* Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long) #hungary


Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Dear Ricky and all,

Since this subject could be of interest to all H-siggers, I'm
replying your letter to the list.

As far as I know, "magyarositas" was common practice among Jews *and
gentiles* since the 18th century. The main motives behind this trend
were two: the mandatory decree for the Jews to adopt surnames (>from
1786 on) and the exacerbated Hungarian nationalism which resulted in
the 1848 revolution. What motivated mostly the Jews was the impulse
to get accepted by the Hungarian society (assimilation). Somebody
called Feher could circulate better in gentile circles then if he was
called Veisz (the Hungarian spelling of Weiss).

So this trend was extremely strong and only ceased during WW2 when,
no matter what was ones surname, 3 previous generations of gentile
ancestors were the only guarantee for non deportation or harassment
by the [anti] Jewish Laws (Zsido torvenyek) and the vicious
"nyilasok" (Arrow Cross gendarmerie).

Even during the communist regime the trend continued, although with
lesser vigor. This time the reason was different. It was *safer* not
to carry a very Jewish surname because, despite all the propaganda,
the communist regime was anti-sionist and anti-semite, mainly during
the Stalin era. A relative, who was born Hellschein, only changed his

surname to Takacs in 1948. By then he was an officer in the Hungarian
Army.

As for registers about name Hungarization, I am familiar with only
one very important publication (which contains family names of Jews
and gentiles):

Szazadunk Ne'vva'ltoztata'sai
(this century's changes of names)
a book published by Viktor Hornyanszky in 1895
which contains thousands of surnames of people who "hungarized" their
names >from 1800 to 1893. This is a real jewel for the genealogist but
it presents one BIG hurdle for the researcher: the names are listed
in alphabetical order but according to the surname TAKEN, not the
surname the person hold *before* he/she changed it. And there is no
cross index!

Thus, the book's searching can be extremely time consuming, as one
has to read through all its pages (over 300) to eventually bump into
a hit. And don't trust that *logical* name changes (that is,
meaningful translations >from one language into Hungarian) will lead
you quickly to discover an ancestor. Here are some examples of how
weirdly people acted when changing their surnames:

EISENBERGER (>from the iron mount) became VASVARI (>from the iron castle)
but several other surnames (Kohn, Hoffman, Varecska, Popa) were
changed into the same Hungarian name

WILFINGER became VECSEI but several WEISZes also adopted this same surname

BRANIK (portal keeper in Slovak) became VEDFI (the protector), but
people previously called WENK also took the same surname.

The book offers the following information:
* Surname taken
* Previous surname
* Occupation
* Town name (not clear if this is the birthplace or of abode)
* (eventually) the name of children who also took the same surname
* Number of the decree which authorized the name change; the last two
digits indicate the year in which the change was authorized.

How useful can this listing be to the researcher? Well, it depends.
You may find an unknown ancestor, you may confirm that an ancestor
existed and changed his name or you can get more confused then you
were before starting the search :-)

Now to the good news: this book has been filmed by the Mormons, thus
its contents can be examined in film number 0897093. BTW, this same
film contains the Postal gazetteer of the Austro-Hungarian Empire,
published in 1910, so you pay for one and get two excellent sources
for research.

Good hunt
Tom

PS: I first discovered the book mentioned through one of H-sigs very
active members - Janos Bogardi. I would ask Janos (if he is reading
this) to add his comments to the above, since he is very much more
familiar with Hungarian genealogical research then I'm.


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
no dia 03.01.01 `as 20:59 -0500 horas, Zebradisc@aol.com escreveu:
at 03.01.01 - 20:59 -0500, Zebradisc@aol.com wrote:

>| In a message dated 01/03/2001 5:32:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>| tom.vene@uol.com.br writes:
>|
>| > surnames could change according to the
>| > predominant language at a given period of time. In Hungary, for
>| > example, "magyarositas" was a very common practice. Wolf became
>| > Farkas, Stern became Csillag, Weisz became Feher
>|
>| i am quite interested in your above stated observation--Weisz is among my
>| tree as is coincidentally Feiner (and i have looked at Feher in
this regard)
>| where can i read more about "magyarositas" can you shed any
light as to what
>| period this was most common?
>|
>| i have some rather commonplace names all subject to interesting
variations so
>| it gets curioser & curioser...many thanks for any assistance
>| ricky schultz

--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


tom klein <tom_klein@...>
 

the book in question was published over 100 years ago, so i would assume that it is in the public domain by now. would it be feasible to convert it to a database and possibly make it available online? (that would solve the problem of cross-referencing.)

does anyone have the facilities to scan and ocr a microfilm? (assuming that the mormons' microfilm is reasonably legible.)


...... tom klein, toronto
------------------------------------------------------
See moderator's note below for further information.

--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote:

[snip!]

As for registers about name Hungarization, >snip>
Szazadunk Ne'vva'ltoztata'sai (this century's changes of names)
a book published by Viktor Hornyanszky in 1895
which contains thousands of surnames of people who "hungarized" their
names >from 1800 to 1893. This is a real jewel for the genealogist but
it presents one BIG hurdle for the researcher: the names are listed
in alphabetical order but according to the surname TAKEN, not the
surname the person hold *before* he/she changed it. And there is no
cross index!
[snip!]


mod.- Jewishgen and H-sig, working together, have hired a researcher based
in Budapest to digitize this book and do the same for other important
documents related to Jewish family history. The Hornyanszky book and the
books by Fenyes (see H-sig archives -search for Fenyes) are the first
assignments to be done. We are looking for additional suggestions to keep
our researcher active and gainfully employed on a full time basis.
Therefore, your suggestions for projects and SPONSORSHIP of projects is
encouraged. Tax deductible contribtutions for this purpose can be made to
Jewishgen at http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/Hungary.html
(please specify H-sig general fund) You can also request that your
sponsored project be for one or more of your ancestral towns. The purpose
of this forum is to assist one another in providing information and
suggesting strategies and solutions. Sometimes the solution require
investigation, research and practical applications. This can only be done
by people who have the expertise to do so. Our Jewishgen/H-sig researcher
can be the person who does these tasks if we we are willing to pool our
resources and provide for him as well. I'll refer to him by the
moniker, "Lone Ranger". For the time being it is to everyone's advantage
to keep his identity a mystery. As a practical and urgent matter, anyone
who can provide a desktop computer for delivery to Budapest is urged to e-
mail Joyce Field at jfield@indy.net

Flash-1. Last time I looked we had 497 subscribers (closing in on the magic 500)
2. I will complete the Mukachevo/Munkacs shtetlpage today or tommorrow and
submit it to Jewishgen. Depending on how long the approval process takes
the site should be up very soon.LS


Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@...>
 

Hello listers,

Incidentally I am also working on making this book available for computer users.

Should any of you be interested, please contact me off-list.

All the best,

Janos Bogardi / Radix.

PLEASE SEE MODERATOR NOTE 2 BELOW....

Subject: Re: * Magyarositas = Hungarization (a bit long)
From: tom klein <tom_klein@tvo.org>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:23:28 -0500
X-Message-Number: 4

the book in question was published over 100 years ago, so i would assume that it is in the public domain by now. would it be feasible to convert it to a database and possibly make it available online? (that would solve the problem of cross-referencing.)

does anyone have the facilities to scan and ocr a microfilm? (assuming that the mormons' microfilm is reasonably legible.)

...... tom klein, toronto
------------------------------------------------------
See moderator's note below for further information.

--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote:

[snip!]

As for registers about name Hungarization, >snip>
Szazadunk Ne'vva'ltoztata'sai (this century's changes of names)
a book published by Viktor Hornyanszky in 1895
which contains thousands of surnames of people who "hungarized" their
names >from 1800 to 1893. This is a real jewel for the genealogist but
[snip!]

mod.- Jewishgen and H-sig, working together, have hired a researcher
based in Budapest to digitize this book and do the same for other
important documents related to Jewish family history. The Hornyanszky
book and the books by Fenyes (see H-sig archives -search for Fenyes) are
the first <snip>

moderator note2 and questions:


I wrote the following on my "Research Trip Report" date 9/27/2000:


"Finally, regarding the topic of name changes, in the Szechenyi Hungarian
National Library I found a book in the non-circulating book room titled
Szasadunk Nevvaltoztatasai 1800-1893, call number /1/171/40. It was
published in 1895 and is similar to the name change registration books
mentioned previously. This is a small format book of 253 pages and has a
brown cover. Two pages >from the book would fit on a letter sized page. The
size and number of pages would make this book amenable for photocopying."

