Date   

German Birth Certificate footnote #general

Gary Luke <feraltek@...>
 

We received the German birth certificates of a few children of one family
which all have added information at the bottom about their deaths. The
at a guess this is informatoin >from the German Reperations authorities
who are notified of the death to stop monies flowing
David Lewin

There's been a couple of guesses, but I'm surprised that with all the birth
certificates gotten >from Germany by JewishGeners, that nobody has come
across this and found out how it's done. Does the registry of the death
country advise the registry of the birth country? If so, is there a paper
trail that we can follow too.

I suppose the best place to ask would be the Zulpich Stadt Archives. They
put the footnote there only 20 years ago. They might have an internal file
about it.

Gary

Gary Luke feraltek@zeta.org.au fax +61-2-9519.9907


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen German Birth Certificate footnote #general

Gary Luke <feraltek@...>
 

We received the German birth certificates of a few children of one family
which all have added information at the bottom about their deaths. The
at a guess this is informatoin >from the German Reperations authorities
who are notified of the death to stop monies flowing
David Lewin

There's been a couple of guesses, but I'm surprised that with all the birth
certificates gotten >from Germany by JewishGeners, that nobody has come
across this and found out how it's done. Does the registry of the death
country advise the registry of the birth country? If so, is there a paper
trail that we can follow too.

I suppose the best place to ask would be the Zulpich Stadt Archives. They
put the footnote there only 20 years ago. They might have an internal file
about it.

Gary

Gary Luke feraltek@zeta.org.au fax +61-2-9519.9907


Re: Creating LitvakSIG webpages with JewishGen help #lithuania

DBH12345
 

In a message dated 9/10/98 11:00:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
litvaksig@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:

<< Subject: JewishGen College Re-opens!

Attention all Litvaks...

We are very pleased to announce the reactivation
of the JewishGen College beginning the week of
Oct.5th with "Creating a Webpage"

...SNIP...

Send an email to listserve@lyris.jewishgen.org
and say

subscribe webpage <firstname> <lastname>

enrollment will close on Sunday October 4th
and class will start on Monday Oct. 5th
bring more and more information to us all!

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations >>

Congratulations to JewishGen for organizing this exciting and timely course!
Over the past year more than a dozen individuals and small groups of
researchers have launched Litvak Webpage in association with the LitvakSIG and
Shtetlinks - who have provided lots of help.

I know that there are at least 20 more Litvak groups who have been talking
about getting Webpage up (I've been one of those with that goal but never seem
to have the time to DO IT!) I've been afraid that I didn't have the technical
skill to do it (and I was probably right.) But with this course and the
structured assistance it will provide, I think I can do it, and so can you!

These shtetl web pages can serve many functions: bringing a research group
together and attracting new members; facilitating research by sharing
documents and genealogical records and many kinds of information about a town
that puts this data in historical, political, and social context; pooling
resources to obtain and translate new documents >from the Lithuanian Archives
and bringing this information regarding the shtetl together in one place (in
addition to adding it to the All Lithuania Database). Some groups have
published memoirs, photographs, translations of Yiskor books and similar
historical and memorial accounts of the town. Others have transcribed every
tombstone in the local cemetery. If you haven't recently done so, please
spend some time exploring the really amazing Webpage that you'll find in the
Shtetlinks directory:

<http://www.jewishgen.org/shtetlinks.> You'll note that there are 25 current
Litvak Webpage in Lithuania and a couple more Litvak communities in Belarus.

This is a wonderful opportunity to take advantage of the help that JewishGen
is offering each of us, to accomplish something that many of us have been
wanting to do but didn't feel quite able to do on our own.

Before the deadline for enrollment arrives, we would suggest that people use
the Digest to network with others. Eric Goldstein (the LitvakSIG Research
Group coordinator) and I will -- with access to membership records indicating
ancestral shtetls you have provided -- help you find people who share your
interest in specific towns to form new groups. With several people >from each
group learning how to develop a Webpage, the process should be easier and fun.

The current major research focus of the LitvakSIG is on the uyezd revision
list projects, and that is well underway (with records form Siauliai,
Vilkomir, Oshmiany and Trakiai districts being processed for entry into our
All Lithuania Database and records >from Raseiniai, Panevezys and Telsiai and
Kovno districts on order, we are passing the half way point towards the goal
of a "mid-19th Century census of Lithuania.")

Our relationship with the Kaunas Regional Archive has been greatly
strengthened and we will soon have the Catalog of the Jewish Holdings of that
Archives on the Internet. Discussions are underway to establish procedures
for ordering entire town lists >from that Catalog >from the Kaunas Archive by
shtetl research groups through the LitvakSIG. Once the uyezd/district
revision lists help us learn more clearly exactly what towns our ancestors
came from, the focus of research will return to the shtetl. This is why the
shtetl web pages will become invaluable research tools.

This opportunity to learn how to create them couldn't come at a better time
for our SIG. Jewish genealogical research requires that we constantly develop
new skills to take better advantage of the wonders of the Internet, and this
is a particularly valuable skill.

David Hoffman
Co-Coordinator, LitvakSIG


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Creating LitvakSIG webpages with JewishGen help #lithuania

DBH12345
 

In a message dated 9/10/98 11:00:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
litvaksig@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:

<< Subject: JewishGen College Re-opens!

Attention all Litvaks...

We are very pleased to announce the reactivation
of the JewishGen College beginning the week of
Oct.5th with "Creating a Webpage"

...SNIP...

Send an email to listserve@lyris.jewishgen.org
and say

subscribe webpage <firstname> <lastname>

enrollment will close on Sunday October 4th
and class will start on Monday Oct. 5th
bring more and more information to us all!

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations >>

Congratulations to JewishGen for organizing this exciting and timely course!
Over the past year more than a dozen individuals and small groups of
researchers have launched Litvak Webpage in association with the LitvakSIG and
Shtetlinks - who have provided lots of help.

I know that there are at least 20 more Litvak groups who have been talking
about getting Webpage up (I've been one of those with that goal but never seem
to have the time to DO IT!) I've been afraid that I didn't have the technical
skill to do it (and I was probably right.) But with this course and the
structured assistance it will provide, I think I can do it, and so can you!

These shtetl web pages can serve many functions: bringing a research group
together and attracting new members; facilitating research by sharing
documents and genealogical records and many kinds of information about a town
that puts this data in historical, political, and social context; pooling
resources to obtain and translate new documents >from the Lithuanian Archives
and bringing this information regarding the shtetl together in one place (in
addition to adding it to the All Lithuania Database). Some groups have
published memoirs, photographs, translations of Yiskor books and similar
historical and memorial accounts of the town. Others have transcribed every
tombstone in the local cemetery. If you haven't recently done so, please
spend some time exploring the really amazing Webpage that you'll find in the
Shtetlinks directory:

<http://www.jewishgen.org/shtetlinks.> You'll note that there are 25 current
Litvak Webpage in Lithuania and a couple more Litvak communities in Belarus.

This is a wonderful opportunity to take advantage of the help that JewishGen
is offering each of us, to accomplish something that many of us have been
wanting to do but didn't feel quite able to do on our own.

Before the deadline for enrollment arrives, we would suggest that people use
the Digest to network with others. Eric Goldstein (the LitvakSIG Research
Group coordinator) and I will -- with access to membership records indicating
ancestral shtetls you have provided -- help you find people who share your
interest in specific towns to form new groups. With several people >from each
group learning how to develop a Webpage, the process should be easier and fun.

The current major research focus of the LitvakSIG is on the uyezd revision
list projects, and that is well underway (with records form Siauliai,
Vilkomir, Oshmiany and Trakiai districts being processed for entry into our
All Lithuania Database and records >from Raseiniai, Panevezys and Telsiai and
Kovno districts on order, we are passing the half way point towards the goal
of a "mid-19th Century census of Lithuania.")

Our relationship with the Kaunas Regional Archive has been greatly
strengthened and we will soon have the Catalog of the Jewish Holdings of that
Archives on the Internet. Discussions are underway to establish procedures
for ordering entire town lists >from that Catalog >from the Kaunas Archive by
shtetl research groups through the LitvakSIG. Once the uyezd/district
revision lists help us learn more clearly exactly what towns our ancestors
came from, the focus of research will return to the shtetl. This is why the
shtetl web pages will become invaluable research tools.

This opportunity to learn how to create them couldn't come at a better time
for our SIG. Jewish genealogical research requires that we constantly develop
new skills to take better advantage of the wonders of the Internet, and this
is a particularly valuable skill.

David Hoffman
Co-Coordinator, LitvakSIG


questions re posting miscellaneous lists of names #general

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

Folks, we've been getting a lot of questions and complaints
regarding the necessity to cut off the posting of miscellaneous
lists of names. David Fielker's email is, in essence, a
compilation of all the concerns about which a few of you have
written. We're taking the opportunity of printing David's
letter, and interspersing our responses throughout.


From: david@lecture.demon.co.uk (David Fielker)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:57:48 +0100
Subject: List of names

I don't understand the technicalities behind the limitations
of space that have prompted the sudden suppression of lists
of names in postings, but I think this is a matter for regret.
The issue plain and simple, is the fact that with our new
MailingList Server program, "Lyris" (and BTW the only one out
there that would
allow moderation of mailing lists... so we had nothing else
from which
to choose) allows publishing only one digest a day. Hopefully
in later versions Lyris will make multiple digests a possibility.

Right now, we're between a rock and a hard place... the
over-long digests are causing problems with many of our
subscribers who are unable to open them. We are struggling, not
only to help answer their concerns, but to keep the digests down
to a manageable size. That
in a nutshell is the "technical problem".

