'el Meir shows up elsewhere
in the family.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Yitzchok Meir or Yisroel Meir. #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

.>He had two sons: Shea (short for Yehoshua--not Irish!), who became known
as Sam
in New York City (he ran a dry-goods store on the Lower East Side), and
Yitzchok Meir (or something like that--I don't recall his name offhand).
Mendy Hecht

Sorry I can't help with your family search as such , but I'd like to offer
a suggestion. If you can't recall for sure whether the second son's name
was actually Yitzchok-Meir or whether it may have been just "something like
that", you might want to consider the possibility that his name may have
been Yisro'el-Meir. Yisro'el Meir is a common combination, because it
was the name of a famous and saintly figure, the rabbi-scholar Yisroel Meir
Ha-Cohen, 1838-1933 -- better known as "the Hafetz Hayyim." Many
orthodox Jews still name their sons Yisroel Meir after him today! Just
thought I'd mention this in case the name Yisro'el Meir shows up elsewhere
in the family.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


Ellis Island #general

Dr. Josef Ash <j_ash@...>
 

Couple a days ago I saw (for the first time, sorry!) the first part of the
"Godfather".
There is some half a minute scene of that boy-godfather's arrival to US
through Ellis Island, naturally.
NOW I understand what is the reason, source and origine of all these
questions of the american Jewishgenners about the names changing and wrong
written place of origine and so on.
One can never know where he can learn!!!
Dr. Josef ASH


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Ellis Island #general

Dr. Josef Ash <j_ash@...>
 

Couple a days ago I saw (for the first time, sorry!) the first part of the
"Godfather".
There is some half a minute scene of that boy-godfather's arrival to US
through Ellis Island, naturally.
NOW I understand what is the reason, source and origine of all these
questions of the american Jewishgenners about the names changing and wrong
written place of origine and so on.
One can never know where he can learn!!!
Dr. Josef ASH


Re: Farkas from Hungary #general

Vivian Kahn
 

I don't think I was the person who posted the message to which Marilyn
responded, but I do have a FARKAS relative >from Hungary. My great-uncle
David BERKOVICS fm Ujvaros, Hungary, (now Orasu Nou, Rom.) married Sarah
FARKOSCH. They emigrated to the US sometime after 1912 and moved to Detroit.
Their son Jacob BERKOWITZ, who was born in Hungary in 1912, worked for the
Ford Motor Co. at River Rogue. He died in 1981 in Livonia, MI. I would
appreciate hearing >from anyone with info on this family.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA

Researching:

BAAL/BERKOVICS/BERKOWITZ/ROTH/Orasu Nou, Satu Mare, Rom. (Ujvaros, Hung.)
;/Ujvaros, Szinervaralja, Hung. (Siene, Rom.), NYC, Detroit, Israel
KAHN/KAHAN/COHEN/Sighetu Marmatei, Rom.(Sziget, Maramaros, Hun), London,
NY3:26 AM 10/17/98C, Los Angeles
MOSKOVITS/MOSKOWITZ/Ostrov (Ozstro), Sobrance (Szobrancz, Hun.),
Michalovce, Slov. (Nagymihaly, Hun.), Munkacs,Ungvar, NYC

SNIP...List edited to maximum allowed 6 lines
Marilyn Mesh wrote:

I am so sorry, but I accidently deleted this email and know someone
whose mother was a Farkas >from Hungary. And nothing I seem to do in
AOL will get it back for me. So, PLEASE, whomever posted this, email
me privately and I will pass it on. Thank you.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Farkas from Hungary #general

Vivian Kahn
 

I don't think I was the person who posted the message to which Marilyn
responded, but I do have a FARKAS relative >from Hungary. My great-uncle
David BERKOVICS fm Ujvaros, Hungary, (now Orasu Nou, Rom.) married Sarah
FARKOSCH. They emigrated to the US sometime after 1912 and moved to Detroit.
Their son Jacob BERKOWITZ, who was born in Hungary in 1912, worked for the
Ford Motor Co. at River Rogue. He died in 1981 in Livonia, MI. I would
appreciate hearing >from anyone with info on this family.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA

Researching:

BAAL/BERKOVICS/BERKOWITZ/ROTH/Orasu Nou, Satu Mare, Rom. (Ujvaros, Hung.)
;/Ujvaros, Szinervaralja, Hung. (Siene, Rom.), NYC, Detroit, Israel
KAHN/KAHAN/COHEN/Sighetu Marmatei, Rom.(Sziget, Maramaros, Hun), London,
NY3:26 AM 10/17/98C, Los Angeles
MOSKOVITS/MOSKOWITZ/Ostrov (Ozstro), Sobrance (Szobrancz, Hun.),
Michalovce, Slov. (Nagymihaly, Hun.), Munkacs,Ungvar, NYC

SNIP...List edited to maximum allowed 6 lines
Marilyn Mesh wrote:

I am so sorry, but I accidently deleted this email and know someone
whose mother was a Farkas >from Hungary. And nothing I seem to do in
AOL will get it back for me. So, PLEASE, whomever posted this, email
me privately and I will pass it on. Thank you.


