Date   

Who knows Chaim Kushnir from Pavolotsh ? #ukraine

Jana.Tegel@...
 

I am searching for my relatives Kushnir from the Ukraine. My grandmother Basya (Betya) born in 1917, has spoken about her hometown Pavolotsh and sometimes about Polonnoye. Her father's name was Chaim.
Does anybody know something more?

Jana Tegel
Jana.Tegel@...


Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

Bob,  You are beating a dead horse.   Names were NOT changed at Ellis Island.   Bureaucrats generate paper  -- that's how the justify their positions...If changes occurred at EI, there would be documentation.... but there is none.

If you go into Starbucks, and the barista writes Bahb on your cup, is there anything obligation on your part to use that as your name from then on?   Of course not.  So, if the  immigrant wais not given a legal binding order saying "This is you name from now on..."    

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ


Re: Origin of the name BIALYI #names #belarus

Glenda Rubin
 

My family (from NY) were language sticklers.  We called this baked good, kuchens or Bialystocker kuchens, where they, presumably, originated.  My guess is that kuchen is Yiddish, derived from cake in German.  My parents would get annoyed when people called them bialys and wouldn't hesitate to correct them, which of course had no effect. 😏

Glenda [Rubin]
Richmond, CA, USA


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:16 PM Kris Murawski <krismurawski24@...> wrote:
I believed always it was the Americab name of a bagel variety from Bialystok. It was known in Poland as „cebulak” (onion-bagel”). 


--
=========================================
Glenda Rubin
San Francisco Bay Area
Researching: STRYZEWSKI, STRAUSS, JANOFSKY, JANOFF, OBODOV, WERNICK, GREENBERG, KROCHAK. Shtetls: Lipovets, Ilintsy, Pliskov, Starokonstantinov, Krasilov


Re: Origin of the name BIALYI #names #belarus

Jules Levin
 

Belarus has nothing to do with White Russians in the Revolution. The
Whites were called white to show they were not Reds.  White Russia is
was used for that area to distinguish it from Great Russia and Little
Russia, the latter being Ukaine.  It was called 'white' because it was
in the Baltic region.  The Baltic Sea means white.  Is it confusing?  No
more so than that the red states in the USA are not communists.

Jules Levin


On 7/16/2020 11:44 AM, Sally Bruckheimer via groups.jewishgen.org wrote:
Bialy means white, like Bialyrus, now Belarus, but they were the White
Russians in the Revolution. Bialys are like bagels with a dent instead
of a hole in the middle, usually with onions or something in the
middle, their origin, I believe, was Bailystok.
Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


No More Genealogical Info on Lithuiana Family #lithuania

William Levine
 

Hi, I found the birth entry below  on the Lithuanian data base for an apparent brother of my great-grandfather, Jacob Levin who immigrated to Boston in 1888.  could find no additional records for the entry below on any Jewish Gen Lithuanian data base or on Ancestry data base search, used with the assumption that Beyle below may have immigrated to the U.S  
 
i was hoping that someone could suggest some other research vehicle  to look into for info om Brytlr
 
So michd
LEVIN, Beyle Freyde
 
Efraim, Yakov 
 
Libe, Shmuel 
 
 
3/1/1855
 
25 Tevet 
 
Bagaslaviskis 
 
Vilnius 
 
Vilnius 
 
Father was a shoemaker; maternal grandfather, a potter.
 
Bagaslaviskis 
 
1855 
 
F1 
 
2157999 / 3 
 
 
LVIA/728/1/130 
 


Re: Reading the digest is becoming more difficult.... #general

Adelle Gloger
 

I would whole heartedly agree with him. I, too, have been a very long time reader of the Jewishgen digest, and find that those who submit posts probably need to review the protocol. I would like to add that when asking for a translation, in addition to indicating the language, PLEASE somewhere in your message indicate a surname. That would help determine if that request might be of interest to others interested in that name.
 
Thanks,
Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Cleveland, Ohio USA
 
 
Alberto Guido Chester of Buenos Aires, Argentina posted:
  
Reading the digest is becoming more difficult.... #general
From: Alberto Guido Chester
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 18:03:35 EDT
As a long time reader of Jewishgen Digest, I have noticed that due to the increased volume of posts it is becoming more difficult every day to follow the threads.
 
I strongly suggest Jewisgenners to QUOTE part of the post they are answering (or answering privately if the answer is not of help to the community).
 
This has been mentioned a couple of days ago by another long time Jewishgenner, Mr David Lewin of London.
 
Finally, please do not forget to sign with your FULL name and LOCATION as moderators frequently remind us to do.

Alberto Guido Chester
Buenos Aires, Argentina


Re: Lejcek family, Lake Placid #usa

Alexander Sharon
 

There are few folks associated with Lake Placid that are listed in JGFF database.

Look at "search" at:

https://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/

Alexander Sharon
JGFF editor


SSDI claim dates #general

Peter Heilbrunn
 

What to Claim dates refer to on SSDI forms and why can they be materially different from the date of death.

 

Regards,

 

Peter

 

Peter Heilbrunn

Tel +44 (0)1494 725966

Amersham England

 


Re: Gospitalna Street in Minsk #belarus

Gerald and Margaret
 

Try the Together Plan, a Jewish charity based in Minsk and London:  They will help with all genealogical enquiries 

office@...


Courland Was It Within the Russian Empire but not in the Pale of Settlement #russia

Marilyn Levinson
 

Dear Researchers
I recently discovered ancestors from Courland.  I found an article that said Courland was part of the Russian Empire, but not part of the Pale of Settlement.  However, the article goes on to state that there were Jews living in Courland but Jews in the Pale could not move to Courland.  If this is correct were the lives of Jews in Courland
diffferent from the lives of the Jews of the Pale? Would Alexander I's statute of 1804 include the Jews of Courland, would the May Laws apply to the Jews of Courland?  Thank you for your help.
Marilyn Levinson
Spring Lake NC


Sobel from Hungary #hungary

dan@...
 

More than half a century ago, I was told (how reliably I can't say) that all Hungarian Jews with ancestors named Sobel/Szobel are related. So this is an appeal to everyone in that group.

My g-g-g-grandfather Moses Isaac Sobel (1810?-1862?) raised 10 children in the village of Luko, Saros County (now Lukov,Slovakia), about 9 miles due west of Bartfa (now Bardejov). His wife Rachel Leah Schreiber came from Stropkov in Zemplen County. Until recently, I was missing the name of one of their children. But when the 1857 census came on line about a year ago, I found that missing child: Hersko, born in 1852. Since Moses Isaac Sobel had several other descendants named Herman or some variation born in the mid-1850s, I speculate that Moses Isaac's father may have been named Herman, perhaps died about 1850. If this rings a bell with you, please let me know.

About Hersko Sobel (b. 1850) I know nothing aside from that 1857 census entry plus a hint provided in the memoirs of my great-uncle written in the mid-1950s: He said Moses Isaac Sobel had four sons, of whom one remained in Luko, one went to Romania, and two came to the U.S. Since I'm familiar with the other three brothers, by a process of elimination I've concluded that Hersko must have come to America. But I've yet to find any trace of him in any U.S. records. I've found other Herman Sobels, some of whom are also related to me. For example: Herman Sobel (1857-1942, a son of Israel and Fani Grunberger Sobel), who died in Chicago; and Herman Sobel (c 1841-1940), son of Emanuel Sobel, who also died in Chicago. And I've found Herman Sobels in the U.S. who were born in Russia or Poland.

So please— if you know of anyone named Herman Sobel or some variation of Herman (Hirsch, Zvi, etc.), born c. 1852 and died in the U.S., let me know. I'll be grateful for any lead, no matter how slender.
Dan Rottenberg
Philadelphia PA
dan@... 
     


The ADLER / ORNSTEIN families from Siedlce #general #holocaust #israel

דוד נ.א.
 

I am looking for information about the ADLER / OENSTEIN families, who
lived from Siedlce, Poland between 1900-1942.
David Adler, who was married to Feiga Handel (or Eidel) nee Orenstein,
daughter of Shepsa and Sarah.
Their children: Esther, Moses, Elijah, Chaya, Rachel.

And I am also looking for the people who left pages of testimony at Yad Vashem:
Masha Hershkovitz from Netanya, Israel, Feiga Marcus from Netanya, and
Zvi Tzachanovsky from Haifa.

Thank you
David Nesher
Israel


Re: Two death Dates On Lithuanian Data Base #lithuania #general

William Levine
 

Thx you so much for your help. It turned out  that needed to look for Efraim not  Efroim so  my question was  unnecessary. But your point is valuable in understanding that same name combos don;t always indicate the same indivudual


Re: Help Reading town name #names

ewkent@...
 

Hi.

I see "Galicia" (a region -- now in southern Poland and western Ukraine; once part of the "Kingdom of Austria" within the Habsburg/Austro-Hungarian Empire) -- with (fainter) "Aus" (presumably for "Austria") -- in the top line; I see (like at least 1 other reader) "Budapest" (but with "Hun" (again, fainter; this time probably an abbreviation for "Hungary"; the city was (naturally) part of the "Kingdom of Hungary" under the later Habsburg Empire (and has been capital of republics of Hungary since) ) .

Good luck with Galicia (it's a large region, and definitely not a single "shtetl" or place).

(All I knew of the origins of one grandfather's family was "Galicia" -- before I was able to find records (primarily (US) naturalization records) which pinpointed the place from which his mother, his siblings (then born; some were later born in the US) , and he emigrated.)

Ethan Kent -- in New York City.


"His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

YaleZuss@...
 

We should thank James Castellan for calling our attention to the Philip Sutton article (https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island) since it plays a major role in propagating the meme that involuntary name-changes during immigration (there are similar narratives for other ports of entry) weren't possible. Some of the items on the list provided us by Barbara Mannlein a few weeks ago cite this article; others, not on her list, do as well. This is going to take some time, so bear with me.
 
There are several basic issues. Immigration procedures were even messier than Bob Bloomberg suggests. Congressional debate on HR 15442, which became the Naturalization Act of 1906, addresses actual fraud in the process involving agents of the Immigration Service. IS employees benefited from selling "duplicates" of immigration documents to an organization that then resold them, primarily in Italy. Other IS agents manipulated the naturalization process to enable immigrants who might vote for their party to become citizens faster. These were criminal acts, even then, so people who believe such agents would be meticulous about not changing immigrant names, which wasn't a violation of law at all, bear the burden of proving their beliefs. Anyone who wishes to check this out is free to start reading the Congressional Record.
 
The Sutton article raises key questions about the validity of the meme itself. He provides three "proofs," none of which can stand up to scrutiny:
 
Sutton's first "proof" begins with "Numerous blogs, essays, and books have proven" that involuntary name-changes could not have occurred. Such claims are standard in "proofs" of the meme, but while they invariably fail to specify where such a proof can be found, Sutton quotes at length from Vincent Cannato's American Passage: The History of Ellis Island including the statement "Nearly all ... name change stories are false." "Nearly all" implies that some such stories are true, which would disprove the "no involuntary name-changes" meme.
 
I read Cannato's book, which includes a statement of the meme and endnotes that identify his sources, but neither the book nor the references cited contains a proof. I then contacted him to learn whether "Nearly" meant what I had supposed. He responded that the conclusion that involuntary name-changes could not have occurred is based on what actually happened in the Great Hall at Ellis Island. He hadn't studied this issue in detail (his research was on the role operating Ellis Island played in establishing the American approach to bureaucracy); his "Nearly" was simply a hedge against the possibility that one or more cases might emerge where such a change did occur. Citing the meme, or citing a source that cites the meme, is hardly a proof.
 
Sutton's second "proof," involving the "One That Was," is a reference to the case of a Mary Johnson who chose to re-enter the United States dressed as a man and using the masculine name Frank Woodhull. Mary had adopted this name and identity after her initial entry from Canada, some thirty years earlier, when there were no federal immigration controls, because the job opportunities available to men were much greater than those open to women. Frank/Mary was referred for a medical inspection while re-entering, and recognizing that competent medical personnel would probably realize she was a woman, gave herself up. She went before a Board of Special Inquiry, which allowed her to enter. Immigration officials changed "Frank Woodhull" to "Mary Johnson" on the arrival document.
 
Contact with the Historian's Office at USCIS revealed that they believe Sutton has misunderstood or misrepresented what happened here: It was the listing for Mary that was changed rather than her name; she continued to live as Frank Woodhull. By virtue of having lived in the United States for thirty years, she appears to have known she was free to call herself whatever she wished. One of the arguments made to me when I first heard the meme was that Americans were free to do so. Making this a "proof" of the meme requires establishing that immigrants who had never been to America shared Mary/Frank's understanding of American law. Not likely.
 
Sutton's third "proof" is a claim that there was no contemporary discussion of name-changes, which is a form of the logical error known as an argument from ignorance (The best known of these is "Absence of evidence is evidence of absence," known to be false for centuries.) but then goes on to discuss an article he found in an entertainment column in The Washington Post from April 10, 1944, that does so. That article reports that a musician named Harry Friedman was reverting to his pre-immigration surname, Zarief. Sutton appears to have totally missed the context for this article: Mrs. Friedman/Zarief had just given birth to quadruplets and publicity was good for his career.
 
Sutton claims there are no other such items, but I found one, by sheer luck, dating to 1897. What would a comprehensive search of all media, including those in languages other than English, reveal? Sutton doesn't know, so this claim doesn't prove anything either.
 
The upshot is that the gold standard "proof" of the meme doesn't actually prove anything. It is built of claims that represent either misunderstanding or misrepresenting the evidence. The dozen or so other "proofs" of the meme I have found share this weakness, and some are credible only to true believers: One such adherent told me that whatever the law said, immigration officials would ignore it to do what genealogists would want a century later...
 
There is a mechanism that would lead immigrants to believe their names had been changed at Ellis Island, or other ports of entry.  This mechanism is included in an earlier abridged version of my study of this topic as "Involuntary Name Changes: The Real Story,"  in Avotaynu, Vol. 34, #1, Spring, 2018, p.~34. 
 
Contrary to Joel Weintraub, I believe the real issue here is whether the "No involuntary name-changes at Ellis Island" meme has led to the abandonment of narratives that contained genealogical information not available through any other means, and thus to its loss: You can't tell people that their narratives are fake without leading at least some of them to abandon them and thus prevent their transmission to a subsequent generation. Since stopping their transmission was the goal of advocates of the meme, they cannot now claim that there has been no such loss, unless they can prove that all the narratives are indeed false. But they haven't even tried to do that; instead, we have the meme. To make their point, they would also have to prove that narratives long-since abandoned were also false, but there's no obvious way to even identify them.
 
I note that there has been no systematic effort to disparage any other type of family narrative. Each narrative, including the name-change ones, should be checked out and not abandoned unless or until it has been proven individually to be false.
 
This meme has been effectively and aggressively marketed, which is fundamentally different from being proved, but that puts it on an equal footing with breakfast cereals. To the best of my knowledge, "involuntary name-changes on immigration" is the only area of intellectual discourse in which one side demands that the price of not being ridiculed is abandonment of the bulk of the evidence that proves that that side's beliefs are wrong.
 
What remains is to figure out why this meme emerged. I have requested a document from NARA that may contain, or point to, the answer, and as I suggested early in this thread, it would be wise to refrain from making additional unsupportable claims until it can be analyzed.
 
Yale Zussman



Re: Origin of the name BIALYI #names #belarus

Sally Bruckheimer
 

Bialy means white, like Bialyrus, now Belarus, but they were the White Russians in the Revolution. Bialys are like bagels with a dent instead of a hole in the middle, usually with onions or something in the middle, their origin, I believe, was Bailystok.
 
Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Bob Bloomberg
 

Exactly my point: "There are instances of immigrants who changed their names, but the ship manifests were not the place where the changes happened... [then where?]  Ellis?] although in some cases, an immigrant may have decided to adopt an inadvertent misspelling. [emphasis added]


Re: Origin of the name BIALYI #names #belarus

Kris Murawski
 

I believed always it was the Americab name of a bagel variety from Bialystok. It was known in Poland as „cebulak” (onion-bagel”). 


Re: Origin of the name BIALYI #names #belarus

Alexander Sharon
 

"White" in several Slavic languages

Alexander Sharon


Re: Rabbi Aharon WEINSTEIN from Rosulno #rabbinic #galicia

Yehuda Horovitz
 

The sources are all in Hebrew. and listed in Meorei Galicia  by Rabbi Meir Wunder, vol 2 Jerusalem 1981, page 854