Many people have gone to enormous lengths to provide us with
searchable databases elsewhere containing much longer lists
of names.
A searchable database and a one-time mention in the digest
are two vastly different things. We encourage the searchable
database because it can contain names grouped under a particular
topic. Thus, if you were looking for the names of people or the
towns being searched, you look in the JGFF. If you have family
from Grodno and you want to check on that surname in the early
1900's, you go to
the 1912 Grodno voter list. That makes total sense.

Other advantages of databases are the ability to search using
Daitch-Mokotoff Soundex, wildcard searches, and various sorting
and filtering methods. Random lists of names posted to the
Discussion Group do
not have those capabilities.

The recent trend on JewishGen, in producing short lists
of names >from documents which members have received,
comprised generous and thoughtful actions which could
only be helpful to some of the rest of us. I was on the
point of getting out my own collection of documents to
see if I too could offer information.
Short list of names with no accompanying information are a
complete and absolute waste of bandwidth, time and energy if
posted to the Discussion Group. The Discussion Group was
never intended for this kind of information. That is not to say
that the information should not be collected by individuals
willing to share... it should be collected, AND SAVED for when
our proposed database of Miscellaneous Information (to be named
"DIDO", which is "data-in
data-out") is finally ready... THAT is where the information
should go.
Then we can have categories such as Names Found in School
Yearbooks or Names Found in Synagogue Bulletins...in other words
lists of names that are indexed nowhere.

But in all due honesty, most of these "list of names" which
people are posting are ALREADY INDEXED in their original
sources. The New
York Passenger Arrival Manifests are soundex indexed; the U.S.
Federal Census is soundex indexed.What people are doing is
unindexing previously indexed data. This is a ridiculous waste
of time
and energy!

A random set of 30 names >from one page of a U.S. Census --
out of the three million Jews in NYC at the time -- has an
astronomical chance of a hit -- it's valueless. If someone is
truly interested in Tillie Goldberg, one can easily find her in
the soundex
index to the U.S. Federal Census for New York. The chance that
you'll notice it on the digest that day are nil.

It is hard to see what the alternatives could be. Do I say
that I have a page >from a passenger list for a certain date,
ship and port, and wait to be bombarded with messages >from
hopeful JewishGenners asking if their names are on it? Do
I offer to send the list privately to anyone who asks?
Either course would place an enormous burden on the offerer.
The only reasonable alternative, and the one that places no
burden on the offerer and no burden on JewishGen, is to hold off
until DIDO is a reality. Or you could post it on your OWN web
page.

But, in reality, if someone is researching a particular name,
they can go right to the source, and not some random .01%
sample. One is directed research, the other is playing the
lottery.


These are not like the lists of names that members append
to their postings, which certainly can be overdone in quantity
and frequency. These are names with information attached to
them, and they after all are the life blood of genealogy.
This, surely, is what JewishGen is all about. Please let us
be allowed to publish our lists.
On the contrary David, most of the names that people post >from
a census for example have no information whatsoever attatched
to them... Here's a sample copied >from a recent digest:
----------------------------------------------------------------

We have a one page of a 1910 Chicago Census for Austin Avenue
and Robie Street with the following names:
Herman Levin and Dora, Edward, Maurice, Sophia, & Fannie
Andrew Markovitch
Julia Thompson and Violet
Frank Stuart and Rose
Mike Oresevsky (last name not clear) and Annie, Charlie, Fred &
Victoria

Rosie Gerstein
Mike Karsuovitch and Mary, Anna, Fannie, Mary, Steve & Otto
George Karlovitch
Louis Bokitch
Sam Clapitch
Luke Sheta and Frank
William Zilner and Ophelia
Hiram Johnson and Henrietta
Chauncey Viney and Madeline
Richard Carter and Helen, Clara, Mary
Sam Sharfman
August Sand and Clara, Hugo

If any of the names are familair, please contact us direct
and we will give you the balance of the information.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

As well intentioned as this is, how does this help anybody.?..
It's only throwing a few needles into a haystack.... How many
Rosie Gerstein's
do your think there are in the world... how does one know if
this Rosie Gerstein is THEIR long sought aunt Rosie Gerstein?
No way, no how, without writing back to the posters and asking
questions. What value
does this list have for somebody who starts to read the digest
next week and completely misses the post?

But, if the COMPLETE INFORMATION on Rosie Gerstein were entered
into a searchable database, it would have tremendous value in
helping someone determine if that's the Rosie for whom they were
looking. If someone really cares about Rosie GERSTEIN, they can
get a 1910 Chicago City Directory >from any public library, or the
LDS, and find her for sure.

Yes, names *plus information* is the lifeblood of
genealogy...lists of names with no accompanying information are
just that... lists of
names. The only lists of names that have unique value are those
of highly unusual or madeup names... any SKYDELL for example,
is related since it is a totally made up name... BUT every
SKIDELSKY
is not related since it's a toponym... it needs accompanying
information to help one sort it through.

