Strange entry at All Poland Database #galicia


Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

Those index entries in JewishGen's All Poland database were
indexed by Jewish Records Indexing - Poland (www.jri-poland.org)
and shared with JewishGen as a convenience to researchers.

Not strange at all. Galician birth entries without the father's
name listed is not uncommon. The lack of a father's name in a
birth record is the result of Austrian laws that require a civil
recorded marriage to exist for the child to be considered
legitimate in the eyes of the Austrian Crown.

First, let's talk about civil marriages. The Hasidic movement
spread rapidly throughout Galicia in the 18th century. Hasidic
leaders wielded great power in the community. Roughly 6 of 7
Galician Jews were Hasidim. Marriage was an area of great
contention between the Crown and the Hasidic leadership of the
Jewish community. The Crown designated and paid one Rabbi in
each district to perform marriages. These Rabbi's were usually
more secular than the majority Hasidim of the community. So it
was normal for the Jews to resist the mandate for civil marriage.
Jews were married under a Chupa in a purely religious ceremony,
which was not ever registered with the Crown. Therefore, you will
not find many civil marriages in the JRI-Poland database.

For births considered out of wedlock by the Crown, regulations
specified how the father's name was to be recorded. His name was
not to be recorded unless he officially acknowledged paternity.
So every time our grandparents -- bubbe and zeyda -- had a child,
zeyda would go to the vital records registrar and swear in front
of witnesses that he was indeed the father. This meant that his
name could be listed on the birth record in the remarks column,
but the Crown still assigned bubbe's maiden name to the child.

The above was the law, but in practice the recording of birth
events of a couple without a civil marriage was very
inconsistent. In some cases, the mother's maiden name was
recorded for the child. In some cases, the father's surname was
recorded for the child. In many cases, no surname was identified
for the child. For illegitimate births, sometimes the father's
name was recorded in the column for father, sometimes in the
remarks column with or without a sworn statement of paternity,
and sometimes the father's name was not recorded at all. It
depended on the town and the registrar. I have seen examples of
all three ways to record the father of an illegitimate child in
the same town by different registrars. The lack of any father's
name on a birth record could mean that the father did not report
the birth in person. In other words, another family member or
friend reported the birth.

These areas of Galician civil marriage and legitimacy are very
complex and definitely make research in Galicia more challenging.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland

Dr. Richard Pavelle wrote:

At http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/

search for "surname sounds like Mailin" and "given name sound
like Sachne"

It return ten entries for the mother Sachne MEILEN but in no
entry is the father named. I have never see a result such as this
with no father given. Comments?


Max Heffler
 

This was common when the couple only had a religious marriage and
not a civil marriage and the children were then considered
illegitimate.


Dr. Richard Pavelle <rp@...> wrote:

At http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/
search for "surname sounds like Mailin" and "given name sound like
Sachne"

It return ten entries for the mother Sachne MEILEN but in no entry
is the father named. I have never see a result such as this with no
father given. Comments?


Dr. Richard Pavelle <rp@...>
 

At

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/

search for "surname sounds like Mailin" and "given name sound
like Sachne"

It return ten entries for the mother Sachne MEILEN but in no
entry is the father named. I have never see a result such as this
with no father given. Comments?

Dr. Richard Pavelle

Researching Derfler, Godt, Entenberg, Turer


Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
 

Dear David:

I would venture an educated guess that it was your family
situation that changed. The most likely reasons were that someone
in the family (likely one of the children) was planning to
emigrate or the family had a legal or inheritance issue that had
to be adjudicated.

I do not think that the attitude of the Hasidic leadership had
changed, but by 1914 more Jews were being assimilated and less
religious.

Mark Halpern

----- Original Message -----

Dear All,

Mark Halpern wrote:

First, let's talk about civil marriages. The Hasidic movement
spread rapidly throughout Galicia in the 18th century. Hasidic
leaders wielded great power in the community. Roughly 6 of 7
Galician Jews were Hasidim. Marriage was an area of great
contention between the Crown and the Hasidic leadership of the
Jewish community. The Crown designated and paid one Rabbi in
each district to perform marriages. These Rabbi's were usually
more secular than the majority Hasidim of the community. So it
was normal for the Jews to resist the mandate for civil marriage.
Jews were married under a Chupa in a purely religious ceremony,
which was not ever registered with the Crown. Therefore, you will
not find many civil marriages in the JRI-Poland database.
My great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of his
children, all born between 1880 & 1902, show them as 'nieslubna'
- illegitimate. However, there is an added notation that shows
that he engaged in a civil marriage in 1916 and that he
acknowledged each of the children as his.

