Dear H-Sig friends,
It is not too easy to look for one's hungarian ancestors >from France,
since there are very few "colleagues" here. Nevertheless, I made many
discoveries through the Mormons' files which are rather easily accessible
in several places.
In your messages, I read often a reference to LDS files. Could somebody
tell me what are these files and where they can be found? Do they come
in microfilms or are they computerized? Can they be borrowed or should they
be bought? Is this possible to read them in special places like the Mormon
files? Do you know of any center of this kind in France?

And, an important question: do the LDS files cover the same material as
the Mormon files and if not, what are the differences?

Thanks,

Georges GRANER
___________________________________________________________
| Mail : Georges.GRANER@... |
|_________________________________________________________|

Dear H-Sig friends,
It is not too easy to look for one's hungarian ancestors >from France,
since there are very few "colleagues" here. Nevertheless, I made many
discoveries through the Mormons' files which are rather easily accessible
in several places.
In your messages, I read often a reference to LDS files. Could somebody
tell me what are these files and where they can be found? Do they come
in microfilms or are they computerized? Can they be borrowed or should they
be bought? Is this possible to read them in special places like the Mormon
files? Do you know of any center of this kind in France?

And, an important question: do the LDS files cover the same material as
the Mormon files and if not, what are the differences?

Thanks,

Georges GRANER
___________________________________________________________
| Mail : Georges.GRANER@... |
|_________________________________________________________|

In a message dated 9/7/98 6:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, melody@... writes:

<< just returned >from a visit to eastern Slovakia, mainly in and around
Stropkov. I stayed at the local hotel (no hot water, but a sizeable
discount) for five days, travelling around to small villages -- all the
ones that I had ever wanted to see -- Okruhle, Medzilaborce, Havaj,
Bardiov, Bardiov Kupele (of the famed "rusty water"), Mikova, Chotca,

It was deep in the woods, far beyond the fields, on a very steep hill.
The gravestones were nearly inaccessible because of the slope. Many had
succumbed to gravity; many had been displaced by tall trees. Although
isolated and neglected, this cemetery was uncommonly beautiful and
peaceful. I would choose to spend eternity here.

On the walk back, with darkness approaching, we heard a train somewhere,
whistling forlornly into the night. How easy it was to imagine the trains
that had carried Jews to the camps. Then, like now, trains passed by tiny
hamlets scattered throughout the green meadows of rural Slovakia, hardly
noticed, hardly heard.

Melody Amsel Gross >>

Dear Melody:

I was so touched by your account of your visit to Slovakia, I just had to tell
you how it made me feel. Thank you for such a moving account of your trip.

Sincerely,
Phyllis Auspitz Cohen
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

Searching: AUSPITZ, ZELKOWITZ, GROSNOFF

In a message dated 9/7/98 6:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, melody@... writes:

<< just returned >from a visit to eastern Slovakia, mainly in and around
Stropkov. I stayed at the local hotel (no hot water, but a sizeable
discount) for five days, travelling around to small villages -- all the
ones that I had ever wanted to see -- Okruhle, Medzilaborce, Havaj,
Bardiov, Bardiov Kupele (of the famed "rusty water"), Mikova, Chotca,

It was deep in the woods, far beyond the fields, on a very steep hill.
The gravestones were nearly inaccessible because of the slope. Many had
succumbed to gravity; many had been displaced by tall trees. Although
isolated and neglected, this cemetery was uncommonly beautiful and
peaceful. I would choose to spend eternity here.

On the walk back, with darkness approaching, we heard a train somewhere,
whistling forlornly into the night. How easy it was to imagine the trains
that had carried Jews to the camps. Then, like now, trains passed by tiny
hamlets scattered throughout the green meadows of rural Slovakia, hardly
noticed, hardly heard.

Melody Amsel Gross >>

Dear Melody:

I was so touched by your account of your visit to Slovakia, I just had to tell
you how it made me feel. Thank you for such a moving account of your trip.

Sincerely,
Phyllis Auspitz Cohen
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

Searching: AUSPITZ, ZELKOWITZ, GROSNOFF

The 1900 Federal Census of the Brooklyn Hebrew Orphan Asylum has
been added to our website with 300 children's names and dates of
birth listed. Anyone wanting any other indiviual information on
any particular child as to parent's birthplace may email me at NOHalumni@...

