Date   

The Polish Inn #general

Paul Altesman <paltesman@...>
 

You might also want to see "Economic Origins of Antisemitism" by Hillel
Levine (Yale Univ. Press), Especially Chapt. 4 and a bit in the
Introduction. A bit abstract but still interesting.

Incidently, he cites estimates that 75% of the *rural* Jewish population
were principally in the alcohol trade, known as the Propinacja (small scale
production, transport, inns often all together). Usually when vital
records use the term "leaseholder" (arrender) this involves innkeeping and
the alcohol trade. It is a common (and often not necessarily flattering)
image of the rural Jew in Polish litterature and art.


Paul Altesman

Searching:
Zolondz/Zoladz in Maly Plock and Lomze
Kosslowicz in Lomze and Kolno
Karolicki in Warsaw and Grodno Gubernia
Ramler in Kolomaya and Chernovitsy


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The Polish Inn #general

Paul Altesman <paltesman@...>
 

You might also want to see "Economic Origins of Antisemitism" by Hillel
Levine (Yale Univ. Press), Especially Chapt. 4 and a bit in the
Introduction. A bit abstract but still interesting.

Incidently, he cites estimates that 75% of the *rural* Jewish population
were principally in the alcohol trade, known as the Propinacja (small scale
production, transport, inns often all together). Usually when vital
records use the term "leaseholder" (arrender) this involves innkeeping and
the alcohol trade. It is a common (and often not necessarily flattering)
image of the rural Jew in Polish litterature and art.


Paul Altesman

Searching:
Zolondz/Zoladz in Maly Plock and Lomze
Kosslowicz in Lomze and Kolno
Karolicki in Warsaw and Grodno Gubernia
Ramler in Kolomaya and Chernovitsy


Re: UK Certificates #unitedkingdom

Gailcopela@...
 

<<You should note that Jewish marriage certificates can only be issued by the
Synagogue holding the Marriage register>>

But what happens in the case where the synagogue no longer exists? Also, is
the reference to "Jewish marriage certificates" a reference to the recording
of the religious marriage as distinct >from the civil marriage? Wouldn't
everyone also have had to obtain a marriage certificate >from the civil
authorities? I'm about to send off my request to this UK body for my
grandparents' marriage certificate.

Gail Copeland
Thornhill (Toronto), ON Canada


Re: UK Certificates #unitedkingdom

Harold Pollins <pollins@...>
 

When a marriage is held in accordance with Jewish (or any other religious)
practice a copy of the certificate goes to the secular authorities. On
application to the appropriate office of the latter and on payment of the
appropriate fee anyone can get a copy.

Harold Pollins
Oxford England
----------
Michael Slifkin wrote:

You should note that Jewish marriage certificates can only be issued by
the Synagogue holding the Marriage register ...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Re: UK Certificates #general

Gailcopela@...
 

<<You should note that Jewish marriage certificates can only be issued by the
Synagogue holding the Marriage register>>

But what happens in the case where the synagogue no longer exists? Also, is
the reference to "Jewish marriage certificates" a reference to the recording
of the religious marriage as distinct >from the civil marriage? Wouldn't
everyone also have had to obtain a marriage certificate >from the civil
authorities? I'm about to send off my request to this UK body for my
grandparents' marriage certificate.

Gail Copeland
Thornhill (Toronto), ON Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: UK Certificates #general

Harold Pollins <pollins@...>
 

When a marriage is held in accordance with Jewish (or any other religious)
practice a copy of the certificate goes to the secular authorities. On
application to the appropriate office of the latter and on payment of the
appropriate fee anyone can get a copy.

