Date
1 - 7 of 7
Strange entry at All Poland Database #galicia
Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
Those index entries in JewishGen's All Poland database were
indexed by Jewish Records Indexing - Poland (www.jri-poland.org) and shared with JewishGen as a convenience to researchers. Not strange at all. Galician birth entries without the father's name listed is not uncommon. The lack of a father's name in a birth record is the result of Austrian laws that require a civil recorded marriage to exist for the child to be considered legitimate in the eyes of the Austrian Crown. First, let's talk about civil marriages. The Hasidic movement spread rapidly throughout Galicia in the 18th century. Hasidic leaders wielded great power in the community. Roughly 6 of 7 Galician Jews were Hasidim. Marriage was an area of great contention between the Crown and the Hasidic leadership of the Jewish community. The Crown designated and paid one Rabbi in each district to perform marriages. These Rabbi's were usually more secular than the majority Hasidim of the community. So it was normal for the Jews to resist the mandate for civil marriage. Jews were married under a Chupa in a purely religious ceremony, which was not ever registered with the Crown. Therefore, you will not find many civil marriages in the JRI-Poland database. For births considered out of wedlock by the Crown, regulations specified how the father's name was to be recorded. His name was not to be recorded unless he officially acknowledged paternity. So every time our grandparents -- bubbe and zeyda -- had a child, zeyda would go to the vital records registrar and swear in front of witnesses that he was indeed the father. This meant that his name could be listed on the birth record in the remarks column, but the Crown still assigned bubbe's maiden name to the child. The above was the law, but in practice the recording of birth events of a couple without a civil marriage was very inconsistent. In some cases, the mother's maiden name was recorded for the child. In some cases, the father's surname was recorded for the child. In many cases, no surname was identified for the child. For illegitimate births, sometimes the father's name was recorded in the column for father, sometimes in the remarks column with or without a sworn statement of paternity, and sometimes the father's name was not recorded at all. It depended on the town and the registrar. I have seen examples of all three ways to record the father of an illegitimate child in the same town by different registrars. The lack of any father's name on a birth record could mean that the father did not report the birth in person. In other words, another family member or friend reported the birth. These areas of Galician civil marriage and legitimacy are very complex and definitely make research in Galicia more challenging. Mark Halpern JRI-Poland Dr. Richard Pavelle wrote: At http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/ search for "surname sounds like Mailin" and "given name sound like Sachne" It return ten entries for the mother Sachne MEILEN but in no entry is the father named. I have never see a result such as this with no father given. Comments?
|
|
Max Heffler
This was common when the couple only had a religious marriage and
not a civil marriage and the children were then considered illegitimate. Dr. Richard Pavelle <rp@...> wrote: At http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/ search for "surname sounds like Mailin" and "given name sound like Sachne" It return ten entries for the mother Sachne MEILEN but in no entry is the father named. I have never see a result such as this with no father given. Comments?
|
|
Dr. Richard Pavelle <rp@...>
At
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Poland/ search for "surname sounds like Mailin" and "given name sound like Sachne" It return ten entries for the mother Sachne MEILEN but in no entry is the father named. I have never see a result such as this with no father given. Comments? Dr. Richard Pavelle Researching Derfler, Godt, Entenberg, Turer
|
|
Mark Halpern <willie46@...>
Dear David:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I would venture an educated guess that it was your family situation that changed. The most likely reasons were that someone in the family (likely one of the children) was planning to emigrate or the family had a legal or inheritance issue that had to be adjudicated. I do not think that the attitude of the Hasidic leadership had changed, but by 1914 more Jews were being assimilated and less religious. Mark Halpern
----- Original Message -----
Dear All, Mark Halpern wrote: First, let's talk about civil marriages. The Hasidic movementMy great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of his children, all born between 1880 & 1902, show them as 'nieslubna' - illegitimate. However, there is an added notation that shows that he engaged in a civil marriage in 1916 and that he acknowledged each of the children as his. My question is - why the change? - was there a compelling reason, e.g. pressure >from the state? - did the attitude of the Hassidic community change? - or does it relate to our particular family circumstances - whatever they were? David Scriven, Vancouver, Canada
|
|
Stephen Weinstein
The major changes at that time were caused by World War One.
Galacia had been ruled by the Hapsburgs and had been part of what history books call Austria-Hungary and Jewishgen calls Austria since 1772 (longer than the U.S. had been independent). Then, Russia invaded (starting in 1914) and everything changed. It was not a different attitude towards "the" state. It was a different state. Stephen Weinstein stephenweinstein@... Camarillo, CA, USA David Scriven <davidwriter@...> wrote: ... My great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of his children, all born between 1880 & 1902, show them as 'nieslubna' - illegitimate. However, there is an added notation that shows that he engaged in a civil marriage in 1916 and that he acknowledged each of the children as his. My question is - why the change? - was there a compelling reason, e.g. pressure >from the state? - did the attitude of the Hassidic community change? - or does it relate to our particular family circumstances - whatever they were?
|
|
David Scriven
Dear All,
Mark Halpern wrote: First, let's talk about civil marriages. The Hasidic movementMy great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of his children, all born between 1880 & 1902, show them as 'nieslubna' - illegitimate. However, there is an added notation that shows that he engaged in a civil marriage in 1916 and that he acknowledged each of the children as his. My question is - why the change? - was there a compelling reason, e.g. pressure >from the state? - did the attitude of the Hassidic community change? - or does it relate to our particular family circumstances - whatever they were? David Scriven, Vancouver, Canada Researching: SINGER, RUSS, POMERANZ, ACHTEL, WANG
|
|
Rivka Schirman <capitetes@...>
David Scriven wrote:
My great-grandfather was Hassidic and the birth records of hisThat might depend very much on which town we're talking about. Until 1914 the region named Galicia was under the sovereignty of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, but under Polish Autonomy. With the breakout of WWI, the region - mainly what we call east Galicia - passed >from one occupation to another more often than any other piece of land in Europe. The Russians were epxelling the Jews >from all border towns. Jews fled naturally the frontline, too. Sometimes, they returned home. Sometimes they remained in their refuge new places. Sometimes they moved further into the hinterlands. Sometimes they further immigrated. Sometimes they wished to leave the Austrian Empire (or what was being left of it) or Europe altogether. In any case, they might have began to think of the need to have travel papers all on the same name. On the other hand, in 1916 they might have lived or settled in a town where they were in peace >from battles for a while and had a change of political heart or financial situation that justified having a civil marriage and recognized official papers for after the war. So, where were they in 1916? Or rather, where were the illegitimate children born, where did the legitimizing marriage take place? Rivka Rivka Schirman nee Moscisker Paris, France Searching: MOSCISKER >from Brody, Budzynin, Buczacz, Okopy Szwietej Trojce, Krakow, Lwow), WEISSMANN and REINSTEIN >from Okopy Szwietej Trojce (Borszczow, Tarnopol)
|
|