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Jewish records from Trebic & Vienna {and Blattna?} on IGI. #austria-czech


Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

I have just come across one of the strangest entries*
on a well -known genealogical internet website
[Mormon].

It intrigues me, because I have been unable to find
out much about the Jews of Blattna, Bohemia [see
Austria-Czech message archives for my posting on
this]. Was this a couple that perhaps were baptised
later? Of course, I have no proof that they were
Jewish but if you enter the International Genealogical
Index [IGI] Continental Europe, you find PICK from
Trebic who obviously were.
We already know that the Jewish SPIRA family is listed
and we can find the father of Johanna MULDONOVA - Wolf
MULDON, who must have been born ca 1780. Johana [sic]
married Herman [sic] SPIRA on the 31 March 1844.

How did these Jewish SPIRA, MULDONOVA/MULDON and PICK
records >from Trebic {and Vienna} appear on this
website? Did they partially film the records or did
someone submit ancient family trees with these names?
I suspect the latter.

When I picked on [sorry!] Therese PICK born in Vienna
26 Feb 1841 to Josef and Maria, I cross-checked with a
list I have for Jewish births in Vienna pre 1848 and
I found a {Resi} Therese PICK born in Vienna in 1841
and her father was >from Bosing in Hungary. I wonder if
these are one and the same? Again, I wonder how she
turns up on the IGI list.

And then there is Sofia PICK born 7 DEC 1843 Wien,
Austria daughter of Ignaz and Regina; she also appears in the
early Jewish records list with father [unnamed] being
a K und K Stadtwaag pachter.

Conclusion: We definitely have some early
Trebic/Trebitsch, Moravia and Viennese Jewish records
available for us on this site.

Again, comparison of various sources is a great help
in this work. Needless to say, the families I am
personally interested in for my early family tree are
not listed. Just my luck!

Celia Male [U.K.]

*Mystery entry:

Mrs Pick Female
Event(s):
About 1686 Of, Blatna, Boehmen Koenigreich, Austria

Marriages:
Spouse: Mr Pick
Marriage:
About 1706 Of, Blatna, Boehmen Koenigreich, Austria


SallyannSack <sallyann.sack@...>
 

For a detailed discussed of Celia's question (and related others) see my
article in the current issue of AVOTAYNU. It's entitled "Mormon/Jewish
Controversy: An Update."

Sallyann Amdur Sack, editor
AVOTAYNU, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy

----- Original Message -----
From: Celia Male <celiamale@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:42:21 -0800 (PST)
I have just come across one of the strangest entries*
on a well -known genealogical internet website
[Mormon].
snip>>>>>>>>>


Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Those of you who have been members of this SIG since
Spring 2005 will remember the amazing story of Joe
Breitenfeld >from Australia who was born in a prison
camp in Siberia to a Viennese father, Hans BREITENFELD
who died shortly after Joe's birth. Joe was searching
for his family all his life, but his initial posting
on Austria-Czech did the trick! I am delighted to
report that many close BREITENFELD members have been
found and a reunion was
held in Vienna in September. But, as always, there
still remain some mysteries.

I wonder whether Art Spira's query has serendipitously
solved one of them? As a result of Art's query, I have
been investigating the IGI Continental Europe records
of Trebic and Vienna very carefully and have come to
some interesting conclusions. But how about this re
Joe's grandparents, Karl and Karoline?

On 7 June 2005 I wrote to the SIG: Family of Karl
BREITENFELD
Karl [20 May 1854, Richenburg - 14 November 1923,
Vienna] married Karoline POLLAK [2 September 1868,
Trebitsch, Moravia] on 26 Oct 1890 in Vienna. Her
parents were Eduard POLLAK and Minna KRONSTEIN or
KORNSTEIN {difficulty in deciphering the writing!}.

I told Joe it would be hard to produce a POLLAK tree
as there were so many, but - blow me - here is an
Eduard POLLAK >from Trebic in the IGI records [who
would have thought of looking for a POLLAK from
Trebic there?]:

EDUARD POLLAK Male
Birth: 28 MAR 1843 Trebic, Trebic, Czechoslovakia
Parents: Father: David POLLAK Mother: Lena
KOHNBERGEROVA

The dates would fit but it may be a red herring. I do
not think so [see below!]. Then searching for
KOHNBERGEROVA we find Lena's parents as: Lena
KOHNBERGEROVA
Birth: 20 May 1820 Trebic
Father: Marek KOHNBERGER
Mother: Alzbeta Eleanora GOLDSCHMIEDOVA

You will note Alzbeta also has a sister, Josefa.

And then if you look at the Vienna cemetery database
you do indeed find Eduard and Minna POLLAK buried
there at Zentralfriedhof [ZF] Tor IV Group 8 Row 12
Grave 44.

Pollack [sic] Mina aged 83 09.09.1928
Pollak Eduard aged 82 15.07.1925
Pollak Emil aged 67 17.03.1940 - 20.03.1940

I strongly suspect that Eduard and Mina are Joe's
gt-grandparents and Emil is his great-uncle, namely an
unknown younger brother of Joe's grandmother, Karoline
nee POLLAK.

We can even find David POLLAK's details:
Birth: 21 Jan 1814 Trebic
Father: Abraham POLLAK Mother: Sibila BAUEROVA

There is a grave for David at the ZF which might fit
but that would be amazingly lucky:
POLLAK David aged 66 21.05.1880 Tor I Group 6 Row 1
Grave 10.

So we now hopefully have got as far back as Joe's
gtgtgt grandfather Abraham Pollak. All this should be
cross-checked with the original archival documents for
confirmation.

I have followed up other family names >from Trebic
during the day and so far have come up with this list:


ABELES BACHRACH BAECKOVA BAUER BAUEROVA FUERSTOVA
GLASER
GLASNER GLASNEROVA GOLDSCHMIEDOVA KLEINOVA
KOHNBERGEROVA
KULKA LEDERER LISSOVA PICK POLLAK SPIRA TAUSSIGOVA
WEITZMANN

There are probably many more, but it needs time and
patience to find them. I hereby retract my statement
of yesterday in which I suggested that this data is
probably based on submitted family trees. I am now
more than ever convinced that some vital records from
Trebic came into the hands of the Mormons and were
transcribed onto the IGI index. Wolf-Erich Eckstein
sent us a posting some years ago where he listed the
Trebic record which were available in Prague.* The
various families I found were not all linked by
marriage and one could not skip >from one record to
another. I only found them by trial and error using
possible Jewish family names >from Trebic.

Unfortunately, one cannot carry out a reverse search
with *Trebic* as a keyword. Trebic seems to have been
singled out for this IGI treatment as PICK and other
common names do not elicit hits for other Moravian
towns. When and where the Trebic records were found is
anyone's guess. Also the IGI records probably
represent just a fraction of an original document.

As for Henry Wellisch's Simon DEUTSCH family
"zustandig in Trebic" - so far I have not found one in
the IGI records for Trebic.

I believe I have also solved the Vienna IGI records
birth riddle.
But that will be for another posting.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Fotnotes:

* 19 Feb 2001: Wolf-Erich Eckstein wrote - All Jewish
records for Bohemia & Moravia are located in Prague,
State Archives. For Trebic: Birth: 1784-1858,
1864-1899, 1901-1905, 1906-1939, 1942-1943 Marriages:
1784-1858, 1865-1939, 1942-1943
Death: 1790-1856, 1862-1938, 1942-1945