Topics

1910 Census lists German as language, but country of origin is "Russia. #ukraine #russia


Bob Roudman
 

A cousin's grandfather listed Russia as his country of origin, but German as his language on the 1910 census. His wife listed Yiddish as her language. Both are Jewish and I am certain that he spoke Yiddish as well. Weak oral history suggests that he may have came from Ukraine, but there is no documentation to support the oral history. We are trying to guesstimate where in Russia that he came from this the only documented hint that his language was German. Was there any specific area in Russia where he might have been born that had a heavy German influence, where he would have been educated in German, rather than only Yiddish, and not Russian? He was born in 1871. Thank you for any help that you may provide. Happy New Year.....
Bob Roudman
San Rafael, CA USA


pathetiq1@...
 

Bob, 
Some possible explanations 
A) for some  reasons he lied in the census. Did he declare the same in other censuses? 
B) the census taker made a mistake (not unusual) 
C) he was indeed a german speaker. Perhaps he had partly german origins. 
D) he was born in a place close to the Russian German border, 

You didn't give his name, have you tried to find any immigration or naturalization documents ? They will certainly give you some definite  answers. 
Happy new year ! 
--
Giannis Daropoulos 

Greece


Susan&David
 

I am only commenting on the wording of the original statement:  "A cousin's grandfather listed Russia as his country of origin, but German as his language on the 1910 census. His wife listed Yiddish as her language...."
and on reason A below.  

 In 1910 the census taker came to the door and questioned a  responsible person .  The likely person in this case was his wife.  Not until 1960 did mail-out forms become the primary method of data collection. 

David Rosen
Boston, MA 

On 12/31/2020 12:50 PM, pathetiq1@... wrote:
Bob, 
Some possible explanations 
A) for some  reasons he lied in the census. Did he declare the same in other censuses? 


Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#654205) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Mute #ukraine | Mute #russia
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [rosens@...]

_._,_._,_


Herbert Lazerow
 

    Three areas governed by Russia where the dominant language might have been German:
    Northern Poland, adjacent to what was then East Prussia.
    Parts of present-day Latvia, then ruled by Russia, had a Germanic culture.
    After WW1, western Ukraine was transferred from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, where the ambient language must have been German, to Russia.  That would not have applied in 1910.
Bert
--
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110 U.S.A.
(619)260-4597 office, (858)453-2388 cell, lazer@...
Author: Mastering Art Law (2d ed. Carolina Academic Press 2020)

--
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110
lazer@...
Author: Mastering Art Law (Carolina Academic Press, 2d ed. 2020)


Paula Blank
 

Chances are he was from Latvia. I had family from Jelgava (was Mitau) and they spoke German and considered themselves German.
Some listed themselves as Russian on US records and others as German...
 
Paula Langer Blank


Kenneth Ryesky
 

Many areas governed by Russia had German-speaking populations.  Not only Volkdeutschen, but portions of Prussia and the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Example:  The city known today as Kaliningrad, Russia, was once Königsberg, Prussia.

--
Ken Ryesky,  Petach Tikva, Israel     kenneth.ryesky@... 

Researching:
RAISKY/REISKY, ARONOV, SHKOLNIK(OV), AEROV; Gomel, Belarus
GERTZIG, BRODSKY; Yelizavetgrad, Ukraine
BRODSKY, VASILESKY; Odessa, Ukraine
IZRAELSON, ARSHENOV; Yevpatoriya, Ukraine (Crimea)


Jules Levin
 

Catherine settled German sectarian colonists in the Ukraine or some
other area in Central Russia.  I think she thought her fellow Germans
would teach the Russian peasants better farming methods. They retained
their language; I knew a fellow student in the UCLA Slavic Department in
the 60's whose family came from that area. They had settled in a similar
sectarian community in the US, I believe in the Dakotas somewhere, and
still retained a slight German accent, like some Amish or that one-time
famous band leader from Yankton (name escapes me).  Those people did not
fare well in Russia in WW II.

Jules Levin


On 12/31/2020 11:26 AM, Herbert Lazerow wrote:
    Three areas governed by Russia where the dominant language might
have been German:
    Northern Poland, adjacent to what was then East Prussia.
    Parts of present-day Latvia, then ruled by Russia, had a Germanic
culture.
    After WW1, western Ukraine was transferred from the
Austro-Hungarian Empire, where the ambient language must have been
German, to Russia.  That would not have applied in 1910.
Bert
--
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110 U.S.A.
(619)260-4597 office, (858)453-2388 cell, lazer@...
<mailto:lazer@...>
Author: Mastering Art Law (2d ed. Carolina Academic Press 2020)

--
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110
lazer@... <mailto:lazer@...>
Author: /Mastering Art Law/ (Carolina Academic Press, 2d ed. 2020)


Stephen Weinstein
 

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 09:32 AM, Bob Roudman wrote:
where in Russia that he came from this the only documented hint that his language was German

Possibly Kaliningrad, an area along the Baltic Sea, today between Poland and Lithuania, which which used to be ruled by Germany and is today part of Russia, although it is not physically connected to the rest of the Russia (sort of like Alaska and the rest of the U.S.).

Possibly one of the parts of Poland that were ruled by Prussia (which was German-speaking) or Austria (also German-speaking) at some times in history and by Russia at other times in history.

Possibly Lithuania or Latvia, which were part of Russia until World War One.

Or really anywhere, since he could have lived in a Germany-speaking place as a child and moved to Russia as an adult.
--
Stephen Weinstein
Camarillo, California, USA
stephenweinstein@...


Alexander Sharon
 

For the very same reasons that a Galizyaner Jew claims that his origin is Austrian.

Alexander Sharon

Calgary, AB, Canada


The Becker's Email
 

It's evident you, or your cousin, has done some research into census records but you do not state the extent of your research.  It's possible a ship's manifest and/or naturalization papers  etc. would provide clues/detail of  the actual gubernia/town  if you have not  already researched sources in addition to census records.

Johanna Becker
Newport, RI


m_tobiasiewicz@...
 

Germans from Russia, check out the history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Germans_in_Russia,_Ukraine_and_the_Soviet_Union
There is also a genealogy group for Germans from Russia. https://www.cyndislist.com/germans-from-russia/general/

--
Maryellen Tobiasiewicz
family from: Bielsko-Biala powiat Poland
Gorlice powiat Poland
Lviv Oblast Ukraine


m_tobiasiewicz@...
 

Yiddish sounds a lot like German. Maybe the census taker just wrong it down as German. I do not know Yiddish. But many decades ago when I was a student, we met with the Rabbi at a synagogue in Moscow. He spoke Yiddish and I understood a lot of what he was saying. (He only let us in when we told him we were Americans!)
--
Maryellen Tobiasiewicz
family from: Bielsko-Biala powiat Poland
Gorlice powiat Poland
Lviv Oblast Ukraine


mvayser@...
 

Maryellen
"Germans from Russia" are ethnic Germans, not Jewish.

The Latvia theory, suggested by some in this thread, is the likely scenario.
Königsberg should not be considered here, as it was never part of the Russian empire.  They held it for only a couple of years in mid-1700's, before turning it back to Prussia.  It became part of the Soviet Union only after WWII with all ethnic Germans deported and people from Soviet the Union were moved there to repopulate the city (possibly only ethnic Russians).

Mike Vayser


Shel
 

Also note that Russia encouraged not only ethnic Germans to establish colonies in Russia (Ukraine), but also Jews were allowed to do the same. See previous JGen Discussion List messages by Mel Comisarow.

Shel BERCOVICH

Searching: LIPKIND, BERCOVICI, ECHTER, TSVANG (ZWANG) GERBIL