Date   
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen "Suess," Suessel" (Zissel), and Suesslein" ==Kinnuy? #general

MBernet@...
 

"Suess," Suessel" (Zissel), and Suesslein" . . . .

All three names are derived >from the German Suess = sweet.

Can anyone tell me with what Hebrew name it is associated as kinnuy? Was it
relatively more common in certain areas or eras?

My earliest known ancestor (forgetting Adam and Eve<g>) was Suessel (ben)
Hirsch of Frensdorf, Bavaria (near Bamberg), born ca 1645. Suessel's children
all were known by their patronymic, Suesslein .

TIA

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: What are banns? #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

In Fort William in Scotland, I have certainly seen the banns of the
marriage posted on the noticeboard outside the church.

Nick Landau
London England

Harold Pollins and others wrote about marriage banns:

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen copy cards free to good home #general

Irene Newhouse <newhoir@...>
 

I'm trying to reduce clutter & have some copy cards I'm not likely to use
again for the foreseeable future. If you can use one, tell me which one &
your snail-address. I have:

U. of Minnesota in the Twin Cities MN
2 >from Emory U., Atlanta GA

The U MN card should have a fair amount on it, the Emory cards are
probably pretty taped out, but they cost 50 cents to get.

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Private responses only, please.

"Suess," Suessel" (Zissel), and Suesslein" ==Kinnuy? #general

MBernet@...
 

"Suess," Suessel" (Zissel), and Suesslein" . . . .

All three names are derived >from the German Suess = sweet.

Can anyone tell me with what Hebrew name it is associated as kinnuy? Was it
relatively more common in certain areas or eras?

My earliest known ancestor (forgetting Adam and Eve<g>) was Suessel (ben)
Hirsch of Frensdorf, Bavaria (near Bamberg), born ca 1645. Suessel's children
all were known by their patronymic, Suesslein .

TIA

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester

Re: What are banns? #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

In Fort William in Scotland, I have certainly seen the banns of the
marriage posted on the noticeboard outside the church.

Nick Landau
London England

Harold Pollins and others wrote about marriage banns:

copy cards free to good home #general

Irene Newhouse <newhoir@...>
 

I'm trying to reduce clutter & have some copy cards I'm not likely to use
again for the foreseeable future. If you can use one, tell me which one &
your snail-address. I have:

U. of Minnesota in the Twin Cities MN
2 >from Emory U., Atlanta GA

The U MN card should have a fair amount on it, the Emory cards are
probably pretty taped out, but they cost 50 cents to get.

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Private responses only, please.

Lithuania SIG #Lithuania re: Boguelavicik #lithuania

Gil and Marcia DeVries <marciadv@...>
 

I just received my gmother's naturalization papers >from 1925. On the
Declaration of Intention it indicates she was born in Boguelavicik, on
the Petition for Citizenship, the town is spelled Boguelavick and
Bogoelavick.

I could not find any of these spellings or anything close in Chester
Cohen's Shtetl Finder, or in JewishGen's ShtetlSeeker. However, in
Schoenburg's Lithuanian Jewish Communities there is a Bogoslavishok
which is also in the ShtetlSeeker. Is Bogoslavishok the same as
Boguelavicik?

Thank you,
Marcia KATZEL DeVries
Coarsegold, Calif.
marciadv@...

Re: Boguelavicik #lithuania

Gil and Marcia DeVries <marciadv@...>
 

I just received my gmother's naturalization papers >from 1925. On the
Declaration of Intention it indicates she was born in Boguelavicik, on
the Petition for Citizenship, the town is spelled Boguelavick and
Bogoelavick.

I could not find any of these spellings or anything close in Chester
Cohen's Shtetl Finder, or in JewishGen's ShtetlSeeker. However, in
Schoenburg's Lithuanian Jewish Communities there is a Bogoslavishok
which is also in the ShtetlSeeker. Is Bogoslavishok the same as
Boguelavicik?

Thank you,
Marcia KATZEL DeVries
Coarsegold, Calif.
marciadv@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: What are banns? #general

torrance@...
 

The Andersons wrote:

To my knowledge, bans or banns are a notice ...

They are a good idea.

Here in New Zealand I have not heard of them being read or posted, but
do know of them >from general reading etc.

However, a marriage licence must be obtained >from the governmental
authorities (yes, a form of tax) a certain period before the intended
marriage.

Alan Torrance
Auckland
New Zealand

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kotish Money #general

roberta F Ponn <bobbiefp@...>
 

Could some kind genner tell me the meaning of the above phrase.? It was
used in a will (c1893) to describe money left to the Hebrew Union College
in memory of the will writer and his deceased wife. We do not have any
ideas.

Roberta Ponn
Jackson,MI

Re: What are banns? #general

torrance@...
 

The Andersons wrote:

To my knowledge, bans or banns are a notice ...

They are a good idea.

Here in New Zealand I have not heard of them being read or posted, but
do know of them >from general reading etc.

However, a marriage licence must be obtained >from the governmental
authorities (yes, a form of tax) a certain period before the intended
marriage.

Alan Torrance
Auckland
New Zealand

Kotish Money #general

roberta F Ponn <bobbiefp@...>
 

Could some kind genner tell me the meaning of the above phrase.? It was
used in a will (c1893) to describe money left to the Hebrew Union College
in memory of the will writer and his deceased wife. We do not have any
ideas.

Roberta Ponn
Jackson,MI

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Report from Auschwitz #general

HOLORO@...
 

I cried this afternoon in Auschwitz. This was not in my game plan.

My emotions started churning when I walked through the gate with the sign
overhead, "Arbeit Macht Frei", Work Makes You Free. I've seen pictures of the
sign many times, but walking under it, as so many of my family did, was
different.

I put on my yarmulka, which had been given out at my father's eightieth
birthday in 1979. I could have worn my hat, but I didn't want anyone to doubt
that I was a Jew.

After a short walk I came to a huge mound of earth with a chimney sticking out
of the top. Descending a stairway brought me into the gas chamber. There were
holes in the ceiling where canisters of gas were dropped on the unsuspecting
prisoners. I walked into the next room where the ovens consumed the bodies.

There was a conveyor belt, used to carry the bodies into the oven. On the belt
had been placed bouquets of flowers and some lighted Yahrzeit candles.

I started to recite the Mourner's Kaddish for the RUDEK (ROSEN), WAJS (WEISS),
MORDCHAJEWICZ, NOSKOWITZ and GORZEWSKI family members who died there. Half way
through, I started sobbing and I couldn't continue. After a while, I was to
able to finish the prayer.

After exiting the gas/oven chambers I continued through rows of prison
barracks. A number of them were utilized for displays of what the poor souls
went through. Any descriptions will have to wait for another time.

I'm glad that I was there on a week day. There were a great number of busses
full of Polish school children, ages fourteen to seventeen. I understand that
the Polish government mandates that all teenage children must visit the camp.

In addition to many Polish adults, I encountered a group of Norwegians, and
another of Japanese. There also was a bus load of German youths, seventeen and
eighteen years old.

Tomorrow morning, Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Howard L. Rosen holoro@...
Mountainside, NJ

I planned to stay two hours, but instead was there for five, when the camp was
closed to visitors.

Report from Auschwitz #general

HOLORO@...
 

I cried this afternoon in Auschwitz. This was not in my game plan.

My emotions started churning when I walked through the gate with the sign
overhead, "Arbeit Macht Frei", Work Makes You Free. I've seen pictures of the
sign many times, but walking under it, as so many of my family did, was
different.

I put on my yarmulka, which had been given out at my father's eightieth
birthday in 1979. I could have worn my hat, but I didn't want anyone to doubt
that I was a Jew.

After a short walk I came to a huge mound of earth with a chimney sticking out
of the top. Descending a stairway brought me into the gas chamber. There were
holes in the ceiling where canisters of gas were dropped on the unsuspecting
prisoners. I walked into the next room where the ovens consumed the bodies.

There was a conveyor belt, used to carry the bodies into the oven. On the belt
had been placed bouquets of flowers and some lighted Yahrzeit candles.

I started to recite the Mourner's Kaddish for the RUDEK (ROSEN), WAJS (WEISS),
MORDCHAJEWICZ, NOSKOWITZ and GORZEWSKI family members who died there. Half way
through, I started sobbing and I couldn't continue. After a while, I was to
able to finish the prayer.

After exiting the gas/oven chambers I continued through rows of prison
barracks. A number of them were utilized for displays of what the poor souls
went through. Any descriptions will have to wait for another time.

I'm glad that I was there on a week day. There were a great number of busses
full of Polish school children, ages fourteen to seventeen. I understand that
the Polish government mandates that all teenage children must visit the camp.

In addition to many Polish adults, I encountered a group of Norwegians, and
another of Japanese. There also was a bus load of German youths, seventeen and
eighteen years old.

Tomorrow morning, Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Howard L. Rosen holoro@...
Mountainside, NJ

I planned to stay two hours, but instead was there for five, when the camp was
closed to visitors.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Dates on certificates #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Sandra asked:

So here's my question: can we suppose that the age given in the marriage
certificate is more accurate than the ones given on the birth certificates of
the person's children? I am assuming that when a man got married, all his
documents or other information were checked, and maybe when they registered a
child, this was not that important. Can I assume this?
Alas, no, you can't rely on them having checked birth certificates, etc.
I've found numerous discrepancies between birth and marriage certificates
in my own family.

My grandfather was born on Feb 8th 1864, as was reported in an Auckland NZ
newspaper dated Feb 9th -- yet his certificate gives Feb 15th, which
obviously must be wrong! We don't know whether my ggf got confused about
the date when he registered his son's birth five weeks later, or whether he
simply fudged it to avoid a fine for being out of time in filing the
information!

Thirty-eight years later, when he married my grandmothe in 1903. the
marriage certificate says he was only 36. It also states erroneously my
grandmother was 24, yet her b.c. shows that had just turned 25. It beats
me what the motivation to give false information could have been in this
case. Maybe the room was noisy and the clerk misheard what they said to
him?

Here's another one: One of my great aunts and her husband, whose birth
records I have, did just the opposite -- they inflated their ages. both
claiming to be 21 on their English marriage certificate. Since the cert.
also indicates that they married in a registry office rather than a
synaogue, I have to conclude that they eloped due to family opposition to
the match, and had to claim they were 21 because otherwise they would have
needed parental consent in writing.

In these last two cases, it seems fairly that the parties cannot possibly
have produced their birth certificates, or the clerk would surely have
noticed the discrepancies. So it looks as though registry clerks simply
took the parties' ages on trust unless they seemed obviously impossible!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...

Dates on certificates #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Sandra asked:

So here's my question: can we suppose that the age given in the marriage
certificate is more accurate than the ones given on the birth certificates of
the person's children? I am assuming that when a man got married, all his
documents or other information were checked, and maybe when they registered a
child, this was not that important. Can I assume this?
Alas, no, you can't rely on them having checked birth certificates, etc.
I've found numerous discrepancies between birth and marriage certificates
in my own family.

My grandfather was born on Feb 8th 1864, as was reported in an Auckland NZ
newspaper dated Feb 9th -- yet his certificate gives Feb 15th, which
obviously must be wrong! We don't know whether my ggf got confused about
the date when he registered his son's birth five weeks later, or whether he
simply fudged it to avoid a fine for being out of time in filing the
information!

Thirty-eight years later, when he married my grandmothe in 1903. the
marriage certificate says he was only 36. It also states erroneously my
grandmother was 24, yet her b.c. shows that had just turned 25. It beats
me what the motivation to give false information could have been in this
case. Maybe the room was noisy and the clerk misheard what they said to
him?

Here's another one: One of my great aunts and her husband, whose birth
records I have, did just the opposite -- they inflated their ages. both
claiming to be 21 on their English marriage certificate. Since the cert.
also indicates that they married in a registry office rather than a
synaogue, I have to conclude that they eloped due to family opposition to
the match, and had to claim they were 21 because otherwise they would have
needed parental consent in writing.

In these last two cases, it seems fairly that the parties cannot possibly
have produced their birth certificates, or the clerk would surely have
noticed the discrepancies. So it looks as though registry clerks simply
took the parties' ages on trust unless they seemed obviously impossible!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen weekdays permissible for weddings #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Herbert Lazerow wrote:

I have been told that the
Talmud declares that virgins are married on Wednesday, widows on Thursday.
Either these injunctions were not strictly followed in Ukraine, or there is
some third category, because I have found weddings taking place on other days
of the week. Saturday night and Sunday seem to be the days of choice in the
U.S., regardless of previous marital status.
Actually, your informant was in error: he/she has misunderstood the
force of the relevant mishnaic rule. It was and is perfectly O.K. to get
married on other days of the week (except Friday and Shabbat).

Your informant mistranslated -- and therefore misunderstood -- the force of
the preposition "LE-" which can have many meanings. In this particular
case, the text of Mishnah Ketubbot 1:1 ("LE-yom ha-revi'i" and "LE-yom
ha-hamishi") does not mean ON Wednesday or ON Thursday respectively
(depending whether virgin or widow) but only BY the specified days. The
purpose of this rule (as discussed at p. 21 of my book Chattel or
Person? The Status of Women in the Mishnah, Oxford Univ Press 1992,
paperback) is that virgins must be married BY Wednesday of the particular
week (the week begins on Sunday) because this will still allow time for a
bridegroom aggrieved by the discovery that the bride was not a virgin to
rush around to the Thursday court session ( as the Mishnah itself points
out, the rabbinic court convened on Mondays and Thursdays) with his
complaint while the evidence -- or lack thereof! -- was still "fresh."
(If he was lying, her parents could bring the bloodstained sheets to refute
his claim, so that they would not have to return the bride-price of virgins
that had been paid to the bride's father!)

In the case of a widow, this was obviously not an issue (as the groom
was not entitled to expect a widow to be a virgin -- and in any case had
paid only the brideprice of widows, which was half that of virgins!).
Therefore, a widow could get married as late as Thursday -- but should be
married BY Thursday, because Friday and Shabbat were "out" due to
religious requirements of preparing for Shabbat and of Shabbat observance
itself.

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Let's not go any farther down this road-while the days of
the week maybe genealogically relevant, it seems to this observer that
nothing more on this topic can be added that is. End of thread.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Reb is not Rav! #general

torrance@...
 

Richard Tasgal wrote:

Judith Romney Wegner <jrw@...> writes:

[....]

If the deceased had been a rabbi, it would have said H-R-V (HaRav, lit.
"the Rabbi") followed by his name.
In my searching I have come across (albeit in a book rather than a grave
stone), for a rabbi, the abbreviation R"R, for "Rav Reb."

As an aside, the usage of Reb strikes me as being very similar to the
Polish Pan or Pani ...

Use of R' on tombstones tends to be restricted (a least in Orthodox
minchag here in New Zealand) to indicate someone who had high moral
stature in the community, and is directed to be written on the stone
by direction of the rabbi -- not by the family of the deceased.

Alan Torrance
Auckland
New Zealand

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Grodno Yeshiva and Haftorah Reading #general

Paul Silverstone <paulh@...>
 

Jose Gutstein wrote:

Does anyone know when Grodno Yeshiva was shut ...
Grodno was in the Russian occupied part of Poland and was not occupied by the
Germans until after June 21, 1941. You do not state where his home town was -
in which partof Poland , the German western part or Russian eastern part. If
Sokolka was in the German occupied zone, he would have been unable to return and
presumably celebrated his bar-mitzvah in Grodno during the 20 months remaining
between the two invasions.
--
Paul Silverstone
New York

reply to: paulh@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: SZCZECINIARZ, STOLIK #general

rita <rivke@...>
 

This is my first discussion group message so please be gentle with me.

I have listed these searches on Family Finder so I'm not sure about the
protocol of doing it here but it seems to be acceptable. So here goes.

I am searching for information/contacts etc regarding my family.
Principal names are my father's side: SZCZECINIARZ (Jankiel/Yankel) and
my mother's STOLIK(Shayndel/Szjandel). The families came >from LUBLIN,
KOCK, and SEROKOMLA and also FIRLEJ.

My parents escaped to Russia during the war, the remainder of the
families died most probably in Belzec except for a half brother of my
mother's who got to France. I met him (Icek STOLIK) in 1968 but have
lost contact with the family there even though I have searched the
French telephone directories. A nephew of my father's. Menashe
SZCZECINIARZ, made it to Israel and was found by my parents in 1975. He
has since died and I have lost contact with his family.

Our diminished family (my parents, my brother Chaim and myself) migrated
to Australia in 1950. My parents have died and typically, I am now
interested in my family history when there is noone left to ask!

In my research and contacts with JewishGen so far I have had no response
to my searches for the names or towns listed. Is there anyone out there
who might be of help?

Rita Nash
aka Rivke Szczeciniarz

from the Antopides/Down Under/Oz