Topics

How to get a book? #hungary


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 7/16/2005 11:26:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tom.vene@uol.com.br writes:

< I need a tip. My uncle, a Holocaust victim and a quite prominent lawyer,
wrote a book, published in 1938. I discovered a copy in a Slovak library and
tried to buy it but was turned down by the chief librarian.

< Any ideas about how I could convince her to sell it to me. To the library
the book is just an old tractate dusting on their shelves, for me an invaluable
memorabilia. >


==A librarian is generally bound by rules, and rules for letting go of books
are generally tight. Typically, in the USA, a library takes stock of
no-longer-required books just once every few years--and the librarian would not
want to be bothered with packing, mailing, collecting payment and cashing checks.

==I recently googled for copies of one of my old books that I was intending
to update and republish--and retrieved a copy >from a small hotel in southern
Argentina that had posted a list of the English language boos it held in its
guest library. (I showed my appreciation by mailing back a carton of books I
had finished reading. You might want to send the librarian a box of excessed
books in good condition and likely to be of interest in that city, just as a
gesture of friendship, and without a condition. You never know; she may
have something to offer you, anyway.

==google your uncle's name--you may come up with additional important
information beyond other locations of the book.

Michael Bernet, New York,


Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:36:43 UTC, tom.vene@uol.com.br (Tom Venetianer)
opined:

Dear all,

I need a tip. My uncle, a Holocaust victim and a quite prominent lawyer, wrote a
book, published in 1938. I discovered a copy in a Slovak library and tried to
buy it but was turned down by the chief librarian.

Any ideas about how I could convince her to sell it to me. To the library the
book is just an old tractate dusting on their shelves, for me an invaluable
memorabilia.

Many thanks and regards
Tom
Libraries are full of old dusty tractates; that's what they do, and it's one
of the differences between libraries and bookstores. Libraries _acquire_
books, they don't sell them. It might be a better idea to ask her for the
addresses of dealers in old books. Or to buy a much more valuable book (that
they don't already have) and offer to swap.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


KSL <resume@...>
 

Tom,


It almost certainly is out of copyright by now (Author's lifetime plus 50
years).

If the library is interested in retaining the book for its contents and not
so much for the actual original physical object, then perhaps you could
persuade them to photocopy it, and have the copy bound, all at your expense
of course.

They could then retain the bound copy and allow you to purchase the
original, sentimentally valuable to you, original book.

Ken Lipworth
Sydney


"Tom Venetianer" <tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote

Dear all,

I need a tip. My uncle, a Holocaust victim and a quite prominent lawyer, wrote a
book, published in 1938.I discovered a copy in a Slovak library and tried to buy
it but was turned down by the chief librarian.

Any ideas about how I could convince her to sell it to me. To the library the
book is just an old tractate dusting on their shelves, for me an invaluable
memorabilia.

Many thanks and regards
Tom


Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"KSL" <resume@lipworth.com.au> wrote
Tom,
It almost certainly is out of copyright by now (Author's lifetime plus 50
years).

If the library is interested in retaining the book for its contents and
not
so much for the actual original physical object, then perhaps you could
persuade them to photocopy it, and have the copy bound, all at your
expense
of course.

They could then retain the bound copy and allow you to purchase the
original, sentimentally valuable to you, original book.

Ken Lipworth
Sydney


"Tom Venetianer" <tom.vene@uol.com.br> wrote
Dear all,

I need a tip. My uncle, a Holocaust victim and a quite prominent lawyer,wrote a
book, published in 1938.I discovered a copy in a Slovak library and tried
to buy it but was turned down by the chief librarian.

Any ideas about how I could convince her to sell it to me. To the library the
book is just an old tractate dusting on their shelves, for me an
invaluable memorabilia.

Many thanks and regards
Tom
I think that it is more likely to work the other way round. After all the
original document is a historical artefact and libraries buy books as much
as for their historical significance in terms of what the actual copy says
about a book and the times in which the book was produced.

I doubt that the library would be interested in keeping a photocopy of a
book. After all, I don't go into a Library to see photocopies of a book.

It may be that there are other relatives who would also like to see this
book. They can look at it, albeit with some difficulty, in the Library in
Slovakia - they can't with respect see it in Tom's study.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


KSL <resume@...>
 

"Nick" <tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
I think that it is more likely to work the other way round. After all the
original document is a historical artefact and libraries buy books as much
as for their historical significance in terms of what the actual copy says
about a book and the times in which the book was produced.
Unless it is a great illuminated text or something of similar nature, there
is probably close to nothing to be learnt about the times in which the book
was produced that can be learnt form seeing the original. Millions of books
were being mass produced at the time, and I doubt that the book in question
differs in any significant way >from all the other the mass produced books
produced in 1938.

