Date   

Re: Comments on the content of TE VAGY A TANU! #hungary

maja@...
 

--- On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:29:20 +0200 Stefano Groszy
<steven@Micanet.it>
wrote:
Subject: Comments on the content of TE VAGY A TANU!
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:22:33 +0200
From: Stefano Groszy <steven@Micanet.it>
To: maja@mail.netvision.net.il

Dear David and Myriam,
As I'm not expert about the details of how and why the Germans
invaded Hungary in the beginning of 1944, it would be nice if you
could explain the rule that admiral Horthy had protecting or not the
Jews.

In Italy the Mussolini's defeat by fascist government caused the
german invasion, with the consequences for italian Jews you can imagine.
On the contrary, I know that in Bulgaria the local fascists resisted
the german plans against the Jews and probably it was the only country
under german domination to save most its jewish community

My best regards, Steven Grosz - Milano, Italy.

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
Dear Steven,
Regarding your question on the role of Horthy in connection with
the Hungarian jews: Hungary in the years of 1920-1940, i.e between
the two world wars had a very strong and prosperous middle class.
(By the way, these were the richest years in the history of culture
of this country: Some of the greatest physicist, like Neumann,Wiegner,
Teller and Szilard were born and educated there, the greatest
poets like Ady, Attila Jozsef,painters like Csontvary and huge
musicians like Bartok, Kodaly, Szigeti,Szekely Mihaly and many-many
others lived and created in this period). This society was based on
two elements: the gentries, most of whome once belonged to the
nobility and were or wished to be land-owners and the other group:
the bourgeoisie.To the latter belonged the large factory owners,
the merchants and the intellectuals, like journalists, artists
and educated professionals.

The hungarian society at all was based on these two pillars. The
majority of the bourgeoisie was Jew. Just as an example, more,
than 25% of the capital Budapest was Jewish - more,than 250.000
only in the city.

Horthy himself was rather deeply involved in and connected to
both groups.One of his sons, for example, had a Jewish wife.
Under the antisemitic pressure, the government accepted anti-
Jewish laws already in the 20-th years, which became harder after
the second world war broke out.The grown up Jewish male population
was taken to forced labour camps already in 1940. There they were
treated harshly,but the authorities refused to transfer them to
Germany or to other death camps in Easter Europe. Hence the great
majority of the Jews were still free and alive till March 1944
when the Germans occupied Hungary - in spite of beeing allies.
I tend to beleive, that the Hungarian government and Horthy did not
want to take part in the genocide of the Jews, though many
Hungarians did and gave hand to the murder of some 400.000 of us.

Sorry, I tried to be shorter,but I could not.In fact, you can find
a more autentic, detailed and comprehensive description on the
subject,for instance in the book of Raphael Patai; "The Jews in
Hungary". Still,you can perhaps also feel the emotions of a survivor.

The best regards:
David
-------------------------------------
E-mail: maja@netvision.net.il
Date: 8/30/98
Time: 20:10:16

Miryam and David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: Comments on the content of TE VAGY A TANU! #hungary

maja@...
 

--- On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:29:20 +0200 Stefano Groszy
<steven@Micanet.it>
wrote:
Subject: Comments on the content of TE VAGY A TANU!
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:22:33 +0200
From: Stefano Groszy <steven@Micanet.it>
To: maja@mail.netvision.net.il

Dear David and Myriam,
As I'm not expert about the details of how and why the Germans
invaded Hungary in the beginning of 1944, it would be nice if you
could explain the rule that admiral Horthy had protecting or not the
Jews.

In Italy the Mussolini's defeat by fascist government caused the
german invasion, with the consequences for italian Jews you can imagine.
On the contrary, I know that in Bulgaria the local fascists resisted
the german plans against the Jews and probably it was the only country
under german domination to save most its jewish community

My best regards, Steven Grosz - Milano, Italy.

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
Dear Steven,
Regarding your question on the role of Horthy in connection with
the Hungarian jews: Hungary in the years of 1920-1940, i.e between
the two world wars had a very strong and prosperous middle class.
(By the way, these were the richest years in the history of culture
of this country: Some of the greatest physicist, like Neumann,Wiegner,
Teller and Szilard were born and educated there, the greatest
poets like Ady, Attila Jozsef,painters like Csontvary and huge
musicians like Bartok, Kodaly, Szigeti,Szekely Mihaly and many-many
others lived and created in this period). This society was based on
two elements: the gentries, most of whome once belonged to the
nobility and were or wished to be land-owners and the other group:
the bourgeoisie.To the latter belonged the large factory owners,
the merchants and the intellectuals, like journalists, artists
and educated professionals.

The hungarian society at all was based on these two pillars. The
majority of the bourgeoisie was Jew. Just as an example, more,
than 25% of the capital Budapest was Jewish - more,than 250.000
only in the city.

Horthy himself was rather deeply involved in and connected to
both groups.One of his sons, for example, had a Jewish wife.
Under the antisemitic pressure, the government accepted anti-
Jewish laws already in the 20-th years, which became harder after
the second world war broke out.The grown up Jewish male population
was taken to forced labour camps already in 1940. There they were
treated harshly,but the authorities refused to transfer them to
Germany or to other death camps in Easter Europe. Hence the great
majority of the Jews were still free and alive till March 1944
when the Germans occupied Hungary - in spite of beeing allies.
I tend to beleive, that the Hungarian government and Horthy did not
want to take part in the genocide of the Jews, though many
Hungarians did and gave hand to the murder of some 400.000 of us.

Sorry, I tried to be shorter,but I could not.In fact, you can find
a more autentic, detailed and comprehensive description on the
subject,for instance in the book of Raphael Patai; "The Jews in
Hungary". Still,you can perhaps also feel the emotions of a survivor.

The best regards:
David
-------------------------------------
E-mail: maja@netvision.net.il
Date: 8/30/98
Time: 20:10:16

Miryam and David Gordon
Rehovot, Israel


Re: Fekete Ardo #hungary

Thomas C. Fodor <tcfodor@...>
 

Fekete Erdo

The reason you have found nothing is this is The Black Forest (aka
Schwartzwald) which has never been in Hungary, but is in Bavaria (i.e.
Germany).


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Fekete Ardo #hungary

Thomas C. Fodor <tcfodor@...>
 

Fekete Erdo

The reason you have found nothing is this is The Black Forest (aka
Schwartzwald) which has never been in Hungary, but is in Bavaria (i.e.
Germany).


downtime #hungary

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

Hungarian SIG Members:

This is to advise you that the JewishGen servers will be serviced on Wednesday or Thursday Sept 2nd or 3rd

Downtime could be anywhere >from a couple of hours to as much as 24 hours...
depending upon the availability of "volunteers" to assist with this
process and depending on whether it is a "plug and play" situation, or if
we have some unanticipated technical problems. This will affect all
JewishGen services!!! So please bear with us! We'll be back online as
soon as we can.


Hungary SIG #Hungary downtime #hungary

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

Hungarian SIG Members:

This is to advise you that the JewishGen servers will be serviced on Wednesday or Thursday Sept 2nd or 3rd

Downtime could be anywhere >from a couple of hours to as much as 24 hours...
depending upon the availability of "volunteers" to assist with this
process and depending on whether it is a "plug and play" situation, or if
we have some unanticipated technical problems. This will affect all
JewishGen services!!! So please bear with us! We'll be back online as
soon as we can.


Re: Ellis Island Searchable Database #general

Jennifer A. Dropkin <jdropkin@...>
 

The exact database web site is www.wallofhonor.com, and www.ellisisland.org links directly to it.

I found four names of people to whom I was fairly sure I was related on the Wall of Honor.

The database can be searched, but only with exact spelling, and the location information
is only by country, which is also not standardized (but is still helpful).

I asked the Ellis Island Foundation to notify those who posted the names I was searching that I would like to
hear >from them. Of those requests, one poster declined to respond, one had moved, and two got in
touch with me. Those two posters were indeed relatives. We have reclaimed some
history and found new mysteries to research. We have become acquainted. And all it took was an
e-mail to the Ellis Island Foundation asking them to send along my name and address.

