Date   

Re: your retort to Dr. Nadler's remarks, Center for Jewish History. #hungary

SHINBET8@...
 

I agree with Louis Schonfeld's statements regarding the ommission of Hungarian Jewry within this institution.

To exclude Hungarian Jewry within this institution is
totally unacceptable. Dr Nadler speaks of "unity", however, how can there be unity if one major group is not included.

I wish to quote a few lines out of "A Jew Today", by Elie Wiesel. Page 188,

" A Jew is forever surrounded, if not shielded, by his community, both
physically and spiritually." Another quote, on Page 188, " Now, as always, Jews are intimately linked one to the other. Shout here and you will be heard in Kiev, Shout in Kiev and you will be heard in Paris. When Jews are sad in Jerusalem, Jews everywhere reflect their sadness. Thus a Jew lives in more than one place, in more than one era, on more than one level. To be Jewish is to possessed of a historical consciousness that transcends individual consciousness."


Walter F, Shinbet8@aol.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: your retort to Dr. Nadler's remarks, Center for Jewish History. #hungary

SHINBET8@...
 

I agree with Louis Schonfeld's statements regarding the ommission of Hungarian Jewry within this institution.

To exclude Hungarian Jewry within this institution is
totally unacceptable. Dr Nadler speaks of "unity", however, how can there be unity if one major group is not included.

I wish to quote a few lines out of "A Jew Today", by Elie Wiesel. Page 188,

" A Jew is forever surrounded, if not shielded, by his community, both
physically and spiritually." Another quote, on Page 188, " Now, as always, Jews are intimately linked one to the other. Shout here and you will be heard in Kiev, Shout in Kiev and you will be heard in Paris. When Jews are sad in Jerusalem, Jews everywhere reflect their sadness. Thus a Jew lives in more than one place, in more than one era, on more than one level. To be Jewish is to possessed of a historical consciousness that transcends individual consciousness."


Walter F, Shinbet8@aol.com


1925 NY State Census #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

For anyone interested in the NY State census of 1925 (or other
years)--they are not held in Albany, but at the county hall of
whatever county you are interested in.

Particularly useful is the 1892 census which is close to the missing
1890 federal census.

Sally Bruckheimer


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen 1925 NY State Census #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

For anyone interested in the NY State census of 1925 (or other
years)--they are not held in Albany, but at the county hall of
whatever county you are interested in.

Particularly useful is the 1892 census which is close to the missing
1890 federal census.

Sally Bruckheimer


Re: Comments on the content of TE VAGY A TANU! #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

In responding to Stephen Grosz's question about anti-Semitic legislation prior to the German's direct takeover of Hungary in March 1944
maja@netvision.net.il schrieb (means-writes):


Regarding your question on the role of Horthy in connection with
the Hungarian jews: Hungary in the years of 1920-1940, i.e between
the two world wars had a very strong and prosperous middle class.
(By the way, these were the richest years in the history of culture
of this country: Some of the greatest physicist, like Neumann,Wiegner,
Teller and Szilard were born and educated there, the greatest
poets like Ady, Attila Jozsef,painters like Csontvary and huge
musicians like Bartok, Kodaly, Szigeti,Szekely Mihaly and many-many
others lived and created in this period). This society was based on
two elements: the gentries, most of whome once belonged to the
nobility and were or wished to be land-owners and the other group:
the bourgeoisie.To the latter belonged the large factory owners,
the merchants and the intellectuals, like journalists, artists
and educated professionals.

The hungarian society rested on these two pillars. The
majority of the bourgeoisie was Jewish. Just as an example, more,
than 25% of the capital Budapest was Jewish - more,than 250.000
only in the city.

Horthy himself was rather deeply involved in and connected to
both groups.One of his sons, for example, had a Jewish wife.
Under the antisemitic pressure, the government accepted anti-
Jewish laws already in the 20-th years, which became harder after
the second world war broke out.The grown up Jewish male population
was taken to forced labour camps already in 1940. There they were
treated harshly,but the authorities refused to transfer them to
Germany or to other death camps in Easter Europe. Hence the great
majority of the Jews were still free and alive till March 1944
when the Germans occupied Hungary - in spite of beeing allies.
I tend to beleive, that the Hungarian government and Horthy did not
want to take part in the genocide of the Jews, though many
Hungarians did and gave hand to the murder of some 400.000 of us.