Also added are 33 Children's Death Certificates with genealogical information for orphans and foundlings >from NYC area orphanages
and hospitals. The years of death range >from 1882 to 1901 and
these children are buried in some of the free burial plots at
various Jewish Cemeteries in the NY area. This information may
be seen on the Federal and State Census Page

On the Jewish Orphanages in the US Page, the city of Oakland, CA
has been added and also more information added to the San Francisco
and Fort Wayne, IN Jewish orphanages. There are now 49 cities
identified in 23 states and over 100 Jewish Orphanages listed
with historical and archival information.

AND.....80 new URL links for Jewish Genealogy and Other Resources
have also been added for researching, which now totals over 500
links to thousands of sites on the Internet >from our website.

Our web site may be accessed at http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh

Marge Spears-Soloff
Orlando, FL
MSpearssol@...
HNOHalumni@...
http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh

The 1900 Federal Census of the Brooklyn Hebrew Orphan Asylum has
been added to our website with 300 children's names and dates of
birth listed. Anyone wanting any other indiviual information on
any particular child as to parent's birthplace may email me at NOHalumni@...

Also added are 33 Children's Death Certificates with genealogical information for orphans and foundlings >from NYC area orphanages
and hospitals. The years of death range >from 1882 to 1901 and
these children are buried in some of the free burial plots at
various Jewish Cemeteries in the NY area. This information may
be seen on the Federal and State Census Page

On the Jewish Orphanages in the US Page, the city of Oakland, CA
has been added and also more information added to the San Francisco
and Fort Wayne, IN Jewish orphanages. There are now 49 cities
identified in 23 states and over 100 Jewish Orphanages listed
with historical and archival information.

AND.....80 new URL links for Jewish Genealogy and Other Resources
have also been added for researching, which now totals over 500
links to thousands of sites on the Internet >from our website.

Our web site may be accessed at http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh

Marge Spears-Soloff
Orlando, FL
MSpearssol@...
HNOHalumni@...
http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh

In response to Stan Goodman's comment, "If a man is a Kohen, his sons, all
of them are also Kohanim. There are no other rules for the transmission. It
moves in the paternal line only, never in the maternal."

I also believed this, but I'm not so sure any more. A Galicia researcher
on this list and I have a common family name (Nebenzahl) which supposedly
is a single family. Although the male Nebenzahls of my family essentially
"daughtered out," the Nebenzahl men in my line were Kohanim. However,
this researcher told me that the Nebenzahls in Galicia were not Kohanim,
and explained that he found in his research evidence of some matrilineal
transmission which might explain why my Nebenzahls are Kohanim. His
argument is interesting food for thought.

In anthropological studies of kinship (I am an anthropologist) we see that
matrilineal descent does not mean "matriarchy," but rather reckoning of
descent through male relatives related through the uterine line (in other
words, men related to one another through mothers). In Swaziland, for
example, the male kingship is inherited matrilineally; a man sits on the
throne and his mother sits behind him. This is how matrilineality
commonly works.

I hope this Galicia researcher who knows about the Nebenzahl line and the
Kohan claim of my ancestors also responds to your note, although I believe
he is now in the middle of a cross-country move.

In the meantime, I read an interesting scientific article online recently
(can't remember where, although I think it was linked on a Sephardic
website) that talked about the genetics of being a Kohan. Apparently this
inherited priestly cast originated before the Sephardic Ashkenazi split.

I have no stake in either argument (for or against some matrilineal
transmission of Kohans) and am not taking a stand. However, one of the
truisms of human social life is that all cultures have rules and
traditions, and in every culture those rules and traditions are broken,
twisted and circumvented. How the rules are broken and twisted is also
part of the culture.

Candice Bradley
Appleton WI

In response to Stan Goodman's comment, "If a man is a Kohen, his sons, all
of them are also Kohanim. There are no other rules for the transmission. It
moves in the paternal line only, never in the maternal."

I also believed this, but I'm not so sure any more. A Galicia researcher
on this list and I have a common family name (Nebenzahl) which supposedly
is a single family. Although the male Nebenzahls of my family essentially
"daughtered out," the Nebenzahl men in my line were Kohanim. However,
this researcher told me that the Nebenzahls in Galicia were not Kohanim,
and explained that he found in his research evidence of some matrilineal
transmission which might explain why my Nebenzahls are Kohanim. His
argument is interesting food for thought.

In anthropological studies of kinship (I am an anthropologist) we see that
matrilineal descent does not mean "matriarchy," but rather reckoning of
descent through male relatives related through the uterine line (in other
words, men related to one another through mothers). In Swaziland, for
example, the male kingship is inherited matrilineally; a man sits on the
throne and his mother sits behind him. This is how matrilineality
commonly works.

I hope this Galicia researcher who knows about the Nebenzahl line and the
Kohan claim of my ancestors also responds to your note, although I believe
he is now in the middle of a cross-country move.

In the meantime, I read an interesting scientific article online recently
(can't remember where, although I think it was linked on a Sephardic
website) that talked about the genetics of being a Kohan. Apparently this
inherited priestly cast originated before the Sephardic Ashkenazi split.

I have no stake in either argument (for or against some matrilineal
transmission of Kohans) and am not taking a stand. However, one of the
truisms of human social life is that all cultures have rules and
traditions, and in every culture those rules and traditions are broken,
twisted and circumvented. How the rules are broken and twisted is also
part of the culture.

Candice Bradley
Appleton WI

What sources would you recommend for finding the correct arrival dates
of someone in the port of New York and the ships on which they came?
The timeframe I am looking for is during the unindexed periods for New York. I looked at the naturalization papers and find varying dates --
which also differ >from the dates given on the census.

In one family's case I have between 1879 and 1881 depending which
source you read and in the other family's case I have 1889 to 1894.

I really do not want to try and look at all of the passenger lists
and I have tried the books such as "Germans to America" and "Russians
to America" to no avail. Any other likely sources that people have
had success with in getting arrival dates or ship's names?

Thanks.

Allan Jordan
aejordan@...

What sources would you recommend for finding the correct arrival dates
of someone in the port of New York and the ships on which they came?
The timeframe I am looking for is during the unindexed periods for New York. I looked at the naturalization papers and find varying dates --
which also differ >from the dates given on the census.

In one family's case I have between 1879 and 1881 depending which
source you read and in the other family's case I have 1889 to 1894.

I really do not want to try and look at all of the passenger lists
and I have tried the books such as "Germans to America" and "Russians
to America" to no avail. Any other likely sources that people have
had success with in getting arrival dates or ship's names?

Thanks.

Allan Jordan
aejordan@...

I understand that Rene, of Holland, is looking for information about DE
VALLE, a Dutch Jewish family in the 18th century I have a number of
references in the Publications of the American Jewish Historical Society.
If Rene will contact me privately I shall be glad to share these
references with him.

Carl Alpert
alpert@...

I understand that Rene, of Holland, is looking for information about DE
VALLE, a Dutch Jewish family in the 18th century I have a number of
references in the Publications of the American Jewish Historical Society.
If Rene will contact me privately I shall be glad to share these
references with him.

Carl Alpert
alpert@...

A Member of the JGS of Southern Nevada-West who does not have a computer
is looking for information on her grandfather Zalman Lerner. Zalman
came to New York >from Romania around 1912 and may have died sometime
between 1913 and 1925. Zalman's wife Anna is buried in the Montefiore
Cemetery in New York, and it is possible that it is the Old Montefiore
Cemetery. Apparently both Anna and Zalman were members of the Workman's
Circle as Anna is buried in that section.

Now that JewishGen is back on line, I was able to access the family
finder and there is a Gary Fitleberg looking for Lerner >from Romania. I
will contact him for this individual, but I cannot access the cemetery
project. I think Zalman is also buried in the Workman's Circle area of
the Old Montefiore Cemetery, but not in the same location as Anna.
We've written to the cemetery in hopes of finding some information.
Does anyone have any other suggestions we could try? The soundex list
of immigrants at the LDS did not come up with any name like Zalman
Lerner.

Charlotte Aisuss Showel
JGS of Southern Nevada-West

A Member of the JGS of Southern Nevada-West who does not have a computer
is looking for information on her grandfather Zalman Lerner. Zalman
came to New York >from Romania around 1912 and may have died sometime
between 1913 and 1925. Zalman's wife Anna is buried in the Montefiore
Cemetery in New York, and it is possible that it is the Old Montefiore
Cemetery. Apparently both Anna and Zalman were members of the Workman's
Circle as Anna is buried in that section.

Now that JewishGen is back on line, I was able to access the family
finder and there is a Gary Fitleberg looking for Lerner >from Romania. I
will contact him for this individual, but I cannot access the cemetery
project. I think Zalman is also buried in the Workman's Circle area of
the Old Montefiore Cemetery, but not in the same location as Anna.
We've written to the cemetery in hopes of finding some information.
Does anyone have any other suggestions we could try? The soundex list
of immigrants at the LDS did not come up with any name like Zalman
Lerner.

