Ancestry DNA #dna


David Goldman
 

Greetings. I am new to this Group, and would be interested to know whether
there any Jewishgenners who could share with the rest of us their own or
others' experience with the saliva DNA test process of Ancestry DNA?? Has
anyone encountered either unexpected surprises or insights >from the test
that would clarify genealogy?

David Goldman
NYC


charles goldenzon
 

The autosomal DNA test, be it with Ancestry, FTDNA, 23andMe or
myHeritage, is a great tool for genealogists to advance their
research. Each company will have their pros and cons. You can review
them in the ISOGG Wiki website (Autosomal DNA testing comparison chart).
But one must understand that without a solid and well researched family
tree the chances of a breakthrough are very slim, though there are
exceptions to the rule. The test will not return a magic list of matches
that will close gaps on one's family tree. One should expect to do hard
work if s/he is serious about using atDNA test to help the research. Sit
back and wait for a miracle match will not work on 99.9% of the cases.

Managing 14 kits in various vendors, I didn't get any unexpected surprise
or match with an immediate family member that I didn't know already. All
matches with unknown people were 2nd cousin and beyond (suggested by the
matching algorithm) and most likely are farther than this because of
endogamy. Many of the matches will not have family trees associated with
the result. Of the many that do have, most of the time I couldn't find a
common surname or place to justify the matching. Still, one can filter
the information or download it to excel and work the data to search for
possible common surnames and places.

Interpreting autosomal DNA results is not straightforward and requires
careful examination of each match. People should be patient and
persistent. Patient in that a significant match could show up in a
matter of weeks, months or even years. Maybe never. Persistent in that
they should contact as many matches as they can, knowing also that some
will never reply. Never give up.

Having said all that, I'm a firm believer on the atDNA test and keep
encouraging family members to test. I can also vouch for AncestyDNA,
but I'm also happy with the others. I'm now working with two matches
that appear to share gg or ggg grandparents in each case. One is >from
AncestryDNA and the other >from FTDNA. We're collaborating to confirm
the common ancestors and we're finding it very exciting.

Finally, one should transfer the data to other sites to try to reach
and be compared to as many testers as one can. This will increase the
likelihood of finding the right match.

Regards,

Charles Goldenzon
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil


Arlene Beare
 

Thanks to Charles for such a helpful post.
I agree with what he has written but would like to add some help I get from
Triangulation.

I use a programme called Double Match Triangulation (DMT) which I really
find helps me a lot to separate maternal and paternal matches. You make a
Chromosome Browser Result csv file >from FTDNA and you match this against
the CBR file of someone you are matched with. These are files a and b and
will bring up matches as c. Your match will need to send you the file. Some
are very cooperative and others are not. One needs to explain they are not
sending any DNA data in the file only matches.

The way it works is if a matches b and they both match c and each other that
is a DMT. In order to find matches to my paternal grandmother on my father's
side I needed to get cousins to test who have this grandmother as their
maternal grandmother. I have managed to get 2 to test and using the results
of their MtDNA matches and the Autosomal compared with my autosomal and the
results of triangulation I get a good idea of which side the autosomal match
is from.

You can also upload raw data >from Ancestry or FTDNa or My heritage to
Gedmatch.com which gives another pool to search. You can pay 10dollars for a
month to use their Tier 1 utilities . You need only pay for the one month
and then whenever you need it you can take another month. They also have a
Triangulation tool but this is single match and not as useful as DMT. They
do have very useful tools but of course the pool of users is much smaller
than FTDNA or Ancestry.

Arlene Beare
London UK

---
From: charles goldenzon <charlesgoldenzon@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:27:38 +0000

The autosomal DNA test, be it with Ancestry, FTDNA, 23andMe or myHeritage,
is a great tool for genealogists to advance their research. Each company
will have their pros and cons. You can review them in the ISOGG Wiki website
(Autosomal DNA testing comparison chart).
But one must understand that without a solid and well researched family tree
the chances of a breakthrough are very slim, though there are exceptions to
the rule. The test will not return a magic list of matches that will close
gaps on one's family tree. One should expect to do hard work if s/he is
serious about using atDNA test to help the research. Sit back and wait for a
miracle match will not work on 99.9% of the cases.
...


