Regarding the "Chebra Anshei Ponidel Nusach HoAri Zal" Plot in the Mt.
Zion Cemetery in Maspeth, L.I., the name translates as"The Society of the
People of [the town of] Ponedel [who pray according to the customs of]
HoAri Zal." HoAri stands is an acronym for a famous kabalistic rabbi who
lived in Safed in the holy land in the 16th century. "Zal" simply is an
acronym for "zichrono livracha" meaning "his memory for a blessing."

In short, all Nusach HoAri synagogues in America were Lubavitcher
Chassidic synagogues; hence, your ancestors were Lubavitcher Chassidim.
See my circa 1991 article in "Avotaynu" entiteled "Chabad-Lubavitch
Literature as a Genealogical Source."

Whether they orignally stemmed >from Ponedel (now called Ponedelys),
Lithuana (between Kupishok (Kupiskis) and Rokiskis (Rokishok) or whether
they had some other connection to the organization (were in-laws of
someone >from Ponedel) is a matter for you to research. Don't forget that
that entire area was part of Russia before WWI.

Yours truly, Michoel Ronn (chromelion@juno.com)
383 Kingston Ave. Box #133
Brooklyn, NY 11213

Regarding the "Chebra Anshei Ponidel Nusach HoAri Zal" Plot in the Mt.
Zion Cemetery in Maspeth, L.I., the name translates as"The Society of the
People of [the town of] Ponedel [who pray according to the customs of]
HoAri Zal." HoAri stands is an acronym for a famous kabalistic rabbi who
lived in Safed in the holy land in the 16th century. "Zal" simply is an
acronym for "zichrono livracha" meaning "his memory for a blessing."

In short, all Nusach HoAri synagogues in America were Lubavitcher
Chassidic synagogues; hence, your ancestors were Lubavitcher Chassidim.
See my circa 1991 article in "Avotaynu" entiteled "Chabad-Lubavitch
Literature as a Genealogical Source."

Whether they orignally stemmed >from Ponedel (now called Ponedelys),
Lithuana (between Kupishok (Kupiskis) and Rokiskis (Rokishok) or whether
they had some other connection to the organization (were in-laws of
someone >from Ponedel) is a matter for you to research. Don't forget that
that entire area was part of Russia before WWI.

Yours truly, Michoel Ronn (chromelion@juno.com)
383 Kingston Ave. Box #133
Brooklyn, NY 11213

Of course, if the husband and wife were cousins-as was very common-it
would not be so unusual that their fathers had the same, uncommon in
general but not in that family, name.

Of course, if the husband and wife were cousins-as was very common-it
would not be so unusual that their fathers had the same, uncommon in
general but not in that family, name.

A soldier of the First World War named Sidney FLAUM is buried in Plashet
Jewish Cemetery, London. He died on 29 March 1918 aged 18. His parents were
Maurice A. and Phoebe FLAUM OF 47 Cleveland St, Mile End, London, E1.
Perhaps these were part of the family.

Harold Pollins
pollins@globalnet.co.uk
Searching
GLYCKENHOUSE Belarus
VARFMAN Belarus
POLONSKY Slonim in Grodno
BROOKER Slonim in Grodno
----------
Shirley Flaum wrote:

Does anyone out there know the history of the FLAUM family that came to

the

U.S. >from Russia (?) via Liverpool, England? Here is the sketchy

information ...

A soldier of the First World War named Sidney FLAUM is buried in Plashet
Jewish Cemetery, London. He died on 29 March 1918 aged 18. His parents were
Maurice A. and Phoebe FLAUM OF 47 Cleveland St, Mile End, London, E1.
Perhaps these were part of the family.

Harold Pollins
pollins@globalnet.co.uk
Searching
GLYCKENHOUSE Belarus
VARFMAN Belarus
POLONSKY Slonim in Grodno
BROOKER Slonim in Grodno
----------
Shirley Flaum wrote:

Does anyone out there know the history of the FLAUM family that came to

the

U.S. >from Russia (?) via Liverpool, England? Here is the sketchy

information ...