Charlotte Aisuss Showel
JGS of Southern Nevada-West

I did an internet search on my surname Garza to see if I could find
any information about the roots of the family name. I wanted to find
the roots of the name in Spain. One surprising hit that came back was

from the soc.culture.jewish FAQ: Jews As a Nation at this address:

<http://www.landfield.com/faqs/judaism/FAQ/07-Jews-As-Nation/>

In it, it said, "Jews have played an important role in the history
of Monterrey, Mexico. The Garza family, one of Mexico's richest,
of Cerveceria Moctezuma fame, are Jews." My great grandfather on my
dad's side is >from Monterrey, Mexico. On my mom's side of the family
tree I also have Garzas and can trace my ancestry back 8 generations
to a Blas Maria de la Garza Falcon. Her family has lived in southern
Texas for generations and was supposed to own land there long ago.
I'm curious as to the roots of my family and I want to learn if
the Sephardic connection is real, just rumor, or perhaps only a
small part of the Garza family was Jewish.

If anyone knows, let me know.

Thanks,
Steven Garza

MODERATOR NOTE: See the JewishGen Infofiles on Sephardim, the JewishGen
Discussion Group Archived Messages on Marranos, Crypto Jews, Converso,
Anuism. Infofiles and Archives are accessed >from the homepage which is
http://www.jewishgen.org

I did an internet search on my surname Garza to see if I could find
any information about the roots of the family name. I wanted to find
the roots of the name in Spain. One surprising hit that came back was

from the soc.culture.jewish FAQ: Jews As a Nation at this address:

<http://www.landfield.com/faqs/judaism/FAQ/07-Jews-As-Nation/>

In it, it said, "Jews have played an important role in the history
of Monterrey, Mexico. The Garza family, one of Mexico's richest,
of Cerveceria Moctezuma fame, are Jews." My great grandfather on my
dad's side is >from Monterrey, Mexico. On my mom's side of the family
tree I also have Garzas and can trace my ancestry back 8 generations
to a Blas Maria de la Garza Falcon. Her family has lived in southern
Texas for generations and was supposed to own land there long ago.
I'm curious as to the roots of my family and I want to learn if
the Sephardic connection is real, just rumor, or perhaps only a
small part of the Garza family was Jewish.

If anyone knows, let me know.

Thanks,
Steven Garza

MODERATOR NOTE: See the JewishGen Infofiles on Sephardim, the JewishGen
Discussion Group Archived Messages on Marranos, Crypto Jews, Converso,
Anuism. Infofiles and Archives are accessed >from the homepage which is
http://www.jewishgen.org

Could someone help me locate a Morris MYERS who I believe lives
in Washington.
Son and only child of Ben MYERS >from Liverpool UK.

from Valerie Gold

RUP29@...
Searching family name LEVY and MYERS. UK and USA.
Thank you

Hello Melody

Thank you for your letter to the HSIG. Now I know what the word appears
before the given names and the surnames in the 1828 Census of Munkacs. Yes I typed Munkacs. Someone will have the 1828 Munkacs census Microfilm soon at the local LDS and possibly will have printed out the entries for Munkacs so people can look up names of their ancestors if they paid taxes on some type of property. It does have the given first name as well as the last name. I have one page of this particular census for Munkacs and the first word looked very similar on each entery. The script does not look very easy to read but now I see they do look like Jud if of course they appeared Jewish.

Thank you.

Dennis Baer

Could someone help me locate a Morris MYERS who I believe lives
in Washington.
Son and only child of Ben MYERS >from Liverpool UK.

from Valerie Gold

RUP29@...
Searching family name LEVY and MYERS. UK and USA.
Thank you

Hello Melody

Thank you for your letter to the HSIG. Now I know what the word appears
before the given names and the surnames in the 1828 Census of Munkacs. Yes I typed Munkacs. Someone will have the 1828 Munkacs census Microfilm soon at the local LDS and possibly will have printed out the entries for Munkacs so people can look up names of their ancestors if they paid taxes on some type of property. It does have the given first name as well as the last name. I have one page of this particular census for Munkacs and the first word looked very similar on each entery. The script does not look very easy to read but now I see they do look like Jud if of course they appeared Jewish.

Thank you.

Dennis Baer