My question is - why the change? - was there a compelling reason,
e.g. pressure >from the state? - did the attitude of the Hassidic
community change? - or does it relate to our particular family
circumstances - whatever they were?

David Scriven,
Vancouver, Canada


Stephen Weinstein
 

The major changes at that time were caused by World War One.
Galacia had been ruled by the Hapsburgs and had been part of what
history books call Austria-Hungary and Jewishgen calls Austria
since 1772 (longer than the U.S. had been independent). Then,
Russia invaded (starting in 1914) and everything changed.

It was not a different attitude towards "the" state.

It was a different state.

Stephen Weinstein
stephenweinstein@...
Camarillo, CA, USA


David Scriven <davidwriter@...> wrote:

... My great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of
his children, all born between 1880 & 1902, show them as
'nieslubna' - illegitimate. However, there is an added notation
that shows that he engaged in a civil marriage in 1916 and that
he acknowledged each of the children as his.

My question is - why the change? - was there a compelling reason,
e.g. pressure >from the state? - did the attitude of the Hassidic
community change? - or does it relate to our particular family
circumstances - whatever they were?


David Scriven
 

Dear All,

Mark Halpern wrote:

First, let's talk about civil marriages. The Hasidic movement
spread rapidly throughout Galicia in the 18th century. Hasidic
leaders wielded great power in the community. Roughly 6 of 7
Galician Jews were Hasidim. Marriage was an area of great
contention between the Crown and the Hasidic leadership of the
Jewish community. The Crown designated and paid one Rabbi in
each district to perform marriages. These Rabbi's were usually
more secular than the majority Hasidim of the community. So it
was normal for the Jews to resist the mandate for civil marriage.
Jews were married under a Chupa in a purely religious ceremony,
which was not ever registered with the Crown. Therefore, you will
not find many civil marriages in the JRI-Poland database.
My great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of his
children, all born between 1880 & 1902, show them as 'nieslubna'
- illegitimate. However, there is an added notation that shows
that he engaged in a civil marriage in 1916 and that he
acknowledged each of the children as his.

My question is - why the change? - was there a compelling reason,
e.g. pressure >from the state? - did the attitude of the Hassidic
community change? - or does it relate to our particular family
circumstances - whatever they were?

David Scriven,
Vancouver, Canada
Researching: SINGER, RUSS, POMERANZ, ACHTEL, WANG


Rivka Schirman <capitetes@...>
 

David Scriven wrote:

My great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of his
children, all born between 1880 & 1902, show them as 'nieslubna'
- illegitimate. However, there is an added notation that shows
that he engaged in a civil marriage in 1916 and that he
acknowledged each of the children as his.
My question is - why the change?
That might depend very much on which town we're talking about.
Until 1914 the region named Galicia was under the sovereignty of
the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, but under Polish Autonomy. With
the breakout of WWI, the region - mainly what we call east
Galicia - passed >from one occupation to another more often than
any other piece of land in Europe.

The Russians were epxelling the Jews >from all border towns. Jews
fled naturally the frontline, too. Sometimes, they returned home.
Sometimes they remained in their refuge new places. Sometimes they
moved further into the hinterlands. Sometimes they further
immigrated. Sometimes they wished to leave the Austrian Empire (or
what was being left of it) or Europe altogether. In any case, they
might have began to think of the need to have travel papers all on
the same name.

On the other hand, in 1916 they might have lived or settled in a
town where they were in peace >from battles for a while and had a
change of political heart or financial situation that justified
having a civil marriage and recognized official papers for after
the war.

So, where were they in 1916? Or rather, where were the
illegitimate children born, where did the legitimizing marriage
take place?

Rivka

Rivka Schirman nee Moscisker
Paris, France
Searching: MOSCISKER >from Brody, Budzynin, Buczacz, Okopy
Szwietej Trojce, Krakow, Lwow), WEISSMANN and REINSTEIN >from
Okopy Szwietej Trojce (Borszczow, Tarnopol)