Adam Cherson
 

In regards to Arlene's triangulation post, I would like to add that
triangulation is not always as clear as one would hope. I have a pair of
dna results that I often use as triangulation guideposts. One kit is my
aunt's and the other is her paternal first cousin. One would think that
anyone that matches my aunt but not her paternal first cousin would
clearly be related to my aunt on her on her maternal side. The problem
is that even a known maternal 2nd cousin of hers also matches her
paternal 1st cousin. When you add the fact that the amount of gene
sharing among cousins of equal genealogical distance can vary
considerably, one is left with often ambiguous results. The point is of
course that dna analysis triangulations involving potential relatives
who are greater than 4 steps away (i.e. further than 1st cousins), and
especially in highly endogamous populations, are difficult if not
impossible to interpret in the absence of additional and supporting
genealogical information. Beware of isolated triangulation!

Adam Cherson


Arlene Beare
 

Thanks Adam I do agree with you. However with the DMT programme I can see
how many cM's in each match >from A-c or B-c and lots of other details which
help me decide if Jewish Endogamy is at work.

It is not an exact science just a helpful tool.

Arlene Beare

-----Original Message-----

From: "Adam Cherson" <adam.cherson@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 09:00:07 -0400

In regards to Arlene's triangulation post, I would like to add that
triangulation is not always as clear as one would hope. I have a pair of dna
results that I often use as triangulation guideposts. One kit is my aunt's
and the other is her paternal first cousin. One would think that anyone that
matches my aunt but not her paternal first cousin would clearly be related
to my aunt on her on her maternal side. The problem is that even a known
maternal 2nd cousin of hers also matches her paternal 1st cousin. When you
add the fact that the amount of gene sharing among cousins of equal
genealogical distance can vary considerably, one is left with often
ambiguous results. The point is of course that dna analysis triangulations
involving potential relatives who are greater than 4 steps away (i.e.
further than 1st cousins), and especially in highly endogamous populations,
are difficult if not impossible to interpret in the absence of additional
and supporting genealogical information. Beware of isolated triangulation!


rayvenna@...
 

Adam,

You're correct, but as with everything else in science, accuracy will
increase with the number of data points. If your triangulation consists
of a number of known points, then you can give the results more weight.

For example, if I want to see if someone is related to me on my paternal
side or my maternal side, I'll compare them against at least 10 people
who share my paternal DNA but not my maternal side, then do the same for
my maternal size. If that person matches at least half of the people on
the paternal size and none on the maternal side, I'll feel confident
that the match is through my paternal side. I'll then repeat the
process against various paternal branches in an attempt to narrow things
down to a specific part of the paternal tree. It doesn't always work,
but I've had enough successes to continue using this method.

If a kit matches the several people on both the paternal and maternal
sides, then I know without a doubt that endogamy is at play. They're
related through both sides, probably considerably farther back than the
estimates predict.

This process can become insanely expensive, but I believe it works
fairly well (as does Lara Diamond and Israel Pickholtz). I've used it
with success to identify 3rd cousins, two of which have more
traditional genealogical evidence to corroborate the relationship. I'm
still looking for traditional sources to verify the 3rd.

Thanks,
Mindie Kaplan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Cherson adam.cherson@gmail.com" <dna@lyris.jewishgen.org>
To: "DNA Testing" <dna@lyris.jewishgen.org>

In regards to Arlene's triangulation post, I would like to add that
triangulation is not always as clear as one would hope. I have a pair of
dna results that I often use as triangulation guideposts. One kit is my
aunt's and the other is her paternal first cousin. One would think that
anyone that matches my aunt but not her paternal first cousin would
clearly be related to my aunt on her on her maternal side. The problem
is that even a known maternal 2nd cousin of hers also matches her
paternal 1st cousin. When you add the fact that the amount of gene
sharing among cousins of equal genealogical distance can vary
considerably, one is left with often ambiguous results. The point is of
course that dna analysis triangulations involving potential relatives
who are greater than 4 steps away (i.e. further than 1st cousins), and
especially in highly endogamous populations, are difficult if not
impossible to interpret in the absence of additional and supporting
genealogical information. Beware of isolated triangulation!