Date   

Tremestroff? #general

Lee Gagnet Leumas <lgl001@...>
 

Does anyone know where Tremestroff (or possibly Hemestroff) is? In the
marriage of Elias LEAMUS to Fleurette JOSEPH (Hellimer, Moselle, France
civil records) of May 30, 1825, David LEAMUS is living in Tremestroff.
David married Rachel VORMS (WORMS) in Hellimer on September 5, 1821.
Elias and David were sons of Joseph SAMUEL and Sara DAVID.

Thanks for all your help,

Lee Leumas
Baton Rouge, Louisiana


Re: beadle #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-13 18:05:42 EDT, nick@n-landau.demon.co.uk writes:

<< Michael Bernet propounds that the shamass is an exalted >>


Exalted! I said that? Must have fallen on my head.

Michael Bernet, New York


Hirsch and Suessel in family patterns in So Germany #general

MBernet@...
 

I had an unexpected communication >from a French (Alsatian--non-Jewish) contact

<<Until the beginn of the 19th century, an analog tradition is related for
Jewish families in wich most of the boys were named Suesslein/Suessel,
or Hirsch, often both. >>

My earliest known ancestor (forgetting Adam and Eve<g>) was Suessel (ben)
Hirsch of Frensdorf, Bavaria (near Bamberg), born ca 1645. Suessel's children
all were known by their patronymic, Suesslein. Hirsch is assumed not to have
been born in Frensdorf but to have migrated there >from further west.

My follow-up enquiry brought me:

<<About the Hirsch and Suesslein families, I have very little details. I
hold my information >from my notes about my conversations many years ago
with my Jewish friend G. Rueff. He was very religious and has been until
his dead, my referent by questions belonging to the history of our
Jewish Alsacians. In the Hirsch and Suesslein context, he spoke from
Weissenburg,
Heilbronn and Frankfurt/Main, but not >from Bavaria (or I have it not
recorded and cannot remember...).>>

I have never heard of this Hirsch-Suessel connection. All three cities
mentioned by Rueff, were within the region in which my family dwelled, married
into, or moved to (Weissenburg actually is in Bavaria--not too far from
Nurnberg where I was born).

Does anyone have a Hirsch-Suessel pattern in his/her family? Is that really a
common pattern (I'd never heard of it)? Does anyone know more about G. Rueff
(he used to be a radio ham--that's about all I know), where he lived etc.?

Thanks for all advice or suggestions.

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester


SEGALL #general

PRES LOIS M FRIEDMAN <ZDJJ37A@...>
 

I am seeking information on the SEGALL family that immigrated to
France >from Romania around the
early 1900's. I do know that one grandchild was Jacques VODES a
furrier in the 1950's. I really could
use any and all help on this.

Lois Segall Friedman
zdjj37a@prodigy.com


Re: Genealogy of famous people #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-13 18:05:05 EDT, womoshe@internet-zahav.net writes:

<< The MAHARAM >from Padowa (R Meir Katsenelboigen) >>

I've always wondered where that Katz. . . name came from; it means Cat's
elbow in both German and Yiddish!

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
WOLF, Sali & Rachel, Rotterdam, murdered by Dr. Petiot, Paris ca 1942
WEIL[L], Albert, Fr. hon. consul in Nurnberg; returned to France 1936/7.


Neolog Jew #general

Dr. Edward Stern <estern@...>
 

I have been advised that a Hungarian relative, last name GROSSMAN, from
Ungvar, was a Neolog Jew. Likewise, I was advised that there was a
Neolog temple in Ungvar. What does the term Neolog Jew refer to?

Edward Stern
Grand Rapids, MI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Tremestroff? #general

Lee Gagnet Leumas <lgl001@...>
 

Does anyone know where Tremestroff (or possibly Hemestroff) is? In the
marriage of Elias LEAMUS to Fleurette JOSEPH (Hellimer, Moselle, France
civil records) of May 30, 1825, David LEAMUS is living in Tremestroff.
David married Rachel VORMS (WORMS) in Hellimer on September 5, 1821.
Elias and David were sons of Joseph SAMUEL and Sara DAVID.

Thanks for all your help,

Lee Leumas
Baton Rouge, Louisiana


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: beadle #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-13 18:05:42 EDT, nick@n-landau.demon.co.uk writes:

<< Michael Bernet propounds that the shamass is an exalted >>


Exalted! I said that? Must have fallen on my head.

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Hirsch and Suessel in family patterns in So Germany #general

MBernet@...
 

