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admixture analysis shows Ashkenazim and Sephardim as Middle Eastern and European populations. #dna


Beth Long
 

The admixture analysis may show that the average European Jew is
(for example) 63/64 Middle Eastern. Though I doubt that's the case.

However,
a Y-DNA analysis shows many Jews to have Q, R1a, and R1b direct male
ancestors. These are not Middle Eastern haplogroups.

Beth Long
Heimlich surname project administrator


Sean Silver <sean_silver@...>
 

Hello Beth,

Besides Vincent Vizachero's and my own work, there are now several
projects which have shown a correlation between this Eastern R1b
(colloquially called ht35), which is found in high frequencies and
broad genetic variance among the Southern Anatolia, the Caucasuses,
South Eastern Asia and the Levant. Conversely, this Eastern R1b
presents with a very low frequency and genetic variance within
Europe, particularly Western Europe. Peter Hrechdakian, the admin
of the Armenian and Assyrian DNA Projects, also offers data that
further confirms an established R1b presence within the geographic
area that was once Assyria. The Jewish clusters do indeed fit
within his clusters of Middle Eastern R1b, most of whom are tightly-
clustered -- none more than the Jewish clusters, which themselves
are tightly clustered and distinct >from the others.

At last year's FTDNA International Conference of Genetic Genealogy,
Vince and I had a long discussion with Dr. Michael Hammer, who has
since revised his theory of R1b migration to include the presence
of this R1b which never migrated into Europe. At last week's
conference, I spoke with Dr. Michael Hammer and Dr. Doron Behar
about the findings of my project, and both confirmed that it indeed
indicated such a presence of Jewish R1b with origins in the Middle
East. I have also worked at length with Bennett Greenspan of FTDNA
over the past three years on the project and he has devoted quite a
bit of time and support.

Roughly 120 project members (41% of the total project) all fit
within this Eastern R1b modal. These 120 individuals are sorted
into only a handful of clusters and all are SNP-confirmed only to
m269+ or L23+, negative the rest of the way downstream. All have an
indicative DYS 393=12 and a portion further have DYS 426=11, both of
which have a low mutation rate.

None of these project members have a non-Jewish match beyond Y-12
and all have a confirmed Jewish paternal history without knowledge
of conversion. 31 members are further confirmed to only have matches
with an oral tradition of being Cohanim, and are themselves tightly
clustered into 2 groups, none of whom have a non-Cohane, yet alone
non-Jewish match beyond Y-12. GATA-H4 = 12 is also an indicative
marker among these two clusters, which itself has a slow mutation
rate and is 1 allele apart >from the modal.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, I just wanted to clarify this
misconception. Is there indeed admixture within R1b? Yes, but it is
far smaller than we may have first conceived. There is a very small
instance of WAMH among the entire 300 person project.

Thanks,
Sean Silver
Jewish R1b Project
Cohane R1b Project
Jewish Moravian Project

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:47:55 -0700
From: bethlong3@yahoo.com

The admixture analysis may show that the average European Jew is
(for example) 63/64 Middle Eastern. Though I doubt that's the case.

However,
a Y-DNA analysis shows many Jews to have Q, R1a, and R1b direct male
ancestors. These are not Middle Eastern haplogroups.

Beth Long
Heimlich surname project administrator


Charles Nydorf <cnydorf@...>
 

The picture presented by admixture analysis of the Ashkenazim and
Sephardim is actually rather complex. European Sephardim and
Ashkenazim are very similar. In both the largest single component is
associated with southwestern European populations like the Sardinians.
Next in size is a component associated with Caucasus populations like
the Georgians. After that comes a component associated with southern
Middle Eastern populations like the Saudis. Next both groups have a
considerable component that is associated with northern European
populations like the Lithuanians. Here there is a difference between
Sephardim and Ashkenazim witht he northern European component about
twice as high among the Ashkenazim. All these components are
associated with Europe and the Middle East.
Other components are smaller. Sephardim have .1% of a component
associated with the Siberian populations like the Yakut. This
component is .6% among the Ashkenazim. A component associated with
East Asian populations like the Hmong of China is .2% among the
Sephardim and .8% among the Ashkenazim. These numbers are small but
higher among the Ashkenazim as would be expected.
In the broader picture the European Jews, Ashkenazim and Sephardim are
quite similar to Jewish populations >from Iraq, Iran and the Caucasus.

Charles Nydorf


Beth Long
 

Hi Sean,

Yes, we know there is R1b which never migrated into (Western) Europe.
We have quite a few of them in our Hungarian Bukovina project. Some of
our project members are the closest matches to the R1b Jews.

Beth Long


A. J. Levin <aj_levin@...>
 

Beth:

The yDNA, mtDNA, and autosomes can each be telling different stories.

In addition to Sean's comments on R1b, let me say:

Q1a is Central Asian. Q1b has only been found, at least that I know
of, in Near Easterners (including around Iraq) and in Afghanistan/
Pakistan. It might conceivably originate >from the time of Jews in
Persia or Babylon, or >from the Silk Route, but not >from Europe.

As to Ashkenazi R1a, there's still no clear evidence as to where
it's from. This haplogroup is relatively common in Kurds and
Anatolians, among others, but might conceivably come >from the
Steppe or >from Central or Eastern Europe (though if so, exactly
where is unclear).

Consider too that it is easier for women to become Jews, formally
or infomally, than men. Ashkenazi mtDNA actually has much more
diversity than yDNA.

Finally, bear this in mind when interpreting autosomal studies:
Europeans themselves have a consistent if low Near Eastern
component using any autosomal analysis, possibly >from the
expansion of early farmers, which is at a maximum in Europe in
the southeast/Eastern Mediterranean, and at a minimum in the
very far north of Europe.

Best,

A.J. Levin


Sean Silver <sean_silver@...>
 

Thanks for sharing the study, Charles! Out of curiosity, was this
found across all haplogroups? The reason I ask is that we have a few
haplogroups associated with the Jewish population, among them J1, J2,
Q, R1b, E, etc. Also, is there a freely-available or is it purchase-
only?

Thanks,
Sean Silver
Jewish R1b Project @ FTDNA
Jewish Cohane Project @ FTDNA
Moravian Jewish Project @ FTDNA

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 09:34:10 -0400
From: cnydorf@gmail.com

The picture presented by admixture analysis of the Ashkenazim and
Sephardim is actually rather complex. European Sephardim and
Ashkenazim are very similar. In both the largest single component is
associated with southwestern European populations like the Sardinians.
Next in size is a component associated with Caucasus populations like
the Georgians. After that comes a component associated with southern
Middle Eastern populations like the Saudis. Next both groups have a
considerable component that is associated with northern European
populations like the Lithuanians. Here there is a difference between
Sephardim and Ashkenazim witht he northern European component about
twice as high among the Ashkenazim. All these components are
associated with Europe and the Middle East.
Other components are smaller. Sephardim have .1% of a component
associated with the Siberian populations like the Yakut. This
component is .6% among the Ashkenazim. A component associated with
East Asian populations like the Hmong of China is .2% among the
Sephardim and .8% among the Ashkenazim. These numbers are small but
higher among the Ashkenazim as would be expected.
In the broader picture the European Jews, Ashkenazim and Sephardim are
quite similar to Jewish populations >from Iraq, Iran and the Caucasus.

Charles Nydorf