IS THIS THE BOOK published by Viktor Hornyanszky, referred to above?
ALSO, PLEASE BE AWARE THAT there were semi-annual publications listing
names changes. How do these books fit into plans for distribution?: Will
the data in them be included as well?

As reported in my message of 9/27:

"...a soft cover large format book titled Kimutatas- Az 1910 evi I.
feleben engedelyezett nevvaltoztatasokrol (rough translation:
Announcement - for 1910 (part I) permission given to change family names)
his is an alphabetical listing with the following column headings
(followed by a sample listing) 1. Eredeti Vezeteknev (Adler, Samuel) 2.
Felvett uj vezeteknev (Balog)3. A csaladfo es gyermekeinek - subheading a.
polgari allasa (hentes which means butcher. b.lakhelye (Budapest) c.
szuletesi heye / eve (Szentpeter/1874 - this is birthplace and year of
birth) d. vallasa (izr.)4. trans.-registration number (171252). This file
had volumes 1 & 2 for 1910. There must be additional books such as these
for different years. I would think that these books could also be found in
Budapest libraries and archives. These books would be a valuable addition
to our research tools."

MY FINAL QUESTION HERE IS has the work of Agnes Varkany been published and
what does her research entail?

Quoting >from the same report:

"There is a well known archivist in Budapest by the name of Agnes Varkany
who is researching these books..."
LS


AttilaRona@...
 

Hi Tom,

I think, that "magyarosit=E1s" had roots in the fact that "Greater" Hungary=20=
had=20
only a little more than 50% Hungarian population, and this was a way to=20
increase the percentage. The theory was that if someone had a Hungarian name=
,=20
spoke Hungarian and this way had a Hungarian culture, he or she was Hungaria=
n=20
no matter where he or she came from. I find this quite liberal.=20

I might be wrong, but I thought people had to get only their grandparents=20
birth certificate during the Horthy regime.

Attila R=F3na=20


Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@...>
 

Dear Louis and listers,

Re: Szazadunk nevvaltozasai (surname changes of our [19th century) Louis wrote:

moderator note2 and questions:

I wrote the following on my "Research Trip Report" date 9/27/2000:

"Finally, regarding the topic of name changes, in the Szechenyi Hungarian
National Library I found a book in the non-circulating book room titled
Szasadunk Nevvaltoztatasai 1800-1893, call number /1/171/40. It was
published in 1895 and is similar to the name change registration books
mentioned previously. This is a small format book of 253 pages and has a
brown cover. Two pages >from the book would fit on a letter sized page. The
size and number of pages would make this book amenable for photocopying."

IS THIS THE BOOK published by Viktor Hornyanszky, referred to above?
Yes it is this book. Viktor Hornyanszky is the publisher. The author is
anonymous on the book, however, we know that it was Zoltan Szentivanyi.


ALSO, PLEASE BE AWARE THAT there were semi-annual publications listing
names changes. How do these books fit into plans for distribution?: Will
the data in them be included as well?

As reported in my message of 9/27:

"...a soft cover large format book titled Kimutatas- Az 1910 evi I.
feleben engedelyezett nevvaltoztatasokrol (rough translation:
Announcement - for 1910 (part I) permission given to change family names)
his is an alphabetical listing with the following column headings
(followed by a sample listing) 1. Eredeti Vezeteknev (Adler, Samuel) 2.
Felvett uj vezeteknev (Balog)3. A csaladfo es gyermekeinek - subheading a.
polgari allasa (hentes which means butcher. b.lakhelye (Budapest) c.
szuletesi heye / eve (Szentpeter/1874 - this is birthplace and year of
birth) d. vallasa (izr.)4. trans.-registration number (171252). This file
had volumes 1 & 2 for 1910. There must be additional books such as these
for different years. I would think that these books could also be found in
Budapest libraries and archives. These books would be a valuable addition
to our research tools."
I do not know these publications.

MY FINAL QUESTION HERE IS has the work of Agnes Varkany been published and
what does her research entail?

Quoting >from the same report:

"There is a well known archivist in Budapest by the name of Agnes Varkany
who is researching these books..."
LS
Prof. Agnes R. Varkonyi (if she is the person) is a respected historian
for early modern Hungarian history, with main interest on the 18th
century, and recently, on environmental history. I do not know if she does
any research into surname changes.


There is one more resource that I am aware of and is relevant to our
subject. Hungary's official gazette, the Budapesti Kozlony published name
changes up to 1916. So, this can be used as a continuation for the above
mentioned book. The following information
is included in the Budapesti Kozlony:
- old surname, given name(s)

- profession
- illetoseg (Zustandigkeit) - if known or applicable
- place of residence
- family members - if affected by the surname change
- new, changed surname
- permit number, which is actually the file number at Hungary's Ministry
of Interior


Hope this helps.

All the best,

Janos Bogardi / Radix.


Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@...>
 

Dear Chaim and listers,

Chaim Frenkel wrote:

"JB/R" == Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@bogardi.com> writes:
JB/R> - permit number, which is actually the file number at Hungary's Ministry
JB/R> of Interior

Are these records still extant?
I do not have extensive experience with them. In the two cases I have had so far
I was lucky both times: the files were available. (The archives of the Hungarian
Ministry of Interior can be found in the old building of the Hungarian National
Archives: Budapest's Becsikapu ter.) The files included official correspondence
between the ministry office and county authorities, certificates by local
authorities, and in one of the cases also the original application of the person
who wanted to change his surname. In this latter he gave the reasons for the
change, and his original signature could be found at the bottom, too. Good if you
are curious about the handwriting of the person <g>.

Due to the large amount of documents handled and stored in the archives of this
government body, there was systematic weeding out of files after a certain period
of time. I do not know if files containing surname changes were affected by this
or not.

One more thing to consider. This subject is somewhat sensitive. It is a common
practice in Hungarian archives, just like in any archives, that files get closed
for a certain period. I am not sure how long this period is in case of a surname
change.

The clerk responsible for the Ministry of Interior files in the archives could
provide the missing information. Perhaps somebody visiting the archives soon
could contact him/her, or, next time I am there, I could also ask for some
guidance.

While on the subject of surname changes. Could someone help me with a
puzzle?

(Thanks to Paul Lindhardt extensive work, which helped me tremendously.)

My maternal ggm was born CSILLAG, married my ggf as CSILLAG, gave
birth to my gf and his brother as STERN, died as Csillag.

The actual questions.

Why should two of her children be registered as STERN?

As far as I know, the family has always been Orthodox, so assimilation
doesn't seem to be a reason for the original CSILLAG.
Sure this will not solve your puzzle, it is still remarkable that it were not
only adult age people who changed their surnames: quite often underage people had
name changes, too. Obviously their parents arranged things for them like this.

Hope this helps.

Janos Bogardi / Radix.


AttilaRona@...
 

This book is either published or going to be published in Hungary.

Attila R=F3na


Chaim Frenkel <chaimf@...>
 

"JB/R" == Janos Bogardi / Radix <janos@bogardi.com> writes:
JB/R> - permit number, which is actually the file number at Hungary's Ministry
JB/R> of Interior

Are these records still extant?

While on the subject of surname changes. Could someone help me with a
puzzle?

(Thanks to Paul Lindhardt extensive work, which helped me tremendously.)

My maternal ggm was born CSILLAG, married my ggf as CSILLAG, gave
birth to my gf and his brother as STERN, died as Csillag.

The actual questions.

Why should two of her children be registered as STERN?

As far as I know, the family has always been Orthodox, so assimilation
doesn't seem to be a reason for the original CSILLAG.

<chaim>

P.S. Anyone have any connections to STERN/CSILLAG >from (Nyir)Bokony?

--
Chaim Frenkel Nonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
chaimf@pobox.com +1-718-236-0183


Patricia J. Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

This book is available through the Mormon Family History Centers. I just
ordered it for myself. The film number is 0897093.

Although none of the records indicate that the name change was carried on
through the children, there are notations in the records that Travnicsek
was changed to Mezei in 1895 and the date with the Ministry of Interior's
permit number. >from what I understand there was another name change in
Czech Republic, which changed the name Salek to Travnicsek around 1851! I
believe it is all the same family.

Pat


Chaim Frenkel <chaimf@...>
 

Err, did something get edited out? What book?

