dual patronymics #belarus


leonidze@...
 

From: Leonid Zeliger <leonidze@gmail.com>
Date: Jul 22, 2010 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [belarus] dual patronymics

Hello,
Two remarks might make the things a little bit clearer.
1.There're no double names and, as a result, no double patronymics in
Russian language,culture and tradition. 2.On the other hand there
were double name but no patronymics in Jewish-Yiddish tradition.
When Russian bureaucracy made effort to integrate the Jews in
Russian society they needed to construct a sort of combined form of
Russian patronymic made of (double) Jewish name. Since this
phenomenon did not exist in Russian language, and there were no
grammatical rules for it any clerk could invent any form that seemed
proper to him.
One rule is firm : grandfather's name could never be a part of
patronymics, so "Naumovitch-Girshovitsh" indicated to double father's
name Nahum-Hirsh.
Since a double name was and is foreign and exotic for Russian speaker,
the Jews themselves eventually stopped to use them in everyday life
after they entered in large amounts into Russian society, while the
double name stayed be registered in official documents.
I have in my family archive documents >from 1880-s, in which my GF is
called in 3 different ways : Dov-Ber,Ber and Boris, very significant
illustration of the process.

Leonid Zeliger
Jerusalem
Israel

On 7/21/10, Jonathan Adams <pangolin19@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello:

I have found some of my grandfather's grammar school forms >from Grodno in
the late 1890s. On three different forms his name is listed as "Joseph
Naumovitch-Girshovitch Adunsky." This is the only place we have seen the
hyphenated patronymic. His father was Nahum; so was Girsh (Hirsh) his grandfather
Was this a common naming convention at the time? Thanks for any insights.
.

Jonathan Adams
Rockville, Md.


Stephen Weinstein
 

No, that means his father (who you call Nahum) was Naumo-Girshon.
Stephen Weinstein
Bachelor of Science, Mechanical Engineering,
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute,

"Jonathan Adams <pangolin19@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello:I have found some of my grandfather's grammar school forms >from Grodno
in the late 1890s. On three different forms his name is listed as "Joseph
Naumovitch-Girshovitch Adunsky." This is the only place we have seen the
hyphenated patronymic. His father was Nahum; so was Girsh (Hirsh) his grandfather
Was this a common naming convention at the time? Thanks for any insights
Jonathan Adams, Rockville, Md."


joyweave
 

Does anyone know whether there was any traditional double or alternate
name that went with what would be Joshua in English? My
great-grandfather has been found as Yehoshua on my gf's tombstone, Ovsei
in Russian-Polish documents, and Sheya on my gf's American death
certificate. But his name does not appear in the 1850 revision list for
what is now Vysokoye, Belarus. My gf was born in 1859, so my ggf should
have been in the 1850 census unless he lived elsewhere or was hidden.

What I'm wondering is whether he might actually be in the revision list,
but under a second name I do not know is a name commonly linked to his.

Joy Weaver
Islip, NY USA


Anne Bobroff-Hajal
 

Thanks for this terrific discussion and the information!

Anne Bobroff-Hajal
New York

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:49 AM, Leonid Zeliger <leonidze@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
Two remarks might make the things a little bit clearer.
1.There're no double names and, as a result, no double patronymics in
Russian language,culture and tradition. 2.On the other hand there
were double name but no patronymics in Jewish-Yiddish tradition.
When Russian bureaucracy made effort to integrate the Jews in
Russian society they needed to construct a sort of combined form of
Russian patronymic made of (double) Jewish name. Since this
phenomenon did not exist in Russian language, and there were no
grammatical rules for it any clerk could invent any form that seemed
proper to him.
One rule is firm : grandfather's name could never be a part of
patronymics, so "Naumovitch-Girshovitsh" indicated to double father's
name Nahum-Hirsh.
Since a double name was and is foreign and exotic for Russian speaker,
the Jews themselves eventually stopped to use them in everyday life
after they entered in large amounts into Russian society, while the
double name stayed be registered in official documents.
I have in my family archive documents >from 1880-s, in which my GF is
called in 3 different ways : Dov-Ber,Ber and Boris, very significant
illustration of the process.

Leonid Zeliger
Jerusalem
Israel

On 7/21/10, Jonathan Adams <pangolin19@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello:

I have found some of my grandfather's grammar school forms >from Grodno in
the late 1890s. On three different forms his name is listed as "Joseph
Naumovitch-Girshovitch Adunsky." This is the only place we have seen the
hyphenated patronymic. His father was Nahum; so was Girsh (Hirsh) his
grandfather.
Was this a common naming convention at the time? Thanks for any insights.


Jonathan Adams
Rockville, Md.


Larry Gaum
 

Original Message From: Leonid Zeliger <leonidze@gmail.com
To: Belarus SIG <belarus@lyris.jewishgen.org Sent: Thu, July 22 2010
Subject: Fwd: [belarus] dual patronymics Leonid Zeliger <leonidze@gmail.com>

I have in my family archive documents >from 1880-s, in which my GF is
called in 3 different ways : Dov-
Ber,Ber and Boris, very significant illustration of the process.Leonid
Permit me to make a comment.Ber is not a name, not even for your
GrandFather. Ber is an old reference to "Son Of"For example, my name is
Arya Leib, my father was Menasha Lazer. I am recorded as follows:
Arya Leib BER Menasha Lazer. I don't have 3 names, BER is "Son Of",
not my 3rd name. As you know, Son Of can also be: B'nai or Ben.

Larry Gaum
Toronto, Canada


leonidze@...
 

Dear Larry,
Thank you for a comment, but this is not a case.
Ashkenazi Jews used to build their names in double format when the
first part of the name was Hebrew (called IKAR Heb. the main) and
the second part (called KINUY Heb. the nickname) was its Yiddish
equivalent, often just Yiddish translation.
Thus you have standard double names like Tsvi-Hish (both parts mean
deer in Heb and Yidd), or Dov-Ber ( bear, as is in my case), or
Arye-Leib ( Lion) etc. There also many other traditional combinations
like Asher-Zelik, Yehuda-Leib , Yosef-Haim etc.
B"R which is an abbreviation of ben rabbi the son of rabbi (in this
case rabbi or rav means Mr.) is often pronounced as "be-rabbi, or
be-reb).
The names of Talmudic sages have sometimes the constituent Bar as in
Bar-Yohai or Bar-Kokhva. In this case Bar is Son in Aramaic language
and equivalent to Hebrew Ben.

Leonid Zeliger
Jerusalem


les evenchick
 

The revision lists are not census documents and so being missing >from them
is not unusual.

Others can give you more details.

Ovsei is equivalent to Yehoshua - Common in my family.

les
Les Evenchick
New Orleans

Searching EVENCHIK,EVENCHICK,AVIN,EVANS,EVEN,EVENS,CHERCHES
(Koidanov now Dzerzhinsk),EPSTEIN (Stoltsby)