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GINSBURG of St. Petersburg #general


Doccwd <doccwd@...>
 

My g-grandfather Rabbi David GINSBURG 1867-1920 was born in the shtetl
Vidzy [present day Belarus]. He was the son of ? [LEVINSON] and Yitzak Isaac
GINSBURG, who was rabbi of the Businessman's Synagogue in St. Petersburg around
the turn-of-the century. I recently received info. >from Russian City
Directories between 1894- 1899 for St. Petersburg including:
1. GINZBURG, Izka Yankiel, SGNNAIA Prospect, 4-1, [no occupation listed]
[1897]
2. GINZBURG, Aizik Monov., Sndovaia 74-11, occupation Bread Baker [1898]
3. GINSBURG, Izka Ianka, Gorohpraia 39 [1898]
4. GINZBURG, Abraham Aizik, V.O., 7, 13, occupation Small Merchant [1899]
5. GINZBURG, Izka Iank., Iantanka, 100, [no occupation listed] [1899]
Hope this will helps someone.
Craig Davidson


tunkelr@...
 

I am afraid this is road to nowhere.
You have a hundred years old addresses which, as I can see, should be
corrected:

1. I do not know what is SGNNAIA mean - please to check spelling for
mistake.
(maybe SENNAJA square?).
2. SADOVAJA (garden) street, house 74, apt.11
3. GOROCHOVAJA (pea) street, house 39, apt.?
4. VASILIEVSKII OSTROV (vasiliev's island) , Linija (line) #7, House 13,
apt.? Or "linija" (line) is missed.
5. This is the same man as (3). Address: FONTANKA, house 100, apt.?

Possible no apt. number because houses were small and landlord knew all
tenants.

Roman Tunkel
tunkelr@...
Hartford, CT, USA

Searching for TUNKEL / TOONKEL and TERUCHKIN (appr. 1850-1880) NEMERZEL'
(appr. 1880-1920) ERENBURG (appr.1890-1930) VOLKOV (appr. 1900-1920)
RABKIN (appr. 1900-1930) FRID (appr. 1910-1940)

...Craig Davidson wrote:
1. GINZBURG, Izka Yankiel, SGNNAIA Prospect, 4-1, [no occupation listed]
[1897]
2. GINZBURG, Aizik Monov., Sndovaia 74-11, occupation Bread Baker [1898]
3. GINSBURG, Izka Ianka, Gorohpraia 39 [1898]
4. GINZBURG, Abraham Aizik, V.O., 7, 13, occupation Small Merchant [1899]
5. GINZBURG, Izka Iank., Iantanka, 100, [no occupation listed] [1899]


MBernet@...
 

GUENZBURG is a soundalike of Ginsburg. Could be the same family.

Baron Josef Guenzburg of St Petersburg, and his son Baron Horace, were bankers
and industrialists in St. Petersburg, philanthropists, scholars and leaders of
the Jewish community in Russia during much of the 19th century.

In case you wondred, the baronetcy came not >from the Czar but >from the Duke of
Hesse-Darmstadt.

Michael Bernet, New York

BERNET, BERNAERTH, etc, JONDORF: Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg
FRENSDORFF/FRENZDORF:Frensdorf, Hamburg, Hanover
BAMBERGER: ancestors of the Wurzburger Rov, Bamberg villages
WOLFF, Aron: Pfungstadt/Fkfrt, Babette GOLDSCHMIDT: Homburg/Fkfrt;
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth
WOLFF, Sali: b Fkfrt ca 1860, d Rot'dam or victim of Dr. Petiot,Paris) 1942


tunkelr@...
 

Michael,
Because you try to search Russian History you should know that in Russian
language was no difference between GINZBURG and GINSBURG or GUENZBURG and
it was only one last name: "ruH36ypr" (russ).
However it was two different kind of Ginzburg - German and Jewish.
Beside that, this last name was very popular among Jewish community, so
please do not expect be related just because of same last name.