You can find a more autentic, detailed and comprehensive description on the subject,for instance in the book of Raphael Patai; "The Jews in
Hungary". Still,you can perhaps also feel the emotions of a survivor.

The best regards,
David

E-mail: maja@netvision.net.il
Date: 8/30/98
Time: 20:10:16

Miryam and David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel
-------------------------------------
[Mod.-now comes Gabor Hirsch to add to or clarify what David Gordon writes]

The picture you draw about the time of the Horthy regime is not quite complete: The population of Budapest is according Randolph L. Braham (and other sources) in 1941 184,453. There was some antisemitism already in the 30s under minister/president Daranyi and Imredy the first antijewish law was created. Followed in short succesion by the second (anti-Jewish law) Dec. 1938 by Mr. Teleki/& Tasnadi Nagy, the 3rd antijewish law under Mr. Bardossy Aug. 1941.
In the murder in Kamanec- Podolsk of several thousend expelled (18,000) Jews, Hungary was at least partly to blame as well for the attrocities against the Jews in Ujvidek (today Novi Sad). Edmund Weesenmayer stated during the trial against Ferenczy Laszlo: (about the collection and deportation of Hungarian Jewry starting in the Spring of 1944) To
fufill such a big task in a three month period, was only possible with the
enthusiastic help of the Hungarian authorities. If I am correct the German
occupation was an response to Horthy's attempt to enter a separate treaty with the Allies. I would recommend for everybody who is interested in the fate of the Hungarian Jewry in the 1940s to also read Randolph L. Braham book: The Politics of the Genocide. The Holocaust in Hungary I-II (Columbia
University Press 1981) or its Hungarian translation (1988): A Magyar Holocaust. It gives detailed and researched information about the Shoa, as well as specific, county and town information about the Hungarian involvement in the deportation to the camps
Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


Re: First name Marfia #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

Are you sure that the "i" belongs there? If not, "Marfa" is how
"Martha" would come out for a Russian, whose language does not
have the THeta sound.

 Can anyone tell me what this might translate to?

 Yddish , Hebrew, English, Russian
 Is it Mary?

Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

(Remove "takeout" >from domain; change "sheol" to "stan". Sorry)
NEACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ISMACH, ROKITA: Lomza Gubernia,
Poland
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Romania


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Comments on the content of TE VAGY A TANU! #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

In responding to Stephen Grosz's question about anti-Semitic legislation prior to the German's direct takeover of Hungary in March 1944
maja@netvision.net.il schrieb (means-writes):


Regarding your question on the role of Horthy in connection with
the Hungarian jews: Hungary in the years of 1920-1940, i.e between
the two world wars had a very strong and prosperous middle class.
(By the way, these were the richest years in the history of culture
of this country: Some of the greatest physicist, like Neumann,Wiegner,
Teller and Szilard were born and educated there, the greatest
poets like Ady, Attila Jozsef,painters like Csontvary and huge
musicians like Bartok, Kodaly, Szigeti,Szekely Mihaly and many-many
others lived and created in this period). This society was based on
two elements: the gentries, most of whome once belonged to the
nobility and were or wished to be land-owners and the other group:
the bourgeoisie.To the latter belonged the large factory owners,
the merchants and the intellectuals, like journalists, artists
and educated professionals.

The hungarian society rested on these two pillars. The
majority of the bourgeoisie was Jewish. Just as an example, more,
than 25% of the capital Budapest was Jewish - more,than 250.000
only in the city.

Horthy himself was rather deeply involved in and connected to
both groups.One of his sons, for example, had a Jewish wife.
Under the antisemitic pressure, the government accepted anti-
Jewish laws already in the 20-th years, which became harder after
the second world war broke out.The grown up Jewish male population
was taken to forced labour camps already in 1940. There they were
treated harshly,but the authorities refused to transfer them to
Germany or to other death camps in Easter Europe. Hence the great
majority of the Jews were still free and alive till March 1944
when the Germans occupied Hungary - in spite of beeing allies.
I tend to beleive, that the Hungarian government and Horthy did not
want to take part in the genocide of the Jews, though many
Hungarians did and gave hand to the murder of some 400.000 of us.