I had an unexpected communication >from a French (Alsatian--non-Jewish) contact

<<Until the beginn of the 19th century, an analog tradition is related for
Jewish families in wich most of the boys were named Suesslein/Suessel,
or Hirsch, often both. >>

My earliest known ancestor (forgetting Adam and Eve<g>) was Suessel (ben)
Hirsch of Frensdorf, Bavaria (near Bamberg), born ca 1645. Suessel's children
all were known by their patronymic, Suesslein. Hirsch is assumed not to have
been born in Frensdorf but to have migrated there >from further west.

My follow-up enquiry brought me:

<<About the Hirsch and Suesslein families, I have very little details. I
hold my information >from my notes about my conversations many years ago
with my Jewish friend G. Rueff. He was very religious and has been until
his dead, my referent by questions belonging to the history of our
Jewish Alsacians. In the Hirsch and Suesslein context, he spoke from
Weissenburg,
Heilbronn and Frankfurt/Main, but not >from Bavaria (or I have it not
recorded and cannot remember...).>>

I have never heard of this Hirsch-Suessel connection. All three cities
mentioned by Rueff, were within the region in which my family dwelled, married
into, or moved to (Weissenburg actually is in Bavaria--not too far from
Nurnberg where I was born).

Does anyone have a Hirsch-Suessel pattern in his/her family? Is that really a
common pattern (I'd never heard of it)? Does anyone know more about G. Rueff
(he used to be a radio ham--that's about all I know), where he lived etc.?

Thanks for all advice or suggestions.

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen SEGALL #general

PRES LOIS M FRIEDMAN <ZDJJ37A@...>
 

I am seeking information on the SEGALL family that immigrated to
France >from Romania around the
early 1900's. I do know that one grandchild was Jacques VODES a
furrier in the 1950's. I really could
use any and all help on this.

Lois Segall Friedman
zdjj37a@prodigy.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Genealogy of famous people #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-13 18:05:05 EDT, womoshe@internet-zahav.net writes:

<< The MAHARAM >from Padowa (R Meir Katsenelboigen) >>

I've always wondered where that Katz. . . name came from; it means Cat's
elbow in both German and Yiddish!

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
WOLF, Sali & Rachel, Rotterdam, murdered by Dr. Petiot, Paris ca 1942
WEIL[L], Albert, Fr. hon. consul in Nurnberg; returned to France 1936/7.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Neolog Jew #general

Dr. Edward Stern <estern@...>
 

I have been advised that a Hungarian relative, last name GROSSMAN, from
Ungvar, was a Neolog Jew. Likewise, I was advised that there was a
Neolog temple in Ungvar. What does the term Neolog Jew refer to?

Edward Stern
Grand Rapids, MI


Re: Drefus Family #general

Stewart Levy <srlevy@...>
 

I recently read a book about the l'affaire Dreyus (Drefus affair) and it has
a family tree. I will try to find the name and author.

Stewart Levy


Re: Brockton #general

Stewart Levy <srlevy@...>
 

I grew up not too far >from Brockton (canton) and today there is a
substantial Jewish community there. Brockton was an old shoe factory town
that has fallen upon hard times in recent years due to an influx of low
income families and the closing of the factories.

There are 3 synagogues in Brockton today. The numbers are listed below.

Agudas Achim - 508/583 0717
Beth Emunah 508/583 5810
Temple Israel 508/587 4130

I would suggest calling and searching the archives of the Jewish Advocate,
the dominant jewish paper in Boston.

Good Luck

S.Levy


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Drefus Family #general

Stewart Levy <srlevy@...>
 

I recently read a book about the l'affaire Dreyus (Drefus affair) and it has
a family tree. I will try to find the name and author.

Stewart Levy


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Brockton #general

Stewart Levy <srlevy@...>
 

I grew up not too far >from Brockton (canton) and today there is a
substantial Jewish community there. Brockton was an old shoe factory town
that has fallen upon hard times in recent years due to an influx of low
income families and the closing of the factories.

There are 3 synagogues in Brockton today. The numbers are listed below.

Agudas Achim - 508/583 0717
Beth Emunah 508/583 5810
Temple Israel 508/587 4130

I would suggest calling and searching the archives of the Jewish Advocate,
the dominant jewish paper in Boston.

Good Luck

S.Levy


Searching: SZCZECINIARZ, STOLIK #general

rita <rivke@...>
 

This is my first discussion group message so please be gentle with me.

I have listed these searches on Family Finder so I'm not sure about the
protocol of doing it here but it seems to be acceptable. So here goes.