For all we know, this particular book has been rebound, may be missing some
pages, etc.

I doubt that the library would be interested in keeping a photocopy of a
book. After all, I don't go into a Library to see photocopies of a book.
I would imagine that most people go into a library to see the *contents* of
a book. How many go in to see the weight and texture of the paper, the
method of binding, the embossing, the typeface used, etc? Sure, there are
certain books that one does go to libraries to see the physical document
(Columbus's diaries, the Gutenberg Bibles, etc.) but I doubt that Tom's
uncle's book is in that category.

It may be that there are other relatives who would also like to see this
book. They can look at it, albeit with some difficulty, in the Library in
Slovakia - they can't with respect see it in Tom's study.
Why can't they see it in Tom's study? I would hazard a bet that
*infinitely* more of Tom's relatives are going to enter his study than are
going to visit some library in Slovakia!

It would be interesting to know how many people have looked at the book in
the last 50 years. How many would look at it if it is Tom's study?

If there was a photocopied copy in the library, with a note that the
original is held by Tom (giving his contact details) then anyone wanting to
read the contents of the book can do so in the library and if they want to
see the original (for what reason, I can't imagine) they can go see it in
Tom's study.

Libraries constantly discard books, (Google 'library discard book' and see
the hits you get). It would be heartbreaking if at some time in the future
a librarian decides to cull this book >from their collection and it ends up
totally out of reach of nay of Tom's family! The book is probably a lot
more likely to be treasured by Tom and his family than by a Slovakian
library.

Ken Lipworth


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)
MODERATOR NOTE: This is straying away >from the original question and even further
away >from genealogy. Only emails answering Tom's original question will be posted.


Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"KSL" < resume@lipworth.com.au > wrote

Stan

Libraries *do* sell books. Culling is a common practice in almost every
library in the world.

A library is not a black-hole into which books get sucked never to emerge
again.

They are dynamic repositories, that buy sell and swop books on a regular
basis.

Of course, there are certain books and documents that a library will *never*
part with, but for a book of the type I understand Tom's uncle's book to be,
there is a good chance it will be culled some day.
This is the Retention and Disposal Policy of the State Library of New South
Wales, Australia.

http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/policies/pdf/retentiondisposalpolicy.pdf

According to this, the NSW Library permanently retains material that has
been accessioned to it.
The exceptions to this are: 1 Missing items, 2 Faulty or damaged items, 3
Items not in a suitable condition for lending, 4 Items in poor and
deteriorating condition, 5 Items outside or marginal to the Library's
Development Policy, 7 Incomplete Multi-part Works, 8 Superceded Material, 9
Duplicates, 10 Items Accessioned in Error.

I suggest that you actually refer to the webpage before querying the above
which is just a summary.

I might add that as a recent UK Freedom of Information Officer, that every
public organisation all of which are bound by the FoI Act should have a
Retention and Disposal Schedule. They cannot arbitrarily get rid of any
document but must have a Schedule governing the disposal of documents. If a
request is made for a document, they must know whether they still have the
document and ideally be able to show that there is some Policy for releasing
or disposing of any document.


--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


crochetnyc5@netzero.net <crochetnyc5@...>
 

I suggest you contact whomever is in charge of the library and see what his/her
response is. A librarian is an employee who may not have the authorization to
make a sale.

Norma Yaskoir


KSL <resume@...>
 

Stan

Libraries *do* sell books. Culling is a common practice in almost every
library in the world.

A library is not a black-hole into which books get sucked never to emerge
again.

They are dynamic repositories, that buy sell and swop books on a regular
basis.

Of course, there are certain books and documents that a library will *never*
part with, but for a book of the type I understand Tom's uncle's book to be,
there is a good chance it will be culled some day.

Ken Lipworth
Sydney


"Stan Goodman" < SPAM_FOILER@hashkedim.com > wrote in message
news:uViCr8LlbtmJ-pn2-IrJuzNdsS9TH@poblano...


Libraries are full of old dusty tractates; that's what they do, and it's
one of the differences between libraries and bookstores. Libraries _acquire_
books, they don't sell them. It might be a better idea to ask her for the
addresses of dealers in old books. Or to buy a much more valuable book (that
they don't already have) and offer to swap.


Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"KSL" < resume@lipworth.com.au > wrote:

"Nick" < tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk > wrote
I think that it is more likely to work the other way round. After all the
original document is a historical artefact and libraries buy books as much
as for their historical significance in terms of what the actual copy says
about a book and the times in which the book was produced.
Unless it is a great illuminated text or something of similar nature, there
is probably close to nothing to be learnt about the times in which the book
was produced that can be learnt form seeing the original. Millions of books
were being mass produced at the time, and I doubt that the book in question
differs in any significant way >from all the other the mass produced books
produced in 1938.

For all we know, this particular book has been rebound, may be missing some
pages, etc.
Libraries exist for the benefit of everyone, which they can do through such
institutions as Inter-Library Loan.

A comparison is with great works of art which are purchased privately and
which are either displayed in someone's drawing room or even in storage.

There might be other relatives unknown to Tom who might wish to have access
to this book. Once Tom has the book in his private possession the only
people who would be able to see the book are those that Tom chooses to see
the book.

If this is really the only copy of the book, how much more important that
the original should be stored in a reputable library where we can all look
at it.

Books are stored in these great libraries not just for now, but for the
future. It would also seem that as far as Jews are concerned 1938 in
Slovakia was, unfortunately, the end of the era. We complain that the Jewish
presence has been obliterated in Central Europe. I think that we should be
celebrating in this case that there is enough interest to retain the book -
rather than saying what do they want the book for.

Otherwise we would not have Archives, but we would scan the books and throw
the originals away.

The most interesting thing about books besides their content, even with new
books is their look and feel. After all, that is why many of us love going
into bookshops - or libraries.

I might add that it is normally the other way round, that members of the
public donate old books or documents to libraries or museums because they
can look after it probably.

If I may say so, your comment about "some library in Slovakia" sees the
centre of world as Australia or the US - it would presumably be easier to
look at it there than in Tom's house.

I have lost my own copy of a book that I wrote. Not that many copies were
printed, but all British books are to be found in the British Library. I
wouldn't dream of asking the BL for the original copy (which is obviously
very important to me) and suggesting that they keep a photocopy.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland) ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near
Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Greetings,

First at all, let me thank in public to the many (and I mean *many* indeed) who
were kind to reply to my previous letter, offering great tips and guidance as to
how I should proceed to obtain the book. It was an invaluable help and my
gratitude can not be expressed in words. You are a fantastic group of people and
I own you all much.

Surprisingly, my question raised a quite contentious discussion among some, who
wrote pros and cons about my intention of buying the book >from the Slovak library
which holds the *seemingly* sole copy.

It wasn't my intention to create such a "turbulence". Interestingly, it placed me
in a kind of "Sophia's choice". The question became "was it fair - or even ethical
- to buy the book and take it away >from the general public's access?"

Allow me to say that the answer isn't as straightforward as some suggested. I
practically lost all my family in the Shoah, including this my uncle who wrote
the book. Without exaggeration, I became a "family orphan" and grew up without
the company of those many who were murdered by the Nazi madness.

This is one of the main reason for having spent almost 10 years researching my
family's background. All I have left is a detailed family tree and a number of
documents related to my ancestry, which I collected along those years. I also
collect whatever objects that belonged to my lost family, mainly books and
letters I could/can obtain. It seems to me that in this manner I'm preserving
their blessed memories. Tom's choice isn't simple!

Once again my deepest thanks to all who responded,
with friendly regards
Tom
--

Tom Venetianer < mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br >
Sao Paulo - Brazil


B. Frederics <picturethisfilm@...>
 

Hi Tom,

A while back I asked the National Szechenyi Library in Budapest to make a
xerox copy of a book my 2nd gr-grandfather wrote but which was unavailable
anywhere. They did it for a very reasonable fee, if I remember correctly it was about $35US. If the Slovak library won't do it, contact the =
National
Szechenyi Library at inform@oszk.hu . Perhaps they have a copy of the book.

Good luck.

Regards,
Bonnie Frederics
Tucson, AZ
picturethisfilm@email.com
----------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Venetianer" <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 7:41 AM
Subject: [h-sig] How to get a book?


Dear all,

I need a tip. My uncle, a Holocaust victim and a quite prominent =3D
lawyer,
wrote a book, published in 1938. I discovered a copy in a Slovak library =
=3D
and tried to buy it but was turned down by the chief librarian.

Any ideas about how I could convince her to sell it to me. To the =3D
library
the book is just an old tractate dusting on their shelves, for me an
invaluable memorabilia.

Many thanks and regards
Tom
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil