FTDNA analysis question #dna


Alison Greengard
 

Hi,

I am new to DNA anlysis and am hoping someone can solve a puzzle in
my husband's FTDNA results. My husband's last name is GREENGARD.
Over the years we have collected numerous Greengard trees (that all
point to an origin of Virbalis, Lithuania and also point to them
being one family) but have had a hard time connecting the trees.
Several of the Greengard descendants can go back to their 3rd
gr-grandfather , but with my husband Tom we can only go back to his
gr-grandfather. We've made some progress, but decided to have two
male Greengard surname descendants test their Y-DNA-37 markers at
FTDNA. One is my husband Tom and the other is another Greengard.

The results are as follows:

The other Greengard descendant shows up as a potential 2nd to 4th
cousin of Tom in Family Finder. In the actual 37 marker charts, Tom
and this other Greengard differ on DYS464c, DYS464d and DYS CDYb.
This makes sense to me.

However, another individual with a completely different surname
shows up as an exact Y-DNA37 marker match. But he and Tom do not
show up as related in Family Finder. This individual can trace his
lineage via his different surname back to the 1750's. Interestingly,
this individual traces his lineage also back to Virbalis, and his
ancestors stayed with Greengards in NY when they first come to the
US.

Can anyone explain why someone with a different surname, has an exact
Y-DNA 37 marker match with my husband, can trace his lineage via that
other surname back to the 1750's, yet doesn't show up in Family
Finder? Clearly there is some tie to the Greengards since his
ancestors stayed with Greengards in NY upon emigrating.

Thank you.

Alison Greengard
Lakewood, Colorado, USA

Researching GREENGARD - Virbalis, Lithuania


A. J. Levin <aj_levin@...>
 

Alison:

I can think of two possible explanations. First, there may have
been recent mutations in one Greengard line. Second, there may be
an error in the pedigree down to a confusion over which of two
husbands to a woman was the father, for example, or something like
informal adoption, or even hanky-panky.

You could benefit >from upgrading all three kits to 67 or 111 Y-STR
markers, and >from testing men who descend >from another Greengard
branch, as well as >from his paper-trail paternal-line ancestor.

Also, in general terms, once you get to a third cousin once removed
or a fourth cousin, there's only about a 50% chance they will show
up in Family Finder because of the random vagaries of autosomal
recombination.

Best,

A.J. Levin

--- On Wed, 12/12/12, Alison Greengard <aligreengard@comcast.net> wrote:

Can anyone explain why someone with a different surname, has an exact
Y-DNA 37 marker match with my husband, can trace his lineage via that
other surname back to the 1750's, yet doesn't show up in Family
Finder? Clearly there is some tie to the Greengards since his
ancestors stayed with Greengards in NY upon emigrating.


DonnDevine@...
 

The two most likely explanations:

1. Nineteenth-century adoption of different surnames by related families.

2. Rearing of a child of Greengard descent by a family with a different
surname, which the Greengard descended was known by.

The known common locality and family associations would tend to confirm
either explanation.

Donn Devine
Wilmington, Delaware, USA

From: Alison Greengard <aligreengard@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:57:01 +0000 (UTC)

I am new to DNA anlysis and am hoping someone can solve a puzzle in
my husband's FTDNA results. My husband's last name is GREENGARD.
Over the years we have collected numerous Greengard trees (that all
point to an origin of Virbalis, Lithuania and also point to them
being one family) but have had a hard time connecting the trees.
Several of the Greengard descendants can go back to their 3rd
gr-grandfather , but with my husband Tom we can only go back to his
gr-grandfather. We've made some progress, but decided to have two
male Greengard surname descendants test their Y-DNA-37 markers at
FTDNA. One is my husband Tom and the other is another Greengard.

The results are as follows:

The other Greengard descendant shows up as a potential 2nd to 4th
cousin of Tom in Family Finder. In the actual 37 marker charts, Tom
and this other Greengard differ on DYS464c, DYS464d and DYS CDYb.
This makes sense to me.

However, another individual with a completely different surname
shows up as an exact Y-DNA37 marker match. But he and Tom do not
show up as related in Family Finder. This individual can trace his
lineage via his different surname back to the 1750's. Interestingly,
this individual traces his lineage also back to Virbalis, and his
ancestors stayed with Greengards in NY when they first come to the
US.

Can anyone explain why someone with a different surname, has an exact
Y-DNA 37 marker match with my husband, can trace his lineage via that
other surname back to the 1750's, yet doesn't show up in Family
Finder? Clearly there is some tie to the Greengards since his
ancestors stayed with Greengards in NY upon emigrating.


SVass <SVass@...>
 

Simply put, one-third of all direct paternal descendants >from a common
father will have zero mutations at 37 markers after seven generations.
Family Finder probably will not show a connection.
Sam Vass
Kent, WA, USA

On Dec 12, 2012, Alison Greengard wrote:

Can anyone explain why someone with a different surname, has an exact
Y-DNA 37 marker match with my husband, can trace his lineage via that
other surname back to the 1750's, yet doesn't show up in Family Finder?


Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

Alison,

The other comments are right. However, the two Greengards tested may only
be different on two Y-DNA markers. DYS 464 has 4 or more copies and are
listed in order of size. One mutation on one copy could change multiple
markers values. This happened in my subclade, J2b2e, when 464b, 464c and
464d was changed by a single mutation. DYS 464 and CDY are two of the
fastest mutating markers, so the STRs values you have does not rule out
your relationship with the other Greengard.

Sidney Sachs
Lorton, VA

From: Alison Greengard <aligreengard@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:57:01 +0000 (UTC

I am new to DNA anlysis and am hoping someone can solve a puzzle in my
husband's FTDNA results. My husband's last name is GREENGARD. Over the
years we have collected numerous Greengard trees (that all point to an
origin of Virbalis, Lithuania and also point to them being one family) but
have had a hard time connecting the trees. Several of the Greengard
descendants can go back to their 3rd
gr-grandfather , but with my husband Tom we can only go back to his
gr-grandfather. We've made some progress, but decided to have two male
Greengard surname descendants test their Y-DNA-37 markers at FTDNA. One
is my husband Tom and the other is another Greengard.

The results are as follows:

The other Greengard descendant shows up as a potential 2nd to 4th cousin
of Tom in Family Finder. In the actual 37 marker charts, Tom and this
other Greengard differ on DYS464c, DYS464d and DYS CDYb. This makes sense
to me.

However, another individual with a completely different surname
shows up as an exact Y-DNA37 marker match. But he and Tom do not show
up as related in Family Finder. This individual can trace his lineage via
his different surname back to the 1750's. Interestingly, this individual
traces his lineage also back to Virbalis, and his ancestors stayed with
Greengards in NY when they first come to the US.

Can anyone explain why someone with a different surname, has an exact
Y-DNA 37 marker match with my husband, can trace his lineage via that
other surname back to the 1750's, yet doesn't show up in Family
Finder? Clearly there is some tie to the Greengards since his
ancestors stayed with Greengards in NY upon emigrating.