Date   

Re: steamship tickets from Europe to America #general

Ruth Price
 

Dear Genners:

I can document my ancestors'' trip >from Antwerp to Ellis Island.
How did they get >from their homes to Antwerp? Did the steamship lines,
i.e., the Red Star Line, offer rail tickets to get to Antwerp for migrants
like my grandparents who were >from Vilna? They lived inside the Pale of
Settlement in the first decade of the twentieth century so that they
could not leave the area easily? If so, how did the steam ship lines
get through the border of the Pale of Settlement? Did they negotiate, bribe?

Is there any documentation available on this?

Ruth Price
New York City
Rprice02@hotmail.com


snip.......Has anyone heard of this? It may solve the mystery of how my mother got
to Antwerp to board the Vaderland to take her to Ellis Island.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: steamship tickets from Europe to America #general

Ruth Price
 

Dear Genners:

I can document my ancestors'' trip >from Antwerp to Ellis Island.
How did they get >from their homes to Antwerp? Did the steamship lines,
i.e., the Red Star Line, offer rail tickets to get to Antwerp for migrants
like my grandparents who were >from Vilna? They lived inside the Pale of
Settlement in the first decade of the twentieth century so that they
could not leave the area easily? If so, how did the steam ship lines
get through the border of the Pale of Settlement? Did they negotiate, bribe?

Is there any documentation available on this?

Ruth Price
New York City
Rprice02@hotmail.com


snip.......Has anyone heard of this? It may solve the mystery of how my mother got
to Antwerp to board the Vaderland to take her to Ellis Island.


VIKSTENSAS / GOLDSTEJN / MARCHAND French family #general

A S Goldberg
 

I am trying to make contact with descendants of the late Albert VIKSTENSAS
and Sonia nee GOLDSTEJN. The family had Bialystok connections pre-WW2 but
later settled in Paris. Years ago I was in contact with a daughter in Paris
whose family name was MARCHAND, but the contact has been lost.

I would greatly appreciate hearing >from any member of this family or anyone
who can give me current contact information. Please respond to me direct to
alancomm@netmedia.net.il

Many thanks

Abraham Goldberg
Jerusalem


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen VIKSTENSAS / GOLDSTEJN / MARCHAND French family #general

A S Goldberg
 

I am trying to make contact with descendants of the late Albert VIKSTENSAS
and Sonia nee GOLDSTEJN. The family had Bialystok connections pre-WW2 but
later settled in Paris. Years ago I was in contact with a daughter in Paris
whose family name was MARCHAND, but the contact has been lost.

I would greatly appreciate hearing >from any member of this family or anyone
who can give me current contact information. Please respond to me direct to
alancomm@netmedia.net.il

Many thanks

Abraham Goldberg
Jerusalem


Re: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What is the difference? #bessarabia

Igor Holyboroda
 

I agree concerning difference between "selo" and "derevnya" in Russian
in the past (before October revolt of 1917 period). At the same time
concerning difference in national approach (Ukrainian vs Russian) to
"selo" and "derevnya"
see please:

http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE

Regards,
Igor Holyboroda


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What is the difference? #ukraine

Igor Holyboroda
 

I agree concerning difference between "selo" and "derevnya" in Russian
in the past (before October revolt of 1917 period). At the same time
concerning difference in national approach (Ukrainian vs Russian) to
"selo" and "derevnya"
see please:

http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE

Regards,
Igor Holyboroda


Selo and Derevnya #ukraine

Herbert Lazerow
 

Barry,
<Anyone know what the difference is between a "selo" and a "derevnya"?
Various web sites translate both as "village". In Duma voters lists from
1905 and 1906 both appear with town names. Is one bigger than the other?
Is there some defining difference? The voters list compilers note them
specifically for certain towns so I assume was a difference.>
I looked it up at some point; derevnya was defined as a tiny village;
selo was defined as a village with a church.
I suspect that each place was officially designated by the Russian
government at some point as one or the other. It may have changed its
qualities, but that did not necessarily mean that the classification would
change without some action on the part of the administration.
There was also sloboda, village on a highway, and poselok, a small
village. I have no idea what the difference might be between a poselok
and a derevnya, or how big the road through town needed to be to qualify
as a sloboda.

