Date   

Why would a husband assume his wife's maiden name? #galicia

Rivka Schirman <capitetes@...>
 

The simplest answer is embedded in your question: so as he, his wife
and his children all have the same surname.

Obviously, >from what you have written, Chasia and children had legal
Austrian documents with the Chasia's maiden name, which indicates
that prior to Herman's departure for the US he and Chasia did not
register their Jewish marriage in the State registration and were not
considered legally married.

I do not know to what extent a Ketuba >from Austria would have
sufficed, in 1921, to have the Jewish marriage legally recognized as
valid in the US overriding the Austrian official documents stating they
were two unmarried persons and have all the papers of Chasia and the
children changed to STARYSOLER. The simplest - and probably also the
quickest - solution seems to have been for Herman to change his
surname to match that of his wife and children.

Otherwise, in "the Old Country," there were cases in which a husband
took up his wife's family name. They were Jewishly 'authorised' in
such cases when, for example, there were no male descendants on the
wife's side to carry on the name. The Israeli law (Law of Names 1956)
enables every citizen, once married according to the State law, to either
go on carrying the previous surname, or choose the spouse's surname,
or join the spouse's surname to his/her own or to choose - together
with the spouse- a whole new surname for the couple.

Rivka

Roy Star <roystar20@...> wrote:

Herman STARYSOLER >from Tarnopol, Galicia, immigrated to New York USA
originally around 1913. He most probably returned to Tarnopol and then
back to New York, where, in 1921 his wife and children joined him there....

His wife and 3 children travelled under Chasia's maiden name CZYGLIK.
He assumed this name for himself and the children, and dropped the 'Z'
replacing it with an 'H' thus changing it to CHYGLIK....

Can anyone give an insight as to why someone would change their
family's surname to his wife's maiden name in this way?


Re: Why would a husband assume his wife's maiden name? #galicia

Stephen Weinstein
 

Historically, this sometimes happened if the wife had the more
prestigious/desirable name. (I imagine it might also happen if the
husband had a name that had come into disgrace because of a scandal
involving someone else with the same name.)

A related, but distinct, phenomenon is when the wife is >from a famous
family and the husband will be known as someone who is part of that
family, rather than the wife being known as someone who is part of his
family. For example, we often refer to the Queen's husband as one of
the Windsors, but most of us do not even know his ancestry (even
though his father was the King of Greece), much less refer to his wife
as part of that family.

However, in this particular case, you seem to believe that the
children had the wife's surname before the husband did. Therefore,
the most likely explanation seems to be that he took their surname to
make it appear as though they had been given his surname at birth,
when, in reality, they were either illegitimate or >from a previous
marriage. Research into whether the wife's name was her maiden name
or the name of a prior husband may shed light on this.

More modern, real examples include:

1. A man who believed that it was important for his children to have
the same last name as both of their parents and a woman who wanted
to keep her maiden name were getting married. Since he did not want
them to have different last names, and she did not want to change her
last name, they agreed that the best solution would be for him to take
her name.

2. Japanese law required a husband and wife to use the same name on
government documents. A female professor at a government university
got married and wanted to keep being listed in the catalog under the
name by which she was already known in her field. Therefore, her
husband had to take her name. (However, he kept using his original
name professionally, and being teased on business trips about having
his wife's name in his passport, so they finally decided to get
divorced on paper, so that the Japanese government would let them use
different last names, but continued to live as though they were still
married.)

Stephen Weinstein
Camarillo, California, USA
stephenweinstein@...

Roy Star <roystar20@...> wrote:

Herman STARYSOLER >from Tarnopol, Galicia, immigrated to New York USA
originally around 1913. He most probably returned to Tarnopol and then
back to New York, where, in 1921 his wife and children joined him there....

His wife and 3 children travelled under Chasia's maiden name CZYGLIK.
He assumed this name for himself and the children, and dropped the 'Z'
replacing it with an 'H' thus changing it to CHYGLIK....

Can anyone give an insight as to why someone would change their
family's surname to his wife's maiden name in this way?


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Why would a husband assume his wife's maiden name? #galicia

Rivka Schirman <capitetes@...>
 

The simplest answer is embedded in your question: so as he, his wife
and his children all have the same surname.

Obviously, >from what you have written, Chasia and children had legal
Austrian documents with the Chasia's maiden name, which indicates
that prior to Herman's departure for the US he and Chasia did not
register their Jewish marriage in the State registration and were not
considered legally married.

I do not know to what extent a Ketuba >from Austria would have
sufficed, in 1921, to have the Jewish marriage legally recognized as
valid in the US overriding the Austrian official documents stating they
were two unmarried persons and have all the papers of Chasia and the
children changed to STARYSOLER. The simplest - and probably also the
quickest - solution seems to have been for Herman to change his
surname to match that of his wife and children.

Otherwise, in "the Old Country," there were cases in which a husband
took up his wife's family name. They were Jewishly 'authorised' in
such cases when, for example, there were no male descendants on the
wife's side to carry on the name. The Israeli law (Law of Names 1956)
enables every citizen, once married according to the State law, to either
go on carrying the previous surname, or choose the spouse's surname,
or join the spouse's surname to his/her own or to choose - together
with the spouse- a whole new surname for the couple.

Rivka

Roy Star <roystar20@...> wrote:

Herman STARYSOLER >from Tarnopol, Galicia, immigrated to New York USA
originally around 1913. He most probably returned to Tarnopol and then
back to New York, where, in 1921 his wife and children joined him there....

His wife and 3 children travelled under Chasia's maiden name CZYGLIK.
He assumed this name for himself and the children, and dropped the 'Z'
replacing it with an 'H' thus changing it to CHYGLIK....

Can anyone give an insight as to why someone would change their
family's surname to his wife's maiden name in this way?


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Why would a husband assume his wife's maiden name? #galicia

Stephen Weinstein
 

Historically, this sometimes happened if the wife had the more
prestigious/desirable name. (I imagine it might also happen if the
husband had a name that had come into disgrace because of a scandal
involving someone else with the same name.)

A related, but distinct, phenomenon is when the wife is >from a famous
family and the husband will be known as someone who is part of that
family, rather than the wife being known as someone who is part of his
family. For example, we often refer to the Queen's husband as one of
the Windsors, but most of us do not even know his ancestry (even
though his father was the King of Greece), much less refer to his wife
as part of that family.

However, in this particular case, you seem to believe that the
children had the wife's surname before the husband did. Therefore,
the most likely explanation seems to be that he took their surname to
make it appear as though they had been given his surname at birth,
when, in reality, they were either illegitimate or >from a previous
marriage. Research into whether the wife's name was her maiden name
or the name of a prior husband may shed light on this.

More modern, real examples include:

1. A man who believed that it was important for his children to have
the same last name as both of their parents and a woman who wanted
to keep her maiden name were getting married. Since he did not want
them to have different last names, and she did not want to change her
last name, they agreed that the best solution would be for him to take
her name.

2. Japanese law required a husband and wife to use the same name on
government documents. A female professor at a government university
got married and wanted to keep being listed in the catalog under the
name by which she was already known in her field. Therefore, her
husband had to take her name. (However, he kept using his original
name professionally, and being teased on business trips about having
his wife's name in his passport, so they finally decided to get
divorced on paper, so that the Japanese government would let them use
different last names, but continued to live as though they were still
married.)

Stephen Weinstein
Camarillo, California, USA
stephenweinstein@...

Roy Star <roystar20@...> wrote:

Herman STARYSOLER >from Tarnopol, Galicia, immigrated to New York USA
originally around 1913. He most probably returned to Tarnopol and then
back to New York, where, in 1921 his wife and children joined him there....

His wife and 3 children travelled under Chasia's maiden name CZYGLIK.
He assumed this name for himself and the children, and dropped the 'Z'
replacing it with an 'H' thus changing it to CHYGLIK....

Can anyone give an insight as to why someone would change their
family's surname to his wife's maiden name in this way?


Cost for hiring a translator in Belarus #general

Lisa Dashman <lisa.dashman@...>
 

Dear Genners,
If you have fairly recently hired someone to translate documents in Belarus, I would
be grateful to know what the acceptable and fair hourly rate is.

Please respond privately, and thank you in advance for your help.

Best regards,
Lisa Dashman
North of NYC


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Cost for hiring a translator in Belarus #general

Lisa Dashman <lisa.dashman@...>
 

Dear Genners,
If you have fairly recently hired someone to translate documents in Belarus, I would
be grateful to know what the acceptable and fair hourly rate is.

Please respond privately, and thank you in advance for your help.

Best regards,
Lisa Dashman
North of NYC


Apologies - yet again !!! Please re-instate the library visit for Sun 9th Sept. #unitedkingdom

Raymond Montanjees
 

Blame it on the Olympics - with all this to-ing and fro-ing !!

Sunday 9th September at 33 Seymour Place W1. A Library Session. Open >from
3.00 - 6.00 pm for general research. All visitors welcome. Members of the
society are on hand to help you use the library.

Regards,

Library Committee


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Apologies - yet again !!! Please re-instate the library visit for Sun 9th Sept. #unitedkingdom

Raymond Montanjees
 

Blame it on the Olympics - with all this to-ing and fro-ing !!

Sunday 9th September at 33 Seymour Place W1. A Library Session. Open >from
3.00 - 6.00 pm for general research. All visitors welcome. Members of the
society are on hand to help you use the library.

Regards,

Library Committee


GANSLER IN RECORDS PRIOR TO 1886--MARRIAGE AND BAPTISMAL #austria-czech

czsadie@...
 

Hello Friends,

My GGGrandparents Erzse VARGA and Jozsef GANSLER had 3 children Baptized
in mid 1880's in Gyarmat, Gyor County, Hungary.  I am trying to locate
their Marriage records (they are not in Gyor, Hunmgary Catholic Records) prior to 1884. 


Also, I have found Baptisms in the Hungary Catholic records for 3 of the
siblings to Istvan Gansler in Gyor, Hungary beginning in 1886 with my
GGGrandfather Jozsef GANSLER,then Janos  GANSLER IN 1888, and finally
Mari  GANSLER IN 1893.


Now if there is anyone that knows the
counties of Sopron, Tolna, and Verszprem, or anything in Eastern Austria and could help me by seeing if
the GANSLER Name is in any indexes(marriage  or Baptism or anything you
may find), I would be so grateful.  

Thank you in advance if anyone can help me.

Cindy Gonsler Zofchak
czsadie@...


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech GANSLER IN RECORDS PRIOR TO 1886--MARRIAGE AND BAPTISMAL #austria-czech

czsadie@...
 

Hello Friends,

My GGGrandparents Erzse VARGA and Jozsef GANSLER had 3 children Baptized
in mid 1880's in Gyarmat, Gyor County, Hungary.  I am trying to locate
their Marriage records (they are not in Gyor, Hunmgary Catholic Records) prior to 1884. 


Also, I have found Baptisms in the Hungary Catholic records for 3 of the
siblings to Istvan Gansler in Gyor, Hungary beginning in 1886 with my
GGGrandfather Jozsef GANSLER,then Janos  GANSLER IN 1888, and finally
Mari  GANSLER IN 1893.


Now if there is anyone that knows the
counties of Sopron, Tolna, and Verszprem, or anything in Eastern Austria and could help me by seeing if
the GANSLER Name is in any indexes(marriage  or Baptism or anything you
may find), I would be so grateful.  

Thank you in advance if anyone can help me.

Cindy Gonsler Zofchak
czsadie@...


badatelna.cz #austria-czech

jan@...
 

I remember that some time ago somebody asked how to turn the pictures/scans
on the screen instead of turning the screen it self. Has anyone found a way
how to do it?

Jan O. Hellmann/DK


Jan O. Hellmann
Gammelmosevej 172
DK-2800 Lyngby
phone/fax +45 44 44 00 17
mobil: +45 4075 3772


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech badatelna.cz #austria-czech

jan@...
 

I remember that some time ago somebody asked how to turn the pictures/scans
on the screen instead of turning the screen it self. Has anyone found a way
how to do it?

Jan O. Hellmann/DK


Jan O. Hellmann
Gammelmosevej 172
DK-2800 Lyngby
phone/fax +45 44 44 00 17
mobil: +45 4075 3772


Re: Galicia Digest query July 30 2012 - adopting wife's maiden name #galicia

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

Here we go again.

Names were **not changed** at Ellis Island -- **not by the authorities
nor by the immigrants!**

Once off the ship, an immigrant may have changed his name but it did
not take place at Ellis Island.

Consult the discussion group archives for more on this subject.

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

Linda Schildkraut wrote:

...A similar thing happened in my husband's family. Mr. and Mrs.
Upnicas (Upnick) emigrated >from Lithuania to Bridgeport, Connecticut,
in the early 1890s. Family lore states that when asked to spell his
surname, my husband's great grandfather, thoughtfully stroked his
chin and mused, "Upnick, Upnick, how you spell in English?" Great
grandmother, nauseous >from the journey and eager to get off the boat,
piped up, "Use, my name - Ginsberg - it's easier!" And the family
became Ginsbergs....


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Galicia Digest query July 30 2012 - adopting wife's maiden name #galicia

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

Here we go again.

Names were **not changed** at Ellis Island -- **not by the authorities
nor by the immigrants!**

Once off the ship, an immigrant may have changed his name but it did
not take place at Ellis Island.

Consult the discussion group archives for more on this subject.

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

Linda Schildkraut wrote:

...A similar thing happened in my husband's family. Mr. and Mrs.
Upnicas (Upnick) emigrated >from Lithuania to Bridgeport, Connecticut,
in the early 1890s. Family lore states that when asked to spell his
surname, my husband's great grandfather, thoughtfully stroked his
chin and mused, "Upnick, Upnick, how you spell in English?" Great
grandmother, nauseous >from the journey and eager to get off the boat,
piped up, "Use, my name - Ginsberg - it's easier!" And the family
became Ginsbergs....


Re: Confusion reigns.... #dna

egrdn@...
 

There has been some discussion recently about whether or not to test
siblings on Family Finder. I think it depends on the goal. In the
various projects I administer, we have at least four sets of siblings
who have tested, including my two adult children. Each of the latter
has at least one suggested third cousin on his or her match list who
does not appear on the sibling's match list, as well as several
suggested fourth and fourth remote cousins who are only on one match
list or the other. I have not compared their lists for fifth cousins
because I do not find that level of relationship very useful.

Two of my cousins who are siblings have tested. One has 1187 matches;
the other has 1221 matches. Scanning down their match lists on my
spreadsheet, I see a few suggested third cousin matches which are in
one column but not the other.

Comparing my adult children's results on their first cousin's
Chromosome Browser is interesting. The number of shared segments is
very close -- 35 and 36 -- but one shares approximately 633 cM with
the cousin while the other shares about 760 cM with the cousin. And,
the shared blocks are not the same in some cases. If I were looking
for a block handed down through several generations, as some of us do,
I might miss a connection if I did not have results for both siblings
to compare.

If you are only looking for first and second cousins, I do not think
there is anything to be gained by testing siblings. Beyond that, it
depends.....

Eleanor Gordon
California and Virginia


DNA Research #DNA Re: Confusion reigns.... #dna

egrdn@...
 

There has been some discussion recently about whether or not to test
siblings on Family Finder. I think it depends on the goal. In the
various projects I administer, we have at least four sets of siblings
who have tested, including my two adult children. Each of the latter
has at least one suggested third cousin on his or her match list who
does not appear on the sibling's match list, as well as several
suggested fourth and fourth remote cousins who are only on one match
list or the other. I have not compared their lists for fifth cousins
because I do not find that level of relationship very useful.

Two of my cousins who are siblings have tested. One has 1187 matches;
the other has 1221 matches. Scanning down their match lists on my
spreadsheet, I see a few suggested third cousin matches which are in
one column but not the other.

Comparing my adult children's results on their first cousin's
Chromosome Browser is interesting. The number of shared segments is
very close -- 35 and 36 -- but one shares approximately 633 cM with
the cousin while the other shares about 760 cM with the cousin. And,
the shared blocks are not the same in some cases. If I were looking
for a block handed down through several generations, as some of us do,
I might miss a connection if I did not have results for both siblings
to compare.

If you are only looking for first and second cousins, I do not think
there is anything to be gained by testing siblings. Beyond that, it
depends.....

Eleanor Gordon
California and Virginia


Re: Galicia Digest query July 30 2012 - adopting wife's maiden name #galicia

Linda Schildkraut <lindaschildkraut@...>
 

Dear Roy:

You asked why your ancestor would have adopted his wife's maiden name.

A similar thing happened in my husband's family. Mr. and Mrs. Upnicas
(Upnick) emigrated >from Lithuania to Bridgeport, Connecticut, in the early
1890s. Family lore states that when asked to spell his surname, my
husband's great grandfather, thoughtfully stroked his chin and mused,
"Upnick, Upnick, how you spell in English?" Great grandmother, nauseous
from the journey and eager to get off the boat, piped up, "Use, my name -
Ginsberg - it's easier!" And the family became Ginsbergs. His grandfather
and father both toyed with legally changing the name back, but never did
because of all the paperwork involved. However, my husband has adopted
it as his pen name - Eddie Upnick - for his trilogy of historical science
fiction (scientists travel back >from a Nazi-controlled future to change the
course of WWII).

That's one reason, however, your family name doesn't seem easier...
maybe he wanted to shed his old identity for other reasons.

Regards,

Linda Schildkraut
Bayside, NY

Researching: SCHILDKRAUT (Bobrka, Bartfeld, Bardejov, Svidnik Felso),
KUEHN, KEEHN (Narajow), ENGLANDER (Bartfeld, Bardejov, Svidnik Felso),
LILLING (Bartfeld, Bardejov, Svidnik Felso), RIPIN, RIPINSKY, RIPANS
(Russia? Poland? Paris, France, New York City, Long Island)


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Galicia Digest query July 30 2012 - adopting wife's maiden name #galicia

Linda Schildkraut <lindaschildkraut@...>
 

Dear Roy:

You asked why your ancestor would have adopted his wife's maiden name.

A similar thing happened in my husband's family. Mr. and Mrs. Upnicas
(Upnick) emigrated >from Lithuania to Bridgeport, Connecticut, in the early
1890s. Family lore states that when asked to spell his surname, my
husband's great grandfather, thoughtfully stroked his chin and mused,
"Upnick, Upnick, how you spell in English?" Great grandmother, nauseous
from the journey and eager to get off the boat, piped up, "Use, my name -
Ginsberg - it's easier!" And the family became Ginsbergs. His grandfather
and father both toyed with legally changing the name back, but never did
because of all the paperwork involved. However, my husband has adopted
it as his pen name - Eddie Upnick - for his trilogy of historical science
fiction (scientists travel back >from a Nazi-controlled future to change the
course of WWII).

That's one reason, however, your family name doesn't seem easier...
maybe he wanted to shed his old identity for other reasons.

Regards,

Linda Schildkraut
Bayside, NY

Researching: SCHILDKRAUT (Bobrka, Bartfeld, Bardejov, Svidnik Felso),
KUEHN, KEEHN (Narajow), ENGLANDER (Bartfeld, Bardejov, Svidnik Felso),
LILLING (Bartfeld, Bardejov, Svidnik Felso), RIPIN, RIPINSKY, RIPANS
(Russia? Poland? Paris, France, New York City, Long Island)


Kiev Photos & Videos (in Russian) #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

These can be found on a Russian forum, Reibert. info., at:http://reibert.info/ or http://tinyurl.com/bwv23dl

Some of the photo titles:
154. "Kievans in line for registration, 1941" (Hotel Spartak)
153. "The queue for registration in the commandat's office, 1941"
152. "House is on fire at Khreshchatyk 25, 1941"
"Kiev in the 1941-43 war" (video)
151. "Lights store building, 'Children's World', 1941" (Proreznaya Street)
150. "Corner of Khreshchatyk St. Sverdlov, 1944" (now Proreznaya St.)
147. "Engels St. Fire, 1941"

If you click on "Read more" link (right side below each photo) there is additional information about the photo above the link.

For many more pages--click page # links at the page bottom.


Download any of the following, to convert the website into the language of your choice, if necessary:

1. Google Chrome - For PC, Mac, and Linux
www.google.com/chrome

and/or

2. http://www.google.com/language_tools

Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Kiev Photos & Videos (in Russian) #ukraine

Marilyn Robinson
 

These can be found on a Russian forum, Reibert. info., at:http://reibert.info/ or http://tinyurl.com/bwv23dl

Some of the photo titles:
154. "Kievans in line for registration, 1941" (Hotel Spartak)
153. "The queue for registration in the commandat's office, 1941"
152. "House is on fire at Khreshchatyk 25, 1941"
"Kiev in the 1941-43 war" (video)
151. "Lights store building, 'Children's World', 1941" (Proreznaya Street)
150. "Corner of Khreshchatyk St. Sverdlov, 1944" (now Proreznaya St.)
147. "Engels St. Fire, 1941"

If you click on "Read more" link (right side below each photo) there is additional information about the photo above the link.

For many more pages--click page # links at the page bottom.


Download any of the following, to convert the website into the language of your choice, if necessary:

1. Google Chrome - For PC, Mac, and Linux
www.google.com/chrome

and/or

2. http://www.google.com/language_tools

Marilyn Robinson
Florida