You can find a more autentic, detailed and comprehensive description on the subject,for instance in the book of Raphael Patai; "The Jews in
Hungary". Still,you can perhaps also feel the emotions of a survivor.

The best regards,
David

E-mail: maja@netvision.net.il
Date: 8/30/98
Time: 20:10:16

Miryam and David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel
-------------------------------------
[Mod.-now comes Gabor Hirsch to add to or clarify what David Gordon writes]

The picture you draw about the time of the Horthy regime is not quite complete: The population of Budapest is according Randolph L. Braham (and other sources) in 1941 184,453. There was some antisemitism already in the 30s under minister/president Daranyi and Imredy the first antijewish law was created. Followed in short succesion by the second (anti-Jewish law) Dec. 1938 by Mr. Teleki/& Tasnadi Nagy, the 3rd antijewish law under Mr. Bardossy Aug. 1941.
In the murder in Kamanec- Podolsk of several thousend expelled (18,000) Jews, Hungary was at least partly to blame as well for the attrocities against the Jews in Ujvidek (today Novi Sad). Edmund Weesenmayer stated during the trial against Ferenczy Laszlo: (about the collection and deportation of Hungarian Jewry starting in the Spring of 1944) To
fufill such a big task in a three month period, was only possible with the
enthusiastic help of the Hungarian authorities. If I am correct the German
occupation was an response to Horthy's attempt to enter a separate treaty with the Allies. I would recommend for everybody who is interested in the fate of the Hungarian Jewry in the 1940s to also read Randolph L. Braham book: The Politics of the Genocide. The Holocaust in Hungary I-II (Columbia
University Press 1981) or its Hungarian translation (1988): A Magyar Holocaust. It gives detailed and researched information about the Shoa, as well as specific, county and town information about the Hungarian involvement in the deportation to the camps
Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: First name Marfia #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

Are you sure that the "i" belongs there? If not, "Marfa" is how
"Martha" would come out for a Russian, whose language does not
have the THeta sound.

 Can anyone tell me what this might translate to?

 Yddish , Hebrew, English, Russian
 Is it Mary?

Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

(Remove "takeout" >from domain; change "sheol" to "stan". Sorry)
NEACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ISMACH, ROKITA: Lomza Gubernia,
Poland
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Romania


Searching: PYTLAK (Kinishin) #general

RAVGIW@...
 

I am trying to trace my mother's family in Poland. Many were lost in the Shoah
but there may be relatives who migrated to different countries. One came to
New York and was in touch with cousins for a while. The family name is PYTLAK
(or PYTLACK). The family came >from Kinishin which is a shtetl outside of
Bialystok. My mother's family name was changed to FINE and FEINSTEIN at Ellis
Island but up to 1939, there were still PYTLAKs in Kinishin.
Personal answers at RAVGIW@aol.com would be appreciated.
Rabbi Gerald I. Wolpe


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: PYTLAK (Kinishin) #general

RAVGIW@...
 

I am trying to trace my mother's family in Poland. Many were lost in the Shoah
but there may be relatives who migrated to different countries. One came to
New York and was in touch with cousins for a while. The family name is PYTLAK
(or PYTLACK). The family came >from Kinishin which is a shtetl outside of
Bialystok. My mother's family name was changed to FINE and FEINSTEIN at Ellis
Island but up to 1939, there were still PYTLAKs in Kinishin.
Personal answers at RAVGIW@aol.com would be appreciated.
Rabbi Gerald I. Wolpe


Toroszentmarton #hungary

IsraelP <p2o5rock@...>
 

Does anyone know where Toroszentmarton is and if there
are any schools there that might have records of a
"professor" in the late 1800's or early 1900's?

Israel Pickholtz
p2o5rock@netvision.net.il


Hungary SIG #Hungary Toroszentmarton #hungary

IsraelP <p2o5rock@...>
 

Does anyone know where Toroszentmarton is and if there
are any schools there that might have records of a
"professor" in the late 1800's or early 1900's?

Israel Pickholtz
p2o5rock@netvision.net.il


The Poliakoff Dynasty #belarus

Bryan Polikoff <polikoff@...>
 

The Poliakoffs are first recorded in Mogilev around the mid eighteenth
century (I believe, but you may know different) when they boasted a Rabbi
in the town. A family of holy men and sages, they produced some remarkable
scions. Several of the more ambitious among them moved away >from their
religious roots, headed for Vitebsk, Marioupl, Petersburg , and later
Moscow entering the commercial and technical sectors as engineers, railway
builders, wine merchants, bankers. Probably the most famous was Samuel
who, with Leon Bakst, founded the ORT organisation at the beginning of the
1880s to provide technical training for Jewish boys >from poor backgrounds.

I visited Mogilev a few years ago wondering if there were still any traces
left of my ancestors. A vain hope you would have thought in the light of
modern history, yet here is my surprising story. My hosts were Rosa, the
head teacher of the Jewish Sunday school and her family. Her father is an
old man who has no language but Russian. His charming granddaughter,
however, speaks excellent English and through her the old man told me this
story as soon as he heard my name. Around June of 1942 Hitler's troops
arrived in Minsk (please correct my dates if you know they are wrong).
The Jewish grapevine managed to warn the people of Mogilev that the Nazis
would hit the town around August. An arrangement was quickly cobbled
together whereby several hundred of the leading entrepreneurial Jewish
families and their workpeople would be provided safe transport to Siberia
where they would be able to reinstate their business interests until
(optimistically) the war was over. Of course, as we know, the Nazis duly
arrived and decimated the remaining Jewish community (30-50,000 souls).
A further few thousand that attempted to flee were eventually rounded up
and annihilated. However, one of the families that were lucky enough to
make it to Siberia and return to Mogilev around 1947 was that of one
Grigorie Poliakoff (a son of my great grandfather's brother who was
wellknown to Rosa's father ).

At Chanukkah 1993 a respected schoolteacher in the town (now an industrial
centre specialising in agricultural engineering) helped to prepare
decorations for a party for the children of the recently reestablished
Jewish community (numbering then around 7000). Her name is Palina
Poliakova - granddaughter of Grigorie. The Poliakoff dynasty of Mogilev
has thus managed to survive pogroms, Nazism, Stalinism and more recently,
nuclear and industrial pollution not to mention the economic difficulties
of our time. We are still hanging in there!

Bryan Polikoff
UK


Belarus SIG #Belarus The Poliakoff Dynasty #belarus

Bryan Polikoff <polikoff@...>
 

The Poliakoffs are first recorded in Mogilev around the mid eighteenth
century (I believe, but you may know different) when they boasted a Rabbi
in the town. A family of holy men and sages, they produced some remarkable
scions. Several of the more ambitious among them moved away >from their
religious roots, headed for Vitebsk, Marioupl, Petersburg , and later
Moscow entering the commercial and technical sectors as engineers, railway
builders, wine merchants, bankers. Probably the most famous was Samuel
who, with Leon Bakst, founded the ORT organisation at the beginning of the
1880s to provide technical training for Jewish boys >from poor backgrounds.

I visited Mogilev a few years ago wondering if there were still any traces
left of my ancestors. A vain hope you would have thought in the light of
modern history, yet here is my surprising story. My hosts were Rosa, the
head teacher of the Jewish Sunday school and her family. Her father is an
old man who has no language but Russian. His charming granddaughter,
however, speaks excellent English and through her the old man told me this
story as soon as he heard my name. Around June of 1942 Hitler's troops
arrived in Minsk (please correct my dates if you know they are wrong).
The Jewish grapevine managed to warn the people of Mogilev that the Nazis
would hit the town around August. An arrangement was quickly cobbled
together whereby several hundred of the leading entrepreneurial Jewish
families and their workpeople would be provided safe transport to Siberia
where they would be able to reinstate their business interests until
(optimistically) the war was over. Of course, as we know, the Nazis duly
arrived and decimated the remaining Jewish community (30-50,000 souls).
A further few thousand that attempted to flee were eventually rounded up
and annihilated. However, one of the families that were lucky enough to
make it to Siberia and return to Mogilev around 1947 was that of one
Grigorie Poliakoff (a son of my great grandfather's brother who was
wellknown to Rosa's father ).

