Date   

Re: Confusion about Vilkomir Revision List Periods #lithuania

DBH12345
 

<<
Without arguing the SIGs decision to focus on the 1858 list (which
I gather was actually closed in 1876); (1) what are the
corresponding information dates included in the later Revision
lists?, (2) What is the fee for individual requests to the archives
for searches of these later less complete lists? and (3)Is data so
sparse in the later lists as to make success unlikely?

Forgive me if everyone else already understands this.

Mort Cohen, Rochester NY USA
(cohen@...)
>>

Dear Mort,

Sorry if I've confused you. The 1858 Revision List for Vilkomir includes a
few additional Revision Lists that were done throughout the year (so it is
more of an 1858 - 1859 List). It covers a more lengthy period in two ways:

a) references are included about various things that had happened since the
last Revision in 1850 (died, conscripted, moved, people missing with dates
when these things happened) - so this means it covers the 1851 - 1858/59
period and

b) after 1858 clerks made notations about some people (not about everyone) on
the same List for a number of years. I made these observations based on
preliminary examination of the Vilkomir Revision Lists - until they are
translated I would hesitate to guess how extensive these additional notes are.

The kind of thing that we've noticed in a couple of hours' examination
includes notations about rulings by the guberniya court, death, conscription,
change in membership in a guild, change in tax status, expulsion >from the
community, for a number of years after 1858. So altogether the single
Revision List covers a period of time rather than information about events in
a single year.

The Additional Revision Lists usually reported brides added to households, and
newborn children.

For information on the fees for individual searches and other relevant
information please consult the LitvakSIG FAQ's at our homepage:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/litvak/>

As to data for later years being too sparse to warrant investigation - I
really don't know. But it doesn't matter. If you place an individual order,
the archivists will search ALL of the available revision lists and report to
you.

Keep in mind that the importance of the uyezd-wide Revision Lists is mostly
that they will offer information on a broad scope - All of the Jewish
households in Vilkomir uyezd-so you may find relatives in different households
that you might not otherwise know about. We are trying to acquire Revision
Lists for all fourteen of the districts. We know that it is unlikely that they
will all still be intact for the same years and we'll have to supplement these
lists with other Jewish Community records such as box tax payers and candle
tax payers lists. We know that many of our ancestors successfully avoided
being Listed (to protect their sons). But when we have finished, we will have
what will be the equivalent of a mid-19th Century census.

Supporting these projects will not complete the research you will probably
want to do. Most of us will still want to ask for individual searches which
will be more focused. You'll have enough information to order vital records
(birth, marriage, death certificates), specific Jewish community list
information, and so on.

Thanks to those of you who have offered additional support. We are getting
close to having enough funds to complete the translation of the Vilkomir
records.

David Hoffman
Co-Coordinator, LitvakSIG


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Confusion about Vilkomir Revision List Periods #lithuania

DBH12345
 

<<
Without arguing the SIGs decision to focus on the 1858 list (which
I gather was actually closed in 1876); (1) what are the
corresponding information dates included in the later Revision
lists?, (2) What is the fee for individual requests to the archives
for searches of these later less complete lists? and (3)Is data so
sparse in the later lists as to make success unlikely?

Forgive me if everyone else already understands this.

Mort Cohen, Rochester NY USA
(cohen@...)
>>

Dear Mort,

Sorry if I've confused you. The 1858 Revision List for Vilkomir includes a
few additional Revision Lists that were done throughout the year (so it is
more of an 1858 - 1859 List). It covers a more lengthy period in two ways:

a) references are included about various things that had happened since the
last Revision in 1850 (died, conscripted, moved, people missing with dates
when these things happened) - so this means it covers the 1851 - 1858/59
period and

b) after 1858 clerks made notations about some people (not about everyone) on
the same List for a number of years. I made these observations based on
preliminary examination of the Vilkomir Revision Lists - until they are
translated I would hesitate to guess how extensive these additional notes are.

The kind of thing that we've noticed in a couple of hours' examination
includes notations about rulings by the guberniya court, death, conscription,
change in membership in a guild, change in tax status, expulsion >from the
community, for a number of years after 1858. So altogether the single
Revision List covers a period of time rather than information about events in
a single year.

The Additional Revision Lists usually reported brides added to households, and
newborn children.

For information on the fees for individual searches and other relevant
information please consult the LitvakSIG FAQ's at our homepage:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/litvak/>

As to data for later years being too sparse to warrant investigation - I
really don't know. But it doesn't matter. If you place an individual order,
the archivists will search ALL of the available revision lists and report to
you.

Keep in mind that the importance of the uyezd-wide Revision Lists is mostly
that they will offer information on a broad scope - All of the Jewish
households in Vilkomir uyezd-so you may find relatives in different households
that you might not otherwise know about. We are trying to acquire Revision
Lists for all fourteen of the districts. We know that it is unlikely that they
will all still be intact for the same years and we'll have to supplement these
lists with other Jewish Community records such as box tax payers and candle
tax payers lists. We know that many of our ancestors successfully avoided
being Listed (to protect their sons). But when we have finished, we will have
what will be the equivalent of a mid-19th Century census.

Supporting these projects will not complete the research you will probably
want to do. Most of us will still want to ask for individual searches which
will be more focused. You'll have enough information to order vital records
(birth, marriage, death certificates), specific Jewish community list
information, and so on.

Thanks to those of you who have offered additional support. We are getting
close to having enough funds to complete the translation of the Vilkomir
records.

David Hoffman
Co-Coordinator, LitvakSIG


Re: Non-English Given Names #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:09:41, rickiz@... (Ricki L. Zunk)
'llowed:

 I have now acquired many photos of various family tombstones for my
 mother's family buried in Phila., PA. I cannot read or write Hebrew
 (for which I now am very sorry). I asked a rabbi/family friend to help
 me translate the names. Some of them are, to my experience, unusual.
 I'm hoping that some of you more knowledgeable JGers can help me with
 them

 mgm (Anna Helen) = Osnia (or Osnea) Enya
 mgf (Samuel [Simon]) = Yeshayoh
 pgf (Samuel) = Osias and Sheyah
 pgu (Samuel) = Sendor
 pcousin (Lippa) = Lipa

 All of these are as written and spelled by the rabbi. Sorry I can't
 give you any additional info.

It isn't clear what you want to know.

In the same order as you have written above:

Probably Osnat (a Biblical/Egyptian name)
Isaiah
Hosea and Isaiah
Alexander
A Yiddish name; can't help you

But the Rabbi surely knows all that, and Lipa as well.


-------------
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

(Remove "takeout" >from domain; change "sheol" to "stan". Sorry

Researching:
from Lomza Gubernia in Russian Poland: Nowicki, Najmark.
from Dorohoi District in Romania: Hertanu, Abramovici, Lauer.
from Iasi in Romania: Grisaru, Vataru.
See my INTERACTIVE family tree (you need a
Java 1.1.x-enabled browser) at http://www.actcom.co.il


FTJP #general

M Frenkel <mfrenkel@...>
 

My name does not appear on the Family Tree of the Jewish People although
I have submitted (uploaded) a GEDCOM file to you. My only conclusion is
that I did something incorrectly.
Is my tree to be uploaded as one single entity including all 2,476
individuals or by separate branches? Is there a specific individual with
whom I should start? ( The tree represents all the direct and ancillary
relations of our two granddaughters.)
Obviously, your helpful input is necessary and will be greatly
appreciated.
Sincerely,
Marshall S. Frenkel
Maitland, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Non-English Given Names #general

Stan Goodman <sheol@...>
 

On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 01:09:41, rickiz@... (Ricki L. Zunk)
'llowed:

 I have now acquired many photos of various family tombstones for my
 mother's family buried in Phila., PA. I cannot read or write Hebrew
 (for which I now am very sorry). I asked a rabbi/family friend to help
 me translate the names. Some of them are, to my experience, unusual.
 I'm hoping that some of you more knowledgeable JGers can help me with
 them

 mgm (Anna Helen) = Osnia (or Osnea) Enya
 mgf (Samuel [Simon]) = Yeshayoh
 pgf (Samuel) = Osias and Sheyah
 pgu (Samuel) = Sendor
 pcousin (Lippa) = Lipa

 All of these are as written and spelled by the rabbi. Sorry I can't
 give you any additional info.

It isn't clear what you want to know.

In the same order as you have written above:

Probably Osnat (a Biblical/Egyptian name)
Isaiah
Hosea and Isaiah
Alexander
A Yiddish name; can't help you

But the Rabbi surely knows all that, and Lipa as well.


-------------
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

(Remove "takeout" >from domain; change "sheol" to "stan". Sorry

Researching:
from Lomza Gubernia in Russian Poland: Nowicki, Najmark.
from Dorohoi District in Romania: Hertanu, Abramovici, Lauer.
from Iasi in Romania: Grisaru, Vataru.
See my INTERACTIVE family tree (you need a
Java 1.1.x-enabled browser) at http://www.actcom.co.il


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen FTJP #general

M Frenkel <mfrenkel@...>
 

My name does not appear on the Family Tree of the Jewish People although
I have submitted (uploaded) a GEDCOM file to you. My only conclusion is
that I did something incorrectly.
Is my tree to be uploaded as one single entity including all 2,476
individuals or by separate branches? Is there a specific individual with
whom I should start? ( The tree represents all the direct and ancillary
relations of our two granddaughters.)
Obviously, your helpful input is necessary and will be greatly
appreciated.
Sincerely,
Marshall S. Frenkel
Maitland, FL


Searching: KNOE(O)PFLER, FARKAS, WIGNER, HAJDU #general

Peter Knoepfler <tamas@...>
 

Looking for Knoepfler ( or Knopfler) originally >from Abony Hungary
Farkas, Wigner and Hajdu ( nee Hirschler) >from around Budapest.
Any information would be appreciated - please email me at
tamas@u.washington.edu
Thank you
Peter T Knoepfler


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: KNOE(O)PFLER, FARKAS, WIGNER, HAJDU #general

Peter Knoepfler <tamas@...>
 

Looking for Knoepfler ( or Knopfler) originally >from Abony Hungary
Farkas, Wigner and Hajdu ( nee Hirschler) >from around Budapest.
Any information would be appreciated - please email me at
tamas@u.washington.edu
Thank you
Peter T Knoepfler


San Francisco Orphanages - 1880's #general

PFutoran@...
 

I have a great uncle who was born in Austria in 1876. He came to this country
about 1887.. Family stories state that he was in an orphanage in San Francisco
in the mid 1880's - supposedly with a brother and sister. His obituary states
that he went to elementary school and a "Hebrew" High School - no mention of
the orphange. I am trying to determine if there are any records of orphanges
and or Jewish High School in SF in the 1880's (probably about 1886) How did he
get to SF etc. etc. Most records seem to have been lost in the 1906
earthquake/fire. I have been unable to locate anyone with his parents names
in the City Directories for the years in question.

Researching: FUTORANSKY.. kiev
BUNCHAK: Tarasha-Ukraine
ZAVATOVSKY: Ukraine
BENDERSKY: Urkraine
RIZNAVSKI/RESEFSKY: Korostyshev, Ukraine
SILVERSTEIN: Austria


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen San Francisco Orphanages - 1880's #general

PFutoran@...
 

I have a great uncle who was born in Austria in 1876. He came to this country
about 1887.. Family stories state that he was in an orphanage in San Francisco
in the mid 1880's - supposedly with a brother and sister. His obituary states
that he went to elementary school and a "Hebrew" High School - no mention of
the orphange. I am trying to determine if there are any records of orphanges
and or Jewish High School in SF in the 1880's (probably about 1886) How did he
get to SF etc. etc. Most records seem to have been lost in the 1906
earthquake/fire. I have been unable to locate anyone with his parents names
in the City Directories for the years in question.

Researching: FUTORANSKY.. kiev
BUNCHAK: Tarasha-Ukraine
ZAVATOVSKY: Ukraine
BENDERSKY: Urkraine
RIZNAVSKI/RESEFSKY: Korostyshev, Ukraine
SILVERSTEIN: Austria


Dzikow and Tarnobrzeg #general

David Gordon <dgordon@...>
 

Hello,
Elsa Drezner asked about a book "Memories of my shtetl." Although I
do not know the book, I think I may be able to help with the names. It
is possibly in Polish (or Yiddish); the two towns she mentions are
Dzikow (with an accent on the "o" and so pronounced DZHEE-kov) and
Tarnobrzeg (Tar-NOH-brzheg). Dzikow is not the same as Tarnobrzeg but
is, instread located just a bit to the north (1 or 2km). Both are
located in southeast Poland, about 75 miles northeast of Krakow.
Hope this helps. Good luck.

David Gordon
Chicago, Illinois
Searching: HORWITZ Smolevichi, Lapichi, Bobruisk?
GORDON Vilnius
GEBALOVITCH, BENENSON Borisov
LEVIN Kovno
DRAZIN Bobruisk


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Dzikow and Tarnobrzeg #general

David Gordon <dgordon@...>
 

Hello,
Elsa Drezner asked about a book "Memories of my shtetl." Although I
do not know the book, I think I may be able to help with the names. It
is possibly in Polish (or Yiddish); the two towns she mentions are
Dzikow (with an accent on the "o" and so pronounced DZHEE-kov) and
Tarnobrzeg (Tar-NOH-brzheg). Dzikow is not the same as Tarnobrzeg but
is, instread located just a bit to the north (1 or 2km). Both are
located in southeast Poland, about 75 miles northeast of Krakow.
Hope this helps. Good luck.

David Gordon
Chicago, Illinois
Searching: HORWITZ Smolevichi, Lapichi, Bobruisk?
GORDON Vilnius
GEBALOVITCH, BENENSON Borisov
LEVIN Kovno
DRAZIN Bobruisk


Re: Lotteries in Russian Empire? #general

Rechtman <rechtman@...>
 

My question is: Were there any sort of regular lotteries in Russian
society, and (if so) what were they likely to offer in terms of winnings?
I would love to separate out tall tales >from family history here.
Yes. My family has similiar stories. Our story ends a bit different: the
lottory won right around 1917, and soon afterwards the money, now discarded by
the new "Boulshovik" coup, was worthlesss :-(

-Yigal Rechtman
www.rechtman.com

+ Yigal Rechtman email: RECHTMAN@... +
+ http://users.aol.com/rechtman/index.html
+ Genalogical Research: RECHTMAN, Suwalk; Augustow; +
+ WYBRANCZYK, Lomza;FOGGLEMAN, Riga; MILLER, +
+ Mazstrow-Maz.; MARCUS, Kwarsk +


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Lotteries in Russian Empire? #general

Rechtman <rechtman@...>
 

My question is: Were there any sort of regular lotteries in Russian
society, and (if so) what were they likely to offer in terms of winnings?
I would love to separate out tall tales >from family history here.
Yes. My family has similiar stories. Our story ends a bit different: the
lottory won right around 1917, and soon afterwards the money, now discarded by
the new "Boulshovik" coup, was worthlesss :-(

-Yigal Rechtman
www.rechtman.com

+ Yigal Rechtman email: RECHTMAN@... +
+ http://users.aol.com/rechtman/index.html
+ Genalogical Research: RECHTMAN, Suwalk; Augustow; +
+ WYBRANCZYK, Lomza;FOGGLEMAN, Riga; MILLER, +
+ Mazstrow-Maz.; MARCUS, Kwarsk +


Litvaks, Pollacks, Galicianers and whatever #general

haim harutz <yairharu@...>
 

Hi Jewishgenners,
Issy Fine >from Canada, with his interesting posting on Belarus/Ukraine has
gone and triggered me off again. I feel that I must throw in my
halfpenny's worth about Eastern-Eurropean Jewry. To anyone who may be bored
by my ravings, I beg your forgiveness in advance.

The Jews in Eastern Europe have, apparently, been there for hundreds of
years, and some communities trace their histories back for a thousand
years or more. The origins vary, but it appears that, for the most part,
the basis of the Jewish communities in Eastern Europe comes >from Jews who
settled the Rhineland region of Western Germany/Eastern France during the
period of the Roman Empire and, for various reasons, gradually spread
eastwards and northwards into Central and Eastern Europe.

Because of the generally disorganized and unstable nature of European
Society >from the fall of the Roman Empire until recent times, Jewish
community life has not always been too stable either, and one could find,
in parts of eastern Europe, other influences as well (remnants of the
Spanish exile, Jews >from Khazaria, Karaites, and others) who may have, in
one way or another, influenced local communities.
This would on, the one hand, explain the prevalence of Yiddish ( a dialect
of medieval or old German, or what is sometimes called Plat-Deutch - Flat
German), in many ways similar to some German dialects spoken today in
South-West Germany/Switzerland, with a further Hebrew and possibly Slavic
influence, among Eastern European Jews, while, on the other hand, it
might explain dialectical variations within the Yiddish of various regions.

[By the way, I have a very funny anecdote to tell about this. My late
mother, though born in South Africa, spoke a very fluent Litvak-Yiddish,
as well as English and South African-Dutch. Her younger sister, who spoke
Yiddish, but not so fluently, married a Jew >from Switzerland, and went to
live in Zurich in the 1960's. On one visit to her sister, my mother once
got into a conversation with a neighbour who speaks only German (the
local version). My mother, who knows no German, spoke in Litvak-Yiddish,
and managed to get by reasonably well. A few days later, my aunt told my
mother that the neighbour had commented very flatterngly about her, and
that she had been very impressed that "A visitor >from Africa could speak
such marvelous Schwitzerdeutsch. In fact, she speaks it much better than
you do, and you've been living here for years!"]

To cut a long story short, Eastern/Central European Jewry could be roughly
subdivided into three or four groups: i.e. those who where under German
influence, those who were under Russian influence, those who were
Austro-Hungarian influence and, maybe, those who retained some
independence, (at least for some of the time), >from all these influences.
One must remember that the whole area with large Jewish populations (at
least, so it was before the Nazi era), spreading roughly >from the Baltic
to the Black Sea, and >from the Ukraine/Russia border to Western Germany,
has been bouncing backwards and forwards, through a series of wars and
other major upheavals, between various empires for five hundred years or
more. Given the almost anarchic conditions prevailing for much of this
period in this part of Europe, it's amazing that Jews survived at all,
never mind flourish.

All the best,
Chaim Charutz.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Litvaks, Pollacks, Galicianers and whatever #general

haim harutz <yairharu@...>
 

Hi Jewishgenners,
Issy Fine >from Canada, with his interesting posting on Belarus/Ukraine has
gone and triggered me off again. I feel that I must throw in my
halfpenny's worth about Eastern-Eurropean Jewry. To anyone who may be bored
by my ravings, I beg your forgiveness in advance.

The Jews in Eastern Europe have, apparently, been there for hundreds of
years, and some communities trace their histories back for a thousand
years or more. The origins vary, but it appears that, for the most part,
the basis of the Jewish communities in Eastern Europe comes >from Jews who
settled the Rhineland region of Western Germany/Eastern France during the
period of the Roman Empire and, for various reasons, gradually spread
eastwards and northwards into Central and Eastern Europe.

Because of the generally disorganized and unstable nature of European
Society >from the fall of the Roman Empire until recent times, Jewish
community life has not always been too stable either, and one could find,
in parts of eastern Europe, other influences as well (remnants of the
Spanish exile, Jews >from Khazaria, Karaites, and others) who may have, in
one way or another, influenced local communities.
This would on, the one hand, explain the prevalence of Yiddish ( a dialect
of medieval or old German, or what is sometimes called Plat-Deutch - Flat
German), in many ways similar to some German dialects spoken today in
South-West Germany/Switzerland, with a further Hebrew and possibly Slavic
influence, among Eastern European Jews, while, on the other hand, it
might explain dialectical variations within the Yiddish of various regions.

[By the way, I have a very funny anecdote to tell about this. My late
mother, though born in South Africa, spoke a very fluent Litvak-Yiddish,
as well as English and South African-Dutch. Her younger sister, who spoke
Yiddish, but not so fluently, married a Jew >from Switzerland, and went to
live in Zurich in the 1960's. On one visit to her sister, my mother once
got into a conversation with a neighbour who speaks only German (the
local version). My mother, who knows no German, spoke in Litvak-Yiddish,
and managed to get by reasonably well. A few days later, my aunt told my
mother that the neighbour had commented very flatterngly about her, and
that she had been very impressed that "A visitor >from Africa could speak
such marvelous Schwitzerdeutsch. In fact, she speaks it much better than
you do, and you've been living here for years!"]

To cut a long story short, Eastern/Central European Jewry could be roughly
subdivided into three or four groups: i.e. those who where under German
influence, those who were under Russian influence, those who were
Austro-Hungarian influence and, maybe, those who retained some
independence, (at least for some of the time), >from all these influences.
One must remember that the whole area with large Jewish populations (at
least, so it was before the Nazi era), spreading roughly >from the Baltic
to the Black Sea, and >from the Ukraine/Russia border to Western Germany,
has been bouncing backwards and forwards, through a series of wars and
other major upheavals, between various empires for five hundred years or
more. Given the almost anarchic conditions prevailing for much of this
period in this part of Europe, it's amazing that Jews survived at all,
never mind flourish.

All the best,
Chaim Charutz.


Searching: ELBET(ALBERT), Argentina & GOLDBERG (kibbutz Yagur) #general

sam herstein <sam1925@...>
 

I am trying to locate relatives in Argentina and Israel.
The family in Argentina would be ELBET(ALBERT) >from LIbovne ,Russia.
The family in Israel would be >from kibbutz Yagur.The relative would be
from the
family of Zipporah Aloni Goldberg.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: ELBET(ALBERT), Argentina & GOLDBERG (kibbutz Yagur) #general

sam herstein <sam1925@...>
 

I am trying to locate relatives in Argentina and Israel.
The family in Argentina would be ELBET(ALBERT) >from LIbovne ,Russia.
The family in Israel would be >from kibbutz Yagur.The relative would be
from the
family of Zipporah Aloni Goldberg.


Surname #general

Jose Gutstein <jmg-miami@...>
 

I came across a most unusual Jewish surname of a person that married into my
family in Lomza Gubernia, Poland: ZWAWY and ZWAWA.

I'm pretty sure it's a distinct surname >from the much more common Szwab
(Schwab).

Does anyone know how the "Zw" would in ZWAWY would be pronounced in Polish?

Any suggestions on a possible "English" equivalent to look for in case the
family emigrated?

Thanks,

Jose Gutstein
JMG-Miami@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Surname #general

Jose Gutstein <jmg-miami@...>
 

I came across a most unusual Jewish surname of a person that married into my
family in Lomza Gubernia, Poland: ZWAWY and ZWAWA.

I'm pretty sure it's a distinct surname >from the much more common Szwab
(Schwab).

Does anyone know how the "Zw" would in ZWAWY would be pronounced in Polish?

Any suggestions on a possible "English" equivalent to look for in case the
family emigrated?

Thanks,

Jose Gutstein
JMG-Miami@...