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Contextual understanding of ozvegy and elvalt #hungary
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tom
i don't think you can generalize >from those examples, but it may be possible to find the record of their previous marriage, particularly for the divorcees.
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i'm just guessing, but it seems that the women are listed with their full maiden name (POLLAK Johanna, WERTHEIMER Roza, SEILER Netti, etc.), which would be proper, plus their married name, as a notation. just out of curiosity, did any other widows or divorcees have surnames ending in "-NE"? ....... tom klein, toronto "Larry Kohn" <larry@...> wrote: |
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Sandor Bacskai <eretzhagar@...>
Dear Larry Kohn,
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If you see the first case (Kraus-Pollak marriage, VM11834, entry number 5), you can see David Pollak as a witness. I guess he was same to David, the father of Johanna. So the first name was maiden surname. I am sure the registrar was consistent... Sincerely, Sandor Bacskai Budapest, Hungary On 2008. May. 12, at 8:04, H-SIG digest wrote:
Subject: Contextual understanding of ozvegy and elvalt |
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Larry Kohn <larry@...>
I am transcribing Budapest marriage records for the All Hungarian Database.
The records are for the year 1879 and in some cases I am uncertain about how to interpret the meaning of what is written for a bride who, prior to this marriage, had either been widowed or divorced. Specifically, is her maiden name given first, followed by ozvegy/elvalt and then followed by her previous husband's surname, or is the meaning just the reverse? Here are some examples: (For size considerations I only included the register headings in the first image) POLLAK Johanna elv EICHENBAUM (viewmate image VM11834, entry number 5) http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=11834 MAHLER ozvegy WERTHEIMER Roza (viewmate image VM11835, entry number 10 ) http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=11835 RAUCH elv SEILER Netti (viewmate image VM11836, entry number 40) http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=11836 WEISZ ozv LIPPE Terez (viewmate image VM11837, entry number 65) http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=11837 Thanks in advance, Larry Kohn Reston, Virginia * Researching: KOHN in Tolcsva and New York/Bronx GRUN in Tolcsva, Presov and Dukla SILBERMAN and LICHTMAN in Tolcsva WEISZ in Tolcsva and Miskolc KLEIN in Tolcsva and Sarospatak BERGER and SCHWARTZ in Satoraljaujhely CHIZICK in Kovel ZUKER in Ustilug |
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Larry Kohn <larry@...>
Tom,
I could almost agree with your answer except that the two entries of the divorced women have different formats, so I still have some doubt. In Sandor Bacskai's response, he suggests that it is always the first surname that is the maiden name. (See his posting for his reasoning.) I also received an offline response >from another person saying that the maiden name is in fact the second surname. I am getting the idea that there may not be a general answer to this question. In answer to your question, in the set of 250 or so records I am transcribing, there were no cases I can recall where the woman's name ended in -NE. There were, however, several easy-to-interpret entries, such as "GALANDE szul VOGEL Katalin" where VOGEL is obviously the maiden name. I hope someone else will weigh in on this subject. Regards and thanks, Larry Kohn -------------------------------------------------- From: "tom" <tomk@...> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:55 AM To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@...> Subject: Re:[h-sig] Contextual understanding of ozvegy and elvalt i don't think you can generalize >from those examples, but it may be |
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Ilan Kozma <kozmai@...>
I have been doing transcription of Marriage records of 1881. The records
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which I transcribed were clearer: One record for example is: Ozv Gansl szul Grunwald Katalin. In here it is clear that the word Ozv accompanies the married name, and Grunwald is the maiden name. Ilan Kozma Tel Aviv Larry Kohn wrote: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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