JewishGen is not about posting names... any telephone book can
do that... JewishGen is about providing the means by which one
can search, all of our growing list of searchable databases,
the route
to archives, the *strategies* by which someone can find traces of
Uncle Yankel, not a place to post a question asking if someone
knew Uncle Yankel who lived on the Grand Concourse in the Bronx
in 1902.

I hope we have made the issue a little clearer for you. It is
an attempt
to upgrade the quality of the mailing list...not an attempt to
stifle
worthwile messages... and at the same time keep it to a
manageable size for us all.

Carol Skydell
(with help and input >from Warren Blatt)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen questions re posting miscellaneous lists of names #general

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

Folks, we've been getting a lot of questions and complaints
regarding the necessity to cut off the posting of miscellaneous
lists of names. David Fielker's email is, in essence, a
compilation of all the concerns about which a few of you have
written. We're taking the opportunity of printing David's
letter, and interspersing our responses throughout.


From: david@lecture.demon.co.uk (David Fielker)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:57:48 +0100
Subject: List of names

I don't understand the technicalities behind the limitations
of space that have prompted the sudden suppression of lists
of names in postings, but I think this is a matter for regret.
The issue plain and simple, is the fact that with our new
MailingList Server program, "Lyris" (and BTW the only one out
there that would
allow moderation of mailing lists... so we had nothing else
from which
to choose) allows publishing only one digest a day. Hopefully
in later versions Lyris will make multiple digests a possibility.

Right now, we're between a rock and a hard place... the
over-long digests are causing problems with many of our
subscribers who are unable to open them. We are struggling, not
only to help answer their concerns, but to keep the digests down
to a manageable size. That
in a nutshell is the "technical problem".

Many people have gone to enormous lengths to provide us with
searchable databases elsewhere containing much longer lists
of names.
A searchable database and a one-time mention in the digest
are two vastly different things. We encourage the searchable
database because it can contain names grouped under a particular
topic. Thus, if you were looking for the names of people or the
towns being searched, you look in the JGFF. If you have family
from Grodno and you want to check on that surname in the early
1900's, you go to
the 1912 Grodno voter list. That makes total sense.

Other advantages of databases are the ability to search using
Daitch-Mokotoff Soundex, wildcard searches, and various sorting
and filtering methods. Random lists of names posted to the
Discussion Group do
not have those capabilities.

The recent trend on JewishGen, in producing short lists
of names >from documents which members have received,
comprised generous and thoughtful actions which could
only be helpful to some of the rest of us. I was on the
point of getting out my own collection of documents to
see if I too could offer information.
Short list of names with no accompanying information are a
complete and absolute waste of bandwidth, time and energy if
posted to the Discussion Group. The Discussion Group was
never intended for this kind of information. That is not to say
that the information should not be collected by individuals
willing to share... it should be collected, AND SAVED for when
our proposed database of Miscellaneous Information (to be named
"DIDO", which is "data-in
data-out") is finally ready... THAT is where the information
should go.
Then we can have categories such as Names Found in School
Yearbooks or Names Found in Synagogue Bulletins...in other words
lists of names that are indexed nowhere.

But in all due honesty, most of these "list of names" which
people are posting are ALREADY INDEXED in their original
sources. The New
York Passenger Arrival Manifests are soundex indexed; the U.S.
Federal Census is soundex indexed.What people are doing is
unindexing previously indexed data. This is a ridiculous waste
of time
and energy!

A random set of 30 names >from one page of a U.S. Census --
out of the three million Jews in NYC at the time -- has an
astronomical chance of a hit -- it's valueless. If someone is
truly interested in Tillie Goldberg, one can easily find her in
the soundex
index to the U.S. Federal Census for New York. The chance that
you'll notice it on the digest that day are nil.

It is hard to see what the alternatives could be. Do I say
that I have a page >from a passenger list for a certain date,
ship and port, and wait to be bombarded with messages >from
hopeful JewishGenners asking if their names are on it? Do
I offer to send the list privately to anyone who asks?
Either course would place an enormous burden on the offerer.
The only reasonable alternative, and the one that places no
burden on the offerer and no burden on JewishGen, is to hold off
until DIDO is a reality. Or you could post it on your OWN web
page.

But, in reality, if someone is researching a particular name,
they can go right to the source, and not some random .01%
sample. One is directed research, the other is playing the
lottery.