At Chanukkah 1993 a respected schoolteacher in the town (now an industrial
centre specialising in agricultural engineering) helped to prepare
decorations for a party for the children of the recently reestablished
Jewish community (numbering then around 7000). Her name is Palina
Poliakova - granddaughter of Grigorie. The Poliakoff dynasty of Mogilev
has thus managed to survive pogroms, Nazism, Stalinism and more recently,
nuclear and industrial pollution not to mention the economic difficulties
of our time. We are still hanging in there!

Bryan Polikoff
UK


Re: LA Cemeteries #general

Paul C Newfield <pcn01@...>
 

L.A. is not LA.

LA is not L.A.

Paul


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: LA Cemeteries #general

Paul C Newfield <pcn01@...>
 

L.A. is not LA.

LA is not L.A.

Paul


Searching: KATZ Family from Oslo #general

Howard Coupland <bashko@...>
 

I am trying to locate the family of my Great Uncle Jacob KATZ whom we know
settled in Norway and was the son of Shmuel KATZ of
Siauliau (Shavel),Lithuania.
Recently I came across a photo of him with his family >from Oslo dated
1920.

Jacque Coupland (Mrs)
Leeds, UK

CAPLAN / PLOTKIN (Vilna,Lithuania) , PRENSKY(Kovno,Lithuania)
GRYNWALD / FINKIELSZTEJN / RUDOMINSKI (Marijampole,Lithuania)
KLEPPER (Romania) , SMOLENSKI (Eastern Europe)
SHER / KATZ (Siauliau (Shavel),Lithuania) & Oslo,Norway
ABRAMSON / LIPMAN (Jeppe,Johannesburg,South Africa)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: KATZ Family from Oslo #general

Howard Coupland <bashko@...>
 

I am trying to locate the family of my Great Uncle Jacob KATZ whom we know
settled in Norway and was the son of Shmuel KATZ of
Siauliau (Shavel),Lithuania.
Recently I came across a photo of him with his family >from Oslo dated
1920.

Jacque Coupland (Mrs)
Leeds, UK

CAPLAN / PLOTKIN (Vilna,Lithuania) , PRENSKY(Kovno,Lithuania)
GRYNWALD / FINKIELSZTEJN / RUDOMINSKI (Marijampole,Lithuania)
KLEPPER (Romania) , SMOLENSKI (Eastern Europe)
SHER / KATZ (Siauliau (Shavel),Lithuania) & Oslo,Norway
ABRAMSON / LIPMAN (Jeppe,Johannesburg,South Africa)


Researching families in Slustk, Belarus #general

David and Toby Curwin <curwin@...>
 

I am looking for information on any of the following families from
Slustk, Belarus:

ZIDES/ ZEIDES/ ZAIDES, ONGEIBERG, REINGOLD, LEBOVICH,
NIZOVSKY

David Curwin
Kvutzat Yavne, Israel

In Lithuania: SUZMAN (Balbieriskis), ROGOFF (Raguva/Vilkomir/Anyksciai),
BERMAN (Anyksciai), TATELMAN/ MIRVIS (Seduva), FRAKT/ CRONIK (Jonava),
GARBER (Krekenava), BUROFSKY/ BOROWSKI (Salantai), PAGLIN (?)
In Belarus: ZIDES/ ONGEIBERG (Slutsk)
In Poland: YASKOLKA (Ciechanowiec/Grodno), MALOWER (Lomza)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Researching families in Slustk, Belarus #general

David and Toby Curwin <curwin@...>
 

I am looking for information on any of the following families from
Slustk, Belarus:

ZIDES/ ZEIDES/ ZAIDES, ONGEIBERG, REINGOLD, LEBOVICH,
NIZOVSKY

David Curwin
Kvutzat Yavne, Israel

In Lithuania: SUZMAN (Balbieriskis), ROGOFF (Raguva/Vilkomir/Anyksciai),
BERMAN (Anyksciai), TATELMAN/ MIRVIS (Seduva), FRAKT/ CRONIK (Jonava),
GARBER (Krekenava), BUROFSKY/ BOROWSKI (Salantai), PAGLIN (?)
In Belarus: ZIDES/ ONGEIBERG (Slutsk)
In Poland: YASKOLKA (Ciechanowiec/Grodno), MALOWER (Lomza)