Puzzled about my GGM #hungary


ezwiebac <ezwiebac@...>
 

I hope someone can suggest possibilites for inconsistent information on my
Father's Grandmother >from NagyKanizsa, Zala, Hung.
My Father's Mother , Fani, had 2 sisters; Celicia and Regine.

Cecilia came to U.S. in 1882. I have her "Anyakonyvi kivonat" (an original,
with her birth date of 1855). This form has her mothers name: Hangyabor
Schwarz. So I thought H. Schwarz was my GGM. The kivonat is dated 1876; is
that significant?

About Regine, born 1843, died in Vienna; I recently received a letter from
the Israelische Kultusgemeinde Vienna. They said Regine's mother was
Katharina Kohn.

Finally, about my GM Fani (born 1857, died in N.Kanizsa)); I just received
a Death Record statement (thru the local Hungarian Consulate) from
N.Kanizsa. It states that her mother was Katalin Kohn.

I'm looking at 3 pieces of data; 1st sister (1843) and last sister (1857)
with mother K. Kohn. Middle sister (1855) with mother H. Schwarz; the only
"original" document.

Any ideas on why the different mothers names?

Ed Zwieback
Long Beach, CA
Researching:
ZWIEBACK/Herend, Hung.; Graz, Aus.
POLLAK/KOHN/N.Kanizsa, Hung.; Varazdin, Croa.
.


PGergay@...
 

Dear Ed,
As you probably surmised, the date on the Birth Registry Extract is,
normally, insignificant and irrelevant. The only exception is when it provides
the audit trail for name changes, such as one occuring due to remarriage.
The explanation for a different name for the mother of one of the sisters
(Cecilia) probably lies in a very common error of those times. Usually, the
births were reported by a mid-wife, whose name frequently (and, of course,
mistakenly) was entered as the mother's name. You can very easily determine
now if this was the case---if you need any guidance on how to go about it ,
please contact me privately, through my E-mail (preferrably not until mid-
November).
By the way, I assume that you know that the names Katalin and Katharina
are interchangeable (usually, primarily depending on the nationality of the
Registrar, rather than the names actually given....)
Regards,
Peter A. Gergay
San Francisco, CA


Gzsuzsi@...
 

Ed,

In a message dated 9/30/98 6:43:49 PM, you wrote:

<<Cecilia came to U.S. in 1882. I have her "Anyakonyvi kivonat" (an original,

with her birth date of 1855). This form has her mothers name: Hangyabor

Schwarz. So I thought H. Schwarz was my GGM. The kivonat is dated 1876; is

that significant?

Although I'm not familiar with Hungarian names of the mid 1800s, I have never
heard of the name "Hangyabor". If it exists, it sounds extremely Hungarian
(translated- it means 'antwine'). There is another name of this nature,
Gyongyver - 'pearlblood', but the Jews who used that name, mostly in the
1900s, used the form Gyongyi - no 'blood' word in it.

The way I see it, there may be a mistake in Cecilia's birth year (she may have
been the youngest sister and perhaps by that time your ggfather may have had a
second wife. Or, the the Cecilia whose "Kivonat" you have may not be your
Cecilia.

Susan Geroe


korman3@...
 

I think that death records are the least reliable of all records. Often,
the information is given by a person who is the least distressed and
with the least accurate information at the time of the death. Of a
husband and wife, the spouse who dies first has a much better chance of
having a certificate with the correct information because the other
spouse, who knows the information, is alive and available for
questioning. When the second spouse dies, all bets are off. An in law,
neighbor or grandchild could have provided the information and just got
it all mixed up with other family information.

In my family I have a similar situation. In marriage records >from the
1870s, the mother is listed as Sarlotta Kanitz Back. But when she died
(and she died second) all of a sudden she's Sarlotta Epstein.

So, I'd go with the birth certificate and try to find more corroborating
sources.

Debbi


PGergay@...
 

Dear Ed,
As you probably surmised, the date of issuance on the Registry Extract is,
normally, insignificant and irrelevant. The only exception is when it provides
the audit trail for name changes, such as one occuring due to remarriage.
The explanation for a different name for the mother of one of the sisters
(Cecilia) probably lies in a very common error of those times. Usually, the
births were reported by a mid-wife, whose name frequently (and, of course,
mistakenly) was entered as the mother's name. You can very easily determine
now if this was the case---if you need any guidance on how to go about it ,
please contact me privately, through my E-mail (preferrably not until mid-
November).
By the way, I assume that you know that the names Katalin and Katharina
are interchangeable (usually, primarily depending on the nationality of the
Registrar, rather than the names actually given....)
Regards,
Peter A. Gergay
San Francisco, CA