Bert
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Selo and Derevnya #ukraine

Herbert Lazerow
 

Barry,
<Anyone know what the difference is between a "selo" and a "derevnya"?
Various web sites translate both as "village". In Duma voters lists from
1905 and 1906 both appear with town names. Is one bigger than the other?
Is there some defining difference? The voters list compilers note them
specifically for certain towns so I assume was a difference.>
I looked it up at some point; derevnya was defined as a tiny village;
selo was defined as a village with a church.
I suspect that each place was officially designated by the Russian
government at some point as one or the other. It may have changed its
qualities, but that did not necessarily mean that the classification would
change without some action on the part of the administration.
There was also sloboda, village on a highway, and poselok, a small
village. I have no idea what the difference might be between a poselok
and a derevnya, or how big the road through town needed to be to qualify
as a sloboda.

Bert
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego


selo and derevnya #ukraine

yankele34@...
 

Subject: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What
is the difference?
From: bechernick1@juno.com (Barry Chernick of Bellevue, WA)



You may refer to the information given in Wikipedia (russian), that I
will translate here

In Russia, before 1917 revolution, there was a clear distinction between
selo and derevnya. To be named selo the place had to have a church, so
that the selo was the centre of an orthodox parish, that might include
some neighbouring villages (derevnya).
After 1917 that distinction ceased to be official, nevertheless, in the
majority of cases, the fact that the "populated spot" is called selo
refers to the fact that at least in the past the place had a church with
a steeple or something, church tower, or something equivalent in russian
orthodox architecture.
It seems that english vocabulary does not allow to translate that
distinction, possibly you could use "big village" for selo, but that is
not very satisfactory.

Jean-Gérard Sender, Paris
looking for Lekakh (Kherson), Jack (Nikolaev, Odessa)


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine selo and derevnya #ukraine

yankele34@...
 

Subject: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What
is the difference?
From: bechernick1@juno.com (Barry Chernick of Bellevue, WA)



You may refer to the information given in Wikipedia (russian), that I
will translate here

In Russia, before 1917 revolution, there was a clear distinction between
selo and derevnya. To be named selo the place had to have a church, so
that the selo was the centre of an orthodox parish, that might include
some neighbouring villages (derevnya).
After 1917 that distinction ceased to be official, nevertheless, in the
majority of cases, the fact that the "populated spot" is called selo
refers to the fact that at least in the past the place had a church with
a steeple or something, church tower, or something equivalent in russian
orthodox architecture.
It seems that english vocabulary does not allow to translate that
distinction, possibly you could use "big village" for selo, but that is
not very satisfactory.

Jean-Gérard Sender, Paris
looking for Lekakh (Kherson), Jack (Nikolaev, Odessa)


Re: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What is the difference? #bessarabia

Igor Holyboroda
 

Both words are close synonyms. There are no difference in dimensions.
As for me, word "selo" has Ukrainian character. In Ukrainian "village"
is also "selo". "derevnya" is completely Russian word. So "selo" may
have been used to denote village in Ukrainian area or by Ukrainian
speaking person/ethnic Ukrainian.

Regards,
Igor Holyboroda,
Lviv-Lwow-Lemberg, Ukraine


Barry Chernick of Bellevue, WA wrote, in part:

...Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What
is the difference? ...


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What is the difference? #ukraine

Igor Holyboroda
 

Both words are close synonyms. There are no difference in dimensions.
As for me, word "selo" has Ukrainian character. In Ukrainian "village"
is also "selo". "derevnya" is completely Russian word. So "selo" may
have been used to denote village in Ukrainian area or by Ukrainian
speaking person/ethnic Ukrainian.

Regards,
Igor Holyboroda,
Lviv-Lwow-Lemberg, Ukraine


Barry Chernick of Bellevue, WA wrote, in part:

...Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What
is the difference? ...


