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Gussie HERZTIEL/HERSTEIN
#austria-czech
#poland
GILDA OLDHAM
I want to go back past my 2nd great grandmother, Gussie SCHOENHERTZ. I have tried to research on JewishGen, JRI-Poland and Gesher-Galicia but I cannot get information to confirm. I do not know how the names translate to Austria/Poland.
Records indicate Gussie was born 12/15/1871 in Galicia Austria. She died in Manhattan, NY on 2/19/1947. I have her death certificate and her parents are listed as Chaskall HERSTEIN and Rachael RABINOWITZ, but on her grave stone it says her father was named Dov Ber. Some names from other records show her as Gossi, Augusta, Gossie. Two birth records for her babies have her maiden name as HERZTIEL. I match DNA with a HERSTEL, but his grandfather was adopted and he does not have any information. She immigrated to NY from Bremen Germany on 9/14/1900. She filled out a Declaration of Intent on 6/15/1921 and her Petition of Naturalization was filed out 6/23/1923. . She was married to Sam/Osais SCHONHERTZ who immigrated to NY in 1900. My question is this (aside from if you can help me) if I cannot find anything from the above sites, does that mean there is nothing that I can get to go back generations? Thank you for your time, Gilda Oldham Boca Raton, FL
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JewishGen will offer a new writing course, “Sharing Your Stories – Writing Short Family Narratives.” July 13 – August 2
#announcements
#JewishGenUpdates
Marion Werle
Have you been working on your family history and now want to share your stories?
The objective of this class is to provide the opportunity to write a report of limited scope that you can complete within a short timeframe. The course will offer tips on how to add interest to your chosen story, and will cover the mechanics of writing and genealogical best practices to create an effective report. Requirements: Students must be comfortable using computers and have 8-10 hours per week to read the lessons, participate in the Forum and work on your report. Classes are taught in a private forum, open 24/7. Tuition for this course is $150. for three weeks More information: https://www.jewishgen.org/educ To Register: https://www.jewishgen.org/educ Class size is limited and enrollment will close when course is full. Please send any questions to course instructor Marion Werle. canadagenes@...
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Re: Warsaw pre-1939 districts: Orla str. and Kr
#holocaust
#warsaw
hadassahlipsius
All of the surviving 1915, Warszawa Birth records have been indexed and are live and searchable on the JRI-Poland database.
That means Birth records for districts - I, V and VI See the JRI-Poland inventory https://jri-poland.org/psa/psawarszawa.htm Hadassah Lipsius JRI-Poland - Warszawa Leader Jri-poland.org
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Molly Staub
Hi Nancy, I think you're referring to the collection housed at Temple University:
https://digital.library.temple.edu/digital/custom/blitzsteinbank
A digital collection of forty-four ledgers that record the sale of tickets by steamship agents operating in Philadelphia in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The four agents represented in this collection, M.L. Blitzstein & Co., M. Rosenbaum & Co., Pennsylvania Company for Banking and Trust, and Rosenbluth Brothers, are a mix of private immigrant and state run banks, and travel agencies. The steamship ticket purchase ledgers are document the purchase of tickets for passage to and from America primarily for the purposes of immigration, Passengers were booked to arrive at various ports including New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Baltimore. Molly Arost Staub
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Adam Turner
Thanks to those who took the time to carefully read and respond to the specific question I posed.
Here is the additional bit I alluded to in my first message: Virtually none of my family on this side lived in Atlanta in the mid-1930s. Most either lived in far southern Georgia or northern Florida, with a handful of branches outside of those two states. The only occasions when I think it was typical for them to be in Atlanta were when they were either there briefly on business (they may have made buying trips there to stock their clothing stores, although my sense is that it was more typical for them to go to New York for this purpose) or when they were there to attend college.
There is one member of my family who I know lived around there at this time. She was born in 1909 and sometime in the early 1930s, she and her husband moved to a town about 35 miles outside of Atlanta. From my prior research, I knew that in 1936, she had childbirth-related complications (eclampsia) from her first delivery that eventually caused her death after a hospital stay of about six weeks. I have the death certificate for her premature baby, who only lived a day or so, and her own, from about three weeks later.
I went back and looked at the certificates this week, and realized that all of this ordeal happened in the same Atlanta hospital where my Mystery Baptist DNA match's birth announcement says that they were born. The timeline went something like this (I am intentionally obscuring the actual exact dates for privacy reasons):
April 1936: my relative enters the hospital
May 17: her baby is delivered
May 18: her baby dies
June 3: she dies, as well
June 11: The Atlanta Constitution runs a personal item apparently about a baby shower for the Mystery Baptist's mother, thrown by members of her church
July 27: the same newspaper runs another personal item announcing Mystery Baptist's birth on July 23.
