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admixture analysis shows Ashkenazim and Sephardim as Middle Eastern and European populations. #dna
Beth Long
The admixture analysis may show that the average European Jew is
(for example) 63/64 Middle Eastern. Though I doubt that's the case. However, a Y-DNA analysis shows many Jews to have Q, R1a, and R1b direct male ancestors. These are not Middle Eastern haplogroups. Beth Long Heimlich surname project administrator
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Sean Silver <sean_silver@...>
Hello Beth,
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Besides Vincent Vizachero's and my own work, there are now several projects which have shown a correlation between this Eastern R1b (colloquially called ht35), which is found in high frequencies and broad genetic variance among the Southern Anatolia, the Caucasuses, South Eastern Asia and the Levant. Conversely, this Eastern R1b presents with a very low frequency and genetic variance within Europe, particularly Western Europe. Peter Hrechdakian, the admin of the Armenian and Assyrian DNA Projects, also offers data that further confirms an established R1b presence within the geographic area that was once Assyria. The Jewish clusters do indeed fit within his clusters of Middle Eastern R1b, most of whom are tightly- clustered -- none more than the Jewish clusters, which themselves are tightly clustered and distinct >from the others. At last year's FTDNA International Conference of Genetic Genealogy, Vince and I had a long discussion with Dr. Michael Hammer, who has since revised his theory of R1b migration to include the presence of this R1b which never migrated into Europe. At last week's conference, I spoke with Dr. Michael Hammer and Dr. Doron Behar about the findings of my project, and both confirmed that it indeed indicated such a presence of Jewish R1b with origins in the Middle East. I have also worked at length with Bennett Greenspan of FTDNA over the past three years on the project and he has devoted quite a bit of time and support. Roughly 120 project members (41% of the total project) all fit within this Eastern R1b modal. These 120 individuals are sorted into only a handful of clusters and all are SNP-confirmed only to m269+ or L23+, negative the rest of the way downstream. All have an indicative DYS 393=12 and a portion further have DYS 426=11, both of which have a low mutation rate. None of these project members have a non-Jewish match beyond Y-12 and all have a confirmed Jewish paternal history without knowledge of conversion. 31 members are further confirmed to only have matches with an oral tradition of being Cohanim, and are themselves tightly clustered into 2 groups, none of whom have a non-Cohane, yet alone non-Jewish match beyond Y-12. GATA-H4 = 12 is also an indicative marker among these two clusters, which itself has a slow mutation rate and is 1 allele apart >from the modal. Sorry for the lengthy reply, I just wanted to clarify this misconception. Is there indeed admixture within R1b? Yes, but it is far smaller than we may have first conceived. There is a very small instance of WAMH among the entire 300 person project. Thanks, Sean Silver Jewish R1b Project Cohane R1b Project Jewish Moravian Project
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 11:47:55 -0700
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Charles Nydorf <cnydorf@...>
The picture presented by admixture analysis of the Ashkenazim and
Sephardim is actually rather complex. European Sephardim and Ashkenazim are very similar. In both the largest single component is associated with southwestern European populations like the Sardinians. Next in size is a component associated with Caucasus populations like the Georgians. After that comes a component associated with southern Middle Eastern populations like the Saudis. Next both groups have a considerable component that is associated with northern European populations like the Lithuanians. Here there is a difference between Sephardim and Ashkenazim witht he northern European component about twice as high among the Ashkenazim. All these components are associated with Europe and the Middle East. Other components are smaller. Sephardim have .1% of a component associated with the Siberian populations like the Yakut. This component is .6% among the Ashkenazim. A component associated with East Asian populations like the Hmong of China is .2% among the Sephardim and .8% among the Ashkenazim. These numbers are small but higher among the Ashkenazim as would be expected. In the broader picture the European Jews, Ashkenazim and Sephardim are quite similar to Jewish populations >from Iraq, Iran and the Caucasus. Charles Nydorf
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Beth Long
Hi Sean,
Yes, we know there is R1b which never migrated into (Western) Europe. We have quite a few of them in our Hungarian Bukovina project. Some of our project members are the closest matches to the R1b Jews. Beth Long
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A. J. Levin <aj_levin@...>
Beth:
The yDNA, mtDNA, and autosomes can each be telling different stories. In addition to Sean's comments on R1b, let me say: Q1a is Central Asian. Q1b has only been found, at least that I know of, in Near Easterners (including around Iraq) and in Afghanistan/ Pakistan. It might conceivably originate >from the time of Jews in Persia or Babylon, or >from the Silk Route, but not >from Europe. As to Ashkenazi R1a, there's still no clear evidence as to where it's from. This haplogroup is relatively common in Kurds and Anatolians, among others, but might conceivably come >from the Steppe or >from Central or Eastern Europe (though if so, exactly where is unclear). Consider too that it is easier for women to become Jews, formally or infomally, than men. Ashkenazi mtDNA actually has much more diversity than yDNA. Finally, bear this in mind when interpreting autosomal studies: Europeans themselves have a consistent if low Near Eastern component using any autosomal analysis, possibly >from the expansion of early farmers, which is at a maximum in Europe in the southeast/Eastern Mediterranean, and at a minimum in the very far north of Europe. Best, A.J. Levin
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Sean Silver <sean_silver@...>
Thanks for sharing the study, Charles! Out of curiosity, was this
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found across all haplogroups? The reason I ask is that we have a few haplogroups associated with the Jewish population, among them J1, J2, Q, R1b, E, etc. Also, is there a freely-available or is it purchase- only? Thanks, Sean Silver Jewish R1b Project @ FTDNA Jewish Cohane Project @ FTDNA Moravian Jewish Project @ FTDNA
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 09:34:10 -0400
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