More questions about names #hungary


Robert Neu
 

To my experience >from looking at countless Hungarian pre 1895 B,M,D
FHL Films as well as about 50,000 records for the 1848 census, children
having the same secular name as their parents is very common.

Go on the AHD search the records for any town and look at the result.

Robert Neu
--- Cohentalk@aol.com wrote:

Dear Members,

Sometimes, parents chose names for their babies that were another
form of their own names or so similar, that I wonder if they did this
from lack of naming knowledge. Did the rabbis advise those parents,
beforehand? I am referring to my g gm who's name was Roza and her
daughter was named Racza and called Rotzi.

Is there any connection between the female names Seva and Sheindel?

Thanks for your help,
Linda Cohen
Michigan USA


Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

Seva is probably Sheva, short for Batsheva or possibly Elisheva. Not related
to Sheindl.
Ida

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Dr. Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Tappuah 7/3, Arad
IL-89053, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: Cohentalk@aol.com [mailto:Cohentalk@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 8:47 PM
To: H-SIG
Subject: [h-sig] More questions about names


Dear Members,

Sometimes, parents chose names for their babies that were another form of
their own names or so similar, that I wonder if they did this >from lack of
naming knowledge. Did the rabbis advise those parents, beforehand? I am
referring to my g gm who's name was Roza and her daughter was named Racza
and called Rotzi.

Is there any connection between the female names Seva and Sheindel?

Thanks for your help,
Linda Cohen
Michigan USA


cohentalk@...
 

Dear Members,

Sometimes, parents chose names for their babies that were another form of their own names or so similar, that I wonder if they did this >from lack of naming knowledge. Did the rabbis advise those parents, beforehand? I am referring to my g gm who's name was Roza and her daughter was named Racza and called Rotzi.

Is there any connection between the female names Seva and Sheindel?

Thanks for your help,
Linda Cohen
Michigan USA


Gábor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Did the rabbis advise those parents, beforehand?
I don't think that the rabbi had to much influence in the naming, it
might be different by the orthodox community, but the majority of the
Hungarian Jews were quite assimilated and followed other naming conventions.
What Robert Neu says "children having the same secular name as their
parents" it was quite usual by the not Jewish population, ifjabb (Jr.),
idösb (Sr.) etc. but Jews preferred to take the name of perished family
members. I am not saying that this is or was a general rule, but to my
knowledge it was often practisized.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


Robert Neu schrieb:

To my experience >from looking at countless Hungarian pre 1895 B,M,D
FHL Films as well as about 50,000 records for the 1848 census, children
having the same secular name as their parents is very common.

Go on the AHD search the records for any town and look at the result.

Robert Neu
--- Cohentalk@aol.com wrote:


Dear Members,

Sometimes, parents chose names for their babies that were another
form of their own names or so similar, that I wonder if they did this
from lack of naming knowledge. Did the rabbis advise those parents,
beforehand? I am referring to my g gm who's name was Roza and her
daughter was named Racza and called Rotzi.

Is there any connection between the female names Seva and Sheindel?

Thanks for your help,
Linda Cohen
Michigan USA


tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

that sounds unusual, although i haven't spent time looking at the records.
but are they using the same name, or is it written as if it were a second,
or middle name? i think that jewish names like "yitzhak ben avraham pipick"
often were recorded as "yitzhak avraham pipick", which to us might look like
the son receiving his father's name as a middle name, where in reality,
it was just a patronymic (and one that might well have disappeared after
emancipation). at least that pattern seemed to emerge >from some of the
discussions in the main jewishgen list.

....... tom klein, toronto

Robert Neu <roneu1@yahoo.com> wrote:


To my experience >from looking at countless Hungarian pre 1895 B,M,D
FHL Films as well as about 50,000 records for the 1848 census,
children having the same secular name as their parents is very
common.

Go on the AHD search the records for any town and look at the result.


mgs18 <mgs18@...>
 

Cohentalk@aol.com wrote on 9/6/04, 1:47 PM:

> Dear Members,
>
> Sometimes, parents chose names for their babies that were another form
> of their own names or so similar, that I wonder if they did this from
> lack of naming knowledge. Did the rabbis advise those parents,
> beforehand? I am referring to my g gm who's name was Roza and her
> daughter was named Racza and called Rotzi.
>
> Is there any connection between the female names Seva and Sheindel?
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Linda Cohen
> Michigan USA

Linda,

Roza and Racza are probably not forms of the same name, just two very
similar ones that can be confounding when trying to sort out who's who
on old docs (as with Rozi and Rezi).

That's why it is so important to figure out what people's Jewish ritual
names were-it's often the only way to tell who is who when the secular
names seem indistinguishable (or are mispelled).

If it helps, the women in my file named Racse or Rasche were Ruchel or
Reizel in Jewish.

An "Americaner" example: My Jewish ritual name is <MALKA> but my secular
name is <MINDY> which in American culture is often assumed to be
diminutive for Melinda and in Jewish culture is thought to be Mindel. My
American born mother could easily have the Jewish ritual name <Milka>
(if interested see Numbers 26:33) and the secular name <Mandy>. A
confusing but entirely possible scenario (that would not require the
advice of a Rabbi).

My GGgrandmother was Sheva spelled either Seva or Cseva on the 1869
census. She was Evelina in Hungarian. Descendants named after her are
either Sheva, Batsheva or Elisheva. And to illustrate the "no
correlation" rule, some of the corresponding secular names (Hungarian
and American) were/are Ilonka, Erszebet, Charlotte, Stacey and even
Marcy Susan (ShevaMindel).

Sheindel is a different Jewish name than Sheva. I think it means pretty
in yiddish. My tante was a Sheindel/Cecilia combo but there are several
others.

Mindy Soclof
Ann Arbor, Michigan


mgs18 <mgs18@...>
 

Actually, I also saw this on the 1848 but interestingly enough, by 1869, I
noticed it was much more unusual for parents and children to use the
same Hungarian given name.

Mindy Soclof
Ann Arbor, Mikchigan

Robert Neu wrote on 9/7/04, 2:14 AM:

To my experience >from looking at countless Hungarian pre 1895 B,M,D
> FHL Films as well as about 50,000 records for the 1848 census, children
> having the same secular name as their parents is very common.