I am searching for information/contacts etc regarding my family.
Principal names are my father's side: SZCZECINIARZ (Jankiel/Yankel) and
my mother's STOLIK(Shayndel/Szjandel). The families came >from LUBLIN,
KOCK, and SEROKOMLA and also FIRLEJ.

My parents escaped to Russia during the war, the remainder of the
families died most probably in Belzec except for a half brother of my
mother's who got to France. I met him (Icek STOLIK) in 1968 but have
lost contact with the family there even though I have searched the
French telephone directories. A nephew of my father's. Menashe
SZCZECINIARZ, made it to Israel and was found by my parents in 1975. He
has since died and I have lost contact with his family.

Our diminished family (my parents, my brother Chaim and myself) migrated
to Australia in 1950. My parents have died and typically, I am now
interested in my family history when there is noone left to ask!

In my research and contacts with JewishGen so far I have had no response
to my searches for the names or towns listed. Is there anyone out there
who might be of help?

Rita Nash
aka Rivke Szczeciniarz

from the Antopides/Down Under/Oz


Re: Grodno Yeshiva and Haftorah Reading #general

Paul Silverstone <paulh@...>
 

Jose Gutstein wrote:

Does anyone know when Grodno Yeshiva was shut ...
Grodno was in the Russian occupied part of Poland and was not occupied by the
Germans until after June 21, 1941. You do not state where his home town was -
in which partof Poland , the German western part or Russian eastern part. If
Sokolka was in the German occupied zone, he would have been unable to return and
presumably celebrated his bar-mitzvah in Grodno during the 20 months remaining
between the two invasions.
--
Paul Silverstone
New York

reply to: paulh@aya.yale.edu


Re: Reb is not Rav! #general

torrance@...
 

Richard Tasgal wrote:

Judith Romney Wegner <jrw@Brown.edu> writes:

[....]

If the deceased had been a rabbi, it would have said H-R-V (HaRav, lit.
"the Rabbi") followed by his name.
In my searching I have come across (albeit in a book rather than a grave
stone), for a rabbi, the abbreviation R"R, for "Rav Reb."

As an aside, the usage of Reb strikes me as being very similar to the
Polish Pan or Pani ...

Use of R' on tombstones tends to be restricted (a least in Orthodox
minchag here in New Zealand) to indicate someone who had high moral
stature in the community, and is directed to be written on the stone
by direction of the rabbi -- not by the family of the deceased.

Alan Torrance
Auckland
New Zealand


weekdays permissible for weddings #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Herbert Lazerow wrote:

I have been told that the
Talmud declares that virgins are married on Wednesday, widows on Thursday.
Either these injunctions were not strictly followed in Ukraine, or there is
some third category, because I have found weddings taking place on other days
of the week. Saturday night and Sunday seem to be the days of choice in the
U.S., regardless of previous marital status.
Actually, your informant was in error: he/she has misunderstood the
force of the relevant mishnaic rule. It was and is perfectly O.K. to get
married on other days of the week (except Friday and Shabbat).

Your informant mistranslated -- and therefore misunderstood -- the force of
the preposition "LE-" which can have many meanings. In this particular
case, the text of Mishnah Ketubbot 1:1 ("LE-yom ha-revi'i" and "LE-yom
ha-hamishi") does not mean ON Wednesday or ON Thursday respectively
(depending whether virgin or widow) but only BY the specified days. The
purpose of this rule (as discussed at p. 21 of my book Chattel or
Person? The Status of Women in the Mishnah, Oxford Univ Press 1992,
paperback) is that virgins must be married BY Wednesday of the particular
week (the week begins on Sunday) because this will still allow time for a
bridegroom aggrieved by the discovery that the bride was not a virgin to
rush around to the Thursday court session ( as the Mishnah itself points
out, the rabbinic court convened on Mondays and Thursdays) with his
complaint while the evidence -- or lack thereof! -- was still "fresh."
(If he was lying, her parents could bring the bloodstained sheets to refute
his claim, so that they would not have to return the bride-price of virgins
that had been paid to the bride's father!)

In the case of a widow, this was obviously not an issue (as the groom
was not entitled to expect a widow to be a virgin -- and in any case had
paid only the brideprice of widows, which was half that of virgins!).
Therefore, a widow could get married as late as Thursday -- but should be
married BY Thursday, because Friday and Shabbat were "out" due to
religious requirements of preparing for Shabbat and of Shabbat observance
itself.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Let's not go any farther down this road-while the days of
the week maybe genealogically relevant, it seems to this observer that
nothing more on this topic can be added that is. End of thread.