Topics

Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

This is one of my occasional postings on a subject that, whilst not strictly
speaking of genealogical relevance, is nevertheless of interest in
my on-going research into my family history.

When my late father and his elder brother were growing up in pre-WW2 Vienna,
they belonged to various youth groups and hiking groups, Jewish and
non-Jewish, and they had (one of several) a communal song to sing whilst
walking. As I recall hearing it >from them many years later, the words ran
thusly:

"hunger hunger, hunger hunger
-------marmelade-------shnitzel, blumenkohlsalad
und warme wuerstchen, bratkartoffel
hunger hunger, hunger hunger"

and so on and so on.

I know what the words mean (food, glorious food!), although I would be
interested to have the blanks filled in. But I'm also interested to know if
this was a "Jewish" song rather than a general walking group song. And also,
it is still current?

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@...

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

I hadn't overlooked that point - also the use of "kartoffel" for potatoes,
which is not Viennese useage. So,as Celia points out, the
song probably isn't "Viennese " or even of Austrian origin
(although my Parents were). And it certainly isn't a "Jewish" song

Shabbat shalom

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Celia Male [mailto:celiamale@...]
Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 9:13 PM
To: austriaczech@...
Cc: robert fraser
Subject: Re: [austriaczech] Viennese Hiking Song

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia is looking for the missing words in a rhyme
his family used to sing when hiking. As I mentioned in my previous posting,
this cannot be a Viennese song, because of the word "Blumenkohl". Other
linguistic pointers to a German, as opposed to a Viennese origin, are the
words "Kartoffel" [Viennese = Erdapfel] & "Krumel" with umlaut [Viennese =
Brosel - with umlaut].

I have recipe books of my grandmother going back many, many years! These
books are also interesting genealogical resources as the recipes are prefaced,
for example, with "Tante Marie's Marillenknodel" etc

Robert, you can find the answer to your question in a German "Senior Citizens'
chat group"!

http://www.seniorentreff.ch/diskussion/archiv6/a1286.html
nb: one long URL

Translation of the German text: When we were schoolchildren, we used to sing
the following song at youth hostels before our meals. Does anyone still
remember it?

Well, Robert did [partially!].

Marmelade, Karbonade, Eisbein, Schnitzel, Blumenkohl,
Salat.... oh Erdbeertorte, oh Kuchenkrumel,
Bratkartoffeln.... wir haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger,
haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger, haben Hunger, Hunger,
Hunger, haben Durst ...!!

Celia Male [UK]

meretz
 

Back in Moravia we have also never heard another name for cauliflower except
Karfiol, We learned about Blumenkohl only >from the Yekes (German Jews),
when we came to Palestine and used to laugh about this term which seemed
ridiculous to us.
However, the song "Hunger Hunger Marmelade Karbonade" is included in
"Index Volkslieder Verzeichnis" - http://ingeb.org/Volksohi.html

Uriel Meretz
Ramat-Hasharon, Israel