Hi everyone,

Anyone planning on requesting old voter registration records >from the Bronx
will have to hold off on their requests until at least September. I requested
one and was informed by return mail that they are undergoing construction and
old records are unavailable for searching at this time.

Sherri Bobish

Hi everyone,

Anyone planning on requesting old voter registration records >from the Bronx
will have to hold off on their requests until at least September. I requested
one and was informed by return mail that they are undergoing construction and
old records are unavailable for searching at this time.

Sherri Bobish

In a message dated Mon 17 August 1998 at 0923 hrs >from "Howard M. Rensin=
"
<hrensin@erols.com> wrote :

Does any one know if FTM 4.4 can be made to print family trees so that

the page breaks don't fall in

the middle of name boxes? Its tough to tape them all together and have

them look like anything with
> the names all cut up.

I would suggest the following:-

When you have the descendant tree view on your screen, place your mouse
arrow over the area of the tree. Press your right mouse button and you
will be presented with a floating menu. Select the item 'Tree Format'
pressing your left mouse button. At the top of the selection box you are=

shown you have a choice of 'Book layout' and 'Custom layout' You may hav=
e
'Custom layout' selected at the moment. select 'Book layout' instead and=

then OK. You should now be able to print without broken boxes. Instead =
of
printing off a number of sheets that require some how sticking together,
sheets are printed off that have page links and therefore I believe a
better presentation.

Richard Sinclair
RichardSinclair@Compuserve.COM
Altrincham, Cheshire, England

Researching :

Grodzinski / Grodzinski / Kahn / Khan / Lazarus / Pacyna / Plagerson /
Schindler / Seaberg / Steinsapir / Stein-Sapir / Szejnsapir / Szteinsapir=
/
Sztejnsapir / Sapirstein

In a message dated Mon 17 August 1998 at 0923 hrs >from "Howard M. Rensin=
"
<hrensin@erols.com> wrote :

Does any one know if FTM 4.4 can be made to print family trees so that

the page breaks don't fall in

the middle of name boxes? Its tough to tape them all together and have

them look like anything with
> the names all cut up.

I would suggest the following:-

When you have the descendant tree view on your screen, place your mouse
arrow over the area of the tree. Press your right mouse button and you
will be presented with a floating menu. Select the item 'Tree Format'
pressing your left mouse button. At the top of the selection box you are=

shown you have a choice of 'Book layout' and 'Custom layout' You may hav=
e
'Custom layout' selected at the moment. select 'Book layout' instead and=

then OK. You should now be able to print without broken boxes. Instead =
of
printing off a number of sheets that require some how sticking together,
sheets are printed off that have page links and therefore I believe a
better presentation.

Richard Sinclair
RichardSinclair@Compuserve.COM
Altrincham, Cheshire, England

Researching :

Grodzinski / Grodzinski / Kahn / Khan / Lazarus / Pacyna / Plagerson /
Schindler / Seaberg / Steinsapir / Stein-Sapir / Szejnsapir / Szteinsapir=
/
Sztejnsapir / Sapirstein

I'm still trying to find out where Hirsch Melech (Herman) SEIBEL is buried. I
followed the leads sent to me by kind JGenners after my last Avon Ave post.
I've requested his death certificate >from the NJ archives three times, giving
a large span of years, but came up blank. I just wrote for his wife Lena's
certificate knowing they are buried side by side. I've called several of the
cemeteries in NY and NJ where other family members are buried. I thought if I
could get the _official_ name of that shul on Avon Avenue which he attended,
I might be able to connect it with a burial society. Since AJGS advises
visiting cemeteries in Newark ONLY on the Sunday between the High Holidays, I
would like to have a name before then with time to determine the cemetery. Any
leads appreciated.
Yours,
Roni Seibel Liebowitz
New York

