Viewmate help please 1878 Galician Birth Record #galicia


Fran Segall <FranSegall@...>
 

I have posted 3 files on ViewMate which are >from a 1878 Galician birth
record. I believe they are occupations, and I believe they are in
German. I would appreciate some help deciphering and translating them.

The direct links are:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6618
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6619
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6620

Please respond privately. Thank you for your help.

Fran
Manassas, VA
FranSegall@...
***********************************
Doing research on:
Galicia, Poland: STRICK (Wielopole)
Galicia, Ukraine: LICHTMANN (Stanislavov/Ivano-Frankovs'k and
Bolszowce/Bol'shovtsy)


Peter Jassem <pjassem@...>
 

The first one says Morocznik (surname? place name?) and the other two refer
to Bolszowce, which is a small place (now) in Ukraine. Can't figure out
anything else without the context.

Peter Jassem
Toronto

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have posted 3 files on ViewMate which are >from a 1878 Galician birth
record. I believe they are occupations, and I believe they are in
German. I would appreciate some help deciphering and translating them.

The direct links are:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6618
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6619
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=6620

Please respond privately. Thank you for your help.

Fran
Manassas, VA
FranSegall@...
***********************************

Moderator Note: Reminder to respond privately when asked.


Alexander Sharon
 

Peter Jassem wrote:

The first one says Morocznik (surname? place name?) and the other two
refer
to Bolszowce, which is a small place (now) in Ukraine. Can't figure out
anything else without the context.
Peter,

I read this word as "Molocznik" (Polish for the milkman).

Letter 'l' in this particular word represents broken Polish 'l'. Some people
use to write broken 'l' as a small dash around the top of the letter which
is often confused with the letter 't'.

Morocznik would be also an unusual surname for a Jewish Galitzyaner >from the
Rohatyn region, but it would not be out of place in the Central Poland.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary


Margaret Mikulska
 

Alexander Sharon wrote:

I read this word as "Molocznik" (Polish for the milkman).
Just a small correction: "molocznik" is *Russian* (definitely not
Polish) word for the milkman. The Polish word is "mleczarz".

Letter 'l' in this particular word represents broken Polish 'l'. Some
people use to write broken 'l' as a small dash around the top of the
letter which is often confused with the letter 't'.
A horizontal stroke (straight or tilde-like) at the very top of the
letter "l" is how the "crossed l" is most often written in Polish (in
handwriting only, of course). Nonetheless, the letter in question
doesn't look to me -- a native Polish speaker -- like "l" or
"crossed/broken l" -- it looks like an old-fashioned "r" (as opposed to
the "r" used nowadays in Polish handwriting). Of course one has to take
into account idiosyncrasies of scribes; on the hand, I do wonder why the
Russian word "molocznik" would be spelled in Latin characters, with
Polish spelling (that is, with "cz" and "crossed l").

-Margaret Mikulska
Warsaw, Poland / Princeton, NJ, USA
silvagen@...


Alexander Sharon
 

Margaret,

What then in your opinion, profession/occupation represents "Morocznik"?

Alexander Sharon

Alexander Sharon wrote:

I read this word as "Molocznik" (Polish for the milkman).
Just a small correction: "molocznik" is *Russian* (definitely not Polish)
word for the milkman. The Polish word is "mleczarz".

Letter 'l' in this particular word represents broken Polish 'l'. Some
people use to write broken 'l' as a small dash around the top of the
letter which is often confused with the letter 't'.
A horizontal stroke (straight or tilde-like) at the very top of the letter
"l" is how the "crossed l" is most often written in Polish (in handwriting
only, of course). Nonetheless, the letter in question doesn't look to
me -- a native Polish speaker -- like "l" or "crossed/broken l" -- it
looks like an old-fashioned "r" (as opposed to the "r" used nowadays in
Polish handwriting). Of course one has to take into account idiosyncrasies
of scribes; on the hand, I do wonder why the Russian word "molocznik"
would be spelled in Latin characters, with Polish spelling (that is, with
"cz" and "crossed l").


Margaret Mikulska
 

Alexander Sharon wrote:

Margaret,
What then in your opinion, profession/occupation represents "Morocznik"?
Alexander Sharon

Alexander Sharon wrote:

I read this word as "Molocznik" (Polish for the milkman).
Just a small correction: "molocznik" is *Russian* (definitely not
Polish) word for the milkman. The Polish word is "mleczarz".
First of all, I am not sure if "Morocznik" is indeed the name of a
profession and not a family name. If the original poster could post a
little bit of context -- that is, a larger snippet of the document -- it
would be easier to figure this out or at least to make a more educated
guess. (Is that possible?)

Second, I have not encountered this word in Polish (and the spelling of
this word, as shown on the record, is Polish), but there are so many
words completely forgotten nowadays that I can't claim such word never
existed. In any case, it (or rather "molocznik") certainly isn't the
Polish word for milkman.

I can't exclude the possibility that this is indeed the name of a
profession (in Polish); in such case, it would be a Ukrainian-
influenced, possibly dialectal word )which would be quite possible in
Galicia). The occurrence of the first vowel instead of two consonants in
this position in the word ("Mor-" instead of "Mr-") is very
uncharacteristic for Polish, but quite frequent in Ukrainian -- or
Russian, for that matter.

The existence of the family name "Morocznik" is attested in Poland,
although it seems to be a rare name.

-Margaret Mikulska
Warsaw, Poland / Princeton, NJ, USA


Alexander Sharon
 

Dear Margaret,

I understand that Fran Segall has already forwarded copies of the birth
records under the question to the Viewmate. This will allow us following the
review to discuss the issue further.

The appearance of those scanned pages may take some time - delay maybe due
to the summer vacations or some other obstacles.

Best Regards,

Alexander

Moderator Note: Fran, let us know when the record has been posted to ViewMate, so
interested parties might study it. This thread is now on hold until then.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Margaret Mikulska" <silvagen@...>
To: "Alexander Sharon" <a.sharon@...>
Cc: "Gesher Galicia SIG" <galicia@...>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [galicia] Viewmate help please 1878 Galician Birth Record


Alexander Sharon wrote:

Margaret,
What then in your opinion, profession/occupation represents "Morocznik"?
Alexander Sharon

Alexander Sharon wrote:

I read this word as "Molocznik" (Polish for the milkman).
Just a small correction: "molocznik" is *Russian* (definitely not
Polish) word for the milkman. The Polish word is "mleczarz".
First of all, I am not sure if "Morocznik" is indeed the name of a
profession and not a family name. If the original poster could post a
little bit of context -- that is, a larger snippet of the document -- it
would be easier to figure this out or at least to make a more educated
guess. (Is that possible?)

Second, I have not encountered this word in Polish (and the spelling of
this word, as shown on the record, is Polish), but there are so many words
completely forgotten nowadays that I can't claim such word never existed.
In any case, it (or rather "molocznik") certainly isn't the Polish word
for milkman.

I can't exclude the possibility that this is indeed the name of a
profession (in Polish); in such case, it would be a Ukrainian- influenced,
possibly dialectal word )which would be quite possible in Galicia). The
occurrence of the first vowel instead of two consonants in this position
in the word ("Mor-" instead of "Mr-") is very uncharacteristic for Polish,
but quite frequent in Ukrainian -- or Russian, for that matter.

The existence of the family name "Morocznik" is attested in Poland,
although it seems to be a rare name.

-Margaret Mikulska
Warsaw, Poland / Princeton, NJ, USA