Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: LANGSCHUR of Ronsperg , Bohemia marries EHRENREICH of Brody, Galicia #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

This posting answers the question about Alexander EHRENREICH's [Brody & Prague]
difficult-to-deciper occupation, so please read on .....

I am happy to say that my original posting has already elicited a great
response >from four LANGSCHUR descendants - at least three are members of this

I also now have a LANGSCHUR family tree going back to the early 1700s. This
shows the maternal line of the LANGSCHUR family appeared to arise from
Metzling/Meclov, Bohemia before marrying Nathan Loebl of Ronsperg/Pobezovice,
Bohemia - who may have been the first LANGSCHUH LANGSCHUR or LANGSCHNUR -
[these are the various spellings I have found].

At least one branch of the family moved to the USA quite early. Resi who
married Alexander EHRENREICH of Brody was indeed the granddaughter of Aaron we
find in the 1793 census. The family tree lists the fact that Resi LANGSCHUR
married an unknown EHRENREICH but that is all - so now the extended family has
a whole new branch to explore.

This brings me to the missing data - I wrote "I am now deciphering Alexander's
[EHRENREICH of Brody, Galicia] occupation" :

Thanks to a dedicated decipherer of this old German script, I now know that
Alexander was truly a new man of the Industrial Revolution - gone are the
Galician Pinkel/Binkl Juden [pedlars/peddlers], Flusssieder/distillers and
textile dealers of yesteryear; Alexander was an *Agent mehrere Dampfmuhlen* -
ie an agent for various steam mills/engines.

Alexander may well have supplied many of the Jewish industrialists of Prague
with their steam engines.

The maternal line is also represented in the 1793 census of Bohemia:

Metzling/Meclov, Klattauer Kreis [Schutz von Ronsperg] Vol V p264 - Juda
GRUNHUT aged 47 [textile dealer ]; Wife Judith 19 [this must be 29 or 39 -
unless Judith is a second-wife!]; children Wolf 9; Jakob 1; Sara 8
Living with them was Juda's mother, Rebekka GRUNHUT aged 66

I also have the name KLAUBER in Metzling - which links with GLAUBER on the tree

= I suspect it must be the same family.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech MICHELSTADTER - HANOVER marriage banns - Nikolsburg 1857 #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

This time there are about 6 days to go before this item comes up for auction on
the best-known internet auction site.

The document concerns the announcement of the marriage banns [three time
27.9.1857 and 9/10th October 1857] in the Altschul Synagogue, Nikolsburg,
Moravia between Jacob MICHELSTADTER and Julie HANOVER of Alt Ofen, Hungary -


The document is headed *Publikationsschein* and is dated Nikolsburg 22.11.1857.

I cannot find any MICHELSTADTER in the Nikolsburg cemetery database:

but here is a *Jacques* buried in Vienna, who could possibly be our Jacob.

MICHELSTADTER Jacques age 66 buried 11 June 1889
Zentralfriedhof Gate 1 Group 8 Row 6 grave 39N

I have never seen the designation N after the grave number in Vienna
Zentralfriedhof before. There are also a few HANOVER buried in Vienna and some
are quite early ie born abt 1840 in ?

If you check MICHELSTADTER on yad vashem, you come up with a cluster in
Italy/Gorizia - this is one of the oldest victims:

Emma MICHELSTAEDTER nee LUZZATTO was born in Gorizia, Italy in 1854 to Leona
and Regina. She was a housewife and married to Alberto. Prior to WWII she lived
in Gorizia, Italy. During the war she was in Gorizia, Italy. Emma perished in
the Shoah at the age of 90. ...POT submitted on 10/05/1999 by Marcello MORPURGO
in Israel.

There are also a few MICHELSTADTER victims >from Hungary, Germany and Holland,
but none >from Bohemia or Moravia. We remember them all here today.

In Prague, we see this family >from Jicin and I presume they are Jewish,
although I have never seen the name GOLIATH before:

GOLIATH Markus (1810); GOLIATH (nee MICHAELSTAEDTER) Theresia (1818) with
children: Franziska (1843); Gustav (1845); Eleonora (1846) & Henriette (1851).

Markus was a book-keeper with the oil producer FISCHEL and *yes* there are
GOLIATH buried in Vienna. Whether any of these are related to our engaged
couple *Jacob and Julie* we can can only speculate, but it only goes to show,
once again, how far and wide these names and people spread and what emerges if
you look at a document with enquiring eyes.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Langschur - Bohemian steam power and Jewish entrepreneurs #Austria-Czech

Paul King <samorai@...>

In answer to Celia Male's posting of 12 June and the question "How many
companies were selling complete steam-driven mills?", the question might
better be put "How many cotton-printing companies were purchasing
steam-driven machinery?'