I'm still trying to find out where Hirsch Melech (Herman) SEIBEL is buried. I
followed the leads sent to me by kind JGenners after my last Avon Ave post.
I've requested his death certificate >from the NJ archives three times, giving
a large span of years, but came up blank. I just wrote for his wife Lena's
certificate knowing they are buried side by side. I've called several of the
cemeteries in NY and NJ where other family members are buried. I thought if I
could get the _official_ name of that shul on Avon Avenue which he attended,
I might be able to connect it with a burial society. Since AJGS advises
visiting cemeteries in Newark ONLY on the Sunday between the High Holidays, I
would like to have a name before then with time to determine the cemetery. Any
leads appreciated.
Yours,
Roni Seibel Liebowitz
New York

In a message dated 98-08-17 12:19:58 EDT, you write:

<< This means f.e. that jews of
Syria or Gruzia are neither Ashkenazi nor Sepharadi !
In the last years in Israel the term "sepharadi" is used to denote
all jews coming >from the Asia or Africa, but this is completely wrong.
Best regards, >>

No, Alice, it is not COMPLETELY wrong. We should be very careful before we
make such sweeping statements especially if they appear to shastize others.

There is a distinction in many areas between Ashkenazim and Sfardim in matters
of minhag and halakha: what is the proper method of kosher slaughtering, what
is permitted to eat, what is permitted on Pesach, how to write Torah and
mezuza scrolls, how to put on tefillin, what is the correct order of
prayers--and laws governing marriage, divorce etc. The distinction dates way
back, to some extent for over 20 centuries between the customs of the
Babylonian exiles and those who returned to Zion, and was further sharpened In
the 11th - 14th century CE as the laws were codified, and even more so when
printing made possible the wide dissemination of prayer books. Those in the
south of Europe, N Africa and the middle East adopted the Sefardi rules,
emanating largely >from the laws codified by the Spanish sages; those north of
the Pyrenees, the alps and the Danube valley basing themselves on the rules
promulgated first by the scholars of the Rhine basin and later those of
Germany and Poland, and to some extent, e.g. the pronounciation, influenced by
the Jerusalem, rather than Babylonian ways. (Ashkenazi Hassidim--who came

from Eastern Europe in the 18th century and are not to be confused with

Hassidei Ashkenaz who flourished in Western Germany in the middle ages--under
the influences of the Kabbalist of Safed adopted some modified Sephardi rites,
especially in the order of prayers, known as Nussach Sfard to distinguish it

from Nussach Sfardi--everything clear now? <g>.)

Some say that the Sfardim of Spain etc migrated there before the destruction
of the Temple, while the Ashkenazim of the Rhine Basin are descended >from Jews
enslaved by the Romans at the fall of Jerusalem, and brought to Rome in
chains; later, freed, they followed the routes of Roman conquests in Europe.

Ashkenaz is NOT the Hebrew name for Germany. Its morphology is clearly not
even Hebrew. Ashkenaz is mentioned as the name of a tribe descended from
Yaphet, son of Noah and was MANY years later, for reasons not quite clear,
attributed to the Rhineland area that was to become for many centuries the
center of Judaism in Germany. Sefard is a Hebrew word; its association with
Spain came relatively late in our history.

I think that's about all that henealogists need to know on this topic <g>

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

Bernet: >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, Hirschaid, (Bavaria)
Königshöfer: >from Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
Altmann: >from Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan (Posen), Beuthen
(Bytom)--Upper Silesia/Poland
Wolf(f): >from Furth, Nurnberg, Wurzburg, Frankfurt (S Germany),
Rotterdam


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Our review of this message indicates that it includes
references to religious law, history, geography, theology and etymology
but very little reference to genealogy. It also sounds like a verbal
skirmish or perhaps a full scale war might be breaking out. So unless
there is a very learned response yet to come, we'll end the war before it
starts.

In a message dated 98-08-17 12:19:58 EDT, you write:

<< This means f.e. that jews of
Syria or Gruzia are neither Ashkenazi nor Sepharadi !
In the last years in Israel the term "sepharadi" is used to denote
all jews coming >from the Asia or Africa, but this is completely wrong.
Best regards, >>

No, Alice, it is not COMPLETELY wrong. We should be very careful before we
make such sweeping statements especially if they appear to shastize others.