I would say that the database is worth using. It can be a long shot, but the payoff is
big.--
Jennifer Dropkin

This may be old news to many of you, but I have just discovered that the web
site:

www.ellisisland.org

has a searchable database of names on the Wall of Honor at Ellis Island. >
Shirley Flaum
Houston, Texas


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Ellis Island Searchable Database #general

Jennifer A. Dropkin <jdropkin@...>
 

The exact database web site is www.wallofhonor.com, and www.ellisisland.org links directly to it.

I found four names of people to whom I was fairly sure I was related on the Wall of Honor.

The database can be searched, but only with exact spelling, and the location information
is only by country, which is also not standardized (but is still helpful).

I asked the Ellis Island Foundation to notify those who posted the names I was searching that I would like to
hear >from them. Of those requests, one poster declined to respond, one had moved, and two got in
touch with me. Those two posters were indeed relatives. We have reclaimed some
history and found new mysteries to research. We have become acquainted. And all it took was an
e-mail to the Ellis Island Foundation asking them to send along my name and address.

I would say that the database is worth using. It can be a long shot, but the payoff is
big.--
Jennifer Dropkin

This may be old news to many of you, but I have just discovered that the web
site:

www.ellisisland.org

has a searchable database of names on the Wall of Honor at Ellis Island. >
Shirley Flaum
Houston, Texas


LA Cemeteries #general

SJBlau <sjblau@...>
 

I have a relative who died in Los Angeles in the early 1920s. Does anyone know
if there were many Jewish cemeteries in LA at that time?

Seth Blau
SJBlau@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen LA Cemeteries #general

SJBlau <sjblau@...>
 

I have a relative who died in Los Angeles in the early 1920s. Does anyone know
if there were many Jewish cemeteries in LA at that time?

Seth Blau
SJBlau@aol.com


Searching: Arthur BURNS (Washington) #general

David & Deborah Peskin <dx2etc@...>
 

I have been told that I am related to Arthur BURNS, who was Chairman of the
Board of the U.S. Federal Reserve >from 1970-1978, on my maternal
BERENZWEIG/BERNSWEIG/BERNZWEIG side of the family. The only information I
have on him came >from an encyclopedia. He was born in Stanislau, Austria in
1904 and came to the U.S. with his parents when he was 10 years old.
According to SSDI, he died in June 1987 while a resident of Washington, DC.

Does anyone know of his relatives or descendants, have any other information
on him, or suggestions as to how I can establish exactly how we are related?
The online phone directories list over 1,000 people with the last name BURNS
in the U.S., so I'm not about to start making "cold calls"! Thanks in
advance for your help.

Deborah Peskin
Longmeadow, MA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: Arthur BURNS (Washington) #general

David & Deborah Peskin <dx2etc@...>
 

I have been told that I am related to Arthur BURNS, who was Chairman of the
Board of the U.S. Federal Reserve >from 1970-1978, on my maternal
BERENZWEIG/BERNSWEIG/BERNZWEIG side of the family. The only information I
have on him came >from an encyclopedia. He was born in Stanislau, Austria in
1904 and came to the U.S. with his parents when he was 10 years old.
According to SSDI, he died in June 1987 while a resident of Washington, DC.

Does anyone know of his relatives or descendants, have any other information
on him, or suggestions as to how I can establish exactly how we are related?
The online phone directories list over 1,000 people with the last name BURNS
in the U.S., so I'm not about to start making "cold calls"! Thanks in
advance for your help.

Deborah Peskin
Longmeadow, MA


Searching: Ruth RENDELSEIN GINSBURG (Bronx,NY) #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Hi All:

I've been searching for my father's aunt, uncle, and two cousins for
MANY years. Today, I learned that the aunt and uncle (Abraham and Dora
RENDELSTEIN) are both dead, and they are buried at Mt. Moriah Cemetery,
in Fairview, NJ.

The woman at the cemetery office told me that all the information she
has was:

Ruth Rendelstein Ginsburg, residing in Bayside, NY as of Sept.
1972 (when Abe was buried). Ruth had a sister, Frances.

The family originally came >from Kozova, Galicia (now Ukraine). Abe
arrived in America in March, 1927. Dora and the two daughters arrived
in America in May, 1934. Eventually they settled in Bronx, where Abe
and Dora ran a dairy store.

Ruth was born Oct. 3, 1925, and Frances was born July 5, 1927. In
Kozova, the names of the girls were Regina and Feiga.

Does anyone out there have any knowledge of Ruth or Frances? Please
contact me privately at <rickiz@mindspring.com>

TIA,
Ricki Randall Zunk
Miami, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: Ruth RENDELSEIN GINSBURG (Bronx,NY) #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

Hi All:

I've been searching for my father's aunt, uncle, and two cousins for
MANY years. Today, I learned that the aunt and uncle (Abraham and Dora
RENDELSTEIN) are both dead, and they are buried at Mt. Moriah Cemetery,
in Fairview, NJ.

The woman at the cemetery office told me that all the information she
has was:

Ruth Rendelstein Ginsburg, residing in Bayside, NY as of Sept.
1972 (when Abe was buried). Ruth had a sister, Frances.

The family originally came >from Kozova, Galicia (now Ukraine). Abe
arrived in America in March, 1927. Dora and the two daughters arrived
in America in May, 1934. Eventually they settled in Bronx, where Abe
and Dora ran a dairy store.

Ruth was born Oct. 3, 1925, and Frances was born July 5, 1927. In
Kozova, the names of the girls were Regina and Feiga.

Does anyone out there have any knowledge of Ruth or Frances? Please
contact me privately at <rickiz@mindspring.com>

TIA,
Ricki Randall Zunk
Miami, FL


Re: Census post 1920 #general

A. E. Jordan
 

The Manhattan Public Library at 42nd Street in Manhattan has the 1925 New York
Census as well as earlier ones they tell me. Have not tried to use it yet but
they said the way to do it is take the address you have to the map room where
they will help you figure out the appropriate ED for the year, then take the
ED to the genealogy room where they will tell you the exact roll number and
then take that to microforms and voila you will have it.

Allan Jordan
aejordan@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Census post 1920 #general

A. E. Jordan
 

The Manhattan Public Library at 42nd Street in Manhattan has the 1925 New York
Census as well as earlier ones they tell me. Have not tried to use it yet but
they said the way to do it is take the address you have to the map room where
they will help you figure out the appropriate ED for the year, then take the
ED to the genealogy room where they will tell you the exact roll number and
then take that to microforms and voila you will have it.

Allan Jordan
aejordan@aol.com


Ostrov Mazowiecka #general

GrupperD <grupperd@...>
 

I am seeking information about Velvel KUKAWKA of Ostrov Mazowiecka and his wife
Feigel nee MORGENSTERN.
David Grupper, Brooklyn, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Ostrov Mazowiecka #general

GrupperD <grupperd@...>
 

I am seeking information about Velvel KUKAWKA of Ostrov Mazowiecka and his wife
Feigel nee MORGENSTERN.
David Grupper, Brooklyn, NY


Re: Siedlce, Poland??? #general

Linda Shabat <lshabat@...>
 

Yes, Siedlce in Poland was once part of the Tzarist empire up until about
1919 or 1920 at the time of the Russian Revolution. It also has a current
day web page which gives some history and other statistics of the town. It
was also the capital of the gubernaria of the same name. We have had some
experience researching that town as my family's shtetl was Kaluszyn which is
nearby.
Linda Shabat

Researching: KIRSHTEIN, SOKOL >from Kaluszyn - emigrated to US around 1920.

Does anyone know anything about this part of Poland? Specifically, was it
ever part of Russia?
Betty Feir


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Siedlce, Poland??? #general

Linda Shabat <lshabat@...>
 

Yes, Siedlce in Poland was once part of the Tzarist empire up until about
1919 or 1920 at the time of the Russian Revolution. It also has a current
day web page which gives some history and other statistics of the town. It
was also the capital of the gubernaria of the same name. We have had some
experience researching that town as my family's shtetl was Kaluszyn which is
nearby.
Linda Shabat

Researching: KIRSHTEIN, SOKOL >from Kaluszyn - emigrated to US around 1920.

Does anyone know anything about this part of Poland? Specifically, was it
ever part of Russia?
Betty Feir