My understanding is that Langschur was peddling these engines, not making
them. The technology for the Bohemian industrial revolution was largely
furnished by Scottish and German firms. Innovations were carried out in
textile plants, a high percentage of which was operated by Jewish
entrepreneurs, but they were not associated with steam power.

Agent mehrere Dampfmuhlen* -
i.e., an agent for various steam mills/engines.

Most cotton printing plants even in the 1840s were powered by water; only
two (less than 2% of the total) had steam-driven engines. This is one
reason why Bohemia's largely Jewish-driven industrial revolution lacked
generational continuity.

Paul King

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Interviews and Jewish Genealogy on Website "Tracing Your Family Roots" #Austria-Czech

Herbert Huebscher <huebsch@...>

As a member of the Austria-Czech SIG, I would like to make others
aware of a website, named "Tracing Your Family Roots," that features
interviews on Jewish Genealogy.
The interview of Bennett Greenspan, President and CEO of Family Tree
DNA, was posted on May 24, and is available for viewing through a
link on the site.
The most recent interview posted on the site is that of myself (Herb
Huebscher), reporting on our on-going DNA based Jewish Genealogy
project regarding the WIRTH group. (WIRTH is an acronym, standing for
the first five families identified as belonging to the group. The
group now includes 58 individuals comprising 42 families.) If you are
interested in the application of DNA to Jewish genealogy, I suggest
you might want to take in that interview as well as the previous one
by Bennett. We will be making a presentation on our WIRTH project at
the 2007 IAJGS conference in Salt Lake City on Friday morning, July 20.
There are many other interviews of interest on the site. One done one
year ago is also of interest >from a DNA point of view, namely that of
Sonia Rosa. Her father (and her paternal ancestral family) are part
of the WIRTH group.

You can access all the interviews by going to

and selecting, and clicking on the interview of interest to you.

Herb Huebscher

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Researching SHULKIND from Vienna or Lemberg #Austria-Czech

Jeff Shulkind <jeffsh47@...>

I am researching the history of my family and in
particular my great grandfather Saul (or Sal or Sol)
SHULKIND who came >from Vienna or Lemberg. He was born
in about 1857, married Eva Lemberger and emigrated to
England in the 1890's with at least 3 children.


Jeff Shulkind
Liverpool England

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Prague Conscriptions/Meldezettel #Austria-Czech <Zimmer-Luedinghausen@...>

Hi list,

the Prague National Archive has added another 120 000 (now 467 866)
entries to their online datatbase.

There is also an introduction now which as well as the page itself is
given in English, which makes searching the site easier.

Peter Zimmer
Muenster, Germany

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech MICHELSTADTER at the Leipzig Fair [1716-1755] and in Gorizia #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

re my posting on the 1857 Nikolsburg "MICHELSTADTER - HANOVER" banns yesterday,
I knew I had seen early MICHELSTA{E}DTER in Nikolsburg mentioned before and
Jaroslav Klenovsky told me* [see footnote] that this name as well as HANOVER
was found there. Now I have remembered where I saw the references:

In the 17th and 18th centuries, the three fairs at Leipzig were the most
important business events of Europe..... Jewish merchants played a major role
in the success of the Leipzig Fair and the preparations for the departure for
Leipzig were a major part of the social life of every Jewish community.
Substantial numbers of Jewish merchants >from Nikolsburg travelled to Leipzig
for the fairs every year .....

We can read the following names followed by the fairs they attended:
[please look at the other names too!]

Abraham MICHELSTADTER, 1719-28, 1730-35, 1737-43, often with servants
Aron MICHELSTADTER, 1721-40, 1742-44, 1746, 1755
Abraham Aron MICHELSTADTER, 1738-39 with Bernhard GOLDSCHMIDT, 1743-44 alone
Loebel MICHELSTADTER, 1716, 1718
Gerson Loebel MICHELSTADTER, 1736, 1741, 1743-44, 1746-47, 1749

You will also see seven Michelstadter buried here in Nova Gorica: {10667}
Alternate name: Rozna Dolina

As there are no MICHELSTADTER apparently listed in the Nikolsburg cemetery
I wonder if they all emigrated and some perhaps settled in Trieste/Gorizia
where they intermarried with other leading families like the LUZZATTO and

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnote - translated >from Jaroslav's German email [I have permission to
quote]: The name MICHELSTADTER was common in Nikolsburg/Mikulov in the
17th-19th centuries. For example, one of the six oldest synagogues waa called
the Michelstadter Synagogue (founded abt 1675). There are many references to
MICHELSTADTER in the old land/property registers [Grundbucher] of Mikulov. As
far as I know, the name HANOVER was also found in Mikulov.

