h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>

i don't know for certain, but which operating system and which language is tom venetianer using on his computer?

some non-english systems may need extra characters (in addition to standard ascii), and there is no single standard for encoding those extra characters, which can cause confusion and problems.

there may be a preference somewhere to force messages to be sent as plain ascii, but that would have to be set on a case-by-case basis for each different user's configuration - not a fun task, and probably well outside the scope of this list.

a modest suggestion to the moderator: please "bounce" such messages back to the sender whenever you notice them. the senders are the ones best able to fix the message, plus this may encourage them to fix the root of the problem, by finding and changing the appropriate option.

....... tom klein, toronto

Subject: * long shot (correction From: Tom Venetianer
<> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:41:44 -0200
X-Message-Number: 4

It beats me why the JewishGen server "translated" the capital 'F'
into =46. So here are the corrections of the list I sent yesterday:

=46ISCH is FISCH =46elso:zsolcsa is Felso:zsolcsa and =46add is Fadd


Moderator VK: This is not an uncommon problem. Can anyone explain?

tom klein <bossman@...>

unfortunately, jewishgen's databases aren't very good at hungarian material (d-m soundex searches don't seem to understand hungarian orthography very well), and the given names database isn't any better.

it failed my very first test, "geza", which is a fairly common hungarian name, as well as "zoli", "pista", "bozsi", "rozsi", "janos", lacko", "aladar", "arpad", and of course, "tamas". (it's too late at night to be creative, so i just pulled a couple of familiar names >from amongst the cobwebs...) and yes, jews did have plenty of these non-biblical names.

as for the ones that are represented, "miksa" is given as translating to the yiddish "miksa" (not much help here), and without the english equivalent "maximillian", which i would have expected. likewise, "jeno" shows a yiddish equivalent of "yenne" (?), but doesn't give an english equivalent of "eugene", which i would have expected. the listing for "lajos" lists "layosh" as the hebrew and yiddish names, which doesn't seem right to me, at least not based on my experience. (in my case, "lajos" was "shlomo" in hebrew, and "simon" was "yehoshiyahu", to use just my two gfs for example.)

it would seem to me that this database was created by and for the "usual polish/russian" crowd. sigh...


....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: Tom is correct that Esterson's database doesn't work very well for Hungarian names. I recommend the list by Jared Seuss at <>

Subject: Given Names Database
From: Vivian Kahn <>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:21:57 -0800
X-Message-Number: 6

For more information on the secular and legal versions of Jewish
names, check out Gerald Esterson's Given Names Data Base at

Using the search feature I was able to find out, for example, that
Netti is a nickname for Netta and that other Yiddish forms of this
name are Nettchen and Nettel.


You can resolve your problem with accented letters with installing the East
European reader >from Microsoft Window upgrade site.

Attila Rona