I found a database that may be known to some here but I don't recall it being mentioned by anybody at least since I am a member of H-SIG, so I am sure that all those newer than me, if not everyone, will appreciate it. It is a database compiled by the owner of Smart Lines Consulting (http://www.smartlines.hu/) in Budapest, obviously Jewish because the data are >from Jewish registries.

Here is what he has there (http://www.smartlines.hu/adatok.htm):
Papa, death records (1848 - 1895)
Papa, marriage records (1858 - 1895)
Papa, birth records (1848 - 1895)
Budapest, marriage records (1851 - 1871)
Miskolc, death records (1874 - 1895)
Miskolc, marriage records (1851 - 1895)
Budapest, death records (1889)
Budapest, death records (1890)
Budapest, death records (1891)
Budapest, death records (1861-1866)

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada

I found a database that may be known to some here but I don't recall it being mentioned by anybody at least since I am a member of H-SIG, so I am sure that all those newer than me, if not everyone, will appreciate it. It is a database compiled by the owner of Smart Lines Consulting (http://www.smartlines.hu/) in Budapest, obviously Jewish because the data are >from Jewish registries.

Here is what he has there (http://www.smartlines.hu/adatok.htm):
Papa, death records (1848 - 1895)
Papa, marriage records (1858 - 1895)
Papa, birth records (1848 - 1895)
Budapest, marriage records (1851 - 1871)
Miskolc, death records (1874 - 1895)
Miskolc, marriage records (1851 - 1895)
Budapest, death records (1889)
Budapest, death records (1890)
Budapest, death records (1891)
Budapest, death records (1861-1866)

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada

Dear All,

a few years ago I translated the memoirs of somebody >from overseas, who grew up
around 1900 in Budapest. He was >from a Jewish family. In the memoirs he mentions
that his mother frequently got their maids changed, because "the elder could not
cope with all the works while the younger had to go as soon as the mother
noticed that her sons started to have sexual relationship with them". This
confirms what I have come across elsewhere - it was a common practice that
adolescent boys were introduced to sexuality at home by the family maids. In
some cases it happened with the consent / knowledge of the parents, in other
cases without their knowledge or against their will.
Obviously this is only one aspect of the exploitation of poor women around the
household. Simply put, these girls were poor, away >from home, without protection
- they did not have too much chance.
If you take the civil birth registers of the 8th district >from the early 1900s,
where there have been the bigger hospitals of the city, you will find that 9 out
of 10 births there were illegitimate and the mothers were all maids,
steamstresses, etc.

Kind regards,
Andras Koltai
Budapest, Hungary

Does anyone know if there are interment books for the Gyongyos cemetery?

Thank you.

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA

Dear All,

a few years ago I translated the memoirs of somebody >from overseas, who grew up
around 1900 in Budapest. He was >from a Jewish family. In the memoirs he mentions
that his mother frequently got their maids changed, because "the elder could not
cope with all the works while the younger had to go as soon as the mother
noticed that her sons started to have sexual relationship with them". This
confirms what I have come across elsewhere - it was a common practice that
adolescent boys were introduced to sexuality at home by the family maids. In
some cases it happened with the consent / knowledge of the parents, in other
cases without their knowledge or against their will.
Obviously this is only one aspect of the exploitation of poor women around the
household. Simply put, these girls were poor, away >from home, without protection
- they did not have too much chance.
If you take the civil birth registers of the 8th district >from the early 1900s,
where there have been the bigger hospitals of the city, you will find that 9 out
of 10 births there were illegitimate and the mothers were all maids,
steamstresses, etc.

Kind regards,
Andras Koltai
Budapest, Hungary

Does anyone know if there are interment books for the Gyongyos cemetery?

Thank you.

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA

Subject: RE: Birth Registration in Hungary/Romania
From: pgbakos@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:31:35 +0000
X-Message-Number: 2

I was under the impression that there were no public
records in Hungary prior to 1895 but that the registers were
kept by the churches and synagogues.Szilagy county was
certainly a part of Hungary in 1869.(Would have been
recently
moved as a result of the compromise of 1867).
But then I could be wrong as I know little about Erdely.
Peter Bakos
Alencon, France

According to my observations, yes, there was. Earlier this year I was working on
the birth register of Belenyes in Bihar county, years cca 1860 to 1895, and I
constantly ran into annoyed comments by the rabbi that again he had to get the news
of this or that birth >from the "kozjegyzo"(the registrar), since obviously the
parents only went to the "jegyzoseg" (the public registry office) and didn't report
to him... Shame, shame... :)

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada

PS On the other hand this could possibly mean that some data may be lurking in
those public registers that never got into the Jewish registers...