There is a distinction in many areas between Ashkenazim and Sfardim in matters
of minhag and halakha: what is the proper method of kosher slaughtering, what
is permitted to eat, what is permitted on Pesach, how to write Torah and
mezuza scrolls, how to put on tefillin, what is the correct order of
prayers--and laws governing marriage, divorce etc. The distinction dates way
back, to some extent for over 20 centuries between the customs of the
Babylonian exiles and those who returned to Zion, and was further sharpened In
the 11th - 14th century CE as the laws were codified, and even more so when
printing made possible the wide dissemination of prayer books. Those in the
south of Europe, N Africa and the middle East adopted the Sefardi rules,
emanating largely >from the laws codified by the Spanish sages; those north of
the Pyrenees, the alps and the Danube valley basing themselves on the rules
promulgated first by the scholars of the Rhine basin and later those of
Germany and Poland, and to some extent, e.g. the pronounciation, influenced by
the Jerusalem, rather than Babylonian ways. (Ashkenazi Hassidim--who came

from Eastern Europe in the 18th century and are not to be confused with

Hassidei Ashkenaz who flourished in Western Germany in the middle ages--under
the influences of the Kabbalist of Safed adopted some modified Sephardi rites,
especially in the order of prayers, known as Nussach Sfard to distinguish it

from Nussach Sfardi--everything clear now? <g>.)

Some say that the Sfardim of Spain etc migrated there before the destruction
of the Temple, while the Ashkenazim of the Rhine Basin are descended >from Jews
enslaved by the Romans at the fall of Jerusalem, and brought to Rome in
chains; later, freed, they followed the routes of Roman conquests in Europe.

Ashkenaz is NOT the Hebrew name for Germany. Its morphology is clearly not
even Hebrew. Ashkenaz is mentioned as the name of a tribe descended from
Yaphet, son of Noah and was MANY years later, for reasons not quite clear,
attributed to the Rhineland area that was to become for many centuries the
center of Judaism in Germany. Sefard is a Hebrew word; its association with
Spain came relatively late in our history.

I think that's about all that henealogists need to know on this topic <g>

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

Bernet: >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, Hirschaid, (Bavaria)
Königshöfer: >from Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
Altmann: >from Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan (Posen), Beuthen
(Bytom)--Upper Silesia/Poland
Wolf(f): >from Furth, Nurnberg, Wurzburg, Frankfurt (S Germany),
Rotterdam


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Our review of this message indicates that it includes
references to religious law, history, geography, theology and etymology
but very little reference to genealogy. It also sounds like a verbal
skirmish or perhaps a full scale war might be breaking out. So unless
there is a very learned response yet to come, we'll end the war before it
starts.

Please make your subject headings specific. I find that since the format
has changed, I look at the list and if the heading doesn't have enough, or
specific enough info, I just delete the entire Digest. Before, there seemed
to have more info and at least it intrigued me to look at almost all of the
entries. I haven't the time nor the patience to go thru all of the list as
it is.

So, please -- give more info in THOSE HEADINGS.

Thanks
Arlene

MODERATOR'S NOTE: We can only encourage those who post messages here to
read the rules and guidelines so that fewer rejections (which are quick
and easy to do) and less editing (which is tedious and time consuming)
are necessary. In a perfect world, the moderator's job would be completely
superfluous. For what it's worth, we have edited this message's subject
to make it more specific!!!

Please make your subject headings specific. I find that since the format
has changed, I look at the list and if the heading doesn't have enough, or
specific enough info, I just delete the entire Digest. Before, there seemed
to have more info and at least it intrigued me to look at almost all of the
entries. I haven't the time nor the patience to go thru all of the list as
it is.

So, please -- give more info in THOSE HEADINGS.