Schuylkill County, PA help needed #general

Kalman Appel <kaappel@...>
 

Can anyone in or near Schuylkill County do a short City Directory
look-up for me and, depending on the results, a short lookup at the
Schuylkill County Courthouse?

If so, please contact me privately.

Thanks.


--- Kalman Appel
kaappel@ibm.net <- use ONLY this as MAILTO address


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Schuylkill County, PA help needed #general

Kalman Appel <kaappel@...>
 

Can anyone in or near Schuylkill County do a short City Directory
look-up for me and, depending on the results, a short lookup at the
Schuylkill County Courthouse?

If so, please contact me privately.

Thanks.


--- Kalman Appel
kaappel@ibm.net <- use ONLY this as MAILTO address


Occupation Auslaufer? #general

SSeckbach
 

Can anyone tell me what an Auslaufer was? This was the occupation listed on a
Frankfurt death certificate late 1800's.

Thanks

Sim Seckbach
Sim Seckbach
Sseckbach@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Occupation Auslaufer? #general

SSeckbach
 

Can anyone tell me what an Auslaufer was? This was the occupation listed on a
Frankfurt death certificate late 1800's.

Thanks

Sim Seckbach
Sim Seckbach
Sseckbach@aol.com


War Veterans and Son's Association #general

RKE107 <rke107@...>
 

I have been trying to find anything that can help me with my research on the
ARNOW family. Nathan fought in the Civil War. I have a copy of a letter he
wrote, applying for a pension increase. It is written on stationery >from the
above assn. Their headquarters were in Borough Hall....I believe in Brooklyn.
The date of this letter is 1912. If anybody knows this organization or has
any questions...please contact me personally. The only help I can give you is
the long list of officers on the side of the stationery. Unfortunately, most
names do not sound Jewish. Nathan Arnow is listed as the Treasurer...his
address i962 DeKalb Ave.. His son Arthur is first V.P. Does anyone know
DeKalb? Nathan's wife was Lenore Schneller and their children were Arthur,
b.1885 and Jessie b.1883. Jessie married Henry Gruenfeld. That is all I
know.....does anything ring a bell with anyone? Thanks in advance for any help
I can get. Rosann Epner
Highland Park,IL.
RKE107@
aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen War Veterans and Son's Association #general

RKE107 <rke107@...>
 

I have been trying to find anything that can help me with my research on the
ARNOW family. Nathan fought in the Civil War. I have a copy of a letter he
wrote, applying for a pension increase. It is written on stationery >from the
above assn. Their headquarters were in Borough Hall....I believe in Brooklyn.
The date of this letter is 1912. If anybody knows this organization or has
any questions...please contact me personally. The only help I can give you is
the long list of officers on the side of the stationery. Unfortunately, most
names do not sound Jewish. Nathan Arnow is listed as the Treasurer...his
address i962 DeKalb Ave.. His son Arthur is first V.P. Does anyone know
DeKalb? Nathan's wife was Lenore Schneller and their children were Arthur,
b.1885 and Jessie b.1883. Jessie married Henry Gruenfeld. That is all I
know.....does anything ring a bell with anyone? Thanks in advance for any help
I can get. Rosann Epner
Highland Park,IL.
RKE107@
aol.com


ships arriving in the late 1800's to NY #general

Robin Sloan <sneakers@...>
 

Here's a list with a few ships that arrived in NY in those "non-indexed"
years. Hope this helps.

http://pixel.cs.vt.edu:70/0/GRG/Ships/grhsship.txt

Robin Sloan
Indianapolis


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ships arriving in the late 1800's to NY #general

Robin Sloan <sneakers@...>
 

Here's a list with a few ships that arrived in NY in those "non-indexed"
years. Hope this helps.

http://pixel.cs.vt.edu:70/0/GRG/Ships/grhsship.txt

Robin Sloan
Indianapolis


"Jciek"= Yitzhak #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

would the name "Jciek" in Abram Jciek be the equivalent of
Itzhak?
>
Jose Gutstein
JMG-Miami@msn.com
Yes, this does look like an attempt to transliterate Yitzhak!

In Hebrew, Yitzhak begins with a "Y" sound (often "lost" in the Yiddish
pronunciation Itzik, same as happens with the word Yiddish, which in
Yiddish itself is often pronounced "Iddish"). And of course the letter J
has a "Y" sound in Polish as in German, Latin, and many other languages.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen "Jciek"= Yitzhak #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

would the name "Jciek" in Abram Jciek be the equivalent of
Itzhak?
>
Jose Gutstein
JMG-Miami@msn.com
Yes, this does look like an attempt to transliterate Yitzhak!

In Hebrew, Yitzhak begins with a "Y" sound (often "lost" in the Yiddish
pronunciation Itzik, same as happens with the word Yiddish, which in
Yiddish itself is often pronounced "Iddish"). And of course the letter J
has a "Y" sound in Polish as in German, Latin, and many other languages.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu