Date   
Re: Stolpersteine and Memorial Plaques #germany

Stan Dub <stan.dub@...>
 

That's wonderful that you have this option, but most of us don't. My
four grandparents all perished, along with nine uncles and aunts and
many cousins. They died in assorted places, including Belzec,
Auschwitz and various ghettos. Mostly they had been taken far from
their homes and no marker records their onetime existence. The places
they came >from no longer have any Jews living there. Recording their
onetime existence by individual marker somewhere, would be much
preferable to not doing so. When I visited Vienna recently, I was
moved by the various plaques on the ground commemorating names of
victims and places they were taken from. I was not troubled by the
prospect that human feet might step on the markers. In Hollywood we
have an "Avenue of Stars" where stars with names are cast in the
cement sidewalk to commemorate movie stars and celebrities. Nobody is
outraged that someone might "step on Marilyn Monroe's marker". After
all, her bones are not there anyway, it's just symbolic.

Bottom line, we can't bring these victims back, but at least we can
take some symbolic action to commemorate their onetime existence and
the fact of their murder. Not doing this out of a sense that its
disrespectful still amounts in the end to just not doing it.

Stan Dub >from Cleveland, Ohio. stan.dub@...

Moderator Note: This discussion has moved away >from our topic and
must be cut off. Participants can continue to share their opinions
in private email.

Re: translation of German terms - Thank you! #germany

Irene Newhouse
 

Many thanks to all who responded: Nichole Heymanns, Eve Lawrence, Yissochor
Marmorstein, Daniel Nussbaum, Isabelle Selikoff, and Robert Winter!

This is a summary of the responses:

Glaette (a umlaut) litharge lead oxide (PbO). My 1905 Sachs-Villatte
(German-French) comments: "das beim Treiben ablaufende Blei-oxyd"
suggesting it's an unwanted by-product when mining lead. [Nichole Heymanns]

Blei Glaette translated as 'litharge', a word I'd never come across.
But my husband had - in connection with lead oxides. So was the
gentleman mining for those substances? Or, most likely, involved
in silver mining.
apparently litharge (= lead monoxide) is (was?) a by-product in the
separation of silver >from lead in mined ores. How about 'silver mining
by-products' as a translation? Not technically accurate, but those
processes are probably quite out-of-date. [Eve Lawrence]

I think that the above information, combined with the fact that there are
so very few search engine hits for "Bleie und Glaette" suggests the the
original document should have said "Blei Glaette", and that a clerk who
didn't know mining technical terms copied it or transcribed it incorrectly
at some= point in the history of the document.

Umschlagsverwalter means Shipping Manager [Daniel Nussbaum]

Umschlagsverwalter = kind of private secretary or man of business
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoffer_Gabel at the end of the 1st
paragraph when Gabel followed Frederick to Cph it says in the German
wikipedia that he became his Umschlagsverwalter
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoffer_von_Gabel second paragraph
in the section 'Fr=C3=BChe Karriere bei Frederick') [Robert Winter]

Vortstandmitgleider means Executive Board Member [Daniel Nussbaum]
Rabbinatsassessor = assistant rabbi or rabbinical judge (cf.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/religion/5178524-rabbinatsasses=
sor.html) [Robert Winter]

Rabbinatsassessor, is the term used for a "Dayan" meaning a rabbinical judge,
a member of the Beth Din (Rabbinical Court) or rabbi qualified to rule on
questions of Jewish law (but not THE rabbi of the community).
[Yissochor Marmorstein]

Thanks so much for your help!! Irene Newhouse, Kihei HI einew137@...

German SIG #Germany Re: Stolpersteine and Memorial Plaques #germany

Stan Dub <stan.dub@...>
 

That's wonderful that you have this option, but most of us don't. My
four grandparents all perished, along with nine uncles and aunts and
many cousins. They died in assorted places, including Belzec,
Auschwitz and various ghettos. Mostly they had been taken far from
their homes and no marker records their onetime existence. The places
they came >from no longer have any Jews living there. Recording their
onetime existence by individual marker somewhere, would be much
preferable to not doing so. When I visited Vienna recently, I was
moved by the various plaques on the ground commemorating names of
victims and places they were taken from. I was not troubled by the
prospect that human feet might step on the markers. In Hollywood we
have an "Avenue of Stars" where stars with names are cast in the
cement sidewalk to commemorate movie stars and celebrities. Nobody is
outraged that someone might "step on Marilyn Monroe's marker". After
all, her bones are not there anyway, it's just symbolic.

Bottom line, we can't bring these victims back, but at least we can
take some symbolic action to commemorate their onetime existence and
the fact of their murder. Not doing this out of a sense that its
disrespectful still amounts in the end to just not doing it.

Stan Dub >from Cleveland, Ohio. stan.dub@...

Moderator Note: This discussion has moved away >from our topic and
must be cut off. Participants can continue to share their opinions
in private email.

German SIG #Germany re: translation of German terms - Thank you! #germany

Irene Newhouse
 

Many thanks to all who responded: Nichole Heymanns, Eve Lawrence, Yissochor
Marmorstein, Daniel Nussbaum, Isabelle Selikoff, and Robert Winter!

This is a summary of the responses:

Glaette (a umlaut) litharge lead oxide (PbO). My 1905 Sachs-Villatte
(German-French) comments: "das beim Treiben ablaufende Blei-oxyd"
suggesting it's an unwanted by-product when mining lead. [Nichole Heymanns]

Blei Glaette translated as 'litharge', a word I'd never come across.
But my husband had - in connection with lead oxides. So was the
gentleman mining for those substances? Or, most likely, involved
in silver mining.
apparently litharge (= lead monoxide) is (was?) a by-product in the
separation of silver >from lead in mined ores. How about 'silver mining
by-products' as a translation? Not technically accurate, but those
processes are probably quite out-of-date. [Eve Lawrence]

I think that the above information, combined with the fact that there are
so very few search engine hits for "Bleie und Glaette" suggests the the
original document should have said "Blei Glaette", and that a clerk who
didn't know mining technical terms copied it or transcribed it incorrectly
at some= point in the history of the document.

Umschlagsverwalter means Shipping Manager [Daniel Nussbaum]

Umschlagsverwalter = kind of private secretary or man of business
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoffer_Gabel at the end of the 1st
paragraph when Gabel followed Frederick to Cph it says in the German
wikipedia that he became his Umschlagsverwalter
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoffer_von_Gabel second paragraph
in the section 'Fr=C3=BChe Karriere bei Frederick') [Robert Winter]

Vortstandmitgleider means Executive Board Member [Daniel Nussbaum]
Rabbinatsassessor = assistant rabbi or rabbinical judge (cf.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/religion/5178524-rabbinatsasses=
sor.html) [Robert Winter]

Rabbinatsassessor, is the term used for a "Dayan" meaning a rabbinical judge,
a member of the Beth Din (Rabbinical Court) or rabbi qualified to rule on
questions of Jewish law (but not THE rabbi of the community).
[Yissochor Marmorstein]

Thanks so much for your help!! Irene Newhouse, Kihei HI einew137@...

summer 1944 Lodz Ghetto deportation to Auschwitz #poland #lodz

Ariel K <arielvfu@...>
 

we are looking for any information in regards to our g, grandfather
who was sent >from Ghetto Lodz to Auschwitz in 1944 (probably in
August) where he perished.

Is there any list of the 1944 Lodz deportees that have survived the war?

kind regards
Ariel Kubi

Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland summer 1944 Lodz Ghetto deportation to Auschwitz #lodz #poland

Ariel K <arielvfu@...>
 

we are looking for any information in regards to our g, grandfather
who was sent >from Ghetto Lodz to Auschwitz in 1944 (probably in
August) where he perished.

Is there any list of the 1944 Lodz deportees that have survived the war?

kind regards
Ariel Kubi

RE Stolpersteine not to be walked on #germany

Gunther Steinberg <gunste24@...>
 

" ....In 2004, Munich's City Council said they did not want to
commemorate the victims on the 'dirty streets' and that memorials should not
be 'walked over'. Representatives of the Jewish community are also divided
about the Stolpersteine. ..."

Of course there is an alternative. What remains of the Jewish
Quarter of Venice has memorial plaques set into walls.
A very nice solution which makes that site worth visiting.

Gunther Steinberg, Portola Valley CA gunste24@...

German SIG #Germany RE Stolpersteine not to be walked on #germany

Gunther Steinberg <gunste24@...>
 

" ....In 2004, Munich's City Council said they did not want to
commemorate the victims on the 'dirty streets' and that memorials should not
be 'walked over'. Representatives of the Jewish community are also divided
about the Stolpersteine. ..."

Of course there is an alternative. What remains of the Jewish
Quarter of Venice has memorial plaques set into walls.
A very nice solution which makes that site worth visiting.

Gunther Steinberg, Portola Valley CA gunste24@...

Re: Munich Stolperstein #germany

Peter Bein <thinkbig@...>
 

I had mixed feelings when I dedicated a Stolperstein for my grandmother
in Leipzig, Germany, in 2010. As those in Munich, I too had reservations
about pedestrians walking on the memorial stone. However, my grandmother
was murdered at Belzec and had no burial stone, so her good name
"disappeared" >from the earth. The Stolperstein is a way to give back
an identity, returning names to those anonymous victims.

Peter Bein, Atlanta, GA thinkbig@...

German SIG #Germany Re: Munich Stolperstein #germany

Peter Bein <thinkbig@...>
 

I had mixed feelings when I dedicated a Stolperstein for my grandmother
in Leipzig, Germany, in 2010. As those in Munich, I too had reservations
about pedestrians walking on the memorial stone. However, my grandmother
was murdered at Belzec and had no burial stone, so her good name
"disappeared" >from the earth. The Stolperstein is a way to give back
an identity, returning names to those anonymous victims.

Peter Bein, Atlanta, GA thinkbig@...

Fatal Genetic Disease #bessarabia

Amex-IMAP <sbgoody@...>
 

Dear Genners,

You are an incredible group of people who are always willing to help another Genner. My family needs
your help now - today, tomorrow and Sunday morning.

Our 18-year-old grandniece was diagnosed with Niemann Pick Type C Disease (NPC) three years ago.
You probably never heard of this disease. It is a very rare and deadly neurodegenerative disease that
primarily strikes children before or during adolescence.

Niemann Pick Type C is FATAL! Our Samantha will die unless new treatment or a cure is found very soon.

NCAA basketball coaches have come together for the 5th Annual INFINITI COACH CHARITY
CHALLENGE to raise funds for various charities.

PURDUE Coach Matt Painter is raising funds for NPC research. We are asking you, no, begging you to
vote right now - ONCE TODAY, FRIDAY, ONCE TOMORROW, SATURDAY, and ONCE ON SUNDAY BEFORE
NOON EASTERN TIME. You must be a USA citizen and 18 years of age or older. The charity with the
most votes will win $100,000 for research.

Here's the link: please cut and paste if you have to:
promo.espn.go.com/espn/contests/infiniti/2015/index?next=home

Please register with ESPN if the prompt asks you to Login.
VOTE FOR PURDUE'S COACH MATT PAINTER.

Don't be misled. Coach Painter's photo lists The Smith Family Break Thru Fund as his charity. This is
NPC. The Smith family has lost 2 children to NPC and one is wheelchair bound and in his last stage of NPC.
A real tragedy.

Please, please vote once today, once tomorrow and before noon on Sunday (Eastern time).

Sally Goodman
Palm Springs, CA
sbgoody@...
MODERATOR NOTE - While this has little to do with the Bessarabia Discussion Group, and technically
violates our listserv guidelines, the Moderator is posting this message because of the immediate urgency
of the situation, and the feelings that would be evoked if it was summarily rejected.

Bessarabia SIG #Bessarabia Fatal Genetic Disease #bessarabia

Amex-IMAP <sbgoody@...>
 

Dear Genners,

You are an incredible group of people who are always willing to help another Genner. My family needs
your help now - today, tomorrow and Sunday morning.

Our 18-year-old grandniece was diagnosed with Niemann Pick Type C Disease (NPC) three years ago.
You probably never heard of this disease. It is a very rare and deadly neurodegenerative disease that
primarily strikes children before or during adolescence.

Niemann Pick Type C is FATAL! Our Samantha will die unless new treatment or a cure is found very soon.

NCAA basketball coaches have come together for the 5th Annual INFINITI COACH CHARITY
CHALLENGE to raise funds for various charities.

PURDUE Coach Matt Painter is raising funds for NPC research. We are asking you, no, begging you to
vote right now - ONCE TODAY, FRIDAY, ONCE TOMORROW, SATURDAY, and ONCE ON SUNDAY BEFORE
NOON EASTERN TIME. You must be a USA citizen and 18 years of age or older. The charity with the
most votes will win $100,000 for research.

Here's the link: please cut and paste if you have to:
promo.espn.go.com/espn/contests/infiniti/2015/index?next=home

Please register with ESPN if the prompt asks you to Login.
VOTE FOR PURDUE'S COACH MATT PAINTER.

Don't be misled. Coach Painter's photo lists The Smith Family Break Thru Fund as his charity. This is
NPC. The Smith family has lost 2 children to NPC and one is wheelchair bound and in his last stage of NPC.
A real tragedy.

Please, please vote once today, once tomorrow and before noon on Sunday (Eastern time).

Sally Goodman
Palm Springs, CA
sbgoody@...
MODERATOR NOTE - While this has little to do with the Bessarabia Discussion Group, and technically
violates our listserv guidelines, the Moderator is posting this message because of the immediate urgency
of the situation, and the feelings that would be evoked if it was summarily rejected.

Connection between R' Shmuel LANDAU and KANTOR/KANTOROVITZ of Karlin #general

Yonatan Ben-Ari
 

We have a family oral tradition of being descendants of R' Chaim of
Volozhin. The tradition relates that my ancestress, Sarah Hinda
(SHATZ/KANTOR) was the link to R'Chaim.

Sarah Hinda, her father was a Shat"z in Karlin in the mid 19th cent.
so it is not sure if he /they were called Shat"z after his profession
or was their formal name. One scribbled note mentions Shmuel LANDAU,
who was a son-in-law of R' Itzaleh son of R'Chaim of Volozhin. There
is another scribbled note stating that Sarah Hinda was a descedant of
R' Chaim but giving no exact connection.

Two other family oral traditions are that Sarah Hinda was orphaned at
a young age and that R' Itzaleh "took" her to her Chupa (wedding). It
seems that Shmuel LANDAU and his wife (a daughter of R' Itzaleh) died
young, making the above case even stronger. A second "rumor" is that
the Rav of Yahud, R' Mordechai Gimple YAFFE, who's father had studied
in Volozhin, told one of my cousins that he knows that we are
descendants of R' Chaim of Volozhin. As this cousin has long deceased,
and this rumor also does not specify an exact link to R' Chaim.

May be the most well known families that are descendant with me and
through them came these "rumors" are R"chaim Dov KANTOR
(KANOTOROVITZ?) a well known early settler in Moshav Shfeya and nearby
Zichron Yacov, (he was the Mashgiach of the Yekev in Zichron and close
to Rav Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen KOOK) and his son-in-law Nachum
WEISFISH (who was murdered by Arabs in the 1920s).

If anyone knows of the above and can confirm these family
traditions/rumors I would love to hear >from you. I would also
appreciate it if this e-mail could be passed on to a member of the
WEISFISH family who may be able to confirm the above details.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Connection between R' Shmuel LANDAU and KANTOR/KANTOROVITZ of Karlin #general

Yonatan Ben-Ari
 

We have a family oral tradition of being descendants of R' Chaim of
Volozhin. The tradition relates that my ancestress, Sarah Hinda
(SHATZ/KANTOR) was the link to R'Chaim.

Sarah Hinda, her father was a Shat"z in Karlin in the mid 19th cent.
so it is not sure if he /they were called Shat"z after his profession
or was their formal name. One scribbled note mentions Shmuel LANDAU,
who was a son-in-law of R' Itzaleh son of R'Chaim of Volozhin. There
is another scribbled note stating that Sarah Hinda was a descedant of
R' Chaim but giving no exact connection.

Two other family oral traditions are that Sarah Hinda was orphaned at
a young age and that R' Itzaleh "took" her to her Chupa (wedding). It
seems that Shmuel LANDAU and his wife (a daughter of R' Itzaleh) died
young, making the above case even stronger. A second "rumor" is that
the Rav of Yahud, R' Mordechai Gimple YAFFE, who's father had studied
in Volozhin, told one of my cousins that he knows that we are
descendants of R' Chaim of Volozhin. As this cousin has long deceased,
and this rumor also does not specify an exact link to R' Chaim.

May be the most well known families that are descendant with me and
through them came these "rumors" are R"chaim Dov KANTOR
(KANOTOROVITZ?) a well known early settler in Moshav Shfeya and nearby
Zichron Yacov, (he was the Mashgiach of the Yekev in Zichron and close
to Rav Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen KOOK) and his son-in-law Nachum
WEISFISH (who was murdered by Arabs in the 1920s).

If anyone knows of the above and can confirm these family
traditions/rumors I would love to hear >from you. I would also
appreciate it if this e-mail could be passed on to a member of the
WEISFISH family who may be able to confirm the above details.

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem

Re: Places of origin of British Jews #unitedkingdom

jeremy frankel
 

David Grant posed the question:
1) You state that early records were not kept "for entries into Hull
and Leith, and other places on the British North Sea coast". Is this
a fact or have the records just not been released yet?

The answer is that the records do not exist. One has to bear in mind
the vast, vast majority of immigrants entering the United Kingdom
during the 19th century were transiting through en-route to another
destination such as Canada, the United States, Australia, South
Africa, etc. This being the case there was no need let alone desire
for the UK Government to hold on to these records any longer than was
necessary.

A few years ago I was researching the UK Government immigration
sub-committee reports >from about the 1870s. These make for
fascinating reading with people like Rothschild and Montefiore asking
all kinds of questions of people who actually worked at the ports.
These port staff readily admitted that there were lists and these
were sent on to London but were routinely destroyed after a while.

Back then the government was not interested in names but numbers. It
was all a matter of statistics and knowing what the "flow-rate" was
so to speak. How many people were coming, where >from and where they
were going to. These answers can be seen in the various reports these
sub-committees published.

David Grant then commented:
"However after a certain length of time the powers that be just gave
everyone British citizenship if they had been in UK for any length of
time. There were no actual naturalisation forms filled."

Me here: I'm not sure this is really correct. Naturalisation was a
privilege conferred on people (as is most things in life) so I don't
think that after some time it was just willy-nilly handed out.

The most important reason people naturalised is so that they could
vote and have a voice in the running of the country - just like I did
when I became a US citizen. Otherwise there is no difference in what
an American-born person can do and what I can do. The only difference
is voting.

I would like to see evidence >from David showing how his ancestors
became citizens without filling out the various forms.

One last thing; yes, Ancestry has scanned the naturalisation records
for the period 1870-1912 and placed them online. However these are
just the "A" records. There is a subsidiary set, the "B" records
which provide other details - witnesses attesting to the worth of the
applicant. And in the case of my four Koenigsberg relatives (whose
documents I acquired over 20 years ago) includes the Metropolitan
Police report.

I hope this explanation is of some use.

Jeremy Frankel
--
Jeremy G Frankel
ex-London, England
now Folsom, CA

Searching for:
FRANKEL: Plock, Poland; London, England
GOLDRATH/GOLD: Praszka, Poland; London, England
KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania; London, England; NY, USA
LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland; London, England
Pinkus, Poland; London, England
PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland; London, England; NY, USA

JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: Places of origin of British Jews #unitedkingdom

jeremy frankel
 

David Grant posed the question:
1) You state that early records were not kept "for entries into Hull
and Leith, and other places on the British North Sea coast". Is this
a fact or have the records just not been released yet?

The answer is that the records do not exist. One has to bear in mind
the vast, vast majority of immigrants entering the United Kingdom
during the 19th century were transiting through en-route to another
destination such as Canada, the United States, Australia, South
Africa, etc. This being the case there was no need let alone desire
for the UK Government to hold on to these records any longer than was
necessary.

A few years ago I was researching the UK Government immigration
sub-committee reports >from about the 1870s. These make for
fascinating reading with people like Rothschild and Montefiore asking
all kinds of questions of people who actually worked at the ports.
These port staff readily admitted that there were lists and these
were sent on to London but were routinely destroyed after a while.

Back then the government was not interested in names but numbers. It
was all a matter of statistics and knowing what the "flow-rate" was
so to speak. How many people were coming, where >from and where they
were going to. These answers can be seen in the various reports these
sub-committees published.

David Grant then commented:
"However after a certain length of time the powers that be just gave
everyone British citizenship if they had been in UK for any length of
time. There were no actual naturalisation forms filled."

Me here: I'm not sure this is really correct. Naturalisation was a
privilege conferred on people (as is most things in life) so I don't
think that after some time it was just willy-nilly handed out.

The most important reason people naturalised is so that they could
vote and have a voice in the running of the country - just like I did
when I became a US citizen. Otherwise there is no difference in what
an American-born person can do and what I can do. The only difference
is voting.

I would like to see evidence >from David showing how his ancestors
became citizens without filling out the various forms.

One last thing; yes, Ancestry has scanned the naturalisation records
for the period 1870-1912 and placed them online. However these are
just the "A" records. There is a subsidiary set, the "B" records
which provide other details - witnesses attesting to the worth of the
applicant. And in the case of my four Koenigsberg relatives (whose
documents I acquired over 20 years ago) includes the Metropolitan
Police report.

I hope this explanation is of some use.

Jeremy Frankel
--
Jeremy G Frankel
ex-London, England
now Folsom, CA

Searching for:
FRANKEL: Plock, Poland; London, England
GOLDRATH/GOLD: Praszka, Poland; London, England
KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania; London, England; NY, USA
LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland; London, England
Pinkus, Poland; London, England
PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland; London, England; NY, USA

Re: Places of origin of British Jews #unitedkingdom

Richard Cooper
 

David Grant on 10 March stated "after a certain length of time the
powers that be just gave everyone British citizenship if they had been
in UK for any length of time."
Well, that's a new one on me.
My father's stepfather Zalman GOLDBAND came to England in 1912 aged 20.
He spent WWI flitting >from place to place to avoid being called up or deported.
For most of WWII he was nervous about the same thing happening, with
the added bonus that deportation would have guaranteed his death as a
Jew in Nazi-occupied Lithuania.
He died in 1972 aged 80 after 60 years in the British Isles during
which time he was never offered the peace of mind of becoming a
British citizen.

Best wishes and happy ancestor-spotting,
Richard Cooper (NB: Not related to any COOPERs!)
Midhurst, UK
MILLET, ENGELBERG, BLUMENKEHL, SUSSWEIN, WACKS & PITERZIL >from Tarnow,
Dabrowa Tarnowska and Lezajsk
LEZTER, SALENDER, RINENBERG, EISEN & KRAETTER >from Rzeszow and Kolbuszowa
YAROSHEVSKY, SHAPOCHNIKOW & GRANITUR >from Odessa and Zlatopol/Novomirgorod
LEWINSTEIN >from Berdichev
ADLER, FINKELSTEIN, PARYLLE, WEINTRAUB & ZILZ >from Tarnopol and Trembowla
BORENSTEIN, MATELEVITCH,GODZINSKIJ & ZIMNOWICZ and >from Warsaw and Radun

JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: Places of origin of British Jews #unitedkingdom

Richard Cooper
 

David Grant on 10 March stated "after a certain length of time the
powers that be just gave everyone British citizenship if they had been
in UK for any length of time."
Well, that's a new one on me.
My father's stepfather Zalman GOLDBAND came to England in 1912 aged 20.
He spent WWI flitting >from place to place to avoid being called up or deported.
For most of WWII he was nervous about the same thing happening, with
the added bonus that deportation would have guaranteed his death as a
Jew in Nazi-occupied Lithuania.
He died in 1972 aged 80 after 60 years in the British Isles during
which time he was never offered the peace of mind of becoming a
British citizen.

Best wishes and happy ancestor-spotting,
Richard Cooper (NB: Not related to any COOPERs!)
Midhurst, UK
MILLET, ENGELBERG, BLUMENKEHL, SUSSWEIN, WACKS & PITERZIL >from Tarnow,
Dabrowa Tarnowska and Lezajsk
LEZTER, SALENDER, RINENBERG, EISEN & KRAETTER >from Rzeszow and Kolbuszowa
YAROSHEVSKY, SHAPOCHNIKOW & GRANITUR >from Odessa and Zlatopol/Novomirgorod
LEWINSTEIN >from Berdichev
ADLER, FINKELSTEIN, PARYLLE, WEINTRAUB & ZILZ >from Tarnopol and Trembowla
BORENSTEIN, MATELEVITCH,GODZINSKIJ & ZIMNOWICZ and >from Warsaw and Radun

Traveling alone in Poland at 15 year old / Zakopane ski resort #general

Marc <marcrys@...>
 

Dear all,

Mieczyslaw RYSZFELD (>from Warszaw) is listed as a visitor (guest) of the
Polish ski resort of Zakopane in 1929 (link:
http://mbc.malopolska.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=82259&dirids=1 ).

The scarcity of the Ryszfeld family name (only in Warszaw with this
spelling) as well as the first name being very unusual among the Warszaw
branch lead me to think it may be the same person as Mecislas Ryszfeld, a
21y old student of weaving in 1935 in western France (Mulhouse). The latter
is listed in the school archives as being born in 1914.

Were they the same persons, Mieczyslaw Ryszfeld would have been 15 or 15 and
a half year old...

Would such a teenager travel alone on "holiday" to a ski resort 500km away
from Warszaw in the early 20th c. ?
Would it be a possible way to France through (current) Slovaquia Austria
etc... ? Actually, looking at a map, this way leads directly to the above
French border city of Mulhouse. But then winter is probably not the best of
times.

Was it usual procedure at that time for a winter resort's journal to list
supposedly unknown visitors as well as their place of residence in the
resort? Zakopane seems to have been quite in fashion as a train access dates
back to 1899, and 1st ski-jump 1925.

Thank you for your ideas.

As a side theme, I own the 1935 class photo >from the Mulhouse weaving
school, but then all members on the picture able to recognize Mecislas would
be above 100yr old today...

Marc Ryszfeld
Paris, France
Searching RYSZFELD. CHAYETTE. DON (Vilno). STOCZYK (Warszaw)

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Traveling alone in Poland at 15 year old / Zakopane ski resort #general

Marc <marcrys@...>
 

Dear all,

Mieczyslaw RYSZFELD (>from Warszaw) is listed as a visitor (guest) of the
Polish ski resort of Zakopane in 1929 (link:
http://mbc.malopolska.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=82259&dirids=1 ).

The scarcity of the Ryszfeld family name (only in Warszaw with this
spelling) as well as the first name being very unusual among the Warszaw
branch lead me to think it may be the same person as Mecislas Ryszfeld, a
21y old student of weaving in 1935 in western France (Mulhouse). The latter
is listed in the school archives as being born in 1914.

Were they the same persons, Mieczyslaw Ryszfeld would have been 15 or 15 and
a half year old...

Would such a teenager travel alone on "holiday" to a ski resort 500km away
from Warszaw in the early 20th c. ?
Would it be a possible way to France through (current) Slovaquia Austria
etc... ? Actually, looking at a map, this way leads directly to the above
French border city of Mulhouse. But then winter is probably not the best of
times.

Was it usual procedure at that time for a winter resort's journal to list
supposedly unknown visitors as well as their place of residence in the
resort? Zakopane seems to have been quite in fashion as a train access dates
back to 1899, and 1st ski-jump 1925.

Thank you for your ideas.

As a side theme, I own the 1935 class photo >from the Mulhouse weaving
school, but then all members on the picture able to recognize Mecislas would
be above 100yr old today...

Marc Ryszfeld
Paris, France
Searching RYSZFELD. CHAYETTE. DON (Vilno). STOCZYK (Warszaw)