These are not like the lists of names that members append
to their postings, which certainly can be overdone in quantity
and frequency. These are names with information attached to
them, and they after all are the life blood of genealogy.
This, surely, is what JewishGen is all about. Please let us
be allowed to publish our lists.
On the contrary David, most of the names that people post >from
a census for example have no information whatsoever attatched
to them... Here's a sample copied >from a recent digest:
----------------------------------------------------------------

We have a one page of a 1910 Chicago Census for Austin Avenue
and Robie Street with the following names:
Herman Levin and Dora, Edward, Maurice, Sophia, & Fannie
Andrew Markovitch
Julia Thompson and Violet
Frank Stuart and Rose
Mike Oresevsky (last name not clear) and Annie, Charlie, Fred &
Victoria

Rosie Gerstein
Mike Karsuovitch and Mary, Anna, Fannie, Mary, Steve & Otto
George Karlovitch
Louis Bokitch
Sam Clapitch
Luke Sheta and Frank
William Zilner and Ophelia
Hiram Johnson and Henrietta
Chauncey Viney and Madeline
Richard Carter and Helen, Clara, Mary
Sam Sharfman
August Sand and Clara, Hugo

If any of the names are familair, please contact us direct
and we will give you the balance of the information.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

As well intentioned as this is, how does this help anybody.?..
It's only throwing a few needles into a haystack.... How many
Rosie Gerstein's
do your think there are in the world... how does one know if
this Rosie Gerstein is THEIR long sought aunt Rosie Gerstein?
No way, no how, without writing back to the posters and asking
questions. What value
does this list have for somebody who starts to read the digest
next week and completely misses the post?

But, if the COMPLETE INFORMATION on Rosie Gerstein were entered
into a searchable database, it would have tremendous value in
helping someone determine if that's the Rosie for whom they were
looking. If someone really cares about Rosie GERSTEIN, they can
get a 1910 Chicago City Directory >from any public library, or the
LDS, and find her for sure.

Yes, names *plus information* is the lifeblood of
genealogy...lists of names with no accompanying information are
just that... lists of
names. The only lists of names that have unique value are those
of highly unusual or madeup names... any SKYDELL for example,
is related since it is a totally made up name... BUT every
SKIDELSKY
is not related since it's a toponym... it needs accompanying
information to help one sort it through.

JewishGen is not about posting names... any telephone book can
do that... JewishGen is about providing the means by which one
can search, all of our growing list of searchable databases,
the route
to archives, the *strategies* by which someone can find traces of
Uncle Yankel, not a place to post a question asking if someone
knew Uncle Yankel who lived on the Grand Concourse in the Bronx
in 1902.

I hope we have made the issue a little clearer for you. It is
an attempt
to upgrade the quality of the mailing list...not an attempt to
stifle
worthwile messages... and at the same time keep it to a
manageable size for us all.

Carol Skydell
(with help and input >from Warren Blatt)


Re: ALEINOKOV and others #belarus

dardasht@...
 

Subject: Re: Re: Alienikov Family
From: krefman@cybersol.com (Krefman, Stephen)


In response to the recent postings by David Brill and Schelly
Dardashti regarding the Alienikov family:

I have an ALENIKOV family tree at my home going back to a Dov Ber
ALENIKOV in the mid 1800's in Tolshin, Mogilev Gebernia and including
people killed in the holocaust and others who lived in Moscow, Russia
and in Philadelphia, PA. Related names I recall being on the tree
include NAIDOVICH and STUCKMEISTER. Much of the information came from
a recent Soviet emigree in NYC with whom I corresponded in the 1980's.
Dear Steve, the names Dov Ber, Berka or Berl (or a better transliteration
would be Berel) are nearly interchangable. Dov=Ber, both mean "bear", and
Berka and Berl are variations. Either the same person, or named after the same
ancestor, allowing for personal taste and naming fashion!!

The name "Berka" ALEINIKOFF found by Schelly Dardashti does not sound
familiar but I do recall a Beryl.

When I locate the tree, I will post it to the Belarus SIG.
That would be a big help. thanks, Steve.

Steve, I took the liberty of checking the index for your names. See below 9May
be of interest to others). Remembering our cardinal rule of being flexible in
possibilities, some are not exact, but are possible variations. Again, i took
the liberty of posting this to the group in the hope that others looking for
similar names might find something they recognize or are interested in
pursuing. Good luck to all.

Surnames of greatest interest to me in Mogilev Gebernia (or Moliver
Gebernia, as my family calls it) are:

TSELOVITZ / TILOWITS (Orsha)1873 TILES Gdalia
1874: TILES Idel
1877: TININ Shmuil
1887: TILIN Mordukh TILIn Abram-elia

ROZIN / ROSEN (Orsha)
1872: REIZIN Yankel
1873: RASSIN Meer
1873: RASSINKIN Meer (could be same as above)
1874: ROZANOV Abram-Alter ROZENBERG Shmuil (twins)
1875: ROZIN Khaim ROZINBERG Movsha ROZIN Khaim
1876: ROZMAN Isroil
1877: ROZIN Afroim ROZENGAUZ (G=H) (ROSENHAUS) Ekhil
RASSIN Dovid-Meilakh ROZINKIN Aizik
1878: ROZIN David ROZIN Borukh-Leib ROZMAN Yankel
1880: ROSSIN girsha RUSHIN Vulf ROZIN Movsha
1883: ROZENGAUZ Ekhil
1885: RISSIN Dovid
1887: ROZIN Alter ROZINBERG Meer ROZENGAUZ Ekhil ROZMAN Shmuil
1888: ROZENBAUM Movsha ROZMAN Dovid ROZMAN Dovid ROZENBAUM Movsha
1889: ROZIN Meer ROZINOV Alter
1890: ROZIN Essel (twins) ROZIN Feig
1892: RUZIN Khaya-Sora (mother is listed when father dies before birth)
ROZINKIN Abram

KRUGLOS / KRUGLOZE (Tolshin)1872: KRUKOV Gershon
1880: KRUGLYANSKI Abram-Shloma, KARUKIN Nokhim
1881: KRUGLIK Simkha-Yankel
1883: KARUKIN Nokhim
1885: KRUGLYAK Simkha-Yankel
1890: KORUKIN Nokhim


NAIDEAU / NAIDOFF / NAIDOVICH (Tolshin)1873: NEIMAN Shmuil-Essel NAIMARK Kahim-Vulf NAIMARK Zalman-Essel
NEISSIKHIN Essel
1874: NEDOSHEVER Zusmn NESSIKHIN Girsh NEMOI Aron
1875: NAIMARK Leiba NAIMARK Gersel NAIMARK Aron NIDOSSOVSKI Menya
NAIMARK Elia-Vulf NAIMARK Mordukh-Leiba
1876: NEISSIKHIN Mikhel
1877: NEIMAN Ruvin NEISHTAT Essel-Girsh NAIMARK Khaim-Shloma NAIMARK Abram
NIDOSHEVER Menya NEIGAUZ Berka
1878: NAIMARK Zalman-Leiba NEUSSIKHIN Girsha (twins)
1881: NAISHTAT Shloma, NAIMARK Elia-Vulf NEISTKHIN Mikhel
1882: NEISHTAT Essel-Girsh, NIDOTEVER Zusman
1884: NIDOSHEVER Iotov (twins) NAIGAUZ Berka NAIMARK Isroil-Vulf
NAIMARK Khaim NAISHTAT Nessel
1886: NAISHTAT Shloma NAIMARK Khaim-Elia NAER Khaim NAER Leiba
NAIGAUZ Berka NAIMARK Aron-Isroil NAISHTAT shloma NAIMAN Yankel
NEDOSHEVSKI Zusman NAER Khaim
1891: NAIMARK Khaim-elia
1892: NAIMARK Vigdor NAIGAUZ Berka, NAIMARK Aron-Isroil NAISHTAT Essel-Girsh


Re: Orsha #belarus

dardasht@...
 

Orsha is, I believe, the next stop north on the train >from Mogilev. It is
relatively close to Mogilev.

Schelly TALALAY Dardashti
Mogilev city and Voratinschtina shtetl (agricultural colony established
by Baron Gunzberg/Ginsberg??? in 1830, about 18 km south southwest >from
the city): TALALAY, BERLIN, MITTLEMAN, YASIN/JASSEN, MIRLS, MERLIN,
ALTSHULER, STAROSELSKY, KORE, DISKEN, DONIN, ROGOVER, GINSBERG, and many
more.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: ALEINOKOV and others #belarus

dardasht@...
 

Subject: Re: Re: Alienikov Family
From: krefman@cybersol.com (Krefman, Stephen)


In response to the recent postings by David Brill and Schelly
Dardashti regarding the Alienikov family:

I have an ALENIKOV family tree at my home going back to a Dov Ber
ALENIKOV in the mid 1800's in Tolshin, Mogilev Gebernia and including
people killed in the holocaust and others who lived in Moscow, Russia
and in Philadelphia, PA. Related names I recall being on the tree
include NAIDOVICH and STUCKMEISTER. Much of the information came from
a recent Soviet emigree in NYC with whom I corresponded in the 1980's.
Dear Steve, the names Dov Ber, Berka or Berl (or a better transliteration
would be Berel) are nearly interchangable. Dov=Ber, both mean "bear", and
Berka and Berl are variations. Either the same person, or named after the same
ancestor, allowing for personal taste and naming fashion!!

The name "Berka" ALEINIKOFF found by Schelly Dardashti does not sound
familiar but I do recall a Beryl.

When I locate the tree, I will post it to the Belarus SIG.
That would be a big help. thanks, Steve.

Steve, I took the liberty of checking the index for your names. See below 9May
be of interest to others). Remembering our cardinal rule of being flexible in
possibilities, some are not exact, but are possible variations. Again, i took
the liberty of posting this to the group in the hope that others looking for
similar names might find something they recognize or are interested in
pursuing. Good luck to all.

Surnames of greatest interest to me in Mogilev Gebernia (or Moliver
Gebernia, as my family calls it) are:

TSELOVITZ / TILOWITS (Orsha)1873 TILES Gdalia
1874: TILES Idel
1877: TININ Shmuil
1887: TILIN Mordukh TILIn Abram-elia

ROZIN / ROSEN (Orsha)
1872: REIZIN Yankel
1873: RASSIN Meer
1873: RASSINKIN Meer (could be same as above)
1874: ROZANOV Abram-Alter ROZENBERG Shmuil (twins)
1875: ROZIN Khaim ROZINBERG Movsha ROZIN Khaim
1876: ROZMAN Isroil
1877: ROZIN Afroim ROZENGAUZ (G=H) (ROSENHAUS) Ekhil
RASSIN Dovid-Meilakh ROZINKIN Aizik
1878: ROZIN David ROZIN Borukh-Leib ROZMAN Yankel
1880: ROSSIN girsha RUSHIN Vulf ROZIN Movsha
1883: ROZENGAUZ Ekhil
1885: RISSIN Dovid
1887: ROZIN Alter ROZINBERG Meer ROZENGAUZ Ekhil ROZMAN Shmuil
1888: ROZENBAUM Movsha ROZMAN Dovid ROZMAN Dovid ROZENBAUM Movsha
1889: ROZIN Meer ROZINOV Alter
1890: ROZIN Essel (twins) ROZIN Feig
1892: RUZIN Khaya-Sora (mother is listed when father dies before birth)
ROZINKIN Abram

KRUGLOS / KRUGLOZE (Tolshin)1872: KRUKOV Gershon
1880: KRUGLYANSKI Abram-Shloma, KARUKIN Nokhim
1881: KRUGLIK Simkha-Yankel
1883: KARUKIN Nokhim
1885: KRUGLYAK Simkha-Yankel
1890: KORUKIN Nokhim


NAIDEAU / NAIDOFF / NAIDOVICH (Tolshin)1873: NEIMAN Shmuil-Essel NAIMARK Kahim-Vulf NAIMARK Zalman-Essel
NEISSIKHIN Essel
1874: NEDOSHEVER Zusmn NESSIKHIN Girsh NEMOI Aron
1875: NAIMARK Leiba NAIMARK Gersel NAIMARK Aron NIDOSSOVSKI Menya
NAIMARK Elia-Vulf NAIMARK Mordukh-Leiba
1876: NEISSIKHIN Mikhel
1877: NEIMAN Ruvin NEISHTAT Essel-Girsh NAIMARK Khaim-Shloma NAIMARK Abram
NIDOSHEVER Menya NEIGAUZ Berka
1878: NAIMARK Zalman-Leiba NEUSSIKHIN Girsha (twins)
1881: NAISHTAT Shloma, NAIMARK Elia-Vulf NEISTKHIN Mikhel
1882: NEISHTAT Essel-Girsh, NIDOTEVER Zusman
1884: NIDOSHEVER Iotov (twins) NAIGAUZ Berka NAIMARK Isroil-Vulf
NAIMARK Khaim NAISHTAT Nessel
1886: NAISHTAT Shloma NAIMARK Khaim-Elia NAER Khaim NAER Leiba
NAIGAUZ Berka NAIMARK Aron-Isroil NAISHTAT shloma NAIMAN Yankel
NEDOSHEVSKI Zusman NAER Khaim
1891: NAIMARK Khaim-elia
1892: NAIMARK Vigdor NAIGAUZ Berka, NAIMARK Aron-Isroil NAISHTAT Essel-Girsh


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Orsha #belarus

dardasht@...
 

Orsha is, I believe, the next stop north on the train >from Mogilev. It is
relatively close to Mogilev.

Schelly TALALAY Dardashti
Mogilev city and Voratinschtina shtetl (agricultural colony established
by Baron Gunzberg/Ginsberg??? in 1830, about 18 km south southwest >from
the city): TALALAY, BERLIN, MITTLEMAN, YASIN/JASSEN, MIRLS, MERLIN,
ALTSHULER, STAROSELSKY, KORE, DISKEN, DONIN, ROGOVER, GINSBERG, and many
more.


Re: Rabbi BARNETT RUDNICK #belarus

Steven Chall <steven.chall@...>
 

Might it have been Arthur KURZWEIL?

613 Steven Chall in Minneapolis, MN =[;-)
=====================================
On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:06:31 EDT BSwart10@aol.com writes:
SNIP<<

Does the name Arthur KURZWALD sound fimiliar to anyone??. Some one
called me
during the summer when I was in LA and left a message for me call
back, >>SNIP


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Rabbi BARNETT RUDNICK #belarus

Steven Chall <steven.chall@...>
 

Might it have been Arthur KURZWEIL?