A> This book is either published or going to be published in Hungary.
A> Attila Róna

--
Chaim Frenkel


mod. I too had the same question, and Attila responded that he was
referring to the book by Bela Kempelen on Jewish noble families. Messages
that go to the list should be reviewed for clarity and reasonableness.
Also, it seems that I can't remind people enough to snip out
redundant/unecessary narrative when they are responding to questions by
others. The excisions should also include the h-sig/Jewishgen boilerplate
info at the bottom of each posted message. Also, this list cannot process
messages posted in MIME, HTML or any other "language" except "plain text".
Thank you for your cooperation.LS


AttilaRona@...
 

Kempelen B=E9la: Magyar Zsid=F3 Csal=E1dok is the book that was discussed, a=
nd it=20
is available in Hungary for $10 at Makkabi Jewish store. the e-mail address=
=20
is makkabi@mail.tunet.hu

Attila Rona=20


Ilan Koma <kozmai@...>
 

AttilaRona@aol.com wrote:

I might be wrong, but I thought people had to get only their grandparents
birth certificate during the Horthy regime.

Attila Róna
It seems that Attila Rona is wrong about the law
I intereviwed my father at length about that point and this what I got:
a)The hungarian law said that a person is considered Hungarian if his father is Hungarian.
This what somewhat uncclear since you had to prove that Adam was Hungarian, and therefore
an administartive regulation was issued that that it is enough to prove that your male
ancestor was Hungarian in 1851 when they start issuing birth certificates. Hungarian in
1851 meant that the persom was born in the area of greater Hungary.
b)On top of it by the Trianon treaty, you were Hungarian if you could prove that at the
time of Trianon treaty(1920) you had some municipal registration in smaller Hungary.
My father could not produce his ggfateer birth certificate, and so in 1938 he was called to
the police(or some other similar institution) and was given a formal notice of him being
expelled >from Hungary. Nothing further was done about it. In october 1939 he fortunately
decided of his own free will to leave the country for Palestine.
Ilan Kozma


Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Ilan Koma schrieb:

AttilaRona@aol.com wrote:
I might be wrong, but I thought people had  to get only their grandparents
birth certificate during the Horthy regime.

Attila Róna
It seems that Attila Rona is wrong about the law I intereviwed my father at length about that
point and this what I got:
a)The hungarian law said that a person is considered Hungarian if his father is Hungarian.
This what somewhat uncclear since you had to prove that Adam was Hungarian, and therefore an
administartive regulation was issued that that  it is enough to prove that your male ancestor
was Hungarian in 1851 when they start issuing birth certificates. Hungarian in 1851 meant
that the persom was born in the area of greater Hungary.
b)On top of it by the Trianon treaty, you were Hungarian if you could prove that at the time
of Trianon treaty(1920) you had some municipal registration in smaller Hungary. My father
could not produce his ggfateer birth certificate, and so in 1938 he was called to the
police(or some other similar institution) and was given a formal notice of him being expelled
from Hungary. Nothing further was done about it. In october 1939 he fortunately decided of
his own free will to leave the country for Palestine.
Ilan Kozma
I am afraid there is a mixture about being Hungarian and/or Jewish and your father was already
far away when the most cruel rulings came into effect.

 Being an alien or not Hungarian (Jew) led to the massacre in Kamanets- Podolsk of 26'000 - the
first 5 figure massacre of the Nazi's "Final Solution", of the close 18'000 deportees from
Hungary, only about 2'000 survived.

Until the German invasion, regarding of the different Jewish laws life was acceptable in
Hungary. There were several discriminating laws, but still in our Gymnasium (Evangelical,
Lutheran?) there were 5 Jewish students in a class of 30, well above the proportion of the Jews
in the town (Bekescsaba 6%). I try to transcribe the lines >from "The Politics of Genocide, The
Holocaust in Hungary" Randolph Braham which shows the effects of the 3 anti Jewish laws:

The First Anti Jewish Law (Law No. XV:1938) went into effect on May 29, 1938. It set a 20
percent ceiling on the proportion of Jews in the professions and in financial, commercial, and
industrial enterprises employing more than ten persons. Enacted into law on May 4, 1939, the
Second Anti Jewish Law (Law No. IV:1939) went well beyond the scope of the first, restricting
to 6 percent the proportion of Jews allowable in such enterprises. It even provided a detailed
and complicated religious and "racial" definition of who was a Jew. Both laws were supported
with various degrees of enthusiasm by the representatives of the major Christian churches. The
Christian church leaders manifested some anxiety over the Third Anti Jewish Law (Law No.
XV:1941), by far the most brazenly racist piece of legislation ever adopted in Hungary, which
affected a considerable number of their parishioners. The law, which emulated Nazi Germany's
Nuremberg Law of 1935, went into effect on August 2, 1941. Among other things, it prohibited
marriage and sexual relations between Jews and non-Jews. The three major anti Jewish laws were
succeeded by a large number of legislative acts and governmental decrees that had a devastating
effect
on the economic well-being of the Jews, impacting especially hard those in the middle and lower
classes. The plight of indigent Jews, both indigenous and foreign, was partially alleviated by
the relatively large network of educational cultural institutions and social welfare
organizations that were maintained individually or collectively by the three major Jewish
denominations: the Neolog, Orthodox, and Status Quo.
 

I didn't found at the first sight any short and good definition of the question, "Who is a Jew"
in english, the best I found is >from Jeno Levai's "Fekete konyv, a magyar zsidosag
szenvedeseirol (Black Book , on the suffering of the Hungarian Jews)" it is in connection with
the third Jewish Law(but it is also incomplete). I transcribe it in Hungarian and try to give a
rough translation in english.

1. aki az izraelita hitfelekezet tagja,
    members of the Jewish community
2. aki az 1919. evi julius 31. napja utan tert at,
    The ones, converted after 31. July 1919
3. aki 1919 julius 31. napja utan anelkul lepett ki az izraelita hitfelekezetbol, hogy mas
felekezetbe belepett volna,
    Ones who left ?after? 31. July 1919 the Jewish community without becameing  member of
another one.
4. aki az 1919. evi julius ho 31. napia utan szuletett, ha a megielolt ido-
pontban apja vagy anyja az izaelita hitfelekezet tagia volt. (Kivetelek
a hosi halalt halt szulok gyermekei, hadirokkantak, tuzharcosok vagy
hadiozvegyek.) -
    Ones born after 31. July 1919, if the mother or father were at that time members of a
Jewish community (exceptions children of war's dead, disabled soldier, front soldier or war
widow).

I hope that my information help to clarify the subject.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


Chaim Frenkel <chaimf@...>
 

Was the documentation for proof of Hungarian citizenship required only for
males of were women required to provide the same information?
My mother told me that this requirement was applied both to men, and their
spouses as well as for single women (widows and divorcees too).

Chaim Frenkel Brooklyn, NY chaimf@pobox.com

(That search, helped me discover that my ggm was both Stern/Csillag, which
was what gave my gf such grief when he needed the proof.)


AttilaRona@...
 

I am sorry, but I did not mean to stir up any controversy. My father said,=20
that he and my mother had to get the birth certificate and marriage=20
certificate for their parents and grandparents. Anyway, my parents were born=
=20
in 1906 and 1913, their parents were born between 1870 and 1888, and their=20
grandparents between 1833 and 1853. Because the registrations started circa=20
1950, older records were difficult to obtain. After many years of research,=20=
I=20
have been able to find only a few out of the sixteen.

Attila R=F3na


Leslie Gyi <leslie.gyi@...>
 

I don't think this should be viewed as controversy. It is instead a =
pooling
of information of how Hungarian Laws changed over-time, the affect on =
our
ancestors names, and legal documents. I think a compilation of such
information overtime will help us all in our research.

Leslie Gyi nee FEIG

-----Original Message-----
From: AttilaRona@aol.com [mailto:AttilaRona@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 1:04 PM
To: Hungarian SIG
Cc: h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org
Subject: Re: * Magyarositas =3D Hungarization (a bit long)


I am sorry, but I did not mean to stir up any controversy. My father =
said,=20
that he and my mother had to get the birth certificate and marriage=20
certificate for their parents and grandparents. Anyway, my parents were =
born

in 1906 and 1913, their parents were born between 1870 and 1888, and =
their=20
grandparents between 1833 and 1853. Because the registrations started =
circa=20
1950, older records were difficult to obtain. After many years of =
research,
I=20
have been able to find only a few out of the sixteen.

Attila R=F3na


mod.- when there aren't too many messages to the sig I think it wouldn't
be burdensome to have some off topic discussion (as some may consider
these messages). However, while we have a very liberal interpretation of
what is considered Hungarian Jewish family research, we should not stray
too far.LS