I found one study on preterm pre-eclampsia that suggests that it is about nine times more common in the cases of multiple pregnancies than with singletons. So while some number-crunching suggests I should still be very cautious before assuming multiple births in this case, I am wondering if what happened could have been something like this:
My relative was actually carrying twins. She delivered them prematurely, and one could not be saved. The other twin was the Mystery Baptist, and against all odds, they survived despite their mother's death. But her husband, in his grief, could not cope with the idea of being a single father. In the days after her death, he opted to give the surviving child up for adoption. The hospital and adoption agency informed MB's adoptive parents, and after a brief interval to plan the particulars, their church friends threw a shower for them. A month or so later, MB was thriving well enough to be brought home, and that is when they announced the birth in the newspaper.
(Another piece that may support this adoption hypothesis is that as far as I can tell, the Mystery Baptist is an only child. Their parents married in 1930 and at least by the time of the 1940 census, it doesn't appear that they had any other children.)
A fascinating coincidence at least! Unfortunately, there are several significant facts (particularly, the details of the available DNA evidence) that cast doubt on this adoption scenario being how it really happened.
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Molly Staub
Hi Nancy, I think you are referring to the banks located in Philadelphia which handled all American-paid tickets:
See https://digital.library.temple.edu/digital/custom/blitzsteinbank
A digital collection of forty-four ledgers that record the sale of tickets by steamship agents operating in Philadelphia in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The four agents represented in this collection, M.L. Blitzstein & Co., M. Rosenbaum & Co., Pennsylvania Company for Banking and Trust, and Rosenbluth Brothers, are a mix of private immigrant and state run banks, and travel agencies. The steamship ticket purchase ledgers are document the purchase of tickets for passage to and from America primarily for the purposes of immigration, Passengers were booked to arrive at various ports including New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Baltimore. Molly Arost Staub
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Sherri Bobish
Hi Nancy, Could you be thinking of this database? Philadelphia Bank Immigrant Passage Records, 1890-1949 https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/1366/ Regards, Sherri Bobish Princeton, NJ
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Chasing a Mystery in Philly, and Looking for Puzzle Pieces: Abraham Louis Snader
#usa
Eric Ellman
Greetings, My wife's family has only recently learned that my wife's grandfather (Abraham Louis Snader) was briefly married before his marriage to my wife's grandmother. This is a surprise. The first marriage did NOT end in the death of the first wife. What I know: Eric J. Ellman
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Ralph Baer
The gravestone of my great-grandfather Moritz Gunzenhäuser in Memmelsdorf in Unterfranken in Bavaria designates him as the son of his mother instead of the son of his father as is usual. See line 7 of the Hebrew here http://www.steinheim-institut.de/cgi-bin/epidat?id=mmd-99 or the picture of the stone linked near the bottom of that page. This is mentioned in the comments there also.
There is no indication on Moritz’s birth, marriage, or death records that he was illegitimate, and I have not been told he was by any of his other descendants. Has anyone seen this before? I have seen many which mention both parents, but none for a legitimate child which only mentions the mother. Can anyone give an explanation? The best I could come up with is that Yitle rhymed with the previous two lines, and that isn’t too good an explanation.
I do not need an English translation.
-- Ralph N. Baer RalphNBaer@... Washington, DC
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Re: Warsaw pre-1939 districts: Orla str. and Kr
#holocaust
#warsaw
Michael Turnbull
I have just found two commercial directories of 1916 that locate Adolf Tarnower at Orla 5, so that must be where his son Olek was born in 1915! Thanks very much for your help!
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Mt Sinai Hospital Section in Cypress Hills Cemetery, NY
#usa
azigraeber@...
An ancestor of mine died in 1895 and was buried in the Mt Sinai section of Cypress Hills Cemetery in Queens. According to the Mount Sinai Archives: "Initially plots to bury indigent patients were donated to the Hospital by Jewish congregations and benevolent societies. In June 1878, land was acquired in Cypress Hills Cemetery for Mount Sinai through the efforts of Samuel M. Schafer, Esq. There were 110 lots, measuring 20 x 20. Most of the 20th century correspondence relates to the management and upkeep of the cemetery plots." The hospital placed simple gravestones at the head of each plot stating only the grave number and name. It seems that later (some) families, when they could afford one, came back and placed fuller horizontal tombstones on top of the graves. Most of the hospital's stones are illegible after years of weather beating against the slate engravings and only a few of the fuller tombstones are uncovered enough to be read. Many of them have sunk leaving only a few words or letters visible and presumably there are many more completely covered by dirt and grass. The cemetery office does not have a plot map with names or records detailing who was interred in which grave. Mount Sinai's archive provided me with a society map, but this too has no names on it.
I have visited the section numerous times trying to spot a name or some words indicating which plot is my ancestors but have been unsuccessful.
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Re: Looking for any information on family name Zaubler/Zobler/Ziegler/Seidler moved to NY before WWII originally from Poland / Vienna
#galicia
#austria-czech
#poland
Shelley Mitchell
My 3rd ggreat grandmother, Reisie ZIEGLER, was born in Zurawno, L’vivs’ka. Her daughter, Etie GOLDSCHEIN, was born in Skala-Podilskaya, Ternopil. If this helps.
-- Shelley Mitchell, NYC shemit@... Searching for TERNER, GOLDSCHEIN, KONIGSBERG, SCHONFELD, in Kolomyya; PLATZ, in Delaytn; and TOPF, in Radautz and Kolomea.
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Linda Cantor
JDC - American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee - See https://archives.jdc.org/. There are 329 results for Finkelstein. And as a JDC volunteer, I can tell you that we have indexed many Remittance Lists - lists of funds that went people, mostly in Eastern Europe.
Good luck.
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Baby birth/death records from 1910’s and 20’s New York — Doctor scandal —
#general
Stuart Ungar
Is there a way to get birth records from New York from about the 1920s? My grandparents (Eisenberg) had two children prior to having my mom and my uncle. Both supposedly died shortly after birth. I heard from family members that the delivering doctor was later found out to be selling babies. If that is true, I could have some cousins out there that I don’t know but would love to find. If there were birth records for these “deceased” babies would it even have the delivering doctor’s name? Unfortunately it is a real puzzle w/o many clues right now.
Appreciate any thoughts! - Stuart UNGAR
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Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island"
#names
polly.goldberg@...
This fascinates me. My great-grandfather's last name in Russia was Bershadsky (I know this because of family stories and a calling card from Russia that I have). After Ellis Island, it was Berg! My grandmother said that her father was always annoyed because he liked his original name. He didn't know that he could have reassumed it until many years later, when he decided that it would be too much of a hassle. I don't remember that an official was specifically blamed, but the name was changed somehow, and he didn't just acquiesce.
So, what happened?? --Polly Goldberg
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Travel from Buchach to USA transmigrating via United Kingdom
#unitedkingdom
Murray Sperber
I am trying to figure a time line on my father and his family's travel
to the US via Ellis Island, arriving February 22, 1921. His passport has a stamp "American Consulate General at Warsaw, Poland Jan 10 1921". On the "Transmigrants" roster for the Cunard line the family departed Southampton on February 15, 1921. I am trying to construct a time line from January 10, 1921 to February 15, 1921. According to Google Maps today the trip from Buchach to Warsaw would take about 8 hours. I have no idea what it would have been, most likely by train, in 1921. According to the transmigrants roster the family arrived in the UK at the Port of Hull on the steamship line "Wilsons", no arrival date for Hull. According to some research I'v done there were agents who took care of the passport, or was it necessary for the immigrant to physically go to the Consulate? Is it possible that the family would travel to Warsaw, then back to Buchach to leave a few weeks later for the departure port? The Wilson line traveled primarily between Scandinavian ports and the UK. I have been unable to find any passenger lists for the Wilson line. Another question I have is what was the most likely port of embarkation? Murray S. Sperber Los Angeles, CA Researching SPERBER, Yazlovitz
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US Supreme Court to Hear Case involving German Jewish Art Dealers Whose Ancestors Forced to Sell religious Art to Nazis; French Court Rules Painting Looted During Holocaust Belongs to Jewish Collector
#holocaust
#france
#germany
#hungary
#usa
Jan Meisels Allen
On July 2 the US Supreme Court agreed to hear a case during the 2020-2021 session regarding descendants of a group of Jewish art dealers from Germany who say their ancestors were forced to sell a collection of religious art to the Nazi Government in 1935. The justices will decide whether the dispute involving foreign citizens suing a foreign government belongs in US courts. A lower court allowed the case to go forward, but Germany asked the US Supreme Court to weigh in.
The justices also took a case involving Hungarian nationals suing Hungary over property taken from them during World War II.
The German case stems from 1935, when Nazi leader Hermann Göring allegedly forced a consortium of Jewish art dealers in Frankfurt to sell a trove of Prussian religious artifacts for a fraction of its value. Most of the art dealers fled Germany; one who remained soon died. In November 1935, Göring presented the collection, known as the Welfenschatz or Guelph Treasure, to Hitler as a gift. Heirs of the art dealers, including several U.S. citizens, sued to recover the property, currently held by a museum in Berlin.
According to a story in the Wall Street Journal,” The heirs applied for restitution in Germany, but a panel set up to review such claims said it found no evidence the sale was forced. “The lack of demand and the lower purchase price in comparison with earlier estimates can be attributed to the world economic crisis and not to the repression of Jewish art dealers by the National Socialist government,” the panel said. The heirs then filed suit in federal court. “The Nazis viewed the Welfenschatz as an Aryan treasure, and they were disgusted that it was held by Jews,” the plaintiffs’ brief says.
Generally, foreign governments can’t be sued in US courts but Congress has made several exceptions including for state sponsors of terrorism and acts of expropriation that violate international law. Germany argues that international law doesn’t prohibit foreign governments from expropriating property of their own nationals. Since the Jewish victims lived in Germany—although Jews were stripped of German citizenship by the 1935 Nuremberg laws—it argues that it cannot be sued in the U.S.
In the Hungarian suit, 14 Hungarian Jews who survived the Holocaust, including four who now are American citizens, sued Hungary and its state-owned railway, MAV, to recover property confiscated from Jews who were shipped to death camps. US Judge Patricia Millett said, “In 1944 alone, a concentrated campaign by the Hungarian government marched nearly half a million Jews into Hungarian railroad stations, stripped them of all their personal property and possessions, forced them onto trains, and transported them to death camps like Auschwitz, where 90% of them were murdered upon arrival,.”
To read more see: https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-to-decide-federal-courts-authority-over-claims-from-overseas-atrocities-11593717050
The Wall Street Journal is a subscription newspaper. Other news media have also reported on the case but not with the same detail. If you are not able to access the Wall Street Journal try:
In the French case a French appeals court ruled a painting looted during the Holocaust belongs to a Jewish collector and should be returned to the family of the collector, Simon Bauer. The 1887 painting called La Cueillette des Pois (“Picking Peas”) by Camille Pissarro that was looted from a Jewish collector during World War II and the Holocaust.
During World War ll the Vichy Regime collaborated with the Nazis and stole 93 paintings from Bauer. Some paintings but not all were returned to Bauer not including La Cueillette des Pois.
The two Americans who purchased the painting claimed they did not know the painting was stolen when they bought it in New York for $800,000 in 1995. The Tolls, who purchased the painting, is the chairman of the holding company which own the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily News newspapers.
Jan Meisels Allen Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
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Need help to locate family in Mukachevo-Munkacs
#ukraine
Toivykahan@...
I am trying to get some information on Abraham Friedman he lived in Mukachevo and died there in 1983 He is buried in the new Jewish cemetery
how can I find more info on him? i would like to find out if he had kids?
Thanks in Advance.
Toivy Kahan
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Looking for descendants of Mordke And Sarah Weiss from Lodz or Klwow Poland
#poland
stephen cohen
A branch of my kolatnik family from Lodz and Klwow, Poland came to NYC in 1910. Two siblings Sarah Kolatnik (born 1890) and Lejbus Kolatnik (born 1894).
Sarah Kolatnik married Mordke Weiss in Klwow, Poland in 1910. According to their ship manifest in 1910 to NYC they from left Brzeziny Poland and were going to 88 E 3rd St in Manhattan to stay with a cousin, Nathan Weiss. Two weeks later Lejbus Kolatnik came to NYC and was going to stay with his brother in law Mordke Weiss at the same address 88 E 3 rd St. Any thoughts on how to trace this family in the US. Having difficulty finding them in census records. Difficulty is that Lejbus Kolatnik likely changed his name to something like Louis or leonard or Larry Cohen. (Other branches of my Kolatnik family changed the surname to Cohen) and not sure what name Mordke Weiss would have gone by in NYC as well. Maybe Morris or max? Stephen Cohen
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parents as "cousins" on Ancestry.com
#dna
Hello all. Has anyone else had the experience of finding their parents identified as "cousins" on Ancestry.com? Mine are on the threshold between 4th-6th and 5th-8th at 20 cm shared over 5 segments. The shared matches cover multiple branches of their families. Perhaps if you take any two people of Eastern European Jewish ancestry there is a non-trivial likelihood that they will show up as "cousins." On the other hand, I have found that in every case of a documentable third cousin or third cousin once removed, Ancestry correctly identifies the relationship if it does not understate it.
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