613 Steven Chall in Minneapolis, MN =[;-)
=====================================
On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:06:31 EDT BSwart10@aol.com writes:
SNIP<<

Does the name Arthur KURZWALD sound fimiliar to anyone??. Some one
called me
during the summer when I was in LA and left a message for me call
back, >>SNIP


Re: STUCKMEISTER. #belarus

Botwinick@...
 

... in Philadelphia, PA. Related names I recall being on the tree ...
STUCKMEISTER. <<<

Interested in STROEKMEISTER in phila.

I have a shoemaker >from Lemberg and the Odessa area who came to Phila around
1915 leaving his family in Lemberg. Also have various materials on the
Stroekmisel name in general.

miltB
phila
botwinick@lycosmail.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: STUCKMEISTER. #belarus

Botwinick@...
 

... in Philadelphia, PA. Related names I recall being on the tree ...
STUCKMEISTER. <<<

Interested in STROEKMEISTER in phila.

I have a shoemaker >from Lemberg and the Odessa area who came to Phila around
1915 leaving his family in Lemberg. Also have various materials on the
Stroekmisel name in general.

miltB
phila
botwinick@lycosmail.com


WOLBROM data #poland

Robert Heyman <robeh@...>
 

The initial batch of Wolbrom data is now available on the Jewish
Records Indexing of Poland web site. It covers 1835-1837. Happy
searching!

Robert Heyman
robeh@mindspring.com
Wolbrom shtetl co-op coordinator


JRI Poland #Poland WOLBROM data #poland

Robert Heyman <robeh@...>
 

The initial batch of Wolbrom data is now available on the Jewish
Records Indexing of Poland web site. It covers 1835-1837. Happy
searching!

Robert Heyman
robeh@mindspring.com
Wolbrom shtetl co-op coordinator


Re: *Re: Center for Jewish History #hungary

cohentalk@...
 

I am an American who is Jewish, and I am a Jew who is an American. I don't
need any one to give me the right to be who I am. No one can take who I am
from me. I am. It doesn't matter what my name is. I am. No matter how I am
hurt, I hurt. It is not right to attempt to separate the parts that make up
the total.
I have the opinion that G-d has given us the right to be as we were born and
as what we are in our minds and hearts. So to further process my idea: If a
person is Hungarian, he is. If he is Jewish, he is. Freedom means not having
to choose between the two, nor put one first. Freedom means not having to
separate ourselves. I think people must start protecting the freedom of all
people to be who and what we want to be. What once was, was bad. Let's move
forward and empower the movement of free choice for all.
I am writing because of Tom's words. I am so sorry for what he has
experienced. I am upset that choices were forced upon him.

Regards to all,
Linda Cohen


Re: Childrens Homes #unitedkingdom

Harold Pollins <pollins@...>
 

Hardly 'A' children's home. The famous Norwood celebrated its bicentenary
in 1995 although it began under different names.

You say you want help. What help?

Harold Pollins
pollins@globalnet.co.uk
-----
A distant cousin Ben MYERS >from Liverpool UK, was sent to a childrens
home
called Norwood in London.I think in the early 1900s.
His son Morris MYERS lives in Washington USA.
Can any of you wonderful jewishgenners help me?
Thats not all: What information does an american death certificate have
on it?
Regards >from Valerie Gold. UK
RUP29 @aol.com.


Restitution in Poland #poland

Serge Rozenblum <Serge_Rozenblum@...>
 

Once again I am asking the same questions. I have received some responses=

right now asking me a lot of money . I was in Poland last year and I
know of things are working there but may be a good willing person can
help me.

I have read about the restitution of public property in Poland (as
cemetery). The cynical text point out that public office will be given
back to local jewish institution. Is this law running now? If not what
is the exact planning?
If it positive, what about small towns where there are not anymore any
jewish presence (as Grodzisk Maz around 20 km south of Warsaw)?

Last question but I don't expect answer. What are the terms & conditions
to set up in Poland a non profit association?

Many thanks,
Serge Rozenblum, Paris, France


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: *Re: Center for Jewish History #hungary

cohentalk@...
 

I am an American who is Jewish, and I am a Jew who is an American. I don't
need any one to give me the right to be who I am. No one can take who I am
from me. I am. It doesn't matter what my name is. I am. No matter how I am
hurt, I hurt. It is not right to attempt to separate the parts that make up
the total.
I have the opinion that G-d has given us the right to be as we were born and
as what we are in our minds and hearts. So to further process my idea: If a
person is Hungarian, he is. If he is Jewish, he is. Freedom means not having
to choose between the two, nor put one first. Freedom means not having to
separate ourselves. I think people must start protecting the freedom of all
people to be who and what we want to be. What once was, was bad. Let's move
forward and empower the movement of free choice for all.
I am writing because of Tom's words. I am so sorry for what he has
experienced. I am upset that choices were forced upon him.

Regards to all,
Linda Cohen