Thank you Jaroslav.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech re; Alexander EHRENREICH of Brody/Prague - agent for "Dampfmuhlen". #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

re the modern Mr Alexander EHRENREICH of Brody/Prague who was a new man of the
industrial revolution - his occupation was stated as "Agent mehrere

A correspondent wrote to me: "As to EHRENREICH's occupation: steam engine would
be Dampfmaschine, not Dampfmuehle. A Dampfmuehle was more likely a mill
powered by a steam engine. I know there was a mill in Ronsperg, whether
powered by water or a steam I do not know."

I am not entering this industrial minefield. Perhaps there was a fine dividing
line - I wonder what Alexander really sold or represented as an "Agent"?

How many companies were selling complete steam-driven mills? Probably some in
the UK for the cotton/textile industry - I suspect Alexander did a package of
whatever people wanted ie mills, engines, pistons, kettles, vessels - the lot!
Will we ever know?

He probably travelled to the UK to see them, but alas we have not got the
wonderful ships manifests you have in the USA!

I am sure Paul King will let us have his views.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Prague National Archive #Austria-Czech

Charles Mahler

Hello to You
Peter Zimmer wrote the Prague National Archive has added another 120 000
(now 467 866)entries to their online datatbase.
Would it be possible to give the web address ( URL) of the Prague National
Many thanks
Charles Mahler
Antwerp Belgium

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Access to Prague Conscriptions/Meldezettel #Austria-Czech <Zimmer-Luedinghausen@...>

Hi list,

for all those who don't know the address of the Prague conscription

Here it is.

Peter Zimmer
Muenster, Germany

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Researching SHULKIND from Vienna or Lemberg #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

Jeff, I am going to be rather brave and say:

1. I doubt very much that this UK immigrant SHULKIND family came >from Vienna
2. They probably came >from Krakow or possibly another Galician town.

The reason for my statements is that I have done a screen on the name in Vienna
and have found none in the holocaust or the vast cemetery records. If the
family came >from Galicia via Vienna, some children may have been born there:
then the IKG, Vienna would have the records. This would have to be checked.

Also people did not generally emigrate >from Vienna to England at this period.
Vienna was a very large city with opportunities for advancement - once there, a
Galician was likely to stay!

All the SCHULKIND [and variant spellings] I can find on yad vashem are from
Krakow, Galicia and there are many LEMBERGER victims >from Krakow too. We
remember them all here today.

All the sources I have looked at point to Krakow as the home of *most* of the
SCHULKIND of various spelling variants. Here are some Krakow births in the time
period we are interested in: SZULKIND child 1845; SZULKIND Estera 1845;
SZULKIND Nechemiasz 1847 - father Kalman Kopel; SCHULKIND Tauba Gnendel 1848
father Kalman; SZULKIND Estera 1849 - father Mojesz;
SZULKIND Alter Nachman 50 - father Kalman Kopel; SCHULKIND Gitla Reizla 1852;
SZULKIND Mojesz 1853; SZULKIND Nechemiasz 1853; SCHULKIND Gitel Laja
1854; SZULKIND Lieba Maka 1855;

There are corresponding marriage records too.

I have also checked the SCHULKIND and SHULKIND in the censuses of England and
Wales. There is one family spelled SCHULKIND >from Warsaw with mother-in-law
LAMPART but they are >from Warsaw, as well as Jeff's family >from "Austria".

The Jewishgen message archives reveal only two references since records began -

a Minsk resident in 1811 and burial in Borisov cemetery. There are two hits in
the JGFF - Gary SCHULKIND and Robert SHULKIND - Krakow is mentioned.

Conclusion: Jeff should join the Galicia-SIG and contact the two links on the
JGFF. He may find distant relatives. Eventually, contacting the many writers of
the POTs on Yad Vashem for SHULKIND might lead to more links.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Interviews and Jewish Genealogy on Website "Tracing Your Family Roots" #Austria-Czech

Herbert Huebscher <huebsch@...>

In my message yesterday regarding Jewish Genealogy interviews being
available for viewing on-line, I did not provide the complete link to
the website, "Tracing Your Family Roots." The correct link is:
Sorry if you had trouble accessing the site.
Herb Huebscher

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech re: Alexander EHRENREICH of Brody/Prague - agent for "Dampfmuhlen": #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

Vladimir Bohinc has written to me [and I have his permission to quote] re
Mr Alexander EHRENREICH of Brody/Prague whose occupation was stated as "Agent
mehrere Dampfmuhlen".

Vladimir, I believe, has hit the nail on the head. Alexander was not selling
steam engine machinery but was acting as an agent for various cereal mills -
trading in wheat and flour - ie a traditional grain trader.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Researching SHULKIND from Vienna or Lemberg #Austria-Czech

Jeff Shulkind <jeffsh47@...>

Dear Celia

Many thanks for your useful and fascinating comments.
My family have always believed they originated from
the Vienna area and the 1901 census appeared to
confirm it. You have given all of us much food for
thought and further investigation.