The Miller's of Marjiampole or Ludvinovas #lithuania

bette_sscf <bette_sscf@...>
 

Dr. Jack Miller wrote: "I am trying to track my family origins in Lithuania.
The surname Miller doesn't appear on any of the passenger lists coming into
Canada... There are no Millers in the Marjampole lists that I could find.
They obviously had a European name, which was lost (one uncle thought it
might have been Milarsky another Midlarsky but that gets me nowhere."

After deciding that I would never know my MILLER relative's original surname
or his ancestral town in Galicia, surprisingly I discovered (>from a
previously unknown relative of his) that his original surname was MELLER!
Now why didn't I think of that? And I discovered his ancestral town in
Galicia.

Lithuania might be a different story and you might want to check
"A Dictionary of Jewish Surnames >from the Russian Empire, Revised
Edition" by Dr. Alexander Beider. Volume 2 lists spelling variants based
on the Daitch-Mokotoff Soundex System and Volume 1 lists the etymology
and towns where surnames were found.

Surnames in the Russian Empire with D-M Soundex code 689000 were MAJLER,
MALEER, MALER, MALIER, MALLER, MALYAR, MEJLER, MEJLLER, MELER, MELLER,
MILER, MILIR, MILLER, MILLYAR, MILYAR, MULAR, MULER, MULLER, MULLYAR,
MULYAR, MYULLER, NOLER, NOLLER, NULER, NULLER.

Since Marijampole and Liudvinavas were in Suwalki province, presumably you
are a member of LitvakSIG's Suwalki Gubernia Research Group.

You should also list yourself as a MILLER >from Marijampole and Liudvinavas
researcher in JewishGen Family Finder.

Bette Stoop Mas
USA


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania The Miller's of Marjiampole or Ludvinovas #lithuania

bette_sscf <bette_sscf@...>
 

Dr. Jack Miller wrote: "I am trying to track my family origins in Lithuania.
The surname Miller doesn't appear on any of the passenger lists coming into
Canada... There are no Millers in the Marjampole lists that I could find.
They obviously had a European name, which was lost (one uncle thought it
might have been Milarsky another Midlarsky but that gets me nowhere."

After deciding that I would never know my MILLER relative's original surname
or his ancestral town in Galicia, surprisingly I discovered (>from a
previously unknown relative of his) that his original surname was MELLER!
Now why didn't I think of that? And I discovered his ancestral town in
Galicia.

Lithuania might be a different story and you might want to check
"A Dictionary of Jewish Surnames >from the Russian Empire, Revised
Edition" by Dr. Alexander Beider. Volume 2 lists spelling variants based
on the Daitch-Mokotoff Soundex System and Volume 1 lists the etymology
and towns where surnames were found.

Surnames in the Russian Empire with D-M Soundex code 689000 were MAJLER,
MALEER, MALER, MALIER, MALLER, MALYAR, MEJLER, MEJLLER, MELER, MELLER,
MILER, MILIR, MILLER, MILLYAR, MILYAR, MULAR, MULER, MULLER, MULLYAR,
MULYAR, MYULLER, NOLER, NOLLER, NULER, NULLER.

Since Marijampole and Liudvinavas were in Suwalki province, presumably you
are a member of LitvakSIG's Suwalki Gubernia Research Group.

You should also list yourself as a MILLER >from Marijampole and Liudvinavas
researcher in JewishGen Family Finder.

Bette Stoop Mas
USA


Jette HAUSER BUEHLER #germany

Lin <lin2@...>
 

Dear GerSIG Friends,
So many of you have been so helpful to me, I am hoping this document
that has come into my possession will be helpful to someone. A gentleman
from Germany contacted me not long ago. He collects memorabilia and
history about the Jewish people >from the area of Germany where my
grandmother and her parents come >from (Noerdlingen, Markelsheim,
Kleinerdlingen- and I'm not sure where else). He thought a document he
owns might belong to my great-great grandmother Jette ROSENBERGER
BUEHLER. However, when he sent a scan and translation to me, I knew this
document could not be the handwriting of my Jette BUEHLER, because the
person in question is ordering more silver for her silver service, and
my great-great grandparents were impoverished.

However, the date is not long after a distant relative got married and
his wife was Jette HAUSER BUEHLER. Benedict "Benno" BUEHLER was a horse
trader and may have had the money to buy more silver to match their
silver service.

I am hoping someone out there is related to Benno and Jette Buehler, as
this postcard is in Jette's handwriting. I only wish it was my Jette
BUEHLER as it would be thrilling to me to have something with her handwriting.

Lin Herz Palm Bay, Florida


German SIG #Germany Jette HAUSER BUEHLER #germany

Lin <lin2@...>
 

Dear GerSIG Friends,
So many of you have been so helpful to me, I am hoping this document
that has come into my possession will be helpful to someone. A gentleman
from Germany contacted me not long ago. He collects memorabilia and
history about the Jewish people >from the area of Germany where my
grandmother and her parents come >from (Noerdlingen, Markelsheim,
Kleinerdlingen- and I'm not sure where else). He thought a document he
owns might belong to my great-great grandmother Jette ROSENBERGER
BUEHLER. However, when he sent a scan and translation to me, I knew this
document could not be the handwriting of my Jette BUEHLER, because the
person in question is ordering more silver for her silver service, and
my great-great grandparents were impoverished.

However, the date is not long after a distant relative got married and
his wife was Jette HAUSER BUEHLER. Benedict "Benno" BUEHLER was a horse
trader and may have had the money to buy more silver to match their
silver service.

I am hoping someone out there is related to Benno and Jette Buehler, as
this postcard is in Jette's handwriting. I only wish it was my Jette
BUEHLER as it would be thrilling to me to have something with her handwriting.

Lin Herz Palm Bay, Florida


Help Needed at Conference SHARE Fair #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

If you are going to be at the IAJGS Conference in Salt Lake City and =
have time to spare on Sunday afternoon, I need a volunteer to help out =
at the H-SIG table at the SHARE Fair. I=92ll be at the H-SIG table so =
just drop by.
In the event that we have sufficient hands on deck, just come by to say =
hello!

Vivian
----------------
Vivian Kahn, Oakland, California
Hungarian SIG Coordinator
JewishGen Vice President, SIG Relations
<vkahn@kmort.com>


Hungary SIG #Hungary Help Needed at Conference SHARE Fair #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

If you are going to be at the IAJGS Conference in Salt Lake City and =
have time to spare on Sunday afternoon, I need a volunteer to help out =
at the H-SIG table at the SHARE Fair. I=92ll be at the H-SIG table so =
just drop by.
In the event that we have sufficient hands on deck, just come by to say =
hello!

Vivian
----------------
Vivian Kahn, Oakland, California
Hungarian SIG Coordinator
JewishGen Vice President, SIG Relations
<vkahn@kmort.com>


Re: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What is the difference? #bessarabia

Yefim Kogan
 

To JewishGen researchers,
To Barry,

I am replying to JewishGen Discussion Group and also to Bessarabia SIG
Discussion group - that is an interesting subject.

Formally speaking there is a difference in terms "selo" and "derevnya", and
that is that "selo" locality has at least one church.... and usually selo is
bigger. Although people were using "selo" and "derevnya" in many cases
interchangeably.

The localities were majority of Jews used to live in 19 century never used
terms "selo" or "derevnya", but "mestechko"... it is sort of small town with
businesses, shops, etc. and these were almost exclusively Jewish.

Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Leader and Coordinator


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Russian "selo" and "derevnya" both translate as village. What is the difference? #general

Yefim Kogan
 

To JewishGen researchers,
To Barry,

I am replying to JewishGen Discussion Group and also to Bessarabia SIG
Discussion group - that is an interesting subject.

Formally speaking there is a difference in terms "selo" and "derevnya", and
that is that "selo" locality has at least one church.... and usually selo is
bigger. Although people were using "selo" and "derevnya" in many cases
interchangeably.

The localities were majority of Jews used to live in 19 century never used
terms "selo" or "derevnya", but "mestechko"... it is sort of small town with
businesses, shops, etc. and these were almost exclusively Jewish.

Yefim Kogan
Bessarabia SIG Leader and Coordinator

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