Harold Pollins
Oxford England
----------
Michael Slifkin wrote:

You should note that Jewish marriage certificates can only be issued by
the Synagogue holding the Marriage register ...


the name Miriam #general

M. Kearns <mkearns@...>
 

does anyone know the Spanish/Sephardic translation of Miriam-is it the
same? are there deviations? Also what is the connection of the names
Miriam, Madeleine, and Magdalena. My great-grandmother had all of these
names, but we don't know which (if any) are her real names...

thanks,

Megan di Falco-Kearns


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen the name Miriam #general

M. Kearns <mkearns@...>
 

does anyone know the Spanish/Sephardic translation of Miriam-is it the
same? are there deviations? Also what is the connection of the names
Miriam, Madeleine, and Magdalena. My great-grandmother had all of these
names, but we don't know which (if any) are her real names...

thanks,

Megan di Falco-Kearns


Equivalents to names #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

From: Paul Silverstone <paulh@interport.net>
While I agree that in many cases there are no direct equivalents
from Hebrew or Yiddish names to English, perhaps people would be
interested to know of an INS publication "Foreign Versions of
English Names" (M-131, Rev.1962) which gives equivalent names in
many languages. Some Yiddish names are included.
While this book would certainly be of some practical use, the case of
Jewish names does differ >from the case of the generality of names in
western civilization (which would presumably constitute the majority of
the names in this book). Many names -- especially names coming >from the
Old and New Testaments (as Christianity calls them) -- do have true
equivalents in dozens of languages. Each language developed its own
version of each biblical name, usually because linguistic idiosyncrasies
demanded some modification in the spelling, the ending, etc. Therefore
Iakob (Gk), Jacobus (Lat.), Ya`qub (Arab.), Jakob (Ger), Jacques (Fr.),
Jacob (Eng.) and even a few variations containing the letter "m" -- such
as Giacomo (It.), Jaime (Sp.) and James (Eng.), are all genuine
equivalents of each other because they are all naturally evolved versions
of the same name, namely the biblical Hebrew name Ya'aqob (in which the "b"
is for technical reasons pronounced "v"). In such cases, >from an English
standpoint, one might argue that it is reasonable to describe Ya`aqob as a
"foreign" equivalent of Jacob -- even though, obviously, Ya'aqob is from
our own Jewish cultural heritage, and antedates "Jacob" by many centuries.

But when people arbitrarily choose an unrelated European name as a
"Soundex" for a child's Hebrew name, this is not a case of natural
evolution; it is simply an individual choice; and the chosen name is in
no way an equivalent of the Hebrew name. In other words, your choice of
Soundex is as good as my choice or some third person's choice. Thus,
tThree people may each have a son named to whom we have given the Hebrew
name Aharon ; but if you choose the secular name Albert, while I choose
Alfred, and the third parent chooses Alan, nobody's choice is more
"equivalent" or less "equivalent" than the other guy's -- because none of
those names is in fact equivalent to Aharon. The only equivalent would be
Aaron, which is the Greek Septuagint rendering of Aaron. The most we can
do is -- sometimes -- to notice what is the most frequently selected
soundalike for a given Hebrew name. Thus Levi usually becomes
Lewis/Louis; so this comes as close as one can get to an "equivalent" for
Levi; but even so, it is not a true equivalent, since the name Louis
actually derives >from the Latin name Ludovicus and has nothing whatsoever
to do with the biblical name Levi!

And if (as happens all too often nowadays), parents start by picking an
English/European name of their choice, which does NOT happen to have a
biblical origin, and only then look around for a Hebrew name that sounds
similar, this is in no sense a Hebrew equivalent for the English name; in
fact, some people might argue that >from a Jewish standpoint it is a
cultural travesty to START by naming a child George or Julia, and THEN pick
Joshua or Judith as the "Soundex" Hebrew name!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Equivalents to names #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

From: Paul Silverstone <paulh@interport.net>
While I agree that in many cases there are no direct equivalents
from Hebrew or Yiddish names to English, perhaps people would be
interested to know of an INS publication "Foreign Versions of
English Names" (M-131, Rev.1962) which gives equivalent names in
many languages. Some Yiddish names are included.
While this book would certainly be of some practical use, the case of
Jewish names does differ >from the case of the generality of names in
western civilization (which would presumably constitute the majority of
the names in this book). Many names -- especially names coming >from the
Old and New Testaments (as Christianity calls them) -- do have true
equivalents in dozens of languages. Each language developed its own
version of each biblical name, usually because linguistic idiosyncrasies
demanded some modification in the spelling, the ending, etc. Therefore
Iakob (Gk), Jacobus (Lat.), Ya`qub (Arab.), Jakob (Ger), Jacques (Fr.),
Jacob (Eng.) and even a few variations containing the letter "m" -- such
as Giacomo (It.), Jaime (Sp.) and James (Eng.), are all genuine
equivalents of each other because they are all naturally evolved versions
of the same name, namely the biblical Hebrew name Ya'aqob (in which the "b"
is for technical reasons pronounced "v"). In such cases, >from an English
standpoint, one might argue that it is reasonable to describe Ya`aqob as a
"foreign" equivalent of Jacob -- even though, obviously, Ya'aqob is from
our own Jewish cultural heritage, and antedates "Jacob" by many centuries.

But when people arbitrarily choose an unrelated European name as a
"Soundex" for a child's Hebrew name, this is not a case of natural
evolution; it is simply an individual choice; and the chosen name is in
no way an equivalent of the Hebrew name. In other words, your choice of
Soundex is as good as my choice or some third person's choice. Thus,
tThree people may each have a son named to whom we have given the Hebrew
name Aharon ; but if you choose the secular name Albert, while I choose
Alfred, and the third parent chooses Alan, nobody's choice is more
"equivalent" or less "equivalent" than the other guy's -- because none of
those names is in fact equivalent to Aharon. The only equivalent would be
Aaron, which is the Greek Septuagint rendering of Aaron. The most we can
do is -- sometimes -- to notice what is the most frequently selected
soundalike for a given Hebrew name. Thus Levi usually becomes
Lewis/Louis; so this comes as close as one can get to an "equivalent" for
Levi; but even so, it is not a true equivalent, since the name Louis
actually derives >from the Latin name Ludovicus and has nothing whatsoever
to do with the biblical name Levi!

And if (as happens all too often nowadays), parents start by picking an
English/European name of their choice, which does NOT happen to have a
biblical origin, and only then look around for a Hebrew name that sounds
similar, this is in no sense a Hebrew equivalent for the English name; in
fact, some people might argue that >from a Jewish standpoint it is a
cultural travesty to START by naming a child George or Julia, and THEN pick
Joshua or Judith as the "Soundex" Hebrew name!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


Why apostrophe in name? #general

Steven Chall <steven.chall@...>
 

In some lists, I have come across "Zal'manov". Is this a spelling
variant? I had been thinking "Zalman-ov" for son of Zalman, but the
apostrophe now has me wondering if there might be an alternative avenue
to consider.

Steven Chall in Minneapolis, MN
Researching:
ALEXANDER-&-CHALL (Dvinsk,Russia (now Latvia); before 1900)
ZELMANOV-&-HALKIN (Bobruisk, Russia; before 1907) (France; abt 1930)
BECKER-&-CHASKELEVITZ-(became_CHASWORTH) (Kishenev, Bessarabia; before
1920) (Oreyev, abt 1940)
Someday BRODSKY, COHEN, KAPLAN (Poland / Russia)
All ended up in parts of New York City


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Why apostrophe in name? #general

Steven Chall <steven.chall@...>
 

In some lists, I have come across "Zal'manov". Is this a spelling
variant? I had been thinking "Zalman-ov" for son of Zalman, but the
apostrophe now has me wondering if there might be an alternative avenue
to consider.

Steven Chall in Minneapolis, MN
Researching:
ALEXANDER-&-CHALL (Dvinsk,Russia (now Latvia); before 1900)
ZELMANOV-&-HALKIN (Bobruisk, Russia; before 1907) (France; abt 1930)
BECKER-&-CHASKELEVITZ-(became_CHASWORTH) (Kishenev, Bessarabia; before
1920) (Oreyev, abt 1940)
Someday BRODSKY, COHEN, KAPLAN (Poland / Russia)
All ended up in parts of New York City


Re: Shalom PLOCK (3)... #general

ada01@...
 

Shalom,


The Plock Shtetl CO-OP is pleased to provide a status report:
Years available on the Mormon (LDS) films: 1808 - 1887
Total 15 microfilms containing about 20000 indices of vital records.

* Microfilm 1733680 and 1733681, covering Birth records years 1879, 1882,
1883, 1884, 1885, 1886, and BDM for years 1880 and 1881 (total of 2290
records) were transliterated in the past (REIPP) and are available in JRI
database.

* Microfilm nr 729207 covering years 1822 1823 1824 1825
(total of 469 records) has been posted as well.

* The transliteration of microfilm 730201 has been successfully completed
recently, (total of 2094 records). Years 1826, 1829, 1830, 1831 were already
posted and the remaining years: 1827, 1828, 1832-36 will be posted soon
in the growing JRI database.
Thanks to Tony Stern, Gideon Carmi, Gabi Lana and Debbie Schnur for their support
and devotion in transliteration those years!

I have posted all the information about this project in
a special Web Page, containing the project Status Report updated
from time to time at:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4017/JRIPLOCK.HTM

There are volunteers >from 6 countries, making this project a real special
international Jewish joint venture.

But dear Chaverim, with the progress to date, much remains to be done.
To achieve our goal of indexing all the available vital records of Plock
more volunteers are needed to data enter the index pages (which
have already been photocopied). Name lists >from the work already
completed will be sent to volunteers to help them identify hard-to-read
names.

Those thousands of indices pages, written in calligraphic and picturesque
Polish hand writing, are waiting for some good souls to decipher them and
register them on the web, for generations to come...

Even if you do not have a direct interest in Plock, your help will be
welcomed and appreciated.

I also need a volunteer to photocopy the last remaining microfilms
from the Russian period in one of the LDS libraries in the world.
Please help to disclose the traces of our ancestors in
beautiful Plock, near the Wisla riverside, where once we
walked...

Shalom v'eGmar Khatima Tova to you all.


Ada Holtzman
ISRAEL
Plockoordinator:-)

-------------------------------------
E-mail: ada01@netvision.net.il
Date: 07/25/98
Time: 07:36:01
Web site:http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4017/
-------------------------------------


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Shalom PLOCK (3)... #general

ada01@...
 

Shalom,


The Plock Shtetl CO-OP is pleased to provide a status report:
Years available on the Mormon (LDS) films: 1808 - 1887
Total 15 microfilms containing about 20000 indices of vital records.

* Microfilm 1733680 and 1733681, covering Birth records years 1879, 1882,
1883, 1884, 1885, 1886, and BDM for years 1880 and 1881 (total of 2290
records) were transliterated in the past (REIPP) and are available in JRI
database.

* Microfilm nr 729207 covering years 1822 1823 1824 1825
(total of 469 records) has been posted as well.

* The transliteration of microfilm 730201 has been successfully completed
recently, (total of 2094 records). Years 1826, 1829, 1830, 1831 were already
posted and the remaining years: 1827, 1828, 1832-36 will be posted soon
in the growing JRI database.
Thanks to Tony Stern, Gideon Carmi, Gabi Lana and Debbie Schnur for their support
and devotion in transliteration those years!

I have posted all the information about this project in
a special Web Page, containing the project Status Report updated
from time to time at:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4017/JRIPLOCK.HTM

There are volunteers >from 6 countries, making this project a real special
international Jewish joint venture.

But dear Chaverim, with the progress to date, much remains to be done.
To achieve our goal of indexing all the available vital records of Plock
more volunteers are needed to data enter the index pages (which
have already been photocopied). Name lists >from the work already
completed will be sent to volunteers to help them identify hard-to-read
names.

Those thousands of indices pages, written in calligraphic and picturesque
Polish hand writing, are waiting for some good souls to decipher them and
register them on the web, for generations to come...

Even if you do not have a direct interest in Plock, your help will be
welcomed and appreciated.

I also need a volunteer to photocopy the last remaining microfilms
from the Russian period in one of the LDS libraries in the world.
Please help to disclose the traces of our ancestors in
beautiful Plock, near the Wisla riverside, where once we
walked...

Shalom v'eGmar Khatima Tova to you all.


Ada Holtzman
ISRAEL
Plockoordinator:-)

-------------------------------------
E-mail: ada01@netvision.net.il
Date: 07/25/98
Time: 07:36:01
Web site:http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4017/
-------------------------------------


Re: finding email/regular mail addresses #general

Gailcopela@...
 

Unfortunately, many of these e-mail address directories are either incomplete
or hopelessly out-of-date. I've checked for myself several times and have had
no luck, though my husband's CompuServe account turns up! Go figure.
Certainly, though, such directories are a good place to start.

Gail Copeland
Thornhill (Toronto), ON Canada


PERELGUT/PERLGUT (Bialystok); PEARLGUT (New York) #general

Yale J. Reisner <reisner@...>
 

On behalf of a child survivor in Russia, I am seeking anyone with
information regarding the above-named Bialystok family. Please contact the
undersigned privately.

Several members of the Pearlgut family were members of the New York
Bialystoker organization c. 1950. Perhaps their offspring are out there
somewhere?

Best wishes to all in this New Year of 5759,

-=-
Yale J. Reisner
<reisner@plearn.edu.pl>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: finding email/regular mail addresses #general

Gailcopela@...
 

Unfortunately, many of these e-mail address directories are either incomplete
or hopelessly out-of-date. I've checked for myself several times and have had
no luck, though my husband's CompuServe account turns up! Go figure.
Certainly, though, such directories are a good place to start.

Gail Copeland
Thornhill (Toronto), ON Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen PERELGUT/PERLGUT (Bialystok); PEARLGUT (New York) #general

Yale J. Reisner <reisner@...>
 

On behalf of a child survivor in Russia, I am seeking anyone with
information regarding the above-named Bialystok family. Please contact the
undersigned privately.

Several members of the Pearlgut family were members of the New York
Bialystoker organization c. 1950. Perhaps their offspring are out there
somewhere?

Best wishes to all in this New Year of 5759,

-=-
Yale J. Reisner
<reisner@plearn.edu.pl>


Re: Did Russia Shapiros come from Lithuania? #belarus

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

David Goldman wrote in message
<3.0.1.32.19980929123702.006dd210@pop.erols.com>...
After perusing the Shtetl finder list, I found so many Shapiro families
originating >from towns in Lithuania, that I am even more convinced that my
ancestors on the Shapiro side who lived on the Russia/Belarus border in
Surazh and who were Lubavitchers, must have originated up north in
Lithuania, with a branch moving down to Russia/Belarus for business
reasons
Don't forget that in the century and more before the Partitions of Poland,
much of modern Belarus was PART of Lithuania. Then much of what we now call
Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire. This might help explain many
movements of families as international borders would not have been present
to discourage such movement.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY
PZAVON@Worldnet.att.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Did Russia Shapiros come from Lithuania? #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

David Goldman wrote in message
<3.0.1.32.19980929123702.006dd210@pop.erols.com>...
After perusing the Shtetl finder list, I found so many Shapiro families
originating >from towns in Lithuania, that I am even more convinced that my
ancestors on the Shapiro side who lived on the Russia/Belarus border in
Surazh and who were Lubavitchers, must have originated up north in
Lithuania, with a branch moving down to Russia/Belarus for business
reasons
Don't forget that in the century and more before the Partitions of Poland,
much of modern Belarus was PART of Lithuania. Then much of what we now call
Lithuania was part of the Russian Empire. This might help explain many
movements of families as international borders would not have been present
to discourage such movement.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY
PZAVON@Worldnet.att.net