Thanks
Arlene

MODERATOR'S NOTE: We can only encourage those who post messages here to
read the rules and guidelines so that fewer rejections (which are quick
and easy to do) and less editing (which is tedious and time consuming)
are necessary. In a perfect world, the moderator's job would be completely
superfluous. For what it's worth, we have edited this message's subject
to make it more specific!!!

Joyce writes:
jdmeyer <jdmeyer@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: SCHRAGER

my pgggf was Philip (Phillip?) Schrager >from Iasi, >Romania.
I was told he went to Palestine to die -- this would >probably have been

c. 1910.

Is there any way to look up deaths this early >from records >in Israel?

Yes indeed! Sallyann Sack's book "A Guide to Jewish Gernealogical Research
in Israel" ISBN 0-9626373-7-8
provides the addresses to various Chevra Kadisha (Burial Societies) For a
modest donation they will look up the information and mail it back to you.
That's how I found the grave of my mggrandmother on Mt. of Olives Cemetery
for exactly the same time period Joyce mentions.

Now, thanks to the willingness and persistence of Israel Pickholtz in
Israel, for whom my sister did some research in the LDS records here in the
U.S., we are close to being able to have a phtograph the stone! Israel has
found the grave, but the stone needs to be turned over so he can
photograph it and to do this he needs the help of some stronger, younger
people. <grin> Knowing Israel, he will get the job done, soon

Bottom line is, if you do your "homework" and are prepared to do research
in return for a favor, you can get the job done. Heartfelt thanks to Israel
P, BTW

Hate to sound like a billboard, but that's what JewishGen is all about!

Carol Skydell
Chilmark MA

Joyce writes:
jdmeyer <jdmeyer@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: SCHRAGER

my pgggf was Philip (Phillip?) Schrager >from Iasi, >Romania.
I was told he went to Palestine to die -- this would >probably have been

c. 1910.

Is there any way to look up deaths this early >from records >in Israel?

Yes indeed! Sallyann Sack's book "A Guide to Jewish Gernealogical Research
in Israel" ISBN 0-9626373-7-8
provides the addresses to various Chevra Kadisha (Burial Societies) For a
modest donation they will look up the information and mail it back to you.
That's how I found the grave of my mggrandmother on Mt. of Olives Cemetery
for exactly the same time period Joyce mentions.

Now, thanks to the willingness and persistence of Israel Pickholtz in
Israel, for whom my sister did some research in the LDS records here in the
U.S., we are close to being able to have a phtograph the stone! Israel has
found the grave, but the stone needs to be turned over so he can
photograph it and to do this he needs the help of some stronger, younger
people. <grin> Knowing Israel, he will get the job done, soon

Bottom line is, if you do your "homework" and are prepared to do research
in return for a favor, you can get the job done. Heartfelt thanks to Israel
P, BTW

Hate to sound like a billboard, but that's what JewishGen is all about!

Carol Skydell
Chilmark MA

I am searching for the children or grandchildren of BENJAMIN KIRSCH who
lived on Sutter Avenue in Brooklyn, N. Y. at the turn of the century. He was married to ESTHER. Their children were Pauline, Julius, Abraham,
Joseph, sidney, Gerold, Nettie and Leonard. If any of these names
should be familiar to anyone out there, I would appreciate the
information.

I am also searching for the children or grandchildren of MORITZ, HENRY,
or LOUIS GRAUER. They came to New York in the 1880s and settled in
Brooklyn, New York as well.

Any information that could be of help in locating any of these people
would be of great assistance to me.


Julie Lockwood

I am searching for the children or grandchildren of BENJAMIN KIRSCH who
lived on Sutter Avenue in Brooklyn, N. Y. at the turn of the century. He was married to ESTHER. Their children were Pauline, Julius, Abraham,
Joseph, sidney, Gerold, Nettie and Leonard. If any of these names
should be familiar to anyone out there, I would appreciate the
information.

I am also searching for the children or grandchildren of MORITZ, HENRY,
or LOUIS GRAUER. They came to New York in the 1880s and settled in
Brooklyn, New York as well.

Any information that could be of help in locating any of these people
would be of great assistance to me.


Julie Lockwood