Sefardim in Ashkenaz territory #galicia


Andrew Blumberg <ajb61@...>
 

Miriam,

This is certainly a documented fact. See if you can rent a PBS series on
video and DVD called "Civilization: History and the Jews". The series
covers the Diaspora of the Jews including the expulsion of the Jews from
Spain.

You can also learn about this event in books or on the Internet. Try a
search in Google for "expulsion of Jews >from Spain". Here are two sites
that I found that might interest you.
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/expulsion.html
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/1492-jews-spain1.html

Regards,

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Solon [mailto:msolon@ameritech.net]
Subject: Sefardim in Ashkenaz territory
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is an ongoing myth in my family that we are descended >from
Sefardim who migrated east after 1492 and wound up in Central and
Eastern Europe. Is there any documentation for such a phenomenon?
--
Miriam Solon


Miriam Solon <msolon@...>
 

There is an ongoing myth in my family that we are descended >from
Sefardim who migrated east after 1492 and wound up in Central and
Eastern Europe. Is there any documentation for such a phenomenon?
--
Miriam Solon


CLAUSSEN DAN and DIANE <didado@...>
 

"There is an ongoing myth in my family that we are descended from
Sefardim who migrated east after 1492 and wound up in Central and
Eastern Europe. Is there any documentation for such a phenomenon?"
--
Miriam Solon

Miriam,
There has been extensive discussion about the presence of Sephardic people
in Ashkenazi territory in last three years. I would highly suggest you and
other interested researchers search the discussion groups archives for the
Sefard SIG and Ukraine SIG. Especially check out the Sefard discussion
archives. There have been some disagreements about especially about any
large migration of Sephardim as high up as Ukraine, Lithuania etc. But
there is both literary evidence and some physical and cultural evidence of
the existence of Sephardic people as far back as the 9th and 10th
centuries..

Best wishes,
Diane Kriegman Claussen


Yekkey@...
 

Like many myths there is probably some basis in reality. Some of the
expellees >from Spain went to Germany or Holland and later worked their way
east.

Another route was >from Turkish territory in Europe across the Danube to
Rumania and Austria-Hungary.

At one time there was a synagogue in Bucharest, Rumania called "die sfardishe
shul." At the same time there was a synagogue in Sofia, Bulgaria called
"kahal de los ashkenazim." The border was fluid and people crossed it.

Dan Nussbaum
Fall River, Massachusetts

Searching for
NUSSBAUM, KATZENSTEIN-Raboldshausen, Bad Hersfeld and Rhina Germany
TEPLITZKY, BENDERSKY, KASZKIET, KASHKET, GREENBERG-Uman, Ukraine
ROSENTHAL, S(C)HENK(EL)MAN-Zinkov, Ukraine
BILD, KASHLEVSKY-anywhere


Mila Begun <mmbegun@...>
 

There is a persistent family myth that our ORLIK family >from Talnoye,
Ukraine, was originally >from Spain, via Denmark. Of course, grains of
salt must be taken with this story since it alledgedly comes >from "crazy
Aunt Rose." Discounted as totally untrue by most of the family because
of the source, it may actually contain some elements of truth.

It's very hard to prove now that our origin was in Spain, but I'm still
trying. One possible (or fantasized) clue is our name, ORLIK, which is
not a very common name for Jews in Eastern Europe, although you do come
across it in Poland. Most of the ORLIKs I've found in my research are
Catholic and >from Czechoslovakia.

ORLIK in Russian, Ukrainian and Polish means "eagle," or as some Russian
friends have advised, ahem, a very small eagle. (Maybe it's only a
chicken hawk???) The word for eagle in Spanish is Aquila. My fantasy
is that the Aquila family changed their name to the equivalent word in
Russian when they arrived. I may never find the truth, but it's a
satisfying imagined scenario.

Mila Begun in NYC

Researching: ORLIK, TALANSKY, ELLIS, YELLISHAVETSKY, BRODSKY from
Talnoye (Talna in Yiddish)


Yekkey@...
 

Mila,

More likely they were >from Germany and the name was ADLER. However, never
say never.

Dan Nussbaum
Fall River, Massachusetts

Searching for
NUSSBAUM, KATZENSTEIN-Raboldshausen, Bad Hersfeld and Rhina Germany
TEPLITZKY, BENDERSKY, KASZKIET, KASHKET, GREENBERG-Uman, Ukraine
ROSENTHAL, S(C)HENK(EL)MAN-Zinkov, Ukraine
BILD, KASHLEVSKY-anywhere


DBelgray@...
 

Dear Miriam,

I encourage you also to send your question to anusim.com, the
Sephardic/Converso/Marrano listserve. Certainly there were emigrants >from
Spain to Central and Eastern Europe.

Hasta luego,

David C Belgray, NYC


Cyril FOX <cyril@...>
 

The fact that a shul is called "sefardish" does not necessarily mean that
it is a Sephardic shul.

Here in London , there was a shul in the East End called Philpot Street
Sefardish Shul.

However , its congregants were Ashkenaze.

The reason for the name was the fact that they used the old sephardic
liturgy.

Cyril Fox , JGSGB.
London