Subject: Re: legitimate/illegitimate in birth

registration

in Hungary/ Romania
From: irisgr@zahav.net.il
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:53:48 +0200

I remember my mother that was born in Gerla

in

1921 [ it was already

Romania ], told me that out of the six

children in

her family, she was the

first born and the only child registered as

legitimate.

One other point was not explored yet...
I sometimes encountered entries in different birth registers where the legitimacy
of the child was question-marked in spite of the fact that clearly there was a
father claiming paternity. The reason in these cases was that the ketuba was not
presented at the time of the registration as proof of the parents' legit status.
This then sometimes was corrected at a later date, but often was just forgotten
about...

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada

Subject: RE: Birth Registration in Hungary/Romania
From: pgbakos@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:31:35 +0000
X-Message-Number: 2

I was under the impression that there were no public
records in Hungary prior to 1895 but that the registers were
kept by the churches and synagogues.Szilagy county was
certainly a part of Hungary in 1869.(Would have been
recently
moved as a result of the compromise of 1867).
But then I could be wrong as I know little about Erdely.
Peter Bakos
Alencon, France

According to my observations, yes, there was. Earlier this year I was working on
the birth register of Belenyes in Bihar county, years cca 1860 to 1895, and I
constantly ran into annoyed comments by the rabbi that again he had to get the news
of this or that birth >from the "kozjegyzo"(the registrar), since obviously the
parents only went to the "jegyzoseg" (the public registry office) and didn't report
to him... Shame, shame... :)

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada

PS On the other hand this could possibly mean that some data may be lurking in
those public registers that never got into the Jewish registers...

Subject: Re: legitimate/illegitimate in birth

registration

in Hungary/ Romania
From: irisgr@zahav.net.il
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:53:48 +0200

I remember my mother that was born in Gerla

in

1921 [ it was already

Romania ], told me that out of the six

children in

her family, she was the

first born and the only child registered as

legitimate.

One other point was not explored yet...
I sometimes encountered entries in different birth registers where the legitimacy
of the child was question-marked in spite of the fact that clearly there was a
father claiming paternity. The reason in these cases was that the ketuba was not
presented at the time of the registration as proof of the parents' legit status.
This then sometimes was corrected at a later date, but often was just forgotten
about...

Sarah Feuerstein
Toronto, Canada

A researcher in Zagreb has found a lot of info in a recently published book; "ZaviÄ?ajnici grada Osijeka - 1901.-1946". English translation:
"Register of Full-Rights Citizens of the City of Osijek, 1901-1946", Croatian lang., Publ. 2003, 960 pages.

I have not seen the book but I have found a listing for it at http://knjizara.pontes.hr/index.asp?link=p&idi401 .

To show the type of info, included below is some info I received, as translated into English by the researcher, with some comments added by
the researcher.

Page 919._ Zwieback Ignatz, born 1848. in Nagy Harzsany, died 1919. in Osijek, married, merchant, Jewish religion. Wife: Malvina Zwieback born
Weissfeld, born 1859. in Budapest, Jewish religion, died in Osijek 10 June 1937. Children: Zwieback Oskar, born Osijek 1878., legitimate,
Jewish, /change of name to â??Oskar Ljudevitâ??, permission given by Government in Zagreb 14. VII. 1917 number 59551/1917; note: according to
decision of Ministry of Internal Affaires in Belgrade >from 29 October 1938 â?? number 34623-III. Cvibak (Zwieback) Oskar born 1878 was not
released >from citizenship of Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and therefore there can be any difficulties with giving him personal documents as our
citizen/; Zwieback Gizela , born 1882 in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /married to Šandor Švarc in Kaposvår/; Zwieback dr. Karl, born 27. III.
1884. in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /Dr. Dragutin Zwieback was given an citizenship [or
he became a â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Zagreb by the decision of City Council >from 2 March 1926 under a paragraph 91 with his wife Margareta
born SchÃœn born 2 September 1889 in Zagreb, and with their son Gustav born 10 May 1918 in Zagreb/; Zwieback Albert born 1885 in Osijek,
legitimate, Jewish, /â? /; Zwieback Ivka, born 1888 in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /married to Dane Rajhsman [Reichsmann] from
Djakovo/; Zwieback Margarita [Margit], born 1893 in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /married to Lujo FrÃœlich in Karlovac/; Note [this refers to
Ignatz Z.]: he has a citizenship [he is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Osijek based on a decision of City Council in Osijek >from 16 October 1891
number 13847.

Page 919. Zwiebak Julija [Julie, Julianne], born 1863 in Osijek, not married, Jewish; Note: she has a citizenship [she is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of
city of Osijek based on the list of â??ZaviÄ?ajniksâ?? >from the year of 1857. /father Herman and grandmother Jozefina [Josephine] comes together with
her/.

Page 138; Cvibak /Zwieback/ Oskar, born 17 March 1878., Osijek I. , /parents: Ignjat [this is Croatian for Ignatz] and Matilda born. Vajsfeld/;
married, merchant, Jewish; wife: Cvibak born DajÄ? [Deutsch] Gizela, born 16 May 1885 in
Vienna, parents: Bernhard and Julie born Korn/ � [married] 5 January 1908 in Vienna by the Rabbinat [Rabbi's office?] of Jewish Community of
Districts XII-XV, Jewish; Note: he has a citizenship [he is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Osijek based
on a ground of a citizenship [â??ZaviÄ?ajnostâ??] of his parents Ignjat and Matilde, and he comes with them on a list of ZaviÄ?ajniks of this town.

Page 661 Rajhsman David, born 1875 in Djakovo, /died 9 December 1936 in Osijek; parents: Herman and Sofia born Bauer/; married, merchant,
Jewish; Wife: Rajhsman born Cvibak Janeta, born 188 in Osijek, Jewish, /remarried 6 December 1945 in Zagreb with Kasum ?; daughter of Ignac and
Malvina/; Note: he has a citizenship [he is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Osijek since 23. IX. 1934. based on al. [alinea; indent?] 4 §. 13. of
Law on city communities >from 22 August 1934.

Regards,
Ed Zwieback
Long Beach, California

Moderator: This is a one-time mention of a commercial product of interest to
subscribers. Please contact Ed off-list for additional information.

A researcher in Zagreb has found a lot of info in a recently published book; "ZaviÄ?ajnici grada Osijeka - 1901.-1946". English translation:
"Register of Full-Rights Citizens of the City of Osijek, 1901-1946", Croatian lang., Publ. 2003, 960 pages.

I have not seen the book but I have found a listing for it at http://knjizara.pontes.hr/index.asp?link=p&idi401 .

To show the type of info, included below is some info I received, as translated into English by the researcher, with some comments added by
the researcher.

Page 919._ Zwieback Ignatz, born 1848. in Nagy Harzsany, died 1919. in Osijek, married, merchant, Jewish religion. Wife: Malvina Zwieback born
Weissfeld, born 1859. in Budapest, Jewish religion, died in Osijek 10 June 1937. Children: Zwieback Oskar, born Osijek 1878., legitimate,
Jewish, /change of name to â??Oskar Ljudevitâ??, permission given by Government in Zagreb 14. VII. 1917 number 59551/1917; note: according to
decision of Ministry of Internal Affaires in Belgrade >from 29 October 1938 â?? number 34623-III. Cvibak (Zwieback) Oskar born 1878 was not
released >from citizenship of Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and therefore there can be any difficulties with giving him personal documents as our
citizen/; Zwieback Gizela , born 1882 in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /married to Šandor Švarc in Kaposvår/; Zwieback dr. Karl, born 27. III.
1884. in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /Dr. Dragutin Zwieback was given an citizenship [or
he became a â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Zagreb by the decision of City Council >from 2 March 1926 under a paragraph 91 with his wife Margareta
born SchÃœn born 2 September 1889 in Zagreb, and with their son Gustav born 10 May 1918 in Zagreb/; Zwieback Albert born 1885 in Osijek,
legitimate, Jewish, /â? /; Zwieback Ivka, born 1888 in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /married to Dane Rajhsman [Reichsmann] from
Djakovo/; Zwieback Margarita [Margit], born 1893 in Osijek, legitimate, Jewish, /married to Lujo FrÃœlich in Karlovac/; Note [this refers to
Ignatz Z.]: he has a citizenship [he is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Osijek based on a decision of City Council in Osijek >from 16 October 1891
number 13847.

Page 919. Zwiebak Julija [Julie, Julianne], born 1863 in Osijek, not married, Jewish; Note: she has a citizenship [she is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of
city of Osijek based on the list of â??ZaviÄ?ajniksâ?? >from the year of 1857. /father Herman and grandmother Jozefina [Josephine] comes together with
her/.

Page 138; Cvibak /Zwieback/ Oskar, born 17 March 1878., Osijek I. , /parents: Ignjat [this is Croatian for Ignatz] and Matilda born. Vajsfeld/;
married, merchant, Jewish; wife: Cvibak born DajÄ? [Deutsch] Gizela, born 16 May 1885 in
Vienna, parents: Bernhard and Julie born Korn/ � [married] 5 January 1908 in Vienna by the Rabbinat [Rabbi's office?] of Jewish Community of
Districts XII-XV, Jewish; Note: he has a citizenship [he is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Osijek based
on a ground of a citizenship [â??ZaviÄ?ajnostâ??] of his parents Ignjat and Matilde, and he comes with them on a list of ZaviÄ?ajniks of this town.

Page 661 Rajhsman David, born 1875 in Djakovo, /died 9 December 1936 in Osijek; parents: Herman and Sofia born Bauer/; married, merchant,
Jewish; Wife: Rajhsman born Cvibak Janeta, born 188 in Osijek, Jewish, /remarried 6 December 1945 in Zagreb with Kasum ?; daughter of Ignac and
Malvina/; Note: he has a citizenship [he is â??ZaviÄ?ajnikâ??] of city of Osijek since 23. IX. 1934. based on al. [alinea; indent?] 4 §. 13. of
Law on city communities >from 22 August 1934.

Regards,
Ed Zwieback
Long Beach, California

Moderator: This is a one-time mention of a commercial product of interest to
subscribers. Please contact Ed off-list for additional information.

My Grandmother came >from Tykocin and her maiden name was Leibowitz. Her
mother's maiden name was variations of the spelling Kshevin, Krzewin,
Kchevin etc.

I hired a researcher to find the marriage record of my great grandparents
giving her the information I had. She sent me the marriage record of a
Josel Slepak, age 36 a widower and Braine Krzewin age 20. I did know that
my great grandfather had a first wife who had died. So when I got the
marriage record I was surprised to find that my great grandfather was
Josel Slepak (not Josel Leibowicz) son of deceased Lejb and living Rejza.

I figured that the researcher had made a mistake but my great grandmother's
name was unusual enough that I realized the researcher must have had the
correct record. The marriage record gave the names of my great grandmother's
parents so using that information to search JRI Poland I was able to find
the birth records of my great uncle Jankel Krzewin's birth and marriage.
That further supported that that was the correct marriage record.

Someone pointed out to me that Leibowitz was my great grandfather's
Patronymic. My great grandfather passed away when my grandmother was about
13 which was around 1906. Her sister was the first in the family to
immigrate in 1904 and she used the surname Leibowice. She was followed by
the oldest brother in 1906 and he also used the name Leibowice. So the
surname Leibowitz, not Slepak, was being used by the family in Poland
before my great grandfather passed away.

My question was why the entire family used the surname Leibowitz or
Leibowicz and not Slepak? Was there any precedent for taking the Patronymic
as the surname and dropping the "real" surname?

Meryl Rizzotti
RESEARCHING THE NAMES: SLEPAK, LEIBOWITZ, CYMES, SLUCKI, TEPEROWITZ,
DAVIDOWICZ

My Grandmother came >from Tykocin and her maiden name was Leibowitz. Her
mother's maiden name was variations of the spelling Kshevin, Krzewin,
Kchevin etc.

I hired a researcher to find the marriage record of my great grandparents
giving her the information I had. She sent me the marriage record of a
Josel Slepak, age 36 a widower and Braine Krzewin age 20. I did know that
my great grandfather had a first wife who had died. So when I got the
marriage record I was surprised to find that my great grandfather was
Josel Slepak (not Josel Leibowicz) son of deceased Lejb and living Rejza.

I figured that the researcher had made a mistake but my great grandmother's
name was unusual enough that I realized the researcher must have had the
correct record. The marriage record gave the names of my great grandmother's
parents so using that information to search JRI Poland I was able to find
the birth records of my great uncle Jankel Krzewin's birth and marriage.
That further supported that that was the correct marriage record.

Someone pointed out to me that Leibowitz was my great grandfather's
Patronymic. My great grandfather passed away when my grandmother was about
13 which was around 1906. Her sister was the first in the family to
immigrate in 1904 and she used the surname Leibowice. She was followed by
the oldest brother in 1906 and he also used the name Leibowice. So the
surname Leibowitz, not Slepak, was being used by the family in Poland
before my great grandfather passed away.

My question was why the entire family used the surname Leibowitz or
Leibowicz and not Slepak? Was there any precedent for taking the Patronymic
as the surname and dropping the "real" surname?

Meryl Rizzotti
RESEARCHING THE NAMES: SLEPAK, LEIBOWITZ, CYMES, SLUCKI, TEPEROWITZ,
DAVIDOWICZ

My French dictionary gives the definition for "negocjant" as
"wholesale merchant." Seems reasonable!

Fay Bussgang
Dedham, MA

My French dictionary gives the definition for "negocjant" as
"wholesale merchant." Seems reasonable!

Fay Bussgang
Dedham, MA

My gGrandfather, Moses Gluk, in Khorostcow was listed as Slager, Handelsman.
I would greatly appreciate a definition of these terms.

Roberta Bell
Long Beach California

RESEARCHING: GLUCK (Khorostcow, New York City) SPERLING, FITZER (Kolomya,
New York City) WALDMAN (Krakow, New York City) WEXLER (Storozhynets, New
York City)

My gGrandfather, Moses Gluk, in Khorostcow was listed as Slager, Handelsman.
I would greatly appreciate a definition of these terms.

Roberta Bell
Long Beach California

RESEARCHING: GLUCK (Khorostcow, New York City) SPERLING, FITZER (Kolomya,
New York City) WALDMAN (Krakow, New York City) WEXLER (Storozhynets, New
York City)

In hopes of making it easier for researchers with roots in Kovel to see what
mentions there may be of names familiar to them and their families, I have
added an index page to the Kovel site listing individuals >from or connected
with Kovel who are mentioned on various pages, or on other websites about
Kovel that are contained in the "links" section on the homepage. There are
some about whom there may be much information, others whose names appeared
just one time, such as in photo captions in the Kovel Yizkor book. I hope
this is of some service to researchers since the list can be searched using
the search function of the browser, (and I hope also it has an SEO benefit
for people searching the web). The headings in the index correspond to the
pages and links on the homepage where the document in which the names came
can be found. The names are reprinted as they appeared in the source
materials.

Here is the direct link, and it can also be found in the Links section on
the home page.

http://bit.ly/aC5EdG

Bruce Drake
Silver Spring, Md.

In hopes of making it easier for researchers with roots in Kovel to see what
mentions there may be of names familiar to them and their families, I have
added an index page to the Kovel site listing individuals >from or connected
with Kovel who are mentioned on various pages, or on other websites about
Kovel that are contained in the "links" section on the homepage. There are
some about whom there may be much information, others whose names appeared
just one time, such as in photo captions in the Kovel Yizkor book. I hope
this is of some service to researchers since the list can be searched using
the search function of the browser, (and I hope also it has an SEO benefit
for people searching the web). The headings in the index correspond to the
pages and links on the homepage where the document in which the names came
can be found. The names are reprinted as they appeared in the source
materials.

Here is the direct link, and it can also be found in the Links section on
the home page.

http://bit.ly/aC5EdG

Bruce Drake
Silver Spring, Md.