Roman Tunkel
tunkelr@...
Hartford, CT, USA

Searching for TUNKEL / TOONKEL / TYHKE/\b (russ) and
TERUCHKIN (appr. 1850-1880), NEMERZEL' (appr. 1880-1920), ERENBURG
(appr.1890-1930), VOLKOV (appr. 1900-1920), RABKIN (appr. 1900-1930),
FRID (appr. 1910-1940)

Michael Bernet writes:
GUENZBURG is a soundalike of Ginsburg. Could be the same family. Baron
Josef Guenzburg of St Petersburg, and his son Baron Horace, were bankers
and industrialists in St. Petersburg, philanthropists, scholars and
leaders of the Jewish community in Russia during much of the 19th
century. In case you wondred, the baronetcy came not >from the Czar but
from the Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt.


MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 99-03-16 12:01:07 EST, tunkelr@... writes:

<< Because you try to search Russian History you should know that in Russian
language was no difference between GINZBURG and GINSBURG or GUENZBURG and it
was only one last name: "ruH36ypr" (russ). However it was two different kind
of Ginzburg - German and Jewish. Beside that, this last name was very popular
among Jewish community, so please do not expect be related just because of
same last name. >>

==this appears to be based on a misunderstanding of my posting

1. I do not research Russian history--I know almost nothing about it aside
from the October Revolution that took place in November 1917 <g>
2. Obviously there are various ways of rendering the name Ginsburg in the
Latin alphabet corresponding to just one spelling in the Cyrillic alphabet
3. I'm not sure what is meant by "different kind of Ginzburg - German and
Jewish"
4. To the best of my knowledge I have no ancestors who came >from Russia (my
wives have all had Russian ancestry, but they can do their own research), nor
am I related to any Ginsburg however it's spelled. (The closest is the
husband of one of my aunts who came >from Gunsenhausen, in Bavaria--but his
name was Seeberger)

==I mentioned, because it might be helpful to Jewishgeners, the family of the
well-known banker and philanthropist >from St Petersburg known as Baron
Guenzburg. He was >from St. Petersburg, he was thoroughly involved in the life
of the St. Petersburg Jewish community, he was not German. He acquired the
baronetcy (for whatever it was worth) >from the Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt,
presumably for some banking favor; he was not German and he most definitely
was not a Russian noble.

I hope that clears it up. Any relations to Baron G. out there in Jewishgen
land?

Michael Bernet


val.ginzburg@...
 

Did you do your DNA y-chromosome?
There are many Ginzburg but only some of them are related. It would be interesting to see if we share a relationship. I found out that I belong to the same ancestor as De Gunzburg family.
Val Ginzburg


Alan Ehrlich
 

To elaborate upon Roman Tunkel’s important information, the two “kinds” of Günzburg (Cyrillic: Гинзбург, Гинцбург, Yiddish: גינצבורג, גינזבורג, Ginzburg, Gintsburg) in Russia both were Jewish.

 

In the first case, they were the descendants of one German Jewish family, some of whose members had migrated to Russia by the 1600s... and in the second case, they were from unrelated Jewish families in Russia who early in the emancipation period, when the Jews were ordered by the government to adopt family names, seemingly chose the name Günzburg because it was respected and/or sounded pleasing to them.

 

Indeed, apparently according to David Maggid, "Toledot Mishpechoth Gintzburg," Pg. 239, St. Petersburg, 1899, there even was a lawsuit instituted by Baer Günzburg of Grodno against a Jewish family of that city who had adopted the same name under the decree of 1804. The court sustained the right of Jewish families to adopt any name they chose, and the number of Günzburg families accordingly was said to have increased.

 

Usually cited as the progenitor of this family is Simon Günzburg zur Gemse, about whom the Jewish Encyclopedia, 1906 wrote:

 

“German scholar; communal worker; born at Günzburg, Bavaria, 1506; died at Burgau Jan. 9, 1585. He was the first who adopted and transmitted to his descendants the name "Günzburg" as a family name. He was a rich merchant, and traveled around in Germany and Poland in the interests of his business. He was also a great Talmudist, and had some knowledge of secular sciences. It is probably owing to these facts that Simon Günzburg is variously described by different historians. Albertrandy, quoted by Sternberg ("Gesch. der Juden in Polen," p. 148), says: "Simon, also called Selig Günzburg, was known as a celebrated architect and geometer. He wrote many works, and was the head of the rabbinate and yeshibah." It seems that Albertrandy confused Simon Günzburg with the physician Selig Günzburg of Slutsk. Czacki cites him as the court physician of King Sigismund August and chief of the community of Posen (Grätz, "Gesch." ix. 448). But Simon Günzburg never settled at Posen. His residence was first at Günzburg, where, he built a synagogue and established a cemetery; and then he settled at Burgau, a neighboring town. There also he worked for the welfare of the community, for which reason his name is commemorated in a special prayer.”

 

According to sources I believe to be reliable, his ancestors are documented to be:

 

1 Meir Zurich d. 1345

 

2 Baruch ben Meir Zurich b. 1319 d. 1382

   m. Guetlin - Kalonoymos b. 1328 d. 1417

   [daughter of Smoe (Samuel) ben Baruch and Name Unknown]

 

3 Lemlin ben Baruch b. 1355 Burgau (D) d. 1410

   m. Zuerlin Unknown b. 1360 d. 1436

    [daughter of Baruch ben Meir Zurich and Guetlin - Kalonoymos]

 

4 Falk ben Lemlin b. 1390 Augsburg, Bavaria (D) d. 1465 Ulm, Baden-Württemberg (D)

   m. Name Unknown

 

5 Schmuel (Samuel) ben Falk b. 1418 Augsburg (D) d. 1478

   m. Name Unknown

 

6 Jechiel ben Schmuel Porto b. 1445 d. 1505

   m. Frimes bat Aharon ben Schmuel

 

7 Elieser Ullmo - Günzburg b. 1477 (P) d. 1544

   m. Simche Unknown

 

8 Simon \ Schimon \ "Seligman" Ulmo - Günzburg b. 1506 Günsburg, Bayern (D) d. 9 Jan 1585 Burgau,  
    Schwaben Bavaria, (D)

    m. Hannele / Händel bat R. Isaak Linz m. ABT 1550 d. 1 Nov 1593

    [daughter of Rabbi Isaak Linz ben Eljakim - Linz and Tserlin Unknown]

 

This indicates the family ‘originated’ in what now is Switzerland; and subsequent migrations ultimately brought some of its descendants from the city of Ulm on the Bavarian border to the town of Günzburg in Bavaria. It’s for this reason, Simon Günzburg and several of his immediate descendants, sometimes called themselves "Ulma-Günzburg".

Alan Ehrlich
Geneva, Switzerland


Alan Ehrlich
 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 09:23 AM, Alan Ehrlich wrote:
David Maggid, "Toledot Mishpechoth Gintzburg," Pg. 239, St. Petersburg, 1899
Correction (previously showed line for a like-named cousin of his):

1.  Meir Zurich, d. 1345.

 

2.  Baruch ben Meir Zurich, b. 1319, d. 1382.  He married Guetlin - Kalonoymos, b. 1328 (daughter of Smoe (Samuel) ben Baruch and Name Unknown), d. 1417.

 

3.  Lemlin ben Baruch, b. 1355 in Burgau (D), d. 1410.  He married Zuerlin Unknown, b. 1360 (daughter of Baruch ben Meir Zurich and Guetlin - Kalonoymos), d. 1436.

 

4.  Falk ben Lemlin, b. 1390 in Augsburg, Bavaria (D), d. 1465 in Ulm, Baden-Württemberg (D).  He married Name Unknown.

 

5.  Schmuel (Samuel) ben Falk, b. 1418 in Augsburg (D), d. 1478.  He married Name Unknown.

 

6.  Jechiel ben Schmuel Porto, also known as Jechiel aus Oporto, also known as Jechiel ben Schmuel, b. 1445, d. 1505.  He married Frimes bat Aharon ben Schmuel.

 

7.  Elieser Ullmo - Günzburg, also known as Rabbi Abraham Günzburg, also known as Eliezer Avraham Ulmo, b. 1477 in (P), d. 1544.  He married Simche Unknown.

 

8.  Simon / Schimon / "Seligman" Ulmo - Günzburg, nickname Der reichen Schimon Günzburg zu Burgau, also known as Shimon ben Elieser Ulmo Guenzburg, also known as Simon Elieser Ulm aus Günzburg, b. 1506 in Günsburg, Bayern (D), b. 1505, resided FIRST in Günsburg, Bayern (D), resided LATER in Burgau, Schwaben Bavaria, (D), occupation "Reicher Kaufmann" [= rich merchant], occupation Talmudist, occupation Built synagog and created cemetary in Gunsbürg, Bayern (D), occupation Rabbiner und Haupt der angesehenen Jischiwa in Burgau (D), occupation Kaiserlicher Hoffaktor in der Österreischen Marktgrafschaft, occupation Parnass, d. 9 Jan 1585 in Burgau, Schwaben Bavaria, (D), d. 1584 OR 1585 OR 1586 depending on the source.  He married Hannele / Händel bat R. Isaak Linz (daughter of Rabbi Isaak Linz ben Eljakim - Linz and Tserlin Unknown), d. 1 Nov 1593, d. 1594, d. 6 Cheswan 1593.

 


David Ellis
 

I recently learned that Rabbi Yitzchak Ayzik GINSBURG (1780-1839) was my 6th-generation direct ancestor.  By correlating revision lists for 1813, 1795 and 1784, I identified his father Eliyahu Elyash and grandfather, also named Yitzchak Ayzyk.  All three lived in Vilnius, and I estimate the elder Yitzchak Ayzyk was born around 1730, give or take.

The Maggid book gives passing mention of these people but seems unable to make up its mind who the father of the elder Yitzchak Ayzyk was.  The family tree that folds out on page 150 lists his father as Yehuda Idel but goes no further and doesn't connect my branch to the main tree.  The errata on page 307 says that attribution is mistaken and should be Shimon HaKadosh (the martyr).  There is a problem with this correction:  Shimon HaKadosh lived about a century too early to possibly be the correct father and my 9th-generation ancestor.  

My newly discovered ancestors are mentioned only in passing, on pages 82 and 83 (mostly in three footnotes, of which the third spans the two pages).  This textual reference doesn't resolve the question of who my 9th-generation ancestor was or how my branch connects to the main GINSBURG tree that goes back centuries.

In an attempt to corroborate one account or the other, I searched the 1765 revision list from Vilnius by hand, since there is no translation from the original Polish.  It lists one family headed by Icko with son Eliasz, and the ages are consistent with my family tree.  Unfortunately, Icko's patronymic Hirszowicz doesn't agree with either scenario in Maggid's book.  I think this is my family, but I'm not certain based on this record alone.

I welcome suggestions as to how to proceed with my research into the GINSBURG branch of my family.  Please feel free to contact me directly by e-mail.

------
David Ellis
Natick, MA
djemkitso@...


kevinossey@...
 

Mordechai Stein my wife's GGGgrandfather from Shavel in Lithuania married Yacha Ginzburg, apparently Baron Horace Ginzburg's sister. Anyone have data on the family of Baron Ginzburg?

Kevin Ossey


Alan Ehrlich
 

I received a direct email inquiry asking whether Meir Zurich d.1345 (mentioned below) was from the Swiss city of Zurich.

Since others might also be wondering, I reproduce my reply herewith:

I have not found many details about Meir Zurich’s Life. However, in general, ‘in olden times’ where ever we see a Jew referred to by a place name, it was because he/his predecessors previously had lived there.

 

In fact, clearly, this was either a ‘Beiname’ ‘Übername’ or ‘Mitname’ (which ever you prefer: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beiname copy/paste into www.deepl.com for a translation) to allow other people in their surroundings to distinguish between them and like-named persons... or else a sort of living ‘curriculum vitae’ to render evident who, what and where from the particular person or their family had come.

 

I have a large number of such early family names in my tree, and you may too: e.g., Öttingen, Ries, Wiener, Günzburg, Spanier... and the list goes on for many pages. In every single case, this was the location where the person or family previously had lived, but subsequently were living outside of. Therefore, I feel confident that Meir Zurich originally lived in Zürich.

 

You may enjoy reading the source where, many years ago, I initially learned about Meir Zurich and some of his descendants: http://obermayer.us/Avotaynu%20article%20reprint.rlm.pdf

 

Friendly regards,

Alan