Jeff Shulkind

--- Celia Male <celiamale@...> wrote:
Jeff, I am going to be rather brave and say:

1. I doubt very much that this UK immigrant SHULKIND
family came >from Vienna

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Researching SHULKIND from Vienna or Lemberg #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

Jeff Shulkind wrote: .... "My family have always believed they originated from
the Vienna area and the 1901 census appeared to confirm it. You have given all
of us much food for thought and further investigation."

Jeff, the census clearly says *Austria Austria* by all the names. There is no
mention of Vienna. The term *Austria* was a generic one, widely used to denote
the Habsburg Empire.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Accessing the Prague conscription records. #Austria-Czech

Philip Moravcik <morav@...>

Upon visiting the site referenced by Peter Zimmer I find a list of names
but no way to access the actual digitized records. Can someone tell me how
to see the records?

Thank you.

Philip Moravcik, Univ. of Hawaii,

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Prague Conscriptions/Meldezettel - now up to HOCK, HONIG, KOHN and LEWIT #Austria-Czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>

Peter Zimmer wrote: "the Prague National Archive has added another 120,000 (now
467, 866) entries to their online database.

There is also an introduction now which as well as the page itself is
given in English, which makes searching the site easier."

Thanks Peter for alerting us to this announcement. I did find the English
version and it is rather comical - translated by a robot:

I have found it hard to find any reference to how far the
digitisation has proceeded. I use "trial and error" tactics - I have
also found many HOCK, HONIG, KOHN and LEWIT but not *I* letters.
Remember - maiden names, whatever their initial letter - appear if linked
to the husband's family name. Some *Z* names are also there because of
the phonetic filing system.

With this new *H* data, we can see the children of this HOCK family all
migrated to Vienna and Jakob is designated as a med Dr in Wien:

Simon (1800); (STOSELER) Marie (1807); Elisabet (1829) [married Wilhelm
FRANKEL]; Jakob (1831); Wolf (1833)

This is Jakob buried in Vienna: HOCK Jakob, Dr. age 58, buried 4 Feb 1890
Zentralfriedhof Tor 1 Group 7 Row 29 Grave 34

I believe Elisabet is also buried in the ZF with husband Wilhelm FRANKL [sic],
and daughter, but I need to confirm this is the same couple.

Zentralfriedhof Tor 1 Group 20 Row 21 Grave 31
Frankl Wilhelm age 71 died 19 March 1893 buried 21 March 1893
Frankl Elisabeth age 68 buried 12 July 1897
Frankl Marianne age 36 died 7 May 1900 buried 9 May 1900

Another perfect Bohemian "two-step" process.

I have early Prague HOCK on my BIACH tree so these will be valuable records to
investigate at leisure to try and trace my line [Simon HOCK born 1820 Prague].

I test the site periodically by entering names starting with various letters -
in this way, we can always be one jump ahead.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnote: In case you have forgotten or recently joined our SIG:

Go to:

Click *Hledani* in the red heading line and enter the family name into the
first field *prijmeni*. The fields are "drop down" menus and jmeno is first
name; *rok narozeni* is the date. I find it is best to enter just the family
name, or part of it, in the first field for a preliminary screen! Then click

If you look at the message archives one or two of us have written at length
about this site and how to use it in Spring 2007.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Researching SHULKIND from Vienna or Lemberg #Austria-Czech

Jeff Shulkind <jeffsh47@...>

Thanks Celia

I know that Vienna wasn't mentioned in the census and
that "Austria" covered a huge empire, it's just that
for as long as I and they can remember my family have
thought they were >from Vienna. Perhaps not !!!!



Jeff, the census clearly says *Austria Austria* by
all the names. There is no
mention of Vienna. The term *Austria* was a generic
one, widely used to denote
the Habsburg Empire.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech German documents on Viewmate VM10118-20 #Austria-Czech

Philip Moravcik <morav@...>


I was quite excited to recently find the marriage ledger entry for a
previously unknown ancestor in the Beroun area near Prague. I have not
been able to completely translate the documents and turn to you for help.

Please have a look at the following documents on viewmate

VM10118, VM10119, AND VM10120.

These are the descriptions/info about the bride and groom and
#10120 are some additional notes about the marriage on the following page.

Any help you could render me would be most appreciated.

Many thanks to those of you who responded to my earlier request for help
with translations.

Philip Moravcik, Univ. of Hawaii,

Direct URL's:

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Next Basic Jewish Genealogy Course beginning July 1, 2007 #Austria-Czech

phylliskramer1 <phylliskramer1@...>

New to genealogy? Not sure how to begin? How to organize? What JewishGen has to
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