Date   
Leadership Change #latvia

Michael Eliastam <eliastamm@...>
 

Dear Colleagues:

In response to my recent email posting to the Latvia SIG list-serve
about our future, I have received only two on-line responses >from
members I have never met before. If this tepid response >from the
list-serve readership is representative, it tends to confirm that
the future of our SIG is far >from assured.

I received "an offer I could not refuse" >from Henry Blumberg of
Toronto, long an active member of Latvia SIG in several leadership
roles over the years, and recently appointed as a member of the
JewishGen Board of Governors. Henry has offered to assume the
coordinating role of the Latvia SIG this month, including developing
the SIG program for the IAJGS Conference in Boston.
I have accepted his offer, and will remain involved to help him
as needed. Henry's email address is < henry@... >.

Barry Shay currently and generously serves as interim treasurer
and I hope he will continue in that role.

Now, I have been reminded by one of our stalwarts that any decision
to change the SIG fundamentally lies with JewishGen, and not the SIG,
but I hope a robust discussion >from now till the Boston meeting will
give some advice to JewishGen as to the direction it should take.

Be well
Michael Eliastam
Weston, near Boston

MODERATOR NOTE: Please send feedback directly to Michael (and Henry
Blumberg) rather than to the list. Michael and Henry can post summaries
of the feedback they receive and are encouraged to pass the information
along to JewishGen leadership. In that way, the list will remain
focused on genealogy rather than on logistics, which are generally
offtopic on JewishGen lists.

Latvia SIG #Latvia Leadership Change #latvia

Michael Eliastam <eliastamm@...>
 

Dear Colleagues:

In response to my recent email posting to the Latvia SIG list-serve
about our future, I have received only two on-line responses >from
members I have never met before. If this tepid response >from the
list-serve readership is representative, it tends to confirm that
the future of our SIG is far >from assured.

I received "an offer I could not refuse" >from Henry Blumberg of
Toronto, long an active member of Latvia SIG in several leadership
roles over the years, and recently appointed as a member of the
JewishGen Board of Governors. Henry has offered to assume the
coordinating role of the Latvia SIG this month, including developing
the SIG program for the IAJGS Conference in Boston.
I have accepted his offer, and will remain involved to help him
as needed. Henry's email address is < henry@... >.

Barry Shay currently and generously serves as interim treasurer
and I hope he will continue in that role.

Now, I have been reminded by one of our stalwarts that any decision
to change the SIG fundamentally lies with JewishGen, and not the SIG,
but I hope a robust discussion >from now till the Boston meeting will
give some advice to JewishGen as to the direction it should take.

Be well
Michael Eliastam
Weston, near Boston

MODERATOR NOTE: Please send feedback directly to Michael (and Henry
Blumberg) rather than to the list. Michael and Henry can post summaries
of the feedback they receive and are encouraged to pass the information
along to JewishGen leadership. In that way, the list will remain
focused on genealogy rather than on logistics, which are generally
offtopic on JewishGen lists.

Re: Finding whether 2 men are related #dna

elanc@...
 

Hanna Grossman wrote:

"Someone has turned up sharing my (relatively unusual) maiden name,
but >from whose family going back 5 generations no tie has been
established. Would comparing his Y DNA with that of my brother be
able to say whether they are related? More than that they are both
German Jews? How many comparison points would be needed? Which
company is most appropriate to use for this? What else would I
need to know to get this going?"

Yes, a Y-DNA test would be perfect for testing whether your brother
and the other person, who share the same surname, are related through
their paternal line of ancestors. I did exactly the same thing a few
years ago and found to my disappointment that another person with the
same surname was not related to me - he had an entirely different
haplogroup which means that we didn't share a common direct male line
ancestor going back several thousand years at least.

I took the test at Family Tree DNA, which lets you test 12, 25, 37, or
67 Y-DNA markers. For your purpose, if that's all you want to know, a
12 or 25 marker test should be sufficient. You can expect to get
either a perfect or almost perfect match if there is a family
relationship, or most likely no match at all if you aren't related. I
began with a 37 marker test and later upgraded to 67 because once I
knew something and could identify some potential matches I was greatly
tempted to learn more.

Rather than the Y-DNA test, you can take an autosomal DNA test (Family
Finder) yourself and compare it to the other person. The results will
probably be much more ambiguous. It's something that would be done if
the only people who can be tested do not share potential male ancestors.
In your case the Y-DNA test is much more powerful.

Elan Caspi
El Cerrito, CA

DNA Research #DNA Re: Finding whether 2 men are related #dna

elanc@...
 

Hanna Grossman wrote:

"Someone has turned up sharing my (relatively unusual) maiden name,
but >from whose family going back 5 generations no tie has been
established. Would comparing his Y DNA with that of my brother be
able to say whether they are related? More than that they are both
German Jews? How many comparison points would be needed? Which
company is most appropriate to use for this? What else would I
need to know to get this going?"

Yes, a Y-DNA test would be perfect for testing whether your brother
and the other person, who share the same surname, are related through
their paternal line of ancestors. I did exactly the same thing a few
years ago and found to my disappointment that another person with the
same surname was not related to me - he had an entirely different
haplogroup which means that we didn't share a common direct male line
ancestor going back several thousand years at least.

I took the test at Family Tree DNA, which lets you test 12, 25, 37, or
67 Y-DNA markers. For your purpose, if that's all you want to know, a
12 or 25 marker test should be sufficient. You can expect to get
either a perfect or almost perfect match if there is a family
relationship, or most likely no match at all if you aren't related. I
began with a 37 marker test and later upgraded to 67 because once I
knew something and could identify some potential matches I was greatly
tempted to learn more.

Rather than the Y-DNA test, you can take an autosomal DNA test (Family
Finder) yourself and compare it to the other person. The results will
probably be much more ambiguous. It's something that would be done if
the only people who can be tested do not share potential male ancestors.
In your case the Y-DNA test is much more powerful.

Elan Caspi
El Cerrito, CA

Re: Finding whether 2 men are related #dna

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

Dear Hanna,

The Y-chromosome can not tell how close two persons are related. There is
a 18.2% chance of a mutation >from father to son using the 37 markers that
Family Tree DNA are using. That means for fifth cousins only have about
11% chance of being a perfect match. That is less of a chance than being
4 or more differ. The most useful results >from Y-chromosome testing is
when two persons are not in the same haplogroup on the paternal lines.
Then they are not related and you can stop looking for the connection.

You also asked which is the best company to have the testing done. In my
view, Family Tree DNA. They have the largest data base of Ashenazi Jews
which allows for the most matches. They also have projects which are very
useful. Join as many project are possible, especially haplogroups
projects since you are looking back into the time frame when surnames were
taken and bothers may have got different ones. How many markers? I would
say 37 which is the number I found to be most useful for the haplogroup
project I run.

Sidney Sachs
Lorton, VA
Haplogroup: J2b2e (J2 with DYS 455<9)

From: Hanna Grossman <hannakg@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:41:36 -0500

I have a general vague idea that using Y chromosome DNA it is
possible to say whether, or to what degree 2 men are related.

Someone has turned up sharing my (relatively unusual) maiden name, but
from whose family going back 5 generations no tie has been
established. Would comparing his Y DNA with that of my brother be able
to say whether they are related? More than that they are both German
Jews? How many comparison points would be needed? Which
company is most appropriate to use for this? What else would I
need to know to get this going?

Or can you do with DNA not >from Y?

DNA Research #DNA Re: Finding whether 2 men are related #dna

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

Dear Hanna,

The Y-chromosome can not tell how close two persons are related. There is
a 18.2% chance of a mutation >from father to son using the 37 markers that
Family Tree DNA are using. That means for fifth cousins only have about
11% chance of being a perfect match. That is less of a chance than being
4 or more differ. The most useful results >from Y-chromosome testing is
when two persons are not in the same haplogroup on the paternal lines.
Then they are not related and you can stop looking for the connection.

You also asked which is the best company to have the testing done. In my
view, Family Tree DNA. They have the largest data base of Ashenazi Jews
which allows for the most matches. They also have projects which are very
useful. Join as many project are possible, especially haplogroups
projects since you are looking back into the time frame when surnames were
taken and bothers may have got different ones. How many markers? I would
say 37 which is the number I found to be most useful for the haplogroup
project I run.

Sidney Sachs
Lorton, VA
Haplogroup: J2b2e (J2 with DYS 455<9)

From: Hanna Grossman <hannakg@...>
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:41:36 -0500

I have a general vague idea that using Y chromosome DNA it is
possible to say whether, or to what degree 2 men are related.

Someone has turned up sharing my (relatively unusual) maiden name, but
from whose family going back 5 generations no tie has been
established. Would comparing his Y DNA with that of my brother be able
to say whether they are related? More than that they are both German
Jews? How many comparison points would be needed? Which
company is most appropriate to use for this? What else would I
need to know to get this going?

Or can you do with DNA not >from Y?

Re: Finding whether 2 men are related #dna

sbloom@...
 

from the limited information provided, yes, YDNA would be the way to
go if you can find a male who has that same surname as your maiden name.
It has to be a male >from that line, since ydna is only possessed by
males, and also, the test only sees whether this dna is passed >from
male to male along the direct male line (father's father's father's
father's father, etc).

So, say you are related to a male named PUMPERNICKEL. You find
another man named PUMPERNICKEL, and want to see if related via the
same male line ancestor who presumably passed on the name. In this
case, YDNA is the way to go.

How many comparison points? It makes sense to start with the least.
That way, if you aren't related, just say thanks. and part ways.
If you show a relationship on 12 markers, you might just want to
immediately go to 67 or even 111, so you can see the maximum extent
of the relationship. For this test, I'd go with Family Tree DNA.

You can test for a general relationship between any two people >from
any line whatsoever by using autosomal dna (dna >from the other
chromosomes besides Y and X). Family Tree DNA and also 23andme both
have good tests for this (but if you get Y test >from FTDNA
and also want autosomal, just do both with FTDNA). The FTDNA tests
if called Family Finder.

In my estimation though, it is much more difficult to interpret
autosomal results, even if a close relationship is shown (and one
was expected). Thats because said person can still related to you
in more than one way. Without quite a lot of testing of different
lines, its dificult to know how such a person relates to you, for
sure.

As for German Jews...well, if you match to other German Jews, that
might be the best way to know whether you are specifically >from
Germany, if thats what you are interesting in finding out. Otherwise,
studying how Jews and others originate >from specific areas has proven
to be difficult to determine for recent times (deeper origins have
shown better results).

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia

I have a general vague idea that using Y chromosome DNA it is
possible to say whether, or to what degree 2 men are related.

Someone has turned up sharing my (relatively unusual) maiden name,
but >from whose family going back 5 generations no tie has been
established. Would comparing his Y DNA with that of my brother be
able to say whether they are related? More than that they are both
German Jews? How many comparison points would be needed? Which
company is most appropriate to use for this? What else would I
need to know to get this going?

Or can you do with DNA not >from Y?

I've been reading the posts on this site for a year ( as well as
quite a few books and articles) without knowing how to proceed.

Hanna Grossman
Cornwall, CT

DNA Research #DNA Re: Finding whether 2 men are related #dna

sbloom@...
 

from the limited information provided, yes, YDNA would be the way to
go if you can find a male who has that same surname as your maiden name.
It has to be a male >from that line, since ydna is only possessed by
males, and also, the test only sees whether this dna is passed >from
male to male along the direct male line (father's father's father's
father's father, etc).

So, say you are related to a male named PUMPERNICKEL. You find
another man named PUMPERNICKEL, and want to see if related via the
same male line ancestor who presumably passed on the name. In this
case, YDNA is the way to go.

How many comparison points? It makes sense to start with the least.
That way, if you aren't related, just say thanks. and part ways.
If you show a relationship on 12 markers, you might just want to
immediately go to 67 or even 111, so you can see the maximum extent
of the relationship. For this test, I'd go with Family Tree DNA.

You can test for a general relationship between any two people >from
any line whatsoever by using autosomal dna (dna >from the other
chromosomes besides Y and X). Family Tree DNA and also 23andme both
have good tests for this (but if you get Y test >from FTDNA
and also want autosomal, just do both with FTDNA). The FTDNA tests
if called Family Finder.

In my estimation though, it is much more difficult to interpret
autosomal results, even if a close relationship is shown (and one
was expected). Thats because said person can still related to you
in more than one way. Without quite a lot of testing of different
lines, its dificult to know how such a person relates to you, for
sure.

As for German Jews...well, if you match to other German Jews, that
might be the best way to know whether you are specifically >from
Germany, if thats what you are interesting in finding out. Otherwise,
studying how Jews and others originate >from specific areas has proven
to be difficult to determine for recent times (deeper origins have
shown better results).

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia

I have a general vague idea that using Y chromosome DNA it is
possible to say whether, or to what degree 2 men are related.

Someone has turned up sharing my (relatively unusual) maiden name,
but >from whose family going back 5 generations no tie has been
established. Would comparing his Y DNA with that of my brother be
able to say whether they are related? More than that they are both
German Jews? How many comparison points would be needed? Which
company is most appropriate to use for this? What else would I
need to know to get this going?

Or can you do with DNA not >from Y?

I've been reading the posts on this site for a year ( as well as
quite a few books and articles) without knowing how to proceed.

Hanna Grossman
Cornwall, CT

Re: no match with my sister #dna

LEISER ROBERT <robert.leiser@...>
 

I don't know a lot about this, but I don't think the Chimera or Mosaic
phonemena account for this, because they relate to nuclear DNA, which
(with the exception of the Y chromosome in a maile) is a mixture of
both parents' DNA. mtDNA analysis is done on mitochondrial DNA, and
the DNA always comes exclusively >from the mother.
A piece of amateur speculation on my part is as follows:

the method of dating nearest common ancestors through DNA relies on
the fact that DNA mutations occur with an average frequency of, say, Y
years
- therefore, if we see two differences between one member of a family
and another, as in this case, our best guess is to say that it must
have occured over a period of 2 x Y years, so that is how far back the
common ancestor was
- however, the mutations don't happen gradually: One generation
doesn't have it and the next does
- therefore it's entirely possible that one child of a family has a
mutation and another doesn't: The mutation occurred in that generation
- I suppose it's possible that in rare instances two mutations could
happen in the same generation (in the same way that you can wait ages
for a bus, and then two come along at once).

Having said all that, even if it does stand up to expert scrutiny, I'd
think that a statistically more likely explanation is some problem in
the data collection or analysis process.
I'd welcome expert feedback on this: It's an important issue for all
of us who want to be able to trust what our DNA analyses tell us.
Bob Leiser

On 22 January 2013 16:16, <Egrdn@...> wrote:
Perhaps this a case of chimera? See for example

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask172

Eleanor Gordon
California

---
From: "Arnold Chamove" <ArnoldChamove@...>

Did my yDNA and mtDNA many years ago with FamilyTreeDNA.
Recently did my sister's mtDNA and her son's yDNA and mtDNA
with the same firm.
My sister's mtDNA and my mtDNA did not match but were two loci
apart (so we are likely second- or third-cousins, they estimate).
However, her mtDNA and her son's DNA did match exactly to one
another, but not exactly to me. We were both Caesarian, so pretty
unlikely we are not >from the same mother, and the paper records
say we were too. Asked FamilyTreeDNA but they have not replied.

Has the test changed over the years to account for this difference
between me and my sister?

DNA Research #DNA Re: no match with my sister #dna

LEISER ROBERT <robert.leiser@...>
 

I don't know a lot about this, but I don't think the Chimera or Mosaic
phonemena account for this, because they relate to nuclear DNA, which
(with the exception of the Y chromosome in a maile) is a mixture of
both parents' DNA. mtDNA analysis is done on mitochondrial DNA, and
the DNA always comes exclusively >from the mother.
A piece of amateur speculation on my part is as follows:

the method of dating nearest common ancestors through DNA relies on
the fact that DNA mutations occur with an average frequency of, say, Y
years
- therefore, if we see two differences between one member of a family
and another, as in this case, our best guess is to say that it must
have occured over a period of 2 x Y years, so that is how far back the
common ancestor was
- however, the mutations don't happen gradually: One generation
doesn't have it and the next does
- therefore it's entirely possible that one child of a family has a
mutation and another doesn't: The mutation occurred in that generation
- I suppose it's possible that in rare instances two mutations could
happen in the same generation (in the same way that you can wait ages
for a bus, and then two come along at once).

Having said all that, even if it does stand up to expert scrutiny, I'd
think that a statistically more likely explanation is some problem in
the data collection or analysis process.
I'd welcome expert feedback on this: It's an important issue for all
of us who want to be able to trust what our DNA analyses tell us.
Bob Leiser

On 22 January 2013 16:16, <Egrdn@...> wrote:
Perhaps this a case of chimera? See for example

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask172

Eleanor Gordon
California

---
From: "Arnold Chamove" <ArnoldChamove@...>

Did my yDNA and mtDNA many years ago with FamilyTreeDNA.
Recently did my sister's mtDNA and her son's yDNA and mtDNA
with the same firm.
My sister's mtDNA and my mtDNA did not match but were two loci
apart (so we are likely second- or third-cousins, they estimate).
However, her mtDNA and her son's DNA did match exactly to one
another, but not exactly to me. We were both Caesarian, so pretty
unlikely we are not >from the same mother, and the paper records
say we were too. Asked FamilyTreeDNA but they have not replied.

Has the test changed over the years to account for this difference
between me and my sister?

Propery in Lodz #general

Raizlyst Tyberg <raizlyst@...>
 

I my name is Jehuda Tyberg. My grandparents owned property and real estate
in the old city of Lodz. They owned a big apartment building in the old city
of Lodz. I heard it is still standing people are are living there my
granarents names were Izrael Reuven and Rywka Gerszonowicz his wife maiden
name Rywka Widawsky they were born in 1867 and got married in 1892
My mother was their daughters she was born in 1900 and got married in 1919 in
Lodz my grandparents died in 1941 they are burried in the Lodz cemetery
I would like that somebody of the group remembers of my grandparents he
should write in my address *** 45th st Brooklyn ny 11204 my tel
*** thank you

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen policy does not allow posting of private phone numbers
or complete addresses.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Propery in Lodz #general

Raizlyst Tyberg <raizlyst@...>
 

I my name is Jehuda Tyberg. My grandparents owned property and real estate
in the old city of Lodz. They owned a big apartment building in the old city
of Lodz. I heard it is still standing people are are living there my
granarents names were Izrael Reuven and Rywka Gerszonowicz his wife maiden
name Rywka Widawsky they were born in 1867 and got married in 1892
My mother was their daughters she was born in 1900 and got married in 1919 in
Lodz my grandparents died in 1941 they are burried in the Lodz cemetery
I would like that somebody of the group remembers of my grandparents he
should write in my address *** 45th st Brooklyn ny 11204 my tel
*** thank you

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen policy does not allow posting of private phone numbers
or complete addresses.

Rabbi Yisrael Horowitz of Prague #general

Chaim freedman
 

There are several family trees on Ancestry and Geni which claim that
the wife of Rabbi Yisrael Horowitz (son of Aharon Meshulam Zalman) of Prague
was Nissel Ursula (sometimes Rachel Ursula), 1507-1572, a daughter of Moshe
Halevy Ashkenazy Stern who was born in 1488 in Mainz.
The various trees do not give a specific source but quote each other's
family trees.
If this marriage is true then it has been unknown to rabbinical genealogists
to date.
In addition, if true, it might connect to many generations of prominent
families.

I would appreciate any information which might locate the source.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
email chaimjan@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Rabbi Yisrael Horowitz of Prague #general

Chaim freedman
 

There are several family trees on Ancestry and Geni which claim that
the wife of Rabbi Yisrael Horowitz (son of Aharon Meshulam Zalman) of Prague
was Nissel Ursula (sometimes Rachel Ursula), 1507-1572, a daughter of Moshe
Halevy Ashkenazy Stern who was born in 1488 in Mainz.
The various trees do not give a specific source but quote each other's
family trees.
If this marriage is true then it has been unknown to rabbinical genealogists
to date.
In addition, if true, it might connect to many generations of prominent
families.

I would appreciate any information which might locate the source.

Chaim Freedman
Petah Tikvah, Israel
email chaimjan@...

A Bukovinian Mystery #general

Steven Emanuel <steven.emanuel@...>
 

Dear All

While researching the Birth Registers of Suceava, Bukovinia for the mid 19th
Century I came across an entry which had been deleted. The birth was for

Mischke BEINER b.20 Dec.1865, parents Israel & Jente.

The entry has been crossed out and endorsed:
Cancelled by order of the State Government 8 Sep. 1879, No.7927.

Mischke would have been my GGAunt.

Can anyone advise of circumstances that would lead to a Birth entry being
deleted 14 years later? Also where I could search for the order 7927 ( I
have written to the Archives in both Suceava & Vienna, so far without
success).

Steven EMANUEL
Id 185680
Blackwater, UK

Searching BEINER Suceava, Munich & elsewhere.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen A Bukovinian Mystery #general

Steven Emanuel <steven.emanuel@...>
 

Dear All

While researching the Birth Registers of Suceava, Bukovinia for the mid 19th
Century I came across an entry which had been deleted. The birth was for

Mischke BEINER b.20 Dec.1865, parents Israel & Jente.

The entry has been crossed out and endorsed:
Cancelled by order of the State Government 8 Sep. 1879, No.7927.

Mischke would have been my GGAunt.

Can anyone advise of circumstances that would lead to a Birth entry being
deleted 14 years later? Also where I could search for the order 7927 ( I
have written to the Archives in both Suceava & Vienna, so far without
success).

Steven EMANUEL
Id 185680
Blackwater, UK

Searching BEINER Suceava, Munich & elsewhere.

Palestine Police records #general

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

from the little I know there was the British Police force in
Palestine and there were the "Notrim".

Here is an explanation in English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notrim

So you will have to check out both.

Here is a link to information about the Palestine Police Force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Police_Force

The sites about the Notrim are in Hebrew and were according to areas.

Rose Feldman
Israel Genealogy Research Association
http://genealogy.org.il
http:/facebook.com/israelgenealogy

Keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general and
Jewish and Israeli roots in particular with
http://twitter.com/JewDataGenGirl

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Palestine Police records #general

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

from the little I know there was the British Police force in
Palestine and there were the "Notrim".

Here is an explanation in English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notrim

So you will have to check out both.

Here is a link to information about the Palestine Police Force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Police_Force

The sites about the Notrim are in Hebrew and were according to areas.

Rose Feldman
Israel Genealogy Research Association
http://genealogy.org.il
http:/facebook.com/israelgenealogy

Keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general and
Jewish and Israeli roots in particular with
http://twitter.com/JewDataGenGirl

Re: Palestine Police Records #general

Ann Rabinowitz
 

Some resources to use to locate information on individuals who served in the
Palestine Police Force under the British Mandate, you can look at the
following site:

http://www.sant.ox.ac.uk/mec/MECA-palestine-police/PalestinePoliceCBRL.pdf

The site gives details on the types of records available for the Palestine
Police Force and also examples of them among other things. In addition, there
is the following site for the Palestine Police Old Comrades Society:

http://www.wyevalley.worldonline.co.uk/

Ann Rabinowitz annrab@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Palestine Police Records #general

Ann Rabinowitz
 

Some resources to use to locate information on individuals who served in the
Palestine Police Force under the British Mandate, you can look at the
following site:

http://www.sant.ox.ac.uk/mec/MECA-palestine-police/PalestinePoliceCBRL.pdf

The site gives details on the types of records available for the Palestine
Police Force and also examples of them among other things. In addition, there
is the following site for the Palestine Police Old Comrades Society:

http://www.wyevalley.worldonline.co.